Somthing Interesting... Options

[sonshineonme]

My comment is a general one:

Women who are in abusive relaltionships typically believe their husbands, trust them, and really do not understand what is going on.

I can well understand how Linda simply did not know.

Nicely and completely said. You did that in a couple sentences, while I took too many!

This post has been edited by sonshineonme: Sep 16 2006, 10:20 AM

[PeacefulBe]

"Be carefull where you step; your pants are getting very heavy with something, and you may step in it!"
....ewwww.....this is disgusting.

Were you speaking to me? If so, please expand on what in the world you are basing your metaphor on.

Nicely and completely said. You did that in a couple sentences, while I took too many!

I understand about women in abusive relationships and how reality is sometimes just not apparent to them because of their survival mechanisms. It's just that, not knowing Linda personally, only who I thought I knew by watching 3abn, the post by Sister gave me pause as to what I really knew. I wasn't watching in late 2003, early 2004 when this divorce situation unfolded.

This post has been edited by PeacefullyBewildered: Sep 16 2006, 07:53 PM

[Fran]

Were you speaking to me? If so, please expand on what in the world you are basing your metaphor on.

"P" "B";

I am afraid Lee was quoting a post I made to "F" "H" "B" about WHO paid for HIS (Danny's) house, once and WHO paid 1/2 time again.

How much the over-runs were?

Why wasn't labor paid?

Why was the house referred to HIS house?

What/Where was Linda at that time?

Was she already being prepared for the pasture?

Since my comment was about the house financing, I was speaking of money filling his big pockets and it would soon fall out and all he could do is step in it.

I am so glad you are "P"eacefully "B"ewildered today.

Lee; I apologize again. This post is to clarify the situation to "P" "B".

My original post was to "F" "H" "B"

[Lee]

Whew Fran! Now I understand what you meant...

[Brother Sam]

Maybe the close friends of Danny (in the church) should have the skeletons come out of their closets along with his...

Doug, Mark, Ken, John, Mollie, Walt, Bill, etc. have protected Danny, seemingly blindly, without any use of common sense or opening their minds to the evidence in front of them and other facts upon which they have refused to ponder...rather to insist in their lies until they think and talk them so long they become "truth" to them...and no longer are able to have an open mind or heart to the true facts as they come out and are in total contradiction to what they have been spreading...

What skeletons of theirs are they afraid Danny will expose if they should decide to do the right thing and confess their errors and previous words in support of him and now realize how wrong it truly was to do so...are they in so deep, they cannot get out for fear of their own secrets being exposed?

Maybe it is time for everything to come out, be exposed and for them to join Danny in their punishment and be "cast out"...

[fallible humanbe...]

Maybe the close friends of Danny (in the church) should have the skeletons come out of their closets along with his...

Doug, Mark, Ken, John, Mollie, Walt, Bill, etc. have protected Danny, seemingly blindly, without any use of common sense or opening their minds to the evidence in front of them and other facts upon which they have refused to ponder...rather to insist in their lies until they think and talk them so long they become "truth" to them...and no longer are able to have an open mind or heart to the true facts as they come out and are in total contradiction to what they have been spreading...

What skeletons of theirs are they afraid Danny will expose if they should decide to do the right thing and confess their errors and previous words in support of him and now realize how wrong it truly was to do so...are they in so deep, they cannot get out for fear of their own secrets being exposed?

Maybe it is time for everything to come out, be exposed and for them to join Danny in their punishment and be "cast out"...

And your skeletons? When shall those become public foder for public perusal? Or mine, or Clay's, or Calvin's, or Watchbird's, or Sister's? At what point will your appetite be sated?

[justme]

Justice / Mercy / "Sheletons"(Skelton skeletons).

Which are we most interested in?

For nearly all our oives we have been taught to reason from cause to effect. We learn that action produces reaction. For every force there is an equal and opposite force. We are taught that 'whatever a man sows he will reap. East of here they call it "Karma". etc, etc.

In one rspect we seemt o like to see these axiomx actually come true. "Ah Haaaa! He got HIS"! "Serves 'im right." 'I told you sooooo!"


On the other hand we believe that we are forgiven only to the extent that we do forgive, Uh Ohhh.

And No one likes to see a woman misused and abused and verbally destroyed. Well, mostly no one does.

But mostly we hate to see someone in a position of power abuse that power. Ezpceially if it is in a ministry-type environment.

And "HO!-BOY!" don't follow up the abuse with an arrogant cover-up, by using the same enrtusted power given you by the "supporters".

SO, now we ahave an opportunity to see how we are inside after having gone through this metamorphosis of emotion and resasoning.
What have we learned about oueselves"
What have we learned abput our church"
What have we learned about human nature and power and money"
What have we learned about God?


Have some substituted personal study abd devotion by using 3ABN to be our "PASSIVE CHRISTIAN COMPANION?"

Will "JUSTICE" be vindicated in our eyes?
Do we want Justice or do we want Reformation? or both??

Our answers will be the basis upon what we delcare we want our own judgement to be based.
By the same rule of jusgement you use to judge other you too will be judged."

I have been told by individuals that having gone through the court systems, going to prison, etc, was the best thing that ever happened to the. That's where they learned to face themselves, and even to learn about the true God of love and forgiveness and restoration. Are we willing to tell God He can go that far, if necessary, from His perspective, to save us for Heaven???

The news that is coming shouuld give pause for each of us to see how far we are willing to let God work in our own lives.

The Saga of 3ABN can be a "stumbling block" or it can be a "step stool" to a higher experience.

[Brother Sam]

I too have skeletons in my closet...but I am not trying to destroy innocent people by using "powerful" people to do my dirty work.

Maybe if you had been there and under the dictates of the ungodly leader, you would have seen the lives destroyed by his tactics...with the help of these "friends"...

Yes, I would like to see justice done or at least a true public repentance to all affected, full restitution and a change in their life style/actions.

[simplysaved]

Politics over principle is always hurtful... but there are politics on both sides of this scenario. JMHO

I too have skeletons in my closet...but I am not trying to destroy innocent people by using "powerful" people to do my dirty work.

Maybe if you had been there and under the dictates of the ungodly leader, you would have seen the lives destroyed by his tactics...with the help of these "friends"...

Yes, I would like to see justice done or at least a true public repentance to all affected, full restitution and a change in their life style/actions.

[watchbird]

Justice / Mercy / "Sheletons"(Skelton skeletons).

Which are we most interested in?

Justice against the evildoers...... and in favor of the victims......

Mercy for those who repent...... and for those who have been sinned against.....

As for "Sheletons" ... or any other "skeletons" ......

I really don't care about skeletons at all...... As I put it once upon a time ....


Skeletons don't bother me!

I know just where each one is hung.....
And......
Sometimes take
A morbid satisfaction
Out of checking through old closets
Just so see
How each one fares,
(and if it needs the dust and cobwebs cleaned away)

But......
Finding one
Alive, and
Well, and
Living......... where
I thought he hung......

That bothers me.
........ ca 1971

Skeletons are nothing but bones. They harm no one, though some may feel a bit squeamish in their presence, or even guilty over what they were when alive.

Therefore, skeletons are of little or no interest to me.

What I AM interested in, however, is the live and squirming and suffering victims that are hung in some dank and heavily barricaded dungeon .... and the instruments of torture that are held in "off limits" secure areas, out of sight of other, future, unsuspecting victims.

And it is THESE kinds of things that the victims and refugees and hostages and just plain observers have been trying to bring to the light of day here on the pages of BSDA.

Those who have merely skeletons in their closets need have no fear of any who post here.

For nearly all our oives we have been taught to reason from cause to effect. We learn that action produces reaction. For every force there is an equal and opposite force. We are taught that 'whatever a man sows he will reap. East of here they call it "Karma". etc, etc.

Agreed with your first statements .... disagreed that it is the same as what is called "Karma" in the East.

In one rspect we seemt o like to see these axiomx actually come true. "Ah Haaaa! He got HIS"! "Serves 'im right." 'I told you sooooo!"

I like the way Barclay comments on our attitudes in his little devotional commentaries..... speaking of love, he explains that Love is not merely a warm fuzzy feeling toward everyone..... including evildoes..... for that would be the very antithesis of love towards those who are oppressed or treated unjustly. True love includes an equal and opposite pole of firm abhorrence, hatred even, of all that is evil. Scripture is replete with examples of rejoicing over the destruction of one's enemies.... I am not sure how or why we have dveloped a "guilt complex" such that we even feel bad about feeling good when evil is driven back in some specific area.

On the other hand we believe that we are forgiven only to the extent that we do forgive, Uh Ohhh.

No we don't! At least we should not. To say this is to misunderstand both the process of forgiveness and who is entitled (and required) to forgive whom. I highly recommend the books by Lewis B. Smedes on forgiveness for anyone who is not clear on issues regarding forgiveness.

And No one likes to see a woman misused and abused and verbally destroyed. Well, mostly no one does.

And if someone does, then it means that they are secretly abusers at heart.

But mostly we hate to see someone in a position of power abuse that power. Ezpceially if it is in a ministry-type environment.

And "HO!-BOY!" don't follow up the abuse with an arrogant cover-up, by using the same enrtusted power given you by the "supporters".

Exactly.

SO, now we ahave an opportunity to see how we are inside after having gone through this metamorphosis of emotion and resasoning.
What have we learned about oueselves"
What have we learned abput our church"
What have we learned about human nature and power and money"
What have we learned about God?
Have some substituted personal study and devotion by using 3ABN to be our "PASSIVE CHRISTIAN COMPANION?"

Will "JUSTICE" be vindicated in our eyes?
Do we want Justice or do we want Reformation? or both??

Both...... Reformation where possible...... Justice for all.

Our answers will be the basis upon what we delcare we want our own judgement to be based.
By the same rule of jusgement you use to judge other you too will be judged."

I have been told by individuals that having gone through the court systems, going to prison, etc, was the best thing that ever happened to the. That's where they learned to face themselves, and even to learn about the true God of love and forgiveness and restoration. Are we willing to tell God He can go that far, if necessary, from His perspective, to save us for Heaven???

While it is true that there are some people who will never "look up" intil they are so far down that this is the "only way to look", it is also true that some will even then "curse God and die" rather than to admit their wrong, make restitution, and truly and humbly follow God.

But ......

I show you a "better way"..... for it is not necessary for anyone to take this hard route to God..... the easier and better way is staying sensitive to God's leading from the moment we are first aware of his leading. It is not God's will that we go through the hard times to learn that his way is best.

The news that is coming shouuld give pause for each of us to see how far we are willing to let God work in our own lives.

The Saga of 3ABN can be a "stumbling block" or it can be a "step stool" to a higher experience.

Ah yes, but..... as "it is written":

"But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

"Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh! " .... Matthew 18:6-7 KJV

This post has been edited by watchbird: Sep 23 2006, 08:51 AM

[beartrap]

"Betrayals of trust, especially in the midst of power differentials and by people in whom sacred authority has been vested, are especially grievous sins that call for clear accountability and expectations of true repentance"
L. Gregory Jones, dean of Duke University Divinity School

[justme]

"beartrap", "watchbird", "simplysaved", "brothersam":
Thank you for your comments. I can see we are very, very close in our thinking. I really appreciate your posts.

In regards to the "forgiveness" thing, I was remembering being taught to forgive this was because of the "Lord's prayer" reference to forgiveness. .."forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who have trespassed against us..".

Help me with understanding the "Karma" thing. I was made to understand that it's like reaping what we have sown; or even, "what goes around comes around" type thing.

Restitution!?! Absolutely, I agree. Biblically we have seen the instruction to restore SEVEN-FOLD what has been taken illegally. No wouldn't THAT go over big at 3ABN.

What if 3ABN supporters who have been supporting it for years, and have receipts were to start a "class action" law suit against 3ABN to recover misused funding. Misrepresentation of funds gathered for projects that never materialized?!?!i.e. "The Sanctuary Project", and to "refund seven times the amoubt of each receipt or cancelled check"??!!

WOW!

from what I understand about t=some of the activities reported to us here, there may be a need for some "time out" in "lockup".

As far as what 3ABN has done to Linda's last two years and to her "ministry", how do they expect to "UN-RING THAT BELL"?

..

[PeacefulBe]

"Betrayals of trust, especially in the midst of power differentials and by people in whom sacred authority has been vested, are especially grievous sins that call for clear accountability and expectations of true repentance"
L. Gregory Jones, dean of Duke University Divinity School

Beartrap, I have heard that there are about 150 employees/volunteers at 3abn. As an employee of 3abn do you have an idea of how many of these folks are aware of the situation there and feel trapped or bewildered by all of it. How many are in the dark?

What I AM interested in, however, is the live and squirming and suffering victims that are hung in some dank and heavily barricaded dungeon .... and the instruments of torture that are held in "off limits" secure areas, out of sight of other, future, unsuspecting victims.

Watchbird, I am assuming that you are speaking of the employees. Wouldn't it be like turning a blind eye not to warn them of the situation, thereby becoming accomplices? The mother who knows that her husband/boyfriend is molesting/abusing her children but lets it continue is complicit, no matter what her motivation is.

Won't the employees, once they become victims and find out others knew but did nothing to warn them, feel twice betrayed? I know I would.

This post has been edited by PeacefullyBewildered: Sep 23 2006, 10:54 AM

[TLC]

[quote name='PeacefullyBewildered' date='Sep 23 2006, 10:53 AM' post='153152']
Beartrap, I have heard that there are about 150 employees/volunteers at 3abn. As an employee of 3abn do you have an idea of how many of these folks are aware of the situation there and feel trapped or bewildered by all of it. How many are in the dark?


Beartrap is not a 3ABN employee.

[PeacefulBe]

TLC, he isn't? I thought he was.