Somthing Interesting... Options

[PeacefulBe]

Why is it so hard for people to read the IL vs. 3ABN Property Tax Lawsuit? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

http://www.revenue.state.il.us/legalinform...s/pt/pt04-1.pdf

It clearly states that Linda had nothing to do with the finances of 3ABN! Please read the results. Suggestions that Linda had anything to do with Finances at 3ABN would have to stop.
SNIP
Follow the money! If Danny's pockets get too heavy, his pants may just fall off and expose the truth about the heavy, deep pockets.

Fran, I copied this from Sister's post of April 17, 2006 at 3:27am

Quote:
A number of years ago a cousin of Danny was running a retirement home in Michigan. He and Danny were not just related, but close friends. He left a very good job and returned to southern Illinois to help in the ministry. He was a good man and wanted to serve God. Well, as time went on he started seeing things that were just not right, so he approached Danny. On one of these occasions he brought up the issue of Danny buying horses using donations made to 3ABN. He told Danny that it just wasn't right, people had sent in their hard earned offerings to support the work of spreading the gospel and Danny was using it to buy something for his own pleasure. Linda's response to all this was that anything Danny said was right, even if he were wrong, we are like gods here. To make a long story short, the cousin/friend was fired---who needs an angel sitting on your shoulder pricking your conscience, it just gets in the way of following the little man on the other shoulder---and Danny continued buying horses and in the future, land to run them on... with ministry money.

This was the source of my post. I have read a lot of the court papers as well.

i would like to have been a "fly on the wall" when Linda said that. Context and voice tone and inflection mean as much or more than just the actual words.

Likely Linda meant that Danny could have horses if HE paid for the, Sure, why not. Maybe those horses would keep him from the other "horsing around".

Personal possessions of those who want to be in a ministry should be allowed as long as they are not paid for directly by the ministry, but from the earnings of the employee.

SNIP

Sister didn't mention in her post that Linda was being sarcastic, only that she probably regreted those words when they came back to bite her.

I'm certainly not trying to build a case against Linda, btw.

[sonshineonme]

Fran, I copied this from Sister's post of April 17, 2006 at 3:27am

Quote:
A number of years ago a cousin of Danny was running a retirement home in Michigan. He and Danny were not just related, but close friends. He left a very good job and returned to southern Illinois to help in the ministry. He was a good man and wanted to serve God. Well, as time went on he started seeing things that were just not right, so he approached Danny. On one of these occasions he brought up the issue of Danny buying horses using donations made to 3ABN. He told Danny that it just wasn't right, people had sent in their hard earned offerings to support the work of spreading the gospel and Danny was using it to buy something for his own pleasure. Linda's response to all this was that anything Danny said was right, even if he were wrong, we are like gods here. To make a long story short, the cousin/friend was fired---who needs an angel sitting on your shoulder pricking your conscience, it just gets in the way of following the little man on the other shoulder---and Danny continued buying horses and in the future, land to run them on... with ministry money.

This was the source of my post. I have read a lot of the court papers as well.
Sister didn't mention in her post that Linda was being sarcastic, only that she probably regreted those words when they came back to bite her.

I'm certainly not trying to build a case against Linda, btw.

If that is not what you are doing, then be most careful. If you know Linda and Danny, you would have the picture in your mind when Sister tells this particular story - read what Sister tells, and also what Fran says, and those of us who know Linda, you would understand Linda had no control over much of anything when it came to money, (which is what Danny liked) and Linda knew Danny quite well when it came to him wanting something. I'm sure he carried this ora that he deserved it and should have it. She has told me over and over (and I have already mentioned this elsewhere) that Danny is the MOST PERSISTENT man on the planet if he wants something - you can NOT make him stop, quit, give up, etc. Good traits when used correctly of course. Awful when used selfishly. You have to understand the dynamics of this relationship and personality types - Linda is soft spoken, ready to take the back seat to keep peace, trusting and was often TOLD how things would be, in spite of her confronting things head on, it was always left with how Danny wanted it. I'm sure there were times, when it was insignificant to Danny, if Linda wanted something done, or saw a good idea, she was able to discuss it. Danny is head strong, stubborn and not trusting. When Danny has his mind made up about something he wants, it happens, even when it's wrong, looks bad, etc. Linda was completely in the dark to how Danny really did the money changing - as she has told me they each had our paycheck, you put that together, and that was plenty for them to live on. If she ever wondered about this or that, I'm sure in her mind their money paid for it. I have talked to her about this a few times, and basically, it comes down to very simple thinking for her - understand, it was her honestly (she just told what she knew) about things at the court case about their status, that had Danny quite upset at her. She didn't play his game, didn't know his game, and apparently was blowing his game. She is making many discoveries as are the rest of us in all this mess. No doubt she knew some things would come around and hit Danny in the head....one more thing, she has told me "we had to be very careful and make sure we did everything right " spoken like a child who assumed everyone wanted to do the same thing.

[Tori]

Hi,
I'm new to this--bulletin boards in general and this one in particular. I started reading these posts about 3 weeks ago when Adventist Today posted the Dr's letter on their site. Not sure I'm in the right place, even. But I understand there are people who will figure that part out for me.

I've never seen 3ABN. We don't get it in our area. I first heard about it several (3 or so) years ago when my mother who had been out of the Adventist church for 20 or so years started talking about it and then was rebaptized. Some of the things she talked about seemed very conservative and a little wacked, but I was happy she was back in with a group of peers she could relate to.

So, I don't have an emotional connection to Danny or Linda and come to this conversation with my own outside opinions.

I have been frustrated by the conversation because much of it has centered on whether Danny or Linda committed adultery. Typical for Adventists, I think, to get stuck on this topic. But it seems to me that there is so much there. I hate to get into hierarchy of sins, but if Linda was in an abusive relationship (and everything I've read about her leads me to think that she was) then she is definitely the victim here and I think the gist of most of the info posted here should be speaking more to that than to the accusations that she may have had an affair. The damage that an abused woman suffers in that closest of all relationships, the damage that her children suffer pales in comparison to there having been an affair. And I think we get into this mind-set (of focusing on the affair and grounds for divorce over abuse) because the Bible speaks to divorce and infidelity. It doesn't speak to abusive relationships. Probably because marriage realtionships were very different in biblical culture than they are in our culture. But just because the Bible doesn't speak to abusive relationships doesn't mean that we as Christians in our culture shouldn't take the lead in condemning them. In this area, the world is way out ahead of us.

AND, if you're trying to bring down the TV Evangelist, why not focus more on the money and mismanagement of the money? Maybe this has been done earlier. Admittedly, I haven't read everything offered here. But it really should be kept at the front of these talks. My mother is a very poor woman, but she pays her tithe. Don't know where she pays it to, (most likely to 3ABN) but I'm furious that our church wise men would allow another situation of misuse of donations to the Lord's work. Will they ever learn? Who will hold them responsible? Blinded by the camera lights.

[justme]

All too true. One thing about Linda's charm is that she is "childlike", not childish. She has that wonderful childlike quality that just crawls into your heart. You just want to protect her, you want to preserve that "vulnerability" that makes you know you CAN trust her.
Apparently Dannys saw that and misunderstood her simplicity. He thought she would always be a "shadow" for him.
When she became someone in her own right and started her own programs, he feared loss of control of her. Her programs were the most popular of all. Especially rhe "Porch Visits" and "Fluffy". Still the most-missed part of the programs she ever did. Then there was Barb Kerr and LINDA, what a hoot. Charming, delightful!

Her remark about being "as gods around here" was a sarcastic reference to how Danny sees himself. She is too kind to simply say "HE". Maybe she was including Mollie and Hal in that "we" reference.

[justme]

Hi,
I'm new to this--bulletin boards in general and this one in particular. I started reading these posts about 3 weeks ago when Adventist Today posted the Dr's letter on their site. Not sure I'm in the right place, even. But I understand there are people who will figure that part out for me.

I've never seen 3ABN. We don't get it in our area. I first heard about it several (3 or so) years ago when my mother who had been out of the Adventist church for 20 or so years started talking about it and then was rebaptized. Some of the things she talked about seemed very conservative and a little wacked, but I was happy she was back in with a group of peers she could relate to.

So, I don't have an emotional connection to Danny or Linda and come to this conversation with my own outside opinions.

I have been frustrated by the conversation because much of it has centered on whether Danny or Linda committed adultery. Typical for Adventists, I think, to get stuck on this topic. But it seems to me that there is so much there. I hate to get into hierarchy of sins, but if Linda was in an abusive relationship (and everything I've read about her leads me to think that she was) then she is definitely the victim here and I think the gist of most of the info posted here should be speaking more to that than to the accusations that she may have had an affair. The damage that an abused woman suffers in that closest of all relationships, the damage that her children suffer pales in comparison to there having been an affair. And I think we get into this mind-set (of focusing on the affair and grounds for divorce over abuse) because the Bible speaks to divorce and infidelity. It doesn't speak to abusive relationships. Probably because marriage realtionships were very different in biblical culture than they are in our culture. But just because the Bible doesn't speak to abusive relationships doesn't mean that we as Christians in our culture shouldn't take the lead in condemning them. In this area, the world is way out ahead of us.

AND, if you're trying to bring down the TV Evangelist, why not focus more on the money and mismanagement of the money? Maybe this has been done earlier. Admittedly, I haven't read everything offered here. But it really should be kept at the front of these talks. My mother is a very poor woman, but she pays her tithe. Don't know where she pays it to, (most likely to 3ABN) but I'm furious that our church wise men would allow another situation of misuse of donations to the Lord's work. Will they ever learn? Who will hold them responsible? Blinded by the camera lights.

Tori,
Welcome to our discussions.
You will find that we do include all form of abuse when we speak of marital misconduct.

Case in point, from the Bible, it says thai a man is to love his wife as Christ loves the Church (His Bride) and (He) gave himself for her (the Bride/Church). Abuse happens when a man fails to fulfill that commission from God. Anything less than that IS ABUSE. It IS a violation of the marriage contract. Just as important in providing physical need is the needs of the spirit and of the heart.

Thank you for reminding us of this point.

3ABN has been described as "The most conservative place on the planet!", by someone who works there, no less,

[sonshineonme]

Hi,
I'm new to this--bulletin boards in general and this one in particular. I started reading these posts about 3 weeks ago when Adventist Today posted the Dr's letter on their site. Not sure I'm in the right place, even. But I understand there are people who will figure that part out for me.

I've never seen 3ABN. We don't get it in our area. I first heard about it several (3 or so) years ago when my mother who had been out of the Adventist church for 20 or so years started talking about it and then was rebaptized. Some of the things she talked about seemed very conservative and a little wacked, but I was happy she was back in with a group of peers she could relate to.

So, I don't have an emotional connection to Danny or Linda and come to this conversation with my own outside opinions.

I have been frustrated by the conversation because much of it has centered on whether Danny or Linda committed adultery. Typical for Adventists, I think, to get stuck on this topic. But it seems to me that there is so much there. I hate to get into hierarchy of sins, but if Linda was in an abusive relationship (and everything I've read about her leads me to think that she was) then she is definitely the victim here and I think the gist of most of the info posted here should be speaking more to that than to the accusations that she may have had an affair. The damage that an abused woman suffers in that closest of all relationships, the damage that her children suffer pales in comparison to there having been an affair. And I think we get into this mind-set (of focusing on the affair and grounds for divorce over abuse) because the Bible speaks to divorce and infidelity. It doesn't speak to abusive relationships. Probably because marriage realtionships were very different in biblical culture than they are in our culture. But just because the Bible doesn't speak to abusive relationships doesn't mean that we as Christians in our culture shouldn't take the lead in condemning them. In this area, the world is way out ahead of us.

AND, if you're trying to bring down the TV Evangelist, why not focus more on the money and mismanagement of the money? Maybe this has been done earlier. Admittedly, I haven't read everything offered here. But it really should be kept at the front of these talks. My mother is a very poor woman, but she pays her tithe. Don't know where she pays it to, (most likely to 3ABN) but I'm furious that our church wise men would allow another situation of misuse of donations to the Lord's work. Will they ever learn? Who will hold them responsible? Blinded by the camera lights.

Welcome to BSDA Tori! You are very perceptive in the reading you have done - but keep reading! There are many threads, and most of what you mentioned that attention should be on has been referenced to in many areas - I think if you get all caught up (lots to read, I know!) you will see these things have been addressed, continue to be addressed and are simply facts in the whole mess that make the mess a mess! Got that??

Before you feel like no one is doing anything, that includes our "leaders", keep in mind there is much that is not seen. Like any situation, much is going on that no one talks about - people are in place in several places doing their part. We bring what we can here, discuss it as much as we can, sometimes off the subject and on to things that are insignificant in nature, but none the less, this site has been a wonderful place to gather much information to give a snapshot (aka tip of the iceberg) of what has been and is going on in the 3abn organization and the Shelton family.

Take courage - God's hand is working, he cares about each person, such as your mother, who has placed trust in 3abn to be doing what it said it has been doing, but what people will need to learn in this mess is that no one asked the important questions - they trusted and assumed the rest. That was a mistake and what has allowed the Shelton family to get away with so much. What people SEE on tv is what they perceive as the whole thing - filling in the blanks with "must be's" and "I'm sures" and "of course" to any doubts or red flags. All we can do it get educated, educate people to be more inquisitive about where they send their money, and hold people accountable for their actions. We have that right. We have a right to investigate any organization we support or may support. All we can do it do the best we can do. But we have to do something - not just go along with the ivory-tower thinking, that we have this utopia that has no problems and all is right in the world. What's worse is when people don't own up to their actions - such as Danny, who at this point has no intention of being wrong about anything. Pride goes before a fall....like I have said before, I hope to see a sincere white flag at some point. One can always hope.

I have seen this whole thing as an opportunity for each one of us to learn at least one thing. I hope we won't waste it on just Danny, but search for what we can learn, and I hope that our leaders are doing the same thing. God is still in charge - He wants us all to grow closer to Him one way or another, and He wastes no event, circumstance or life examples to teach us more of the ugliness of sin and the NEED FOR HIM in our lives. JMO. What doesn't make us more cynical, will make us stronger. I believe that because I have seen it in my own life since being a part of this mess. Pray for us all.

[husbandoftheyear]

Come on, is it really that hard to figure out. The line of conversation was about Danny, his income, what he did with it, where his money comes from, etc. Complaints about how donor funds were used. Danny gets a salary - correct? Of course. He used some of it to build his house. So of course the logic extends, HOTY who claims to still be employed at 3ABN is getting paid from the donors as well. Does he own a house or a car - if so were they purchased with donor money? Of course, without the donors he doesn't have a salary.

This post is to WB, but to toss this in, HOTY - admin at 3ABN . . . if only you knew how laugable that was and how far down the wrong path you are.

- fhb

Yes - I am paid for a service to the ministry and donor money is set aside to pay me for that service. With that money, I pay for my home, cars, cloths, etc., etc. There is a big difference between having a salary and using if for the necessities and having a salary and letting the ministry pay for everything you want.

There are what - 150-175 employees at 3ABN and maybe 10-15 that are cashing in.
And because I am still there - I am bundled in with people who are using money for their own purposes. My home is paid for by me out of my salary. I do my own lawn care. 3ABN Maintenance staff does not take care of it for me. My wife cleans the house. 3ABN Housecleaning services does not do this for me. Is there a difference - absolutely! (And as far as I know - Dan didn't put one cent from his salary into his home. Can anyone verify that?)

To FHB - So you aren't 3ABN administration - maybe you should be - I hear they're taking applications!

[Fran]

Fran Asked FHB:

Please be more specific about " He used some of it to build HIS house."

Just HOW MUCH of HIS SALARY was spent on HIS house? Be careful here.

Linda and Danny were CO-founders. Why was the house HIS house? WHO paid for it? I would challenge ANYONE at 3ABN to produce a TRUE COST OF THAT HOUSE. $138,000 was approved, but how about all those OVER-RUNS. All the 3ABN VOLUNTEERS didn't get paid for their labor. Regular employees received their regular Salary. That $138,000 did not ilclude Labor! Where on the books can you find the EXPENSES for this HOUSE? They are EVERYWHERE like the leaves of Autumn! Buried so deep and so thin they can probably NEVER see the light of day again. Be sure you check set design, other building costs. Like I said. JUST WHO WAS IT THAT PAID FOR LINDA & DANNY'S HOUSE? What was that you said? DONORS?

You know the answer! Get yourself some backbone and tell the truth! Or, you can always ignore the question as before. Be carefull where you step; your pants are getting very heavy with something, and you may step in it!

It is clearly apparent what you are doing. I just hit a point of disgust at all your accusations about Linda and other workers at 3ABN. You keep slipping up and saying things that tell on you. I for one am reading every word you say.

Don't you just wish that Lawsuit would go away? It is far too late. It is everywhere. Are you ready now for all those heavy questions?

Where there is life there is HOPE.

[PeacefulBe]

If that is not what you are doing, then be most careful. If you know Linda and Danny, you would have the picture in your mind when Sister tells this particular story - read what Sister tells, and also what Fran says, and those of us who know Linda, you would understand Linda had no control over much of anything when it came to money, (which is what Danny liked) and Linda knew Danny quite well when it came to him wanting something. I'm sure he carried this ora that he deserved it and should have it. She has told me over and over (and I have already mentioned this elsewhere) that Danny is the MOST PERSISTENT man on the planet if he wants something - you can NOT make him stop, quit, give up, etc. Good traits when used correctly of course. Awful when used selfishly. You have to understand the dynamics of this relationship and personality types - Linda is soft spoken, ready to take the back seat to keep peace, trusting and was often TOLD how things would be, in spite of her confronting things head on, it was always left with how Danny wanted it. I'm sure there were times, when it was insignificant to Danny, if Linda wanted something done, or saw a good idea, she was able to discuss it. Danny is head strong, stubborn and not trusting. When Danny has his mind made up about something he wants, it happens, even when it's wrong, looks bad, etc. Linda was completely in the dark to how Danny really did the money changing - as she has told me they each had our paycheck, you put that together, and that was plenty for them to live on. If she ever wondered about this or that, I'm sure in her mind their money paid for it. I have talked to her about this a few times, and basically, it comes down to very simple thinking for her - understand, it was her honestly (she just told what she knew) about things at the court case about their status, that had Danny quite upset at her. She didn't play his game, didn't know his game, and apparently was blowing his game. She is making many discoveries as are the rest of us in all this mess. No doubt she knew some things would come around and hit Danny in the head....one more thing, she has told me "we had to be very careful and make sure we did everything right " spoken like a child who assumed everyone wanted to do the same thing.

Please go and read all of Sister's "We Be like God" post #7(I think) at

http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s...st&p=126703

or at least re-read the part that I put in my post. Linda's statement was in response to the relative/friend who was questioning Danny's use of donor money for personal pleasure. That doesn't sound like she was "completely in the dark about how Danny did the money changing".

Perhaps Sister will further illuminate us all on this subject.

The picture you painted of Linda was of an awfully naive person, not hardly the type of person with the moxie I feel she must have had to co-found and help run a huge, worldwide ministry for 20 years. I believe she was and is a much stronger person than you make her out to be. She would have to be in order to withstand the trauma of these last two years!

[Lee]

"Be carefull where you step; your pants are getting very heavy with something, and you may step in it!"


....ewwww.....this is disgusting.

[sonshineonme]

Please go and read all of Sister's "We Be like God" post #7(I think) at

http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s...st&p=126703

or at least re-read the part that I put in my post. Linda's statement was in response to the relative/friend who was questioning Danny's use of donor money for personal pleasure. That doesn't sound like she was "completely in the dark about how Danny did the money changing".

Perhaps Sister will further illuminate us all on this subject.

The picture you painted of Linda was of an awfully naive person, not hardly the type of person with the moxie I feel she must have had to co-found and help run a huge, worldwide ministry for 20 years. I believe she was and is a much stronger person than you make her out to be. She would have to be in order to withstand the trauma of these last two years!

You misunderstand my word of naive - it's with regard Danny's "way" of running a business. Even while there were employees earning less then livable wages, she would tell you "well, they had to at least had minimum wage, that's the law and we had to do that", she doesn't really know what people went through, how they were treated, that was not her area, and maybe people assumed she knew these things because she was Dan's wife, but she did not bother with things that were not her job. She also got most ALL her information from Danny on anything and everything that took place. I have asked her, how did you know this or that, how something happend or who said what? Were you there? Did you see it? Talk to them? Or did you get your information from Danny on what took place? Her answer is usually "Dan told me". Then I think she gets it now - she always has believed him. She loved him, she trusted him. She may not have agreed with some of his ethics (that she saw), but she still loved him and had a heart for the ministry as her main thing - and that is still her main thing!

I have read what sister wrote, several times, I understand what she is saying. I have talked to Linda about it a few times as well. I guess you have to know Linda to understand what I'm trying to explain.

You can know about your own money, and what your husband earns, you can see him spend, charge and have things, and you assume that you must be able to afford it. Even when you see the mininstries money spent on things you question, you can tell Danny, but Danny will not like it, will argue with you, and you will be wrong in your view of looking at it. Whether you are still right about what you see, your husband see's it one way, and that is the RIGHT WAY. She was explaining that she knew Dan well enough that when he wanted something, he got it. She did not know the degree of which he has gone. She has given me several examples of things she felt were not right, but it did no good to tell Danny. These were little things she saw, she had no idea how deep and wide this kind of thinking Danny had, has went. She is just now finding out these things.


Having moxie and being naive can go co-exist at the same time. You have a person who did start a minsitry, run a ministry (production) and work long hours everyday. She gets better and better at her job through the years. She works hard and has a mission. She also knows that Danny "works" differently then she does. She is very strong - she is a surviror and has realized that this is what she was doing, by God's grace, she said to me "it was good I was in the word all the time through these years in my job" (my slight paraphrase). I know she is stong, because God strengthened her for this time and continues to make her strong, but honestly if you knew her, and she would tell you, her parents worried about her, because she is very trusting, keeps things very simple in her mind, and lives on a different level then most people do - like a child. She has faith. It's what gives her the ability to love, even when being hurt.

This post has been edited by sonshineonme: Sep 15 2006, 11:41 PM

[Fran]

"Be carefull where you step; your pants are getting very heavy with something, and you may step in it!"
....ewwww.....this is disgusting.

Lee;

Reading it this way, it is disgusting.

I was referencing an earlier post I made about pants and pockets full of money! I am sure the other would never happen in public, I hope.

I apologize for leaving the word "money" out. I forget that people don't realize I think in terms of money and numbers.

I posted another post in another thread and someone replied to it and I am still trying to figure out what I said that was wrong. With me, it could take a lifetime. I just let that one go, but this one really got me laughing. This intent was not meant as this came out.

Sorry.
Fran

[Panama_Pete]

She also got most ALL her information from Danny on anything and everything that took place. I have asked her, how did you know this or that, how something happend or who said what? Were you there? Did you see it? Talk to them? Or did you get your information from Danny on what took place? Her answer is usually "Dan told me". Then I think she gets it now - she always has believed him. She loved him, she trusted him.

Linda also said that, on occasion, if she was standing in Dan's doorway to his office, and listened or waited while he talked to somebody else on the phone, she sometimes learned of things going on. To her, it was just a humorous, little annectdote, but when she told that story, she was aware that she was revealing she was often outside the loop when things were going on.

They say that in in the first week of President Lyndon Johnson's administration, they gave the Vice-President, Hubert Humphrey, a jackknife and told him to go whittle in the corner for the next four years.

But with Hubert, within just a few days, as the story goes, they realized they had to confiscate the jackknife.

[Panama_Pete]

Lee;

Reading it this way, it is disgusting.

I was referencing an earlier post I made about pants and pockets full of money! I am sure the other would never happen in public, I hope.

I apologize for leaving the word "money" out. I forget that people don't realize I think in terms of money and numbers.

Sorry.
Fran

It Depends® on how you interpret it.

[Observer]

My comment is a general one:

Women who are in abusive relaltionships typically believe their husbands, trust them, and really do not understand what is going on.

I can well understand how Linda simply did not know.