 An Ellen White Reality Check..., something long overdue... |
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 Sep 26 2006, 09:24 AM
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#46
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 1,000 + posts  Group: Members Posts: 2,015 Joined: 2-May 06 Member No.: 1,712 Gender: f  |
QUOTE(awesumtenor @ Sep 26 2006, 08:25 AM) [snapback]153715[/snapback] Actually, it only leaves Christ out of the picture if one is speaking of greater vs lesser in absolute, rather than relative terms... and we all know only a Sith deals in absolutes. The passage refers to the testimonies relative to the bible... and in that relative relationship the bible is indeed the greater light of the 2... In His service, Mr. J Absolutely!  btw ... what's a Sith. It sounds like a wonderfully useful word, but I'd sure like to know the context from which it came. QUOTE(awesumtenor @ Sep 26 2006, 09:00 AM) [snapback]153721[/snapback] Only if we're going back to the whole inferred/implied thing... dunno if it's just human nature... but folk seem to have an inherent need to interpret what they read and see something beyond what is on the page... Problem with that is it tends to miss the fact that sometimes a cigar is *just* a cigar... going back to the flashlight:spotlight:sun analogy... relative to the flashlight, the spotlight is a 'greater' light... relative to the sun, that same light is lesser to the point of insignificance...to view it as either greater or lesser it has to be juxtaposed against something else and comparison made and such comparison can be made accurately and without error as long that the relational basis of the comparison is kept in view... but perhaps that's another topic for another time... DISCLAIMER: The above was made while standing on my general observation soapbox... while your statement brought it to mind I was not replying specifically to you in saying the above... just felt I needed to throw it out there... As for arriving... umm... I was already there when you showed up  In His service, Mr. J Agreed with your general soapbox speech ... and.... As for arriving .... ummmmmm.... yes..... the statement with its context was already there and had been understood by most as saying just what we are saying it is saying .... a whale of a long time before Greenie showed up. Oh well ... maybe his name is more approriate than we realized.... 
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Sep 26 2006, 09:25 AM
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#47
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 5,000 + posts  Group: Charter Member Posts: 6,128 Joined: 20-July 03 Member No.: 15 Gender: m |
QUOTE(watchbird @ Sep 26 2006, 11:19 AM) [snapback]153726[/snapback] Absolutely! btw ... what's a Sith. It sounds like a wonderfully useful word, but I'd sure like to know the context from which it came. Star Wars, Episode III... Obi-Wan tells Anakin that "only a Sith deals in absolutes"... the Sith are the masters of the dark side of the force... In His service, Mr. J -------------------- There is no one more dangerous than one who thinks he knows God with a mind that is ignorant - Dr. Lewis Anthony
You’ve got to be real comfortable in your own skin to survive the animosity your strength evokes in people you'd hope would like you. - Dr. Renita Weems |
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Sep 26 2006, 12:01 PM
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#48
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1,000 + posts Group: Members Posts: 2,015 Joined: 2-May 06 Member No.: 1,712 Gender: f |
QUOTE(awesumtenor @ Sep 26 2006, 09:25 AM) [snapback]153729[/snapback] Star Wars, Episode III... Obi-Wan tells Anakin that "only a Sith deals in absolutes"... the Sith are the masters of the dark side of the force... In His service, Mr. J Hmmmm...... OK...... thanks. It does seem quite appropriate. I'll have to remember that. |
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Sep 26 2006, 06:05 PM
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#49
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 PrincessDrRe Group: Financial Donor Posts: 9,011 Joined: 8-November 04 Member No.: 712 Gender: f |
 Yall all above lil' ol' dumb me nah..... *le'sigh* -------------------- *"Some folks use their ignorance like a umbrella. It covers everything, they perodically take it out from time to time, but it never is too far away from them."*
PrincessDrRe; March, 2007 ~"Blood = Meat, Face = Meat, Internal "Organs" = Meat - you can try to make it cuter; but it's still meat...."~ PrincessDrRe; September, 2007 *(NOTE: Any advice given by Re' Silvey, MSW is not to be taken as medical/mental health advice. Although trained to be a counselor, currently employed as a therapist, and currently pursuing her PhD in Counseling Psychology (ABD/I) - she is not your assigned therapist. Please consult a mental health professional of your choice for a face-to-face consultation.)* |
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Sep 26 2006, 06:10 PM
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#50
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 1,000 + posts Group: Members Posts: 1,398 Joined: 10-April 06 From: The Hill Country Member No.: 1,679 Gender: f |
QUOTE(awesumtenor @ Sep 26 2006, 10:25 AM) [snapback]153729[/snapback] Star Wars, Episode III... Obi-Wan tells Anakin that "only a Sith deals in absolutes"... the Sith are the masters of the dark side of the force... In His service, Mr. J Oh great...now I'm related to a stripey red guy...sigh.   -------------------- Shelley
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." Mark Twain "It is not my first object in life to make people like me." Elizabeth Prentiss "Níor dhún Dia doras riamh nar oscail Sé ceann eile." |
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Sep 26 2006, 06:14 PM
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#51
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 5,000 + posts Group: Administrator Posts: 11,143 Joined: 21-July 03 From: Northern California Member No.: 47 Gender: f |
QUOTE(seeshell @ Sep 26 2006, 05:10 PM) [snapback]153812[/snapback] Oh great...now I'm related to a stripey red guy...sigh. -------------------- TTFN
Di And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose---Romans 8:28 A great many people believe they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices.-- William James It is better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt.- Mark Twain |
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Sep 26 2006, 06:19 PM
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#52
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PrincessDrRe Group: Financial Donor Posts: 9,011 Joined: 8-November 04 Member No.: 712 Gender: f |
QUOTE(seeshell @ Sep 26 2006, 08:10 PM) [snapback]153812[/snapback] Oh great...now I'm related to a stripey red guy...sigh. Better the red guy then the....um....black guy..... OOOOooo we are so   -------------------- *"Some folks use their ignorance like a umbrella. It covers everything, they perodically take it out from time to time, but it never is too far away from them."*
PrincessDrRe; March, 2007 ~"Blood = Meat, Face = Meat, Internal "Organs" = Meat - you can try to make it cuter; but it's still meat...."~ PrincessDrRe; September, 2007 *(NOTE: Any advice given by Re' Silvey, MSW is not to be taken as medical/mental health advice. Although trained to be a counselor, currently employed as a therapist, and currently pursuing her PhD in Counseling Psychology (ABD/I) - she is not your assigned therapist. Please consult a mental health professional of your choice for a face-to-face consultation.)* |
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Sep 26 2006, 07:33 PM
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#53
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 Heiress Josey Group: Charter Member Posts: 9,020 Joined: 20-July 03 From: DC Metro Member No.: 6 Gender: m |
QUOTE(simplysaved @ Sep 26 2006, 09:50 AM) [snapback]153705[/snapback]  Preach on, Preacha!!!!  -------------------- WELCOME to BlackSDA from seraph|m, a BSDA Charter member.
Please Join us in The Married Forum and/or Sabbath School Lesson Study forums. Then, come join us here, Live Chat Lesson Study ,for our Friday night study @ 8pm CST/9pm EST. The lesson can be found at Sabbath School Network (SSNET) Motto- "Weapons of Mass Distraction, Have No Place Here. " "Qui tacet consentire videtur," Are not official staff mottos and are not endorsed by BSDA Management. |
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Sep 26 2006, 07:44 PM
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#54
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5,000 + posts Group: Charter Member Posts: 6,128 Joined: 20-July 03 Member No.: 15 Gender: m |
QUOTE(seeshell @ Sep 26 2006, 08:10 PM) [snapback]153812[/snapback] Oh great...now I'm related to a stripey red guy...sigh. No one has been called a Sith... or anything else... in this thread; that considered, what are you talking about? In His service, Mr. J -------------------- There is no one more dangerous than one who thinks he knows God with a mind that is ignorant - Dr. Lewis Anthony
You’ve got to be real comfortable in your own skin to survive the animosity your strength evokes in people you'd hope would like you. - Dr. Renita Weems |
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Sep 27 2006, 03:56 AM
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#55
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 500 + posts  Group: Members Posts: 530 Joined: 14-January 05 Member No.: 820 Gender: m |
QUOTE(watchbird @ Sep 26 2006, 03:24 PM) [snapback]153726[/snapback] As for arriving .... ummmmmm.... yes..... the statement with its context was already there and had been understood by most as saying just what we are saying it is saying .... a whale of a long time before Greenie showed up. Oh well ... maybe his name is more approriate than we realized.... 
-------------------- "If we know Christ, we cannot be proud; if we know ourselves, we must be humble" Author Unknown
SOMETIMES YOU MUST LOSE TO WIN....CHRIST LOST OMNIPRESENCE TO WIN HUMANITY |
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Sep 27 2006, 07:39 AM
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#56
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 5,000 + posts Group: Members Posts: 10,513 Joined: 17-January 05 From: Nashville, Tennessee Member No.: 830 Gender: f |
 QUOTE(seraph|m @ Sep 26 2006, 08:33 PM) [snapback]153829[/snapback] Some to many Black SDA churches in major cities to not place her writing before the Bible...some do not even make regular inferences to EGW.... QUOTE(västergötland @ Sep 26 2006, 03:21 AM) [snapback]153689[/snapback] A few?  -------------------- "No weapon formed against YOU (Sarah--and every Believer/Servant of God) shall prosper and every tongue that rises against you in judgement you will condemn...."--Isaiah 54:17
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Sep 27 2006, 05:36 PM
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#57
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5,000 + posts Group: Charter Member Posts: 6,128 Joined: 20-July 03 Member No.: 15 Gender: m |
Ennyway... back on topic...
Dr. Patrick makes the following point in the introduction of his essay "Re-visioning the role of EGW for Seventh-day Adventists beyond 2000": QUOTE Christianity offers a saving knowledge of God through Jesus Christ (John 17:3; 1 John 5:20), taught of the Holy Spirit (John 14-16). Libraries of books can be consulted about the process of disclosure (revelation), its trustworthy communication (inspiration), and the help of the Spirit for those who seek to understand and apply the message (illumination).2 Christianity has witnessed creative and destructive battles over these doctrines, few more intense than those within the United States during the first three decades of the twentieth century as Fundamentalism3 and Modernism4 engaged each other. Seventh-day Adventists belong in neither camp.5 However, with a valid concern about Modernism and an ambiguity with reference to Ellen White, many Adventists aligned themselves with the Fundamentalists. Especially since 1970, when Ellen White studies entered a new phase, this lack of clarity has threatened the unity and mission of Adventism. Unrealistic concepts of inspiration caused many Adventists to adopt extreme positions6 with reference to Ellen White's ministry, including reversionist attitudes. The Adventist of Fundamentalist inclination, confronted with a massive amount of new information, tends to elevate an idealized past as normative for the present, requiring a strong continuity (even identity) with that past. Therefore, historical data may be seen as the cause of unnecessary problems; primary sources may appear to initiate doubt about the leading of God; probing questions may seem threatening, with even their asking categorized as evidence of lack of faith. Thus judgmental groups tend to form on the edges of the church and mount a guerrilla war, firing salvos at people and institutions. The polar opposite to reversion is a rejectionist stance, which declares the past is so unreliable in view of present knowledge or so irrelevant to present needs that separation from it is essential. Historical data may be grasped as a weapon with which to attack the church (as in the writings of Gregory Hunt and Wallace Slattery); primary sources may be used by the rejectionist in an attempt to discredit claims about God's leading. During the resultant confusion some people quietly slip out of the church because they perceive the church as dishonest, or congregations may divide when the advocacy of opposing ideas fragments relationships, or militant individuals may leave Adventism in anger and direct long-range missiles back at them body of Christ. Meanwhile, the church and its institutions experience turmoil. At a time when there is an enormous need to comprehensively support creationism, great effort may be expended to prop up a peripheral idea--the chronology of Archbishop James Ussher (1581-1656). When health and educational institutions need creative help to express Adventist values to patients and students, they may be threatened by well-meaning authors and administrators responding to negative reports which often turn out to be rumors. With unity under threat, bewildered leaders may grasp promising solutions offered in books like Omega and Receiving the Word, only to witness intensified conflict and a tarnishing of the church's credibility.7 Adventist ministers, historians, scientists, and religion teachers at times find hazardous the professions for which they prepared with great effort and outlay. Accountability is essential, as is a creative tension between academic freedom and academic responsibility. But to be effective, these professionals and their institutions also need accurate understanding from laity and leaders if the church is to proceed coherently with the fulfillment of its mission. This point begs the following question... how then does the church pilot it's way through this latter day Scylla and Charibdis without being dashed on the rocks of either the reversionist or rejectionist sides? How do we stay on that middle path and avoid either extreme? Can those extremes even be avoided at all? In His service, Mr. J -------------------- There is no one more dangerous than one who thinks he knows God with a mind that is ignorant - Dr. Lewis Anthony
You’ve got to be real comfortable in your own skin to survive the animosity your strength evokes in people you'd hope would like you. - Dr. Renita Weems |
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Sep 27 2006, 06:19 PM
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#58
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 5,000 + posts Group: Administrator Posts: 19,829 Joined: 20-July 03 From: Alabama Member No.: 4 Gender: m |
QUOTE(awesumtenor @ Sep 27 2006, 05:36 PM) [snapback]154065[/snapback] Ennyway... back on topic... Dr. Patrick makes the following point in the introduction of his essay "Re-visioning the role of EGW for Seventh-day Adventists beyond 2000": This point begs the following question... how then does the church pilot it's way through this latter day Scylla and Charibdis without being dashed on the rocks of either the reversionist or rejectionist sides? How do we stay on that middle path and avoid either extreme? Can those extremes even be avoided at all? In His service, Mr. J i don't know that it is possible.... as you have noted, there is a polarization taking place and each polar opposite ain't moving towards the center.... so both fight for the extremes... -------------------- "you are as sick as your secrets...." -quote from Celebrity Rehab-
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Sep 27 2006, 06:53 PM
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#59
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1,000 + posts Group: Members Posts: 2,015 Joined: 2-May 06 Member No.: 1,712 Gender: f |
QUOTE(awesumtenor @ Sep 27 2006, 05:36 PM) [snapback]154065[/snapback] Ennyway... back on topic... Dr. Patrick makes the following point in the introduction of his essay "Re-visioning the role of EGW for Seventh-day Adventists beyond 2000": This point begs the following question... how then does the church pilot it's way through this latter day Scylla and Charibdis without being dashed on the rocks of either the reversionist or rejectionist sides? How do we stay on that middle path and avoid either extreme? Can those extremes even be avoided at all? In His service, Mr. J Keep reading. The answer is in the other option.... "Re-visioning" the role. And there are a LOT of practical suggestions in the material, as well as a lot of reporting on how various individuals.... including scholars..... are going about it. Patrick was on the "bleeding edge" of Ellen White studies back in the early 80's.... and even got his hands slapped a few times. But he has outlasted his critics, and is being joined by many others ..... especially in his own country, but also in the United States and elsewhere. Will ALL join in the "re-visioning"? ..... of course not. But as more and more material is brought out which utilizes this thought framework there is more for the rest of us to focus upon. And here, as in life in general, "where you look is where you go". One can focus on criticizing either of the extremes..... and be drawn into one or the other "camp". Or one can focus on the new and help establish "re-visioning" as the view of choice for future generations. It's our individual choice. |
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Sep 27 2006, 09:13 PM
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#60
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PrincessDrRe Group: Financial Donor Posts: 9,011 Joined: 8-November 04 Member No.: 712 Gender: f |
QUOTE(simplysaved @ Sep 27 2006, 09:39 AM) [snapback]153899[/snapback] Some to many Black SDA churches in major cities to not place her writing before the Bible...some do not even make regular inferences to EGW.... More do take her over the Bible than don't - GC proved that in several sermons. -------------------- *"Some folks use their ignorance like a umbrella. It covers everything, they perodically take it out from time to time, but it never is too far away from them."*
PrincessDrRe; March, 2007 ~"Blood = Meat, Face = Meat, Internal "Organs" = Meat - you can try to make it cuter; but it's still meat...."~ PrincessDrRe; September, 2007 *(NOTE: Any advice given by Re' Silvey, MSW is not to be taken as medical/mental health advice. Although trained to be a counselor, currently employed as a therapist, and currently pursuing her PhD in Counseling Psychology (ABD/I) - she is not your assigned therapist. Please consult a mental health professional of your choice for a face-to-face consultation.)* |
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