3abn?, Left Out Options

[Chez]

3ABN has always been a supportive ministry--and it says so itself in their own newsletter. And they have stated it on the air. But that isn't why I believe it. I believe it because Doug Batchelor of Amazing Facts supports them as well as It is Written and other supportive ministries. It has been this way since they first started broadcasting.

A supportive ministry does not accept tithe. They encourage the tithe to be sent to the Conference. A ministry that does accept tithe is called an Independent ministry.

3ABN is a supportive ministry and always has been.

Watchbird, I'm not sure what you mean by "good try" --I'm not trying to do anything other than to say the truth. I have no other motive.

Lee,
3ABN is suppose to be a supportive ministry, but financially, I think that is an Independent Ministry. It does accept tithe. That's the problem. This is why giving in the local SDA conference(s) and church(es) has decreased because people are sending their tithes and a good portion of their offerings to 3ABN. I haven't heard Danny or any of his personnel tell people not to send their tithes to 3ABN. They talk about the financial needs of 3ABN, but I have never heard them tell people to give their tithes to their local church. I have never heard them encourage people to financially support their local church. They primarily ask for money. Therefore, it is not a supportive ministry, but an independent ministry comparable to TBN.

[Richard Sherwin]

I know people who do not trust the church and therefore send, quite openly, their tithes to Danny and 3abn.

Richard

[PeacefulBe]

I know people who do not trust the church and therefore send, quite openly, their tithes to Danny and 3abn.

Richard

Is "the church" they don't trust the SDA church? Why would they not trust it? Do they sit in the pews on Sabbath? Do they listen to the conference-paid pastor preach from the pulpit? Do they use the quarterly Sabbath School lessons? Since God gave each of us free choice I guess we can choose what "storehouse" to bring tithes to. It just strikes me as interesting that these folks you speak of would be more comfortable putting their trust in a man. I hope they truly know him.

Just my thoughts.

PB

[Johann]

3ABN has always been a supportive ministry--and it says so itself in their own newsletter. And they have stated it on the air. But that isn't why I believe it. I believe it because Doug Batchelor of Amazing Facts supports them as well as It is Written and other supportive ministries. It has been this way since they first started broadcasting.

A supportive ministry does not accept tithe. They encourage the tithe to be sent to the Conference. A ministry that does accept tithe is called an Independent ministry.

3ABN is a supportive ministry and always has been.

Watchbird, I'm not sure what you mean by "good try" --I'm not trying to do anything other than to say the truth. I have no other motive.

Good try, Lee, like Watchbird says. We'd like to trust that such a ministry is stating the truth. What about if what they say is a distortion of truth?

You state that It is Written is supporting 3ABN. You may still see It Is Written programs on 3ABN, but have you checked how old they are? Are they still providing 3ABN with their new productions, or do you have to watch HOPE to see the latest? To some it looks like 3ABN is filling in the gaps with old programs they have in stock.

[Panama_Pete]

Please document what you refer to as a "Joint Declaration."

There may be reason to believe that it is MUCH less than people claim it to have been.
Stay tuned to see how long some of those ministries continue to purchase air time from 3-ABN. What what happens as contracts laspe, and see if they are renewed.

Joint Declaration of Commitment

by the

General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists and Three Angels Broadcasting Network

The General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists and Three Angels Broadcasting Network are committed to faithfulness to God's Word and loyalty to Bible truth as formulated in the 27 Fundamental Beliefs of the Seventh-day Adventist Church. We believe that our common commitment to world evangelism through media compels us to seek ways to cooperate in the task of reaching the world for Christ. We believe that much more can be accomplished to hasten the Lord's return through cooperation in an atmosphere of mutual trust and confidence.

As leaders of Three Angels Broadcasting Network (3ABN), we commit ourselves to:

A. Offer our resources in accordance with 3ABN's operational policies to support the mission of, and work in cooperation with, the Seventh-day Adventist Church in the proclamation of the everlasting gospel to the entire world.

B. Proclaim the gospel in its purity and simplicity while being sensitive to the unique cultures of people in countries around the world.

C. Reiterate our endorsement of the concept of the Seventh-day Adventist Church organization as set forth in the book Seventh-day Adventists Believe, Chapters 11-13, and in the writings of Ellen G. White.

D. Recognize the local and regional constituent responsibility and leadership in administering activities and operations of the Church in their territory.

E. Restate our support for integrating new members into the body of Christ and, more specifically, encouraging membership in the Seventh-day Adventist Church around the world.

As administrators of the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists, (GC) we commit ourselves to:
A. Reaffirm the profound spiritual truth that God calls and empowers both individuals and supporting ministries who are committed to the mission of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, to join with the Church, its institutions and organizations in the proclamation of the gospel.

B. Establish such official communication and planning forums, including supporting ministries such as 3ABN, with world and divisions leaders as may be appropriate.

C. Encourage General Conference departments, world divisions, and Church institutions to utilize the services of 3ABN for production and distribution of programming as may be appropriate, with the understanding that the agreements between the applicable Seventh-day Adventist organizations and 3ABN, include-at a minimum-that the financial arrangements and copyright ownership be documented in writing.

D. Encourage Seventh-day Adventist Church organizations to submit programming for distribution on 3ABN with the recognition and understanding that 3ABN will review all programming.

E. Encourage the fostering of a spirit of unity and cooperation between all organizations of the Seventh-day Adventist Church and 3ABN.

Our Common Vision:
Includes strategic planning sessions, counseling on matters of common interest, praying, dreaming and planning together. We welcome the opportunity to join together in coordinating and executing the global mission of reaching every nation, kindred, tongue and people with the message of the saving grace of Christ and His soon coming in the context of the Great Controversy and the Three Angels' Messages of Revelation 14.

Issues Resolution:

We recognize that as Christians, even with the best of intentions, differences can arise. We agree to the following Issues Resolution Process in harmony with the counsel of Matthew 18 to keep the cooperative spirit between us healthy.

In the event of a disagreement between 3ABN and a duly authorized Executive Committee of a world Division of the Seventh-day Adventist Church regarding programming which the the Division Executive Committee believes is detrimental to the mission of the Church, then;

Step One: Representatives of both entities will communicate informally and, in a spirit of cooperation, attempt to resolve the issue.

Step Two: If the issue is not resolved informally, the parties can request the appointment of a mediator, jointly selected by the Chairman of the Board of 3ABN and a representative of the General Conference Administrative Committee (GCADCOM) on behalf of whatever entity of the Seventh-day Adventist Church is involved. The mediator will carefully examine and consider the matter and report the recommendations and conclusions to both the representative of the GCADCOM and the Chairman of the Board of 3ABN.

Step Three: Should the issue continue to be unresolved, then a Special Issues Resolution Committee (SIRC) will be established to examine, consider, and resolve the issue/s. 3ABN and the affected Church organizations will each select three individuals to serve as members of the SIRC. These six members, meeting with a temporary facilitator provided by GCADCOM, will jointly select a chairperson, a seventh member of the SIRC, who must be agreed to by the representatives of all three parties. The SIRC will act in a timely manner, and the Chairperson will provide written recomendations and conclusions for presentation to the governing boards of all affected parties. The expectation is that all governing boards will agree to abide by the recomendations and conclusions of the SIRC. In the unlikely event that 3ABN or the affected organization chooses not to abide by the recomendations and conclusions of the SIRC, the cooperative efforts of the parties as indicated in this Joint Declaration will terminate and all parties agree that no civil court has jurisdiction in these matters.

With eager anticipation of God's rich blessing on our renewed commitment to work together in our mutual efforts, we execute this Joint Declaration of Commitment this 4th day of November, 1997.


____________________________________

____________________________________

Walter Thompson, M.D.

Robert S. Folkenberg

Board Chairman, 3ABN President,

President, General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists

____________________________________

____________________________________

Danny Shelton

G. Ralph Thompson

President, 3ABN

Secretary, General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists

____________________________________

____________________________________

Linda Shelton

Robert L. Rawson

Vice-President, 3ABN

Treasurer, General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists

[tall73]

Thanks Pete.

Yes they do indeed take things marked Tithe and several of my members have demonstrated in their own giving. A few of them were willing to start giving to the conference when I spoke to them. Some were not. 3ABN was always willing to take their donations when clearly marked tithe.

Now as to them putting material on secular stations, yes they do. However, I haven't seen them submitting them to non-supportive independent ministries.

And as I said I have not heard of them revoking the joint declaration. Until the church does that they are giving them sanction. So they are still classed as supportive though they may not be supportive in every way.

Now hopefully they are currently using the dispute resolution clauses.

This post has been edited by tall73: Oct 28 2006, 03:28 PM

[Panama_Pete]

Joint Declaration of Commitment

Tall73,

You are correct about the Joint Declaration still being in force.

Page 7 of the current issue (November 2006) issue of 3ABN World magazine says:

"Since 1997, 3ABN has enjoyed
a formal working agreement
with the General Conference
of Seventh-day Adventists to
support each other in proclaiming
the gospel of Jesus Christ to
the whole world. Our network
is accepted as a supporting
ministry of the Seventh-day
Adventist Church."

The Joint Declaration posted earlier is still, apparently, in effect. 3ABN is proud of it.

Therefore, I think we should implore the General Conference Executive Committee to invoke Steps 1 through 3 of that Declaration .

This would be a outstanding opportunity for Dr. Walter Thompson, 3ABN Board Chair, to present all of 3ABN's "unquestionable" evidence. After all, 3ABN made the original charges with evidence that has never seen the light of day.

This would also address the issue whereby some say, "Let God handle it." The General Conference Executive Committee is the closest we mortals can come to that right now, I'm guessing.

So, while you're all writing to Dish Network to add 3ABN, per Danny's request, write a second letter to the GC Executive Committee. Be sure to mention 3ABN's and Dr. Thompson's "unquestionable" evidence that 3ABN claims to have.

Then, a mediator is appointed: There are professional organizations that specialize in independent, neutral mediation.

This post has been edited by Panama_Pete: Oct 28 2006, 03:37 PM

[watchbird]

Tall73,

You are correct about the Joint Declaration still being in force.

Page 7 of the current issue (November 2006) issue of 3ABN World magazine says:

"Since 1997, 3ABN has enjoyed
a formal working agreement
with the General Conference
of Seventh-day Adventists to
support each other in proclaiming
the gospel of Jesus Christ to
the whole world. Our network
is accepted as a supporting
ministry of the Seventh-day
Adventist Church." [/b]

The Joint Declaration posted earlier is still, apparently, in effect. 3ABN is proud of it.

Therefore, I think we should implore the General Conference Executive Committee to invoke Steps 1 through 3 of that Declaration .

This would be a outstanding opportunity for Dr. Walter Thompson, 3ABN Board Chair, to present all of 3ABN's "unquestionable" evidence. After all, 3ABN made the original charges with evidence that has never seen the light of day.

This would also address the issue whereby some say, "Let God handle it." The General Conference Executive Committee is the closest we mortals can come to that right now, I'm guessing.

So, while you're all writing to Dish Network to add 3ABN, per Danny's request, write a second letter to the GC Executive Committee. Be sure to mention 3ABN's and Dr. Thompson's "unquestionable" evidence that 3ABN claims to have.

Then, a mediator is appointed: There are professional organizations that specialize in independent, neutral mediation.

The whole thing looks like a farce to me. Why it was ever signed by the GC is more than I can figure out. What does 3abn promise to do? Nothing more than vague statements of "support", which amounts to nothing concrete at all. What does the GC promise to do? Promote them to every Division and church entitiy.... regardless of what 3abn does.

I think it is high time for the GC to have someone read this thing and recognize it for what it is, nothing but a lasso around their necks by which the 3abn wrangler has been leading them them around the mulberry bush. 3abn has NOT lived up to its part of the deal. It has NOT accepted programming produced by the church.... unless it jolly well happened to like it. It has NOT attempted to encourage people to "integrate into the Adventist church", but has, instead planted seeds of distrust of the church in people's minds, and put pressure on them to give all their available funds to them.... 3abn.... rather than supporting the conference in a financial way. They have insulted SDA ministries .... ordering Dan Matthews off the premises and refusing to show some of his programs. They have frequently through the years harbored those who implied or taught that the SDA church had apostatized and was now Babylon. And have claimed that they were the only ones teaching the "true" three angel's messages.... thus implying that the other media outlets of the SDA church were not.

I agree that it is time that the GC acted upon these things... but I do not agree that it should be done under this "Declaration of Committment". I think rather that they should examine it carefully, declare it as being broken many times over on the part of 3abn.... thus rendering it null and void and removing any obligation on the GC to recommend its utilization by any church entity.

3abn may be sending out information to its private mailing list that says it is a supporting ministry of the SDA church. But its PUBLIC declaration is that it is non-denominational and says nothing at all about being that closely connected with the Adventist church.

Here is the only statement on the 3abn website that mentions their "connection to the SDA church". This is in the "About Us" page, and the Mission Statement makes no reference to the SDA church at all. "3ABN is not owned, operated or funded by any church, denomination or organization, so people from all cultures and backgrounds appreciate 3ABN programming. Many of 3ABN's employees and volunteers are members of the Seventh-day Adventist Church. "

I think it is high time that the GC folk recognize that there are multiple violations of this agreement, and that they stop acting as though they are bound to their agreements made in it.

[Panama_Pete]

I think it is high time that the GC folk recognize that there are multiple violations of this agreement, and that they stop acting as though they are bound to their agreements made in it.

I think many people at the General Conference have not had an opportunity to even read the Declaration document. This may be the first some have heard of it, because they were not around Silver Spring in November, 1997. Some may not even know that the General Conference is currently committed to encouraging Seventh-day Adventist organizations to seek out 3ABN.

The General Conference cannot abrogate a document if they don't know it exists. So, we need to build some awareness of it. I agree with you, Watchbird, that the current people at the GC need to take out their bifocals and actually read the thing.

[watchbird]

I think many people at the General Conference have not had an opportunity to even read the Declaration document. This may be the first some have heard of it, because they were not around Silver Spring in November, 1997. Some may not even know that the General Conference is currently committed to encouraging Seventh-day Adventist organizations to seek out 3ABN.

The General Conference cannot abrogate a document if they don't know it exists. So, we need to build some awareness of it. I agree with you, Watchbird, that the current people at the GC need to take out their bifocals and actually read the thing.

In another BSDA thread, called "3ABN crucial documents", beginning with Post #12 , through #21 we looked at some of the dialogue between the GC and 3ABN which went on, according to a 3ABN person who was involved at the time, "over a year".

For reasons not apparent from the flow of the thread, the thread was interrupted, and we never got back to that specific set of documents. There was, however, one more that we had access to from that same April 1997 time frame which was never posted. I have now put that in the "3ABN Crucial Documents" thread, so it can be compared to the proposed contract which the GC offered to 3ABN at that time, and which 3ABN refused. This document is a "memorandum" from Danny Shelton's lawyers regarding the proposed contract. You may find it interesting.

[Green Cochoa]

...
This would also address the issue whereby some say, "Let God handle it." The General Conference Executive Committee is the closest we mortals can come to that right now, I'm guessing.

So, while you're all writing to Dish Network to add 3ABN, per Danny's request, write a second letter to the GC Executive Committee. Be sure to mention 3ABN's and Dr. Thompson's "unquestionable" evidence that 3ABN claims to have.

Is it something that we could do to write those letters to Dish Network on behalf of Hope Television?
As in, start the letter-writing campaign by putting out the word something like:

Hope Television has what might be a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to reach approximately 30,000,000 souls with the Gospel by getting Dish Network to add Hope Television to their channel lineup. But we can't do it without your help. We need you to enlist the help of your Church as well as friends, family and the local community in a letter writing campaign requesting Dish Network to carry Hope Television on their basic package. You may address your letters and postcards to:

Mr. Eric Sahl
Senior VP Programming
Dish Network
9601 S. Meridian
Englewood, CO 80112

Just a thought...

[Ralph]

The whole thing looks like a farce to me. Why it was ever signed by the GC is more than I can figure out. What does 3abn promise to do? Nothing more than vague statements of "support", which amounts to nothing concrete at all. What does the GC promise to do? Promote them to every Division and church entitiy.... regardless of what 3abn does.

Farce or not, it is a reality that will have to be dealt with. The key paragraph of the announcement at http://www.global-evangelism.org/FTP/97-11-03.pdf reads:
GC AND 3ABN APPROVE “JOINT DECLARATION:” After lengthy discussions, the 3ABN Board of Directors and the GC Administrative Committee approved a "Joint Declaration of Commitment" describing a cooperative working relationship. In the statement, both 3ABN and the General Conference affirmed each other and the vital importance of efficiency in the proclamation of the Three Angels’ Messages to the world. In addition to commitment and vision statements, the document also describes an issue resolution process by which representatives of 3ABN and members in the territories they serve, facilitated by the GC, can resolve any differences which may arise. The URL they give for the document is not valid, but most of the document is recorded in
http://www.tax.illinois.gov/legalinformati...s/pt/pt04-1.pdf starting on page 18.

[Lee]

[quote name='Chez' date='Oct 28 2006, 08:22 AM' post='158421']
Lee,
3ABN is suppose to be a supportive ministry, but financially, I think that is an Independent Ministry.

Chez: you are right here. I asked them and received a reply today. They do accept tithe from SDA's. So this makes them an Independent ministry to be technically correct.

Lee

[Skyhook]

If they openly accept tithe money, doesn't that mean that they are not supportive of the church, and in fact undermining the organized church? That would seem me to mean that any agreements between 3abn and the church written or otherwise would be meaningless. Does the GC understand that 3abn is accepting tithe money? I always thought that the GC took a fairly hard stance on that issue. Is that not correct?

[Lee]

The tithe is not a "test" question in our church. It is left to the individual where to send their tithe. It should nearly always be sent to the church to support our Pastors. I say "nearly" because there were a few times when Mrs. White sent her tithe to some Pastors who were beginning a work in the south that were not being paid and were in need. That is definitely not the norm now-a-days. Did Mrs. White support the SDA Church? Of course she did wholeheartedly.

Amazing Facts also accepts tithe as does some other ministries. But they return a "tithe" to the Conference of these received tithes. And they are careful to use them as salaries for Pastors in the work.

I do not know about Quiet Hour or Voice of Prophecy or It is Written, whether they accept tithe or not. They will let you know if you ask I'm sure.