 Another newbie critical of BSDA, Handling of the 3ABN threads |
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 Jan 28 2007, 09:52 PM
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#301
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 500 + posts  Group: Financial Donor Posts: 543 Joined: 6-April 06 Member No.: 1,672 Gender: f  |
QUOTE Aletheia Posted Today, 10:48 PM If you lived in Illinois,were married, and had sexual contact with a 17 yr old and a 19 yr old I think we could both agree that would be wrong and sin. What it would not be is child molestation according to the law, nor would they register you as a sex offender. You are right it wouldn't be child molestation it would be Rape if it was against their will. Still sick either way you look at it & still does immeasurable damage to the victims. -------------------- My second favorite household chore is ironing. My first one being -- hitting my head on the top bunk bed until I faint.
-Erma Bombeck- Inside me lives a skinny woman crying to get out. But I can usually shut her up with cookies. (Unknown) |
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Jan 28 2007, 10:08 PM
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#302
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 1,000 + posts  Group: Members Posts: 2,756 Joined: 10-September 06 Member No.: 2,231 Gender: m |
While I do not know about IL I know in some states it is illegal for a member of the clergy to have sex with one or their members, just as it is for a teacher to do so, no matter the age of the victim. Richard QUOTE(Hersheys99 @ Jan 28 2007, 10:52 PM) [snapback]173597[/snapback] You are right it wouldn't be child molestation it would be Rape if it was against their will. Still sick either way you look at it & still does immeasurable damage to the victims. |
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Jan 28 2007, 10:23 PM
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#303
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 5,000 + posts  Group: Charter Member Posts: 6,128 Joined: 20-July 03 Member No.: 15 Gender: m |
QUOTE(Aletheia @ Jan 28 2007, 10:48 PM) [snapback]173596[/snapback] Eric, My point was this. If you lived in Illinois,were married, and had sexual contact with a 17 yr old and a 19 yr old I think we could both agree that would be wrong and sin. What it would not be is child molestation according to the law, nor would they register you as a sex offender. If you truly believed the first statement, the second statement is irrelevant. The fact that you are working so hard to prove the second statement says IMO that if you could find a way to rationalize the acts noted in the first statement you would. Ok... if you were a married man, a pastor, and you had sexual contact with other men... even if it were not child molestation... it could still be molestation on the basis of your position but possibly not child molestation... and whether or not you had to be registered as a sex offender... You would be vile, reprehensible and just plain nasty... and if you were castrated by a rusty pair of garden shears and no anesthetic you'd still be getting off easy... In His service, Mr. J -------------------- There is no one more dangerous than one who thinks he knows God with a mind that is ignorant - Dr. Lewis Anthony
You’ve got to be real comfortable in your own skin to survive the animosity your strength evokes in people you'd hope would like you. - Dr. Renita Weems |
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Jan 28 2007, 10:24 PM
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#304
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 500 + posts Group: Banned Posts: 655 Joined: 6-December 06 From: USA Member No.: 2,621 Gender: f |
QUOTE(Hersheys99 @ Jan 28 2007, 10:52 PM) [snapback]173597[/snapback] You are right it wouldn't be child molestation it would be Rape if it was against their will. Still sick either way you look at it & still does immeasurable damage to the victims. Neither of the Clem brothers claimed rape... nor did Brad Dunning, he claimed there was no contact, and that he went to the police and they investigated and no charges were filed. |
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Jan 28 2007, 10:26 PM
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#305
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 5,000 + posts Group: Administrator Posts: 19,829 Joined: 20-July 03 From: Alabama Member No.: 4 Gender: m |
QUOTE(Aletheia @ Jan 28 2007, 10:24 PM) [snapback]173604[/snapback] Neither of the Clem brothers claimed rape... nor did Brad Dunning, he claimed there was no contact, and that he went to the police and they investigated and no charges were filed. "mama always said stupid is as stupid does....." -Forrest Gump Cindy why not just quit while you are ahead.... just stop it... you are so far on the side of wrong that it would take you 100 light years to even see a glimpse of rightness..... you are so wrong its insulting..... tiresome you are.... -------------------- "you are as sick as your secrets...." -quote from Celebrity Rehab-
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Jan 28 2007, 10:32 PM
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#306
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 1,000 + posts Group: Members Posts: 2,251 Joined: 25-August 06 Member No.: 2,169 Gender: f |
QUOTE(Aletheia @ Jan 27 2007, 07:04 PM) [snapback]173321[/snapback] It is not ok. But accusations need to be proved. Anyone is innocent till proven guilty and has a right to face his accusers. That is true of civil courts and in the Church. E-mails are not enough, especially when they aren't verified as to who wrote them and what the facts are. BTW, in Illinois the age of consent is 17 Cindy, you have 2 boys right? How old? After hearing the testimonies of the Clem brothers and Brad Dunning, if you were invited to leave your boys with Tommy Shelton for several hours would you? If not, why not? Also, if the age of consent is 17 in Illinois, then the young woman who had what Bystander called a consenting affair with William Cochran must have been younger than 17 to have gotten him convicted of Aggravated Criminal Sex Assault Victim 13 - 18. Correct? QUOTE(Aletheia @ Jan 28 2007, 09:24 PM) [snapback]173604[/snapback] Neither of the Clem brothers claimed rape... nor did Brad Dunning, he claimed there was no contact, and that he went to the police and they investigated and no charges were filed. Cindy, perhaps you should try to get your facts straight. Here is what Brad Dunning said about the police: QUOTE We then went to the West Frankfort Police Department and filed a formal complaint. To my knowledge, no charges were brought against Tommy. Our family suspected that Tommy was being protected by State Police officers who were members of his congregation. If a minister talked dirty to you or your children would you consider that okay as long as there was no contact? -------------------- Got Peace?
John 14:27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid. "Truth welcomes examination and doesn't need to defend itself, while deception hides in darkness and blames everyone else." Aunt B, 2007 |
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Jan 28 2007, 10:32 PM
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#307
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 PrincessDrRe Group: Financial Donor Posts: 9,011 Joined: 8-November 04 Member No.: 712 Gender: f |
QUOTE(Clay @ Jan 29 2007, 12:26 AM) [snapback]173607[/snapback] "mama always said stupid is as stupid does....." -Forrest Gump Cindy why not just quit while you are ahead.... just stop it... you are so far on the side of wrong that it would take you 100 light years to even see a glimpse of rightness..... you are so wrong its insulting..... tiresome you are....  QUOTE(PeacefullyBewildered @ Jan 29 2007, 12:27 AM) [snapback]173609[/snapback] Cindy, you have 2 boys right? How old? After hearing the testimonies of the Clem brothers and Brad Dunning, if you were invited to leave your boys with Tommy Shelton for several hours would you? If not, why not? I would like to know your answer to this Aletheia. If you would, you are a person that would never....EVER babysit my child - even if you became family. Why? Because if you would endanger your own - you would care less about mine... -------------------- *"Some folks use their ignorance like a umbrella. It covers everything, they perodically take it out from time to time, but it never is too far away from them."*
PrincessDrRe; March, 2007 ~"Blood = Meat, Face = Meat, Internal "Organs" = Meat - you can try to make it cuter; but it's still meat...."~ PrincessDrRe; September, 2007 *(NOTE: Any advice given by Re' Silvey, MSW is not to be taken as medical/mental health advice. Although trained to be a counselor, currently employed as a therapist, and currently pursuing her PhD in Counseling Psychology (ABD/I) - she is not your assigned therapist. Please consult a mental health professional of your choice for a face-to-face consultation.)* |
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Jan 29 2007, 01:06 AM
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#308
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Advanced Member  Group: Financial Donor Posts: 334 Joined: 7-January 07 Member No.: 2,782 Gender: m |
QUOTE(Aletheia @ Jan 28 2007, 07:48 PM) [snapback]173596[/snapback] Aletheia, have you gone back and read the posts and topics from the very first ones way back in 2004, if not then i would humblely suggest that you do, because they speak the loudest about nature of the discussion here at BSDA. it did nto start has a witch hunt like you seem to think, and has just recently reread those topics it was mr. danny shelton himself how came here posting stuff that was trying to further his personal witch hunt agaist linda. if you want all facts go read them. erik Eric, My point was this. Here are the facts. If you lived in Illinois,were married, and had sexual contact with a 17 yr old and a 19 yr old I think we could both agree that would be wrong and sin. What it would not be is child molestation according to the law, nor would they register you as a sex offender. Aletheia, so let just straight up ask you, are you cool with a pastor asking anyone regardless of age for sexaul favors and for that matter regardless of the gender being asked? I am personal not at all comfortable with that thought. you might make more progress on your search for truth if you did not come acroos as trying to cover for danny and his family, i personally think at this point you are not doing that, but i can see from your post why some might wonder. erik w. |
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Jan 29 2007, 01:10 AM
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#309
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 483 Joined: 6-January 07 Member No.: 2,777 Gender: m |
QUOTE(Aletheia @ Jan 28 2007, 07:11 PM) [snapback]173578[/snapback] Well nothing makes you have to give me the benefit of the doubt, but the truth is, I never saw the post in this thread where he signed his name till the reaction of all here, caused me to go back and look, thus my apology. Yesterday there was alot of posting, I was trying to play catchup on what I'd missed the previous day as well as trying to keep up with new posts. So I never read the thread where he "came out" till after my conversation with him here. So now I am at fault for not reading all, am a troll and trying to incite drama? Look around you, Calvin, the drama here pre-existed my arrival, and continues whether I am here or not. It's your forum, and your rules, and that I respect, but my thoughts and feelings are mine, and frankly I'm just flat out disapointed and disgusted at your reaction, and how those rules are applied so arbitrarily. I agree 100%. Everyone on this forum says whatever they want to say and they say it however they want to say it, good, bad or ugly. Why doesn't Aletheia have the same rights? You all jump down her throat because she asks questions instead of just accepting whatever junk is posted here. The philosophy here is to agree with the majority or your labeled as stupid. Well, guess what? The majority is usually wrong. |
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Jan 29 2007, 03:17 AM
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#310
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 1,000 + posts Group: Members Posts: 1,521 Joined: 17-October 04 From: Iceland, formerly Denmark, Norway, USA, Sierra Leone, Nigeria, Faeroe Islands. Bound for Heaven. Member No.: 686 Gender: m |
QUOTE(Bystander @ Jan 29 2007, 09:10 AM) [snapback]173633[/snapback] - - - Well, guess what? The majority is usually wrong. So the majority on the 3ABN board is also wrong? -------------------- "Any fact that needs to be disclosed should be put out now or as quickly as possible, because otherwise the bleeding will not end." (Attributed to Henry Kissinger) "He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it" (Martin Luther King)  "The truth can lose nothing by close investigation". (1888 Materials 38) |
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Jan 29 2007, 07:20 AM
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#311
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5,000 + posts Group: Administrator Posts: 19,829 Joined: 20-July 03 From: Alabama Member No.: 4 Gender: m |
QUOTE(Bystander @ Jan 29 2007, 01:10 AM) [snapback]173633[/snapback] I agree 100%. Everyone on this forum says whatever they want to say and they say it however they want to say it, good, bad or ugly. Why doesn't Aletheia have the same rights? You all jump down her throat because she asks questions instead of just accepting whatever junk is posted here. The philosophy here is to agree with the majority or your labeled as stupid. Well, guess what? The majority is usually wrong. not quite Bystander... you fit the category because you don't know how to keep your word, you ignore the obvious evidence, you minimize the mess at 3ABN, you attempt to distract by minutiae, and last but not least, you are really tiresome.....the majority may or may not be wrong....one thing for certain YOU are most definitely wrong.... -------------------- "you are as sick as your secrets...." -quote from Celebrity Rehab-
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Jan 29 2007, 08:25 AM
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#312
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500 + posts Group: Members Posts: 857 Joined: 6-April 06 Member No.: 1,664 Gender: m |
QUOTE(Aletheia @ Jan 28 2007, 09:24 PM) [snapback]173604[/snapback] Neither of the Clem brothers claimed rape... nor did Brad Dunning, he claimed there was no contact, and that he went to the police and they investigated and no charges were filed. NOTE: For a charge of rape to be sustained, the alleged victim does not have to claim that it was rape. Statutory rape is defined by law, and the claim of the victim is irrevelant. It is true that statutory rape most often applies when a person under the age of consent is the alleged victim. But, there are situations when under that law statutory rape may be committed upon a person over the age of consent. -------------------- Gregory Matthews posts here under the name "Observer."
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Jan 29 2007, 07:57 PM
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#313
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 389 Joined: 13-August 06 Member No.: 2,078 Gender: m |
QUOTE(Aletheia @ Jan 28 2007, 08:11 PM) [snapback]173578[/snapback] Look around you, Calvin, the drama here pre-existed my arrival, and continues whether I am here or not. You know...you could leave so we could verify this...for posterity, you know.  QUOTE(Aletheia @ Jan 28 2007, 11:24 PM) [snapback]173604[/snapback] Neither of the Clem brothers claimed rape... nor did Brad Dunning, he claimed there was no contact, and that he went to the police and they investigated and no charges were filed. I think you should go somewhere, anywhere quiet, and reread very slowly Duane's testimony and then you can highlight where, exactly, that you find where it was consentual. It is clearly a matter of Tommy being in a position of power/authority over him and him feeling compelled to participate. The pro-Dan/Tommy side argument started as... "Tommy wouldn't do that." then "Danny wouldn't lie about Tommy doing that." then "Where are the accusers?" then "It was a "relationship", not molestation." then "They weren't minors! What's the big deal?" now "It was consentual!" possibly next "Tommy has repented." QUOTE(PeacefullyBewildered @ Jan 28 2007, 11:32 PM) [snapback]173609[/snapback] Also, if the age of consent is 17 in Illinois, then the young woman who had what Bystander called a consenting affair with William Cochran must have been younger than 17 to have gotten him convicted of Aggravated Criminal Sex Assault Victim 13 - 18. Correct? Don't forget, it was the parents that turned him in... (It couldn't have been a 30 year old high school or college student who's parents made the call like some would have us believe.) This post has been edited by husbandoftheyear: Jan 29 2007, 07:55 PM -------------------- "The pure and simple truth is rarely pure and never simple."
Oscar Wilde |
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Jan 29 2007, 08:19 PM
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#314
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 70 Joined: 8-December 06 Member No.: 2,634 Gender: m |
Aletheia's School of Spin
1. Claim there is no evidence Letters arrive from victims 2. Claim victims could be manufactured Duane verifies his identity 3. Ignore that he was sexually assaulted and question his dates of employment Duane re-directs the conversation back to the truth (Good going Duane) 4. Try to take focus off of nature of sexual crimes by making argument Age of Consent Points to fact she (he) thinks molesting a 17 year old is acceptable 5. Focus on the word RAPE, in order to make inappropriate sexual behavior more acceptable Touching someone who doesn't want to be touched sexually is still wrong Talking to someone sexually, who does not welcome your advances is wrong A pastor using his position of authority to sexually abuse ANYONE is wrong 6. No matter how much evidence appears, SPIN, SPIN, SPIN Note: I said "she (he)" under number 4, because no one really knows the true gender of anyone registered. There is really no way to verify whether the person is a male or female just because they indicated they were a male when they registered. |
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Jan 29 2007, 08:32 PM
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#315
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5,000 + posts Group: Administrator Posts: 19,829 Joined: 20-July 03 From: Alabama Member No.: 4 Gender: m |
QUOTE(lookin4truth @ Jan 29 2007, 08:19 PM) [snapback]173843[/snapback] Aletheia's School of Spin 1. Claim there is no evidence Letters arrive from victims 2. Claim victims could be manufactured Duane verifies his identity 3. Ignore that he was sexually assaulted and question his dates of employment Duane re-directs the conversation back to the truth (Good going Duane) 4. Try to take focus off of nature of sexual crimes by making argument Age of Consent Points to fact she (he) thinks molesting a 17 year old is acceptable 5. Focus on the word RAPE, in order to make inappropriate sexual behavior more acceptable Touching someone who doesn't want to be touched sexually is still wrong Talking to someone sexually, who does not welcome your advances is wrong A pastor using his position of authority to sexually abuse ANYONE is wrong 6. No matter how much evidence appears, SPIN, SPIN, SPIN Note: I said "she (he)" under number 4, because no one really knows the true gender of anyone registered. There is really no way to verify whether the person is a male or female just because they indicated they were a male when they registered. good summary 4truth.... you are definitely payin attention....
-------------------- "you are as sick as your secrets...." -quote from Celebrity Rehab-
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