3abn Jan. 2007 Letter Options

[erik]

Watchbird who are the victims? And who are you victimizing? Is God's grace only written by your fingers? Repentance who needs to repent besides you and I? Reformation, tell me about reformation, is this not a work of the heart also? Do you know any of these peoples hearts? Tell me now about restitution, what is the depth of restitution and for whom would this resitution ride on? First we must be clear on what was taken and from whom. Tell me Watchbird what would the restitution be? Clearly there is a difference between works and salvation by Grace through Jesus Christ. Works are taking the law and anything that God has given to us and proceeding with any of it "on our own". We can't make the law holy, it already is. We can do nothing in and of ourselves otherwise it is works.
Please Watchbird tell me who is it that owns the guilt in this?

EW,

So just what are you suggesting be done then, NOTHING???????????????????????????

i am sorry but that is as they say here a dog that can not hunt period.

erik

[watchbird]

Watchbird who are the victims? And who are you victimizing? Is God's grace only written by your fingers? Repentance who needs to repent besides you and I? Reformation, tell me about reformation, is this not a work of the heart also? Do you know any of these peoples hearts? Tell me now about restitution, what is the depth of restitution and for whom would this resitution ride on? First we must be clear on what was taken and from whom. Tell me Watchbird what would the restitution be? Clearly there is a difference between works and salvation by Grace through Jesus Christ. Works are taking the law and anything that God has given to us and proceeding with any of it "on our own". We can't make the law holy, it already is. We can do nothing in and of ourselves otherwise it is works.
Please Watchbird tell me who is it that owns the guilt in this?

You are almost... but not quite.... amusing.

If, as you claim, you are an "eye witness" then you know all of the answers to your questions about who the victims are without consulting me. Even if you are NOT an "eye witness" as you claim to be... the records are here... many of the victims have spoken... you may read and collect information that would answer your questions.

As for your excursions-diversions into theological discourse... forget it... I am well aware of the rudiments of salvation.... AND the ethical requirements of living by the gospel that has saved us. All you are doing here is distracting ... and you know that very well... keep it up... you are exposing the shallowness of your soul and of your understanding. The world is watching. You are writing your own record for all to read.

We are reading... we are watching... we are paying attention.

[erik]

You are almost... but not quite.... amusing.

If, as you claim, you are an "eye witness" then you know all of the answers to your questions about who the victims are without consulting me. Even if you are NOT an "eye witness" as you claim to be... the records are here... many of the victims have spoken... you may read and collect information that would answer your questions.

As for your excursions-diversions into theological discourse... forget it... I am well aware of the rudiments of salvation.... AND the ethical requirements of living by the gospel that has saved us. All you are doing here is distracting ... and you know that very well... keep it up... you are exposing the shallowness of your soul and of your understanding. The world is watching. You are writing your own record for all to read.

We are reading... we are watching... we are paying attention.

watchbird,

If i did not know better i would almost guess this is the man in question, but i know we are not supposed to figure out names so i will not spell it out.


erik

[PeacefulBe]

Watchbird who are the victims? And who are you victimizing? Is God's grace only written by your fingers? Repentance who needs to repent besides you and I? Reformation, tell me about reformation, is this not a work of the heart also? Do you know any of these peoples hearts? Tell me now about restitution, what is the depth of restitution and for whom would this resitution ride on? First we must be clear on what was taken and from whom. Tell me Watchbird what would the restitution be? Clearly there is a difference between works and salvation by Grace through Jesus Christ. Works are taking the law and anything that God has given to us and proceeding with any of it "on our own". We can't make the law holy, it already is. We can do nothing in and of ourselves otherwise it is works.
Please Watchbird tell me who is it that owns the guilt in this?

What is our part as sinners? To accept Jesus' robe of righteousness.

Can someone, say a pastor for example, who has abused and betrayed young people, accept this saving robe of righteousness while he has not yet approached his victims and asked for their forgiveness or inquired what can be done to help them heal?

PB

[watchbird]

watchbird,

If i did not know better i would almost guess this is the man in question, but i know we are not supposed to figure out names so i will not spell it out.
erik

Well... it is true that he is a preacher, so the tone would fit. But OTOH, the profile says "female", so let's assume that she was being truthful to at least this extent.....

[Pickle]

eye witness,

You have tried to come down hard on people who would like to call sin, all sin, by its right name. And yet you also accused Gailon of embezzling without giving the clarification that he gave, that he got caught on the technicality that if you hold on to an amount of money someone else owes you, in Vermont you can be convicted of embezzlement.

Now wouldn't you say that your accusation was deceptive, just like Danny's is everytime he says it? Or do you have evidence that explains away Gailon's explanation, but like Danny, you are hiding that evidence so no one can see it?

Do you work for Danny?

Why would you call me a pastor? I'm just curious.

[Green Cochoa]

Repentance and reformtion are not "works". They are part of salvation by God's Grace.

Restitution is not "works". It is part of what is required of every one who wears the robe of Christ's righteousness.

We cannot see the heart. But we can surely see the actions that the heart prompts. And we have not seen any evidence of any changed heart on the part of any of the abusers connected with 3abn.... yourself included!

Don't come preaching forgiveness while you are aiding and abetting someone to cover their sins. It is God's place to forgive. Our place is to protect the victims... and to do all we can to prevent others from becoming victimized.

Er....whatzat? Ellen White, speaking of the Matthew 18 principle, which most certainly applies to this case, said:

"If thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother" (Matt. 18:15). This is the way in which misunderstandings are to be settled. Speaking alone, and in the spirit of Christ to the one who is in fault, will often remove the difficulty. Show Christlike love for your brother by seeking to adjust the difficulty "between thee and him alone." Talk quietly together. Let no angry words escape your lips. Present the subject in a way that will appeal to his best judgment. And if he will hear you, you have gained him as a friend. {UL 106.2}
Whatever the character of the offense may be, this does not change the plan God has made for the settlement of misunderstandings and personal injuries. Act out the spirit of Christ. Take the recipe God has provided, and carry it to the spiritually diseased [one]. Give him the remedy that will cure the disease of disaffection. Do your part to help him. Feel that it is a duty and privilege to do this, for the sake of the unity and peace of the church, which is very dear to the heart of Christ. He does not want any wound to remain unhealed on any member of His church. All heaven is interested in the interview between the injured member and the one who has been guilty of error. After settling the difficulty, pray together, and angels of God will come to you and bless you. There is music in heaven over this union. {UL 106.3}
As the erring one accepts the testimony borne, and gives evidence of true repentance, the sunshine of heaven fills his heart. Hearts are drawn together. The healing oil of love removes the disease and soreness of the wrong. The Holy Spirit binds heart to heart. {UL 106.4}
Those who have been united in Christian fellowship offer prayer to God, and pledge themselves to deal justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with God. If they have wronged others, they continue the work of repentance, confession, and restitution; and the disease is healed. They are fully set to do good to one another. This is the fulfilling of the law of Christ. {UL 106.5}
Repentance, confession, and restitution are all required. But these cannot atone for the sin, for God has been wronged in the person of His saints. The Lord Jesus alone is able to atone for sin, by the application of His blood, shed for the guilt of the sinner. His blood cleanses from all sin.--Manuscript 47, April 2, 1902, "Lessons From the Eighteenth of Matthew." {UL 106.6}

Regarding the "works" of repentance, confession, restitution, and reformation there are over a hundred references to these (as works) in her writings. Perhaps the Bible uses the word "fruits" in place of "works" at times. And by their "fruits" we shall know them!