Just Some Facts, Salaries Options

[Lenni]

Who are these children that Danny had? I thought that Melody was/is an only child. Hmmm...

Danny has 2 older daughters, Lisa and Rhonda, by his first wife.

[roxe]

Danny has 2 older daughters, Lisa and Rhonda, by his first wife.

"several years ago" they would be in school??

these two daughters must be almost 25 years old, or older, by now, right??

This post has been edited by roxe: Feb 7 2007, 11:29 PM

[Johann]

"several years ago" they would be in school??

these two daughters must be almost 25 years old by now, right??

Seems like Danny stated on TV about 3 years ago that Melody was 30. Her half-sisters are not Danny's real daughters. His first wife was married before and had these daughters with her first husband. But are we to reveal a woman's age?

This post has been edited by Johann: Feb 7 2007, 11:35 PM

[roxe]

Danny has 2 older daughters, Lisa and Rhonda, by his first wife.

so, there is Lisa, Rhonda, and Melody, by his first wife?

[Lenni]

Danny has 2 older daughters, Lisa and Rhonda, by his first wife.

Yes, both are older than Melody. I'll correct myself by saying I believe they are both Danny's biological daughter's by his first wife, Kay, that was killed in a car accident years ago. I know they both went by the last name of Shelton but I was just a child when I knew them and children aren't always made privy to all information. I know that Rhonda for sure favored the Sheltons. I thought Lisa looked more like her mom.

To my knowledge, they always referred to Danny as their dad.

[Spike]

Danny has 2 older daughters, Lisa and Rhonda, by his first wife.

Aren't the girls from his first wifes first marriage and were not living with DS when he started 3abn?

[Pickle]

Folks don't waste your time trying to tear this up, this has all been verified.

Super. Just what we need.

Can you post some scans of the documents that would substiantiate your claims? That would settle it once and for all.

[roxe]

Seems like Danny stated on TV about 3 years ago that Melody was 30. Her half-sisters are not Danny's real daughters. His first wife was married before and had these daughters with her first husband. But are we to reveal a woman's age?

Johann,
i'm not trying to reveal anyone's age... just trying to figure out who the children were "several years ago" that the conference wasn't paying for, according to Bystander. guess we'll need to wait till he comes back to the thread to tell us, if he will.

This post has been edited by roxe: Feb 7 2007, 11:45 PM

[Lenni]

Seems like Danny stated on TV about 3 years ago that Melody was 30. Her half-sisters are not Danny's real daughters. His first wife was married before and had these daughters with her first husband. But are we to reveal a woman's age?

Thanks for clarifying and correcting me. I'm sure there has been some misinformation posted on this site but I don't want to become a source of any of it.

Melody is 1 year older than me and since I would be revealing my age by telling her's...................... I won't.

[Johann]

- - -
Melody is 1 year older than me and since I would be revealing my age by telling her's...................... I won't.

We got some humor! You almost sound like Danny Shelton when he is revealing Melody's age in public!!!

[roxe]

Melody is 1 year older than me and since I would be revealing my age by telling her's...................... I won't.

oh dear...... um....

Lenni...... ahem....

don't look at post #18 above, ok??


mmmmm....
(just so glad it wasn't me posting that...)

We got some humor! You almost sound like Danny Shelton when he is revealing Melody's age in public!!!

wow Johann, you brave

[Observer]

Re: "7..Most Conferences claim that to totally support a pastor a church must pay at least $120,000 to $150,000 tithe. Not all of this goes to him of course.

8..It should also be noted that the Administrators of our SDA Hospitals make in the hundreds of thousands of dollars per year. Why?
Their responsibility is much more than a local pastor of a church, for instance. They are responsible to over see millions and millions of dollars a year.

9..Danny's responsibility can in no way be compared to a regular church pastor in an SDA church. How many of them are responsible for overseeing nearly 200 full time workers around the world? How many SDA pastors are "required" to raise $17,000,000 per year to keep the ministry growing and going into all the world?"

A number of comments have been made which are accurate, but subject to missundering. I shall comment on a couple of the statements:

1: It is true that a typical Conference in the USA requires a congregation to have an increase in tithe of from $120,000 to $150,000 to have the Conference support adding an additional pastor to the staff. i.e. To have two pastors, the congregation would be required to have a tithe income of from $240 K to $300 K per year. It is also true that the salary paid to the pastor is much less than the amount required by the Conference to be the congregations annual income. The reason for this is to accommodate for the per-cent age of congregational tithe that is passed through the Conference to the Union, NAD, and General Conference. In other words, the Conference does not have the freedom to use the entire amount of congregational tithe income.

2) Yes, as I have stated publicly in a post on Club Adventist, Danny Shelton was underpaid, according the IRS 990s, for the work that he did for 3-ABN. According to my memory, I stated at that time that a fair salary for him as President of 3-ABN would have been in the $70 K to $75 K range. As that was some time ago, I would probably raise those figures by $5,000 if I were to make such a statement now.

3) The standard reimbursements for children of SDA employees is either 1/3 or 2/3 of the tuition. The 1/3 is paid for children who attend a day school, and the 2/3 is paid for children who are living at a boarding school. NOTE: I do not receive one penny to reimburse me for my son who is in a SDA college. I am fully responsible for his costs, less certain scholarships that he has received due to his academic standing.

4) As to the salary of hospital administrators: That is a controversial subject. The issues regarding their pay may be debated. However, there is a wide range in pay, and one should be careful not to generalize beyond what is fact. Denver Colorado has a large number of hospitals, several of which are SDA. A few months back a local newspaper published information regarding the salaries paid to the CEOs of these hospitals. The church that I attend has three present and former hospital ?CEOs (Actually, I believe it to be four, as I think about it.). One of them was listed as receiving a salary of $164,000. Others received more, but I do not remember their exact figures. Now, $164 K is a big salary. It is certainly more than I make, and probably most of you. I will not challenge that some CEOs of SDA hospitals receive a several hundred thousand dollars salary. But, that should not be generalized beyond what is actually the case.

Re: "7..Most Conferences claim that to totally support a pastor a church must pay at least $120,000 to $150,000 tithe. Not all of this goes to him of course.

8..It should also be noted that the Administrators of our SDA Hospitals make in the hundreds of thousands of dollars per year. Why?
Their responsibility is much more than a local pastor of a church, for instance. They are responsible to over see millions and millions of dollars a year.

9..Danny's responsibility can in no way be compared to a regular church pastor in an SDA church. How many of them are responsible for overseeing nearly 200 full time workers around the world? How many SDA pastors are "required" to raise $17,000,000 per year to keep the ministry growing and going into all the world?"

A number of comments have been made which are accurate, but subject to missundering. I shall comment on a couple of the statements:

1: It is true that a typical Conference in the USA requires a congregation to have an increase in tithe of from $120,000 to $150,000 to have the Conference support adding an additional pastor to the staff. i.e. To have two pastors, the congregation would be required to have a tithe income of from $240 K to $300 K per year. It is also true that the salary paid to the pastor is much less than the amount required by the Conference to be the congregations annual income. The reason for this is to accommodate for the per-cent age of congregational tithe that is passed through the Conference to the Union, NAD, and General Conference. In other words, the Conference does not have the freedom to use the entire amount of congregational tithe income.

2) Yes, as I have stated publicly in a post on Club Adventist, Danny Shelton was underpaid, according the IRS 990s, for the work that he did for 3-ABN. According to my memory, I stated at that time that a fair salary for him as President of 3-ABN would have been in the $70 K to $75 K range. As that was some time ago, I would probably raise those figures by $5,000 if I were to make such a statement now.

3) The standard reimbursements for children of SDA employees is either 1/3 or 2/3 of the tuition. The 1/3 is paid for children who attend a day school, and the 2/3 is paid for children who are living at a boarding school. NOTE: I do not receive one penny to reimburse me for my son who is in a SDA college. I am fully responsible for his costs, less certain scholarships that he has received due to his academic standing.

4) As to the salary of hospital administrators: That is a controversial subject. The issues regarding their pay may be debated. However, there is a wide range in pay, and one should be careful not to generalize beyond what is fact. Denver Colorado has a large number of hospitals, several of which are SDA. A few months back a local newspaper published information regarding the salaries paid to the CEOs of these hospitals. The church that I attend has three present and former hospital ?CEOs (Actually, I believe it to be four, as I think about it.). One of them was listed as receiving a salary of $164,000. Others received more, but I do not remember their exact figures. Now, $164 K is a big salary. It is certainly more than I make, and probably most of you. I will not challenge that some CEOs of SDA hospitals receive a several hundred thousand dollars salary. But, that should not be generalized beyond what is actually the case.

Re: "1..Danny still makes less than most pastors when you include all their benefits. Danny does not even get retirement that all SDA pastors get."

Danny may not get a retirement package. But, in my opinion, the rest is subject to serious challenge. Consider all of the perks that Danny gets as well as pastors. As a pastor I never had a corporate jet waiting to wisk me away on a trip!

[Observer]

Re: "Danny does not even get retirement that all SDA pastors get."

The above statement introduces a factor that I believe to be critical.

Danny should recieve both a fair salary, and a fair retirement.

3-ABN should fairly compensate their employees, both in salary, in a medical plan, and in retirement benefits.

A failure to do the above has been shown, time and again, both in the SDA Chruch, and in other non-profit fields to result in major problems.

When people are either not paid a fair wage, or are not provided with a fair retirement package, they are forced to look elsewhere to provide for either their present or futher livehood. The problem arises when they get into ethical conflicts of interest. When that happens, and it becomes public, at best the institusiton suffers, and at worst there is a criminal conviction.

In the area where I live, the State is conducting an investigation of a non-SDA pastor. It seems that he developed a plan to sell life insurance to members and/or people he claimed were employees of his chruch. The media is reporting that he recieved income from the premiums that were paid on those policies, and in addition that a portion of the proceeds of the policies upon death went to chruch related entities. e.g. The media is reporting that in a recent death, a $100,000 policy is set up to only pay $10,000 to the beneficiary, and that $90,000 is to go elsewhere.

As the State is investigating all of this. I do not know what is true, and what is not. That will be determined as the investigation goes forward. I do not know if the pastor committed any crime. Altough the investigation is in part focused on whether or not he violated the law and functioned as an unlicensed insurance agent.

Anyway, my point: When people are not fairly provided for in either their current living situaiton, or in their retirment, they seek other means to fulfill those needs. Those means may turn into conflicts of interest.

All organization are better off by paying their employees fairly, and by providing for medical and retirement. 3-ABN will profit if it does so for Danny and all employees. Danny and all deserve it, as long as they are employeed by 3-ABN.

[Chez]

Re: "Danny does not even get retirement that all SDA pastors get."

The above statement introduces a factor that I believe to be critical.

Danny should recieve both a fair salary, and a fair retirement.

3-ABN should fairly compensate their employees, both in salary, in a medical plan, and in retirement benefits.

A failure to do the above has been shown, time and again, both in the SDA Chruch, and in other non-profit fields to result in major problems.

When people are either not paid a fair wage, or are not provided with a fair retirement package, they are forced to look elsewhere to provide for either their present or futher livehood. The problem arises when they get into ethical conflicts of interest. When that happens, and it becomes public, at best the institusiton suffers, and at worst there is a criminal conviction.

In the area where I live, the State is conducting an investigation of a non-SDA pastor. It seems that he developed a plan to sell life insurance to members and/or people he claimed were employees of his chruch. The media is reporting that he recieved income from the premiums that were paid on those policies, and in addition that a portion of the proceeds of the policies upon death went to chruch related entities. e.g. The media is reporting that in a recent death, a $100,000 policy is set up to only pay $10,000 to the beneficiary, and that $90,000 is to go elsewhere.

As the State is investigating all of this. I do not know what is true, and what is not. That will be determined as the investigation goes forward. I do not know if the pastor committed any crime. Altough the investigation is in part focused on whether or not he violated the law and functioned as an unlicensed insurance agent.

Anyway, my point: When people are not fairly provided for in either their current living situaiton, or in their retirment, they seek other means to fulfill those needs. Those means may turn into conflicts of interest.

All organization are better off by paying their employees fairly, and by providing for medical and retirement. 3-ABN will profit if it does so for Danny and all employees. Danny and all deserve it, as long as they are employeed by 3-ABN.

What is Danny's total benefit package? In my state, we have low wages; however, when we assess our benefits, then there is a significant increase in our overall financial package.

[Lenni]

oh dear...... um....

Lenni...... ahem....

don't look at post #18 above, ok??
mmmmm....
(just so glad it wasn't me posting that...)
wow Johann, you brave

Actually I did see the #18 post...I'd be happy with that number.

Oh, I'm really not that old but we women have to have a little mystery about us don't we?

Oh yeah, Johann, way to welcome a newcomer. Ha! I like your style!!!