Letter From Linda Shelton @ Www.lindashelton.org - Feb. '07, Linda Shelton demands the evidence be made public Options

[SoulEspresso]

Well, we have the general idea, anyway.

I applaud Linda for working on this. Hopefully it will lead to greater healing of her own hurt as well as to resolution of this issue as a smudge on the church's reputation.

Then, will it lead to the openness in dealing with all the other problems at 3ABN?

[Nuggie]

Here is the letter from Linda in its entirety and is also available at www.LindaShelton.org and on www.save3ABN.com .

The question I have is why was this letter presented here as something Linda was ready to publish. Implicit in the OP was that Linda had approved the letter. Makes me wonder what else has been presented as "fact" that really isn't.

This post has been edited by Nuggie: Feb 15 2007, 02:13 PM

[sonshineonme]

The question I have is why was this letter presented here as something Linda was ready to publish. Implicit in the OP was that Linda had approved the letter. Makes me wonder what else has been presented as "fact" that really isn't.

The letter was understood as being the final copy. That was a misunderstanding. The final is to come soon. It won't change in context. It was a simple misunderstanding and it was caught immediately and also comminicated immediately here. Observer explained it well. Mistakes happen. It was aknowledged and that speaks for it'self. We are only human

[Aletheia]

The letter was understood as being the final copy. That was a misunderstanding. The final is to come soon. It won't change in context. It was a simple misunderstanding and it was caught immediately and also comminicated immediately here. Observer explained it well. Mistakes happen. It was aknowledged and that speaks for it'self. We are only human

Well I'm certainly interested in what editing and changes will be in the final copy, after the replies here...

[Observer]

Watchbird and PB why don't you go answer Uncle Sam in the appropriate thread so he can answer you too?

Off topic discussion is never caused by just one...
Observer, I just read your really long multiple replies to me ...

have you ever heard of the KISS principle? as in Keep it simple silly?

I'll get back to you, with a simple rebuttal.

Yes, I have heard of the KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) mantra.

But, that mantra does not work with some people.

You kept it simple, without any backup documentation. Thus I could not respond to a simple cited item of documention. To keep from being accuse of selective editing, I had to respond to you at some length.

However, in reality, I did keep it short in relation to the amount of material published. So, I did adhere to your mantra.

The letter was understood as being the final copy. That was a misunderstanding. The final is to come soon. It won't change in context. It was a simple misunderstanding and it was caught immediately and also comminicated immediately here. Observer explained it well. Mistakes happen. It was aknowledged and that speaks for it'self. We are only human

As I have said many times, we are imperfect. You will catch us in mistakes. This will not be the last one.

However, I would rather publish a mistake that I have discovered than to be accused of covering it up in the hope that no one would learn about it.

I do not know exactly what Linda will publish on her website. I do not know in what ways it will differ from the letter posted here. But, I do beleive that whatever Linda published on her website will be close to what was posted here. In any case, we will just have to wait to see.

Well I'm certainly interested in what editing and changes will be in the final copy, after the replies here...

It is nice to know that you are now a fan of Linda's literary efforts.

[Noahswife]

However, I would rather publish a mistake that I have discovered than to be accused of covering it up in the hope that no one would learn about it.

Well spoken observer.

nw

[Panama_Pete]

Yet here comes Linda and all that she demands now to be made public is proof that she committed adultery??? That could have already been done had she agreed.
She must think people are stupid.

This is what you said in December, Aletheia. I highlighted a few of your sentences.

1. I didn't come here asking for people to just say things, anybody can say anything, even liars and deceivers. I have only been looking for verifiable facts and evidence. My questions have been concerned with getting to that.

2. I am not trying to defend Danny personally, for I don't know him, but I can't help but notice there is an awful lot about him on this forum which hasn't been proven.

3. I am concerned about the truth and I am concerned about 3ABN's ministry and outreach, it is a wonderful tool to reach millions all over the world and I hope to see it continue to be so, to the glory Of God, and help reach his people and prepare them.

4. If people can't understand that, then I guess that's their problem, not mine.

~ Aletheia

Linda is also demanding the verifiable facts and evidence and truth as are you.

Since you are concerned about the truth, as you say you are, you should be pleased with Linda's demand for the exact same evidence, which 3ABN has claimed to have in their possession.

You also said:

On the otherhand, if I had such defending me, I'd have to speak up for myself and ask them to stop from shame, and embarassment.

Thus my question on several occasions:

Where is Linda's voice in all this?

Linda is speaking up for herself as you can see from this rough draft of her letter.

You're hearing "Linda's voice" as you have requested "on several occasions."

Once again, you should be pleased with that.

[Clay]

gonna move the questions about the pregnancy test to that thread.....

[SoulEspresso]

I posted to this effect the other day but I'll say it again (I hope this doesn't count as double posting): unless you're an eyewitness yourself, anything anyone tells you is hearsay--until established in a court of law.

I don't know whether scans of original documents count--legally speaking. And this isn't a court anyway, no such thing as an online court. I'm not a legal person, but I've had enough contact with this sort of stuff to know you have to be careful.

You don't come to the Internet, generally, looking for verifiable evidence on a topic like this. Especially not a message board.

What you can do is look at the various versions of hearsay and try to weigh them. It can be exhausting, reading all the threads; I reviewed them this morning again. I don't pretend to have covered all of them, but the overall picture is that there's a lot of nefarious business at the network, and no one there can seem to refute it.

I say "there" and mean "here." 3ABN folks post here all the time trying to spin the discussion in every way they can, but if they had any good proof they could talk about -- wouldn't it have come up by now? The pregnancy test? Please.

Linda has done the whole church a service by beginning this letter. The hearsay stops, the real evidence begins to emerge--such as it is.

____
NOTE: I've gone back and edited some of my posts to use more precise language. I've changed none of the content. This one I'm leaving like it is so the conversation with PB makes sense to lurkers. PB believed that I was muddying the waters by the use of the term "hearsay." I meant it in a legal sense, but that nuance might be lost on some lurkers. What we see here on these boards is one person's word against another, but I've spent hours and hours reading through this stuff and the pattern that emerges is this: 3ABN has some stuff to hide, maybe a lot. Probably a lot. That's my interpretation of what I see here and elsewhere on the net, including save3abn.com.

This post has been edited by SoulEspresso: Feb 18 2007, 01:47 AM

[PeacefulBe]

I posted to this effect the other day but I'll say it again (I hope this doesn't count as double posting): unless you're an eyewitness yourself, anything anyone tells you is hearsay--until established in a court of law.

I don't know whether scans of original documents count--legally speaking. And this isn't a court anyway, no such thing as an online court. I'm not a legal person, but I've had enough contact with this sort of stuff to know you have to be careful.

You don't come to the Internet, generally, looking for verifiable evidence on a topic like this. Especially not a message board.
What you can do is look at the various versions of hearsay and try to weigh them. It can be exhausting, reading all the threads; I reviewed them this morning again. I don't pretend to have covered all of them, but the overall picture is that there's a lot of nefarious business at the network, and no one there can seem to refute it.

I say "there" and mean "here." 3ABN folks post here all the time trying to spin the discussion in every way they can, but if they had any good proof they could talk about -- wouldn't it have come up by now? The pregnancy test? Please.

Linda has done the whole church a service by beginning this letter. The hearsay stops, the real evidence begins to emerge--such as it is.

SoulEspresso,

I agree that this isn't an online court and we must take care when attempting to discern what is true and equally take care when we decide that what we see is actual evidence. However, in this particular instance, we have a wealth of information that comes from first-hand eyewitnesses, folks that have actually experienced the saga for themselves. They can provide their pieces of the puzzle and, when looked at as a whole, we can get a pretty good indication of what the true picture is.

To date, no one from the Thompsonville/West Frankfort area has challenged Tommy's emailed confession that is posted over on save3abn.com. So, unless someone brings convincing proof that it is fake I believe the heresay was stopped for that subject and the real evidence is emerging.

This draft copy of Linda's letter that we are now privy to adds to the picture that is developing.

PB

[Observer]

The question I have is why was this letter presented here as something Linda was ready to publish. Implicit in the OP was that Linda had approved the letter. Makes me wonder what else has been presented as "fact" that really isn't.

Linda has been charged with being responsible for just about everything that her supporters say about her. They tell us that we who support her could not know X if Linda had not told us X.

Well, the publication of this draft letter demonstrates that people who support Linda are not acting under her control.

Here is how the situation developed, and the facts became known.

1) Daryl F. of MSDAOL, and I acting independently checked our Linda's website and noted that it had not been posted there. Both of us attempted to make contact with Linda. Daryl succeeded before I made contact with her.

2) When Daryl made the contact, and Linda told him the facts, Daryl contacted me. I attempted to contact Linda, and succeeded. Linda told me, as I related it here.

3) When I discovered that the letter had not been posted on Linda's website, I wondered. However, in the early days of Linda's website, Linda was working with others, as I recall, to keep the website going. As I remember, sometimes her letters, etc. were not posted immediately on her website by the webmaster. So, I thought that might have been the case. But, I wanted to tell Linda about the letter that had been posted on three forums.

4) Then when Daryl informed me of his contact with Linda, I re-doubled my efforts to contact her, and I did.

So that is how this all came about.

[PrincessDrRe]

.....I've never met Linda and have no feelings for her either way, but I am impressed with the tone of her letter. Unlike the vitriol and hate that seeps through every word posted by Danny and his crew, Linda never once bashed her accusers, even though some would say she would be completely justified in doing so, and never condemned them all to hell. Whether she's right or wrong, innocent or guilty, I appreciate her approach to the whole situation.

...because - even if (big IF) she was guilty - she has handled this in a very CHRISTlike way. Danny and the gang on the other hand have talked about her worse than a dog. With which; makes one wonder if they are being CHRISTlike or no....

Aletheia,

It is a curious thing, your behavior.

Do you seriuosly feel you are stating comments that cause a person to think? I don't think that is what you are about.

You might consider what your personal issues really are with Linda, because there is NOTHING productive about your attitude whatsoever.
Your comments only serve to show you angry, bias, and worshipful of a man inspite of the warnings and proof. You have only more pits to fall into at this rate.

This is sad.

And I too can't wait until this situation is resolved, in every area.

[mystery- man]

I am glad that she is finally speaking because hopefully the truth can come out. I think we are at a cross road here, either Linda is a liar or she is telling the truth there is no middle ground. She has express 100% that she is not guilty of adultry. She has asked for the proof that Danny has stated that He had concerning her supposed adultry. Now if Danny does not provide the proof Him and the others at 3abn in my eyesight will forever be tainted as liars and mere pretenders.


I find it very difficult to understand how the board members could dismiss Linda without providing her with the reason as to why. The fact that she must ask for that information is by its very nature suspect to say the least. And why would they not just give her the information before now so she could do what she wanted with it? I have been in many a board meeting where the individual that was being disfellowshiped or put our was not there, in every case we the board sent them a letter explaining the reason we disfellowshiped them and all pertinent information via a certified letter.


I have enjoyed the many years that I watched Danny, Linda on 3abn but I am impartial to either of them. I have also contibuted to them finacially tho I have stopped at this time. It is my prayer that Her request is answered promptly without excuse.

[SoulEspresso]

SoulEspresso,

I agree that this isn't an online court and we must take care when attempting to discern what is true and equally take care when we decide that what we see is actual evidence. However, in this particular instance, we have a wealth of information that comes from first-hand eyewitnesses, folks that have actually experienced the saga for themselves. They can provide their pieces of the puzzle and, when looked at as a whole, we can get a pretty good indication of what the true picture is.

To date, no one from the Thompsonville/West Frankfort area has challenged Tommy's emailed confession that is posted over on save3abn.com. So, unless someone brings convincing proof that it is fake I believe the heresay was stopped for that subject and the real evidence is emerging.

This draft copy of Linda's letter that we are now privy to adds to the picture that is developing.

PB

I'm using hearsay in a technical sense. What I mean is this; unless I'm an eyewitness myself, anything anyone tells me is hearsay to me until it's been established in a court of law and/or by other evidence.

I tip heavily toward believing Linda was wronged (and that there's other nefarious business afoot) because much of the hearsay on this site and on save3abn.com is more credible. Why is it more credible? Because these other people are eyewitnesses and have posted documentation--and some of them have identified themselves, bless them. Those than haven't identified themselves want to keep their jobs, I understand that.

But since I'm not an eyewitness, haven't seen the original copies of the documents, I still consider it hearsay. In other words, it's not hearsay to them because they saw it with their own eyes, but it's hearsay to me when they tell me. Does that make sense?

Another reason I believe Linda was wronged and that there's other nefarious business afoot is the attitude of certain posters who will go to great lengths to defend Danny and try to paint 3ABN in a good light, even when they have to misquote, contradict themselves, etc. They claim to be eyewitnesses, too, but they don't have names and dates like the others do--all they have is the desire to stir things up and defend their boy.

The third reason? AToday's article. AToday is a news magazine, and they can't publish libelous stuff. What they got was established enough by credible sources that they figured their story would stand up in court--not as testimony, but that it wasn't libel the way it was written.

Those of us who find ourselves frustrated with these people are sometimes guilty of a rough spirit--no worse than theirs, mind you, but they're not the Standard (by the way, I haven't seen in any of that in you, PB). I've tried to keep myself in a positive tone but when I catch them in an obvious act of deception I get mad.

It's too bad there's no arbiter in this case. Because it fell through, this tale is going to hit the secular press soon. I bet they're lurking, waiting for as much data as possible before blowing open the story. And they will be merciless, far more than AToday--because they don't care about a church or its reputation.

This post has been edited by SoulEspresso: Feb 16 2007, 06:57 AM

[Observer]

It's too bad there's no arbiter in this case. Because it fell through, this tale is going to hit the secular press soon. I bet they're lurking, waiting for as much data as possible before blowing open the story. And they will be merciless, far more than AToday--because they don't care about a church or its reputation.

A few comments, and you are on target:

I was once asked to write an article for the media. I refused to write one with the focus they wanted.

A major figure in this mess was approached, some time back, and asked to cooperate in writing a an article for major national publication in the seccular media (i.e. not associated with the SDA press). That person also refused.


Some of us believe that once litigation begins, the seccular media will begin to run with this developing story. We think that it is possible that 3-ABN/Danny will soon begin litigation. That litigation may be focused on issues that are not of great interest to the seccular media--trademark issues associated with the website <save31bn>. But, if a lawsuit is filed against Linda, the media may jump on that like a flea jumping on a dog, on a hot summer day. That, in my opinion, would be a public relations disaster for 3-ABN.

Frankly, God is more concerned about truth, righteous, justice, mercy, and other such, than reputation. As 3-ABN is independent, and not a denominational entity, the reputation of the denomination may not suffer as much as some would have us to beleive.

In any case, the reputation of the denomination is less important than is God's standards of righteousness. It is better for us to take damage to reputation than to cover-up wrong doing, if that is the case.

We say that we do not want to destroy 3-ABN. I do not believe that we could do so, if we wanted to do so. 3-ABN is in God's hands for as long as 3-ABN is in compliance with the mission of God for it. If 3-ABN is destroyed, whatever that may mean, it will be because such was in the will of God for it.

The Bible is clear that there are times in human and spiritual history that God does destroy, so to speak, so that God can build anew.

God destroyed the Earth with a flood, so that God could build anew.

God will at a later tieme destroy the Earth with fire so that God can build anew.

God burned Battle Creek so that God could build anew out of the ashes of Battle Creek. That destruction came only after God had sent warnigs by humans, which were rejected.

If God allows 3-ABN to be destroyed, so to speak, there are two possibilities:

a) God can reconstitute 3-ABN again, out of those ashes, and 3-ABN can again fill the role that God gives it.

God can leave it in ashes, as Hope TV may fill the role that God intended for 3-ABN, and for which 3-ABN departed, and went another direction. I am not saying that 3-ABN has done such. I am saying that God is in charge. God will accomplish His purpose with or without 3-ABN, according to 3-ABNs willingness to follow what God lays out for them.