Letter From Linda Shelton @ Www.lindashelton.org - Feb. '07, Linda Shelton demands the evidence be made public Options

[PeacefulBe]

I'm using hearsay in a technical sense. What I mean is this; unless I'm an eyewitness myself, anything anyone tells me is hearsay to me until it's been established in a court of law and/or by other evidence.

I tip heavily toward believing Linda was wronged (and that there's other nefarious business afoot) because much of the hearsay on this site and on save3abn.com is more credible. Why is it more credible? Because these other people are eyewitnesses and have posted documentation--and some of them have identified themselves, bless them. Those than haven't identified themselves want to keep their jobs, I understand that.

But since I'm not an eyewitness, haven't seen the original copies of the documents, I still consider it hearsay. In other words, it's not hearsay to them because they saw it with their own eyes, but it's hearsay to me when they tell me. Does that make sense?

SoulEspresso,

Yes, now I do understand. You are using the word "hearsay" as it applies in a legal setting. My only hesitation is that there are some here who would misread your intended usage, those who have been charging many of us with believing in and spreading rumors. As you'll notice, the common usage of the word "hearsay" would tend to bolster their claims of rumor, gossip and slander, if they did not discern that you were using it in the legal sense.

From TheFreeDictionary:

Hearsay, n.

1. Unverified information heard or received from another; rumor.
2. Law Evidence based on the reports of others rather than the personal knowledge of a witness and therefore generally not admissible as testimony.

Since this forum is not a legal courtroom, the process of building a case for truth is held to a slightly different standard. If Duane Clem tells me that he was a victim of pastoral sexual abuse as a young man by the pastor of his church and then I read the emailed confession Duane received from that very pastor, I believe that I can safely conclude that Duane's testimony is truthful. In this court of public opinion, the use of the word "hearsay" may be a bit of a sticky wicket, diverting the minds of some from the fine points that you are bringing forward.

In the case of those people who have been eye witnesses to certain events, such as sister and HOTY, etc., our job is to determine whether or not they are credible witnesses. If deemed credible, their first-hand testimonies should be able to be viewed as factual. I believe it is an injustice to them to characterize their testimonies as hearsay when repeated by others. Certainly, if we were to be witnesses in a court of law, reporting what we have heard from them would qualify as hearsay - but not here and not in normal every day life.

Another reason I believe Linda was wronged and that there's other nefarious business afoot is the attitude of certain posters who will go to great lengths to defend Danny and try to paint 3ABN in a good light, even when they have to misquote, contradict themselves, etc. They claim to be eyewitnesses, too, but they don't have names and dates like the others do--all they have is the desire to stir things up and defend their boy.

The third reason? AToday's article. AToday is a news magazine, and they can't publish libelous stuff. What they got was established enough by credible sources that they figured their story would stand up in court--not as testimony, but that it wasn't libel the way it was written.

Those of us who find ourselves frustrated with these people are sometimes guilty of a rough spirit--no worse than theirs, mind you, but they're not the Standard (by the way, I haven't seen in any of that in you, PB). I've tried to keep myself in a positive tone but when I catch them in an obvious act of deception I get mad.

It's too bad there's no arbiter in this case. Because it fell through, this tale is going to hit the secular press soon. I bet they're lurking, waiting for as much data as possible before blowing open the story. And they will be merciless, far more than AToday--because they don't care about a church or its reputation.

From all that I have seen lately, you have done a great job keeping your positive tone. I understand how tempting it is to get frustrated or mad at the deceptive practices of some. Just try to keep seeing them through the eyes of Jesus and divert that emotion with a little prayer for them.

PB

[Lee]

If you will look in the Bible-God used others to bring judgement on Israel when they wouldn't repent and do his will. What makes you think God won't bring judgement on 3ABN if they don't come clean. Israel was supposed to do much more than 3abn could ever do-look what happened to them in their history. No human institution has the right to trample on God's people and think they are immune from judgement.

What makes people think God won't bring judgment on them for all the lies/insinuations/insinuations/suggestions and outright blatent gossip against a ministry God set up?
It is a serious thing to go against the will of God--to desire to work against his purposes!

[Panama_Pete]

What makes people think God won't bring judgment on them for all the lies/insinuations/insinuations/suggestions and outright blatent gossip against a ministry God set up?
It is a serious thing to go against the will of God --to desire to work against his purposes!

Yes, it is a serious thing to go against the will of God.

Benny Hinn warns us this way:

"The Holy Ghost is upon me...The day is coming when those that attack us will drop dead. You say, 'What did you say?' I speak this under the anointing of the Spirit. Can I tell you something? Don't touch God's servants; it's deadly...Woe to you that touch God's servants. You're going to pay. 'And the day will come," the Lord said that to me. He said, "The day will come when I will punish instantly. Woe to those that touch my chosen.' They will fear us. Hear this: today they mock us; tomorrow they will fear us." - "Miracle Invasion Rally," Anaheim Convention Center, 11/22/91

Do you think that it would be deadly for me to question Benny Hinn? He is the Lord's chosen, isn't he? If he says the Holy Ghost is upon him, do I have a right to quesiton that?

God told Benny Hinn, right?

If I have relatives that want to climb up on the stage with Benny at the Miracle Invasion "Rally" do I have a right to say anything, or will my opposition to "the chosen" cause my demise?

Notice also that Benny Hinn has "the anointing." Can I question someone who has been anointed?

And remember, when the chosen has been anointed, that's just not for one day, either, as I learned watching 3ABN on a Thursday night.

Things to think about.

This post has been edited by Panama_Pete: Feb 16 2007, 11:53 PM

[Observer]

What makes people think God won't bring judgment on them for all the lies/insinuations/insinuations/suggestions and outright blatent gossip against a ministry God set up?
It is a serious thing to go against the will of God--to desire to work against his purposes!

God established a ministry at Battle Creek. And the people learned that establishment by God did not mean that it would always remain God's ministry doing God's will. It's leadership rejected the leading of God, and went their own way. God sent warnings. They refused to listen. God burned Battle Creek, and our of those ashes built a ministry that was again in conformity to God's will. In that process the leadership either repented of their rebellion or they were removed and replaced.

[PeacefulBe]

God established a ministry at Battle Creek. And the people learned that establishment by God did not mean that it would always remain God's ministry doing God's will. It's leadership rejected the leading of God, and went their own way. God sent warnings. They refused to listen. God burned Battle Creek, and our of those ashes built a ministry that was again in conformity to God's will. In that process the leadership either repented of their rebellion or they were removed and replaced.

This is an excellent example. Thank you.

[PrincessDrRe]

GOD can establish something - (the Garden of Eden) and if those that he "establishes" with don't act right (Adam & Eve) GOD can evict them....

Didn't he do that?

Merinate on dat.

[jene]

GOD can establish something - (the Garden of Eden) and if those that he "establishes" with don't act right (Adam & Eve) GOD can evict them....

Didn't he do that?

Merinate on dat.

You betta preach girl!!!!!

[PrincessDrRe]

You betta preach girl!!!!!

I'm jes sayin'.....you know?

[lurker]

The annointed one is Jesus isn't he? The messiah? The christ? Does that make others who claim to be the annointed one antichrists?

This post has been edited by lurker: Feb 17 2007, 01:24 PM

[watchbird]

The annointed one is Jesus isn't he? The messiah? The christ? Does that make others who claim to be the annointed one antichrists?

Oooooooooooo..... you WENT there..... .......

yes you did..... ........


.......

[sonshineonme]

Oooooooooooo..... you WENT there..... .......

yes you did..... ........
.......

Yes - he did.

You beat me WB. I was thinking of a reply to this thought....

This is not the first time that this "thought" has come to mind.

It is an interesting time we live in.

[watchbird]

Yes - he did.

You beat me WB. I was thinking of a reply to this thought....

This is not the first time that this "thought" has come to mind.

It is an interesting time we live in.

Pentecostals frequently say things that are downright blasphemous if we stop to think about them. See Panama Pete's earlier post where he uses Benny Hinn as an example. Problem is, that they are said in such a pious tone surrounded by so much "God talk" that turning our "thinker" off is almost as automatic as bowing our heads and closing our eyes for prayer. (Or has the Pentecostal influence taken hold so much that we don't bow our heads or close our eyes in prayer any more?)

Maybe we need to move past "Kindergarten Ten Commandments" class content.... where "taking the Lord's name in vain" applies only to using swear words.... and move on to "Basic Principles of Ten Commandment Applications 101"... where it is recognized that "taking the Lord's Name in vain" applies also to a lot of other areas.... including even calling ourselves "Christian" whether or not we live like Christians would. To say nothing of appying to ourselves labels and terms used in scripture for God's specially chosen prophets and messengers.

What a sad day for Adventism when we allow our church to be represented by those who spout Pentecostal jargon that is indistinguishable from the most extreme of popular Pentecostal Televangelists...... and even dare to label it "conservative Adventism"! ..... .....

[Panama_Pete]

Pentecostals frequently say things that are downright blasphemous if we stop to think about them. See Panama Pete's earlier post where he uses Benny Hinn as an example.
What a sad day for Adventism when we allow our church to be represented by those who spout Pentecostal jargon that is indistinguishable from the most extreme of popular Pentecostal Televangelists...... and even dare to label it "conservative Adventism"! ..... .....

And because we don't frequent Pentecostal meetings many of us remain unaware of the source of this Pentecostal jargon. Yes, it truly will be a sad day when our theology becomes indistinguishable from the Pentecostal theology.

[Aletheia]

lurker Posted Today, 02:23 PM:
The annointed one is Jesus isn't he? The messiah? The christ? Does that make others who claim to be the annointed one antichrists?

watchbird Posted Today, 02:46 PM
Oooooooooooo..... you WENT there..... .......

yes you did..... ........

.......

sonshineonme @ Feb 17 2007, 02:54 PM:

Yes - he did.

You beat me WB. I was thinking of a reply to this thought....

This is not the first time that this "thought" has come to mind.

It is an interesting time we live in.

watchbird' 03:28 PM:
Pentecostals frequently say things that are downright blasphemous if we stop to think about them. See Panama Pete's earlier post where he uses Benny Hinn as an example. Problem is, that they are said in such a pious tone surrounded by so much "God talk" that turning our "thinker" off is almost as automatic as bowing our heads and closing our eyes for prayer. (Or has the Pentecostal influence taken hold so much that we don't bow our heads or close our eyes in prayer any more?)

Maybe we need to move past "Kindergarten Ten Commandments" class content.... where "taking the Lord's name in vain" applies only to using swear words.... and move on to "Basic Principles of Ten Commandment Applications 101"... where it is recognized that "taking the Lord's Name in vain" applies also to a lot of other areas.... including even calling ourselves "Christian" whether or not we live like Christians would. To say nothing of appying to ourselves labels and terms used in scripture for God's specially chosen prophets and messengers.

What a sad day for Adventism when we allow our church to be represented by those who spout Pentecostal jargon that is indistinguishable from the most extreme of popular Pentecostal Televangelists...... and even dare to label it "conservative Adventism"! ..... .....

Panama_Pete Posted Today, 03:43 PM:
And because we don't frequent Pentecostal meetings many of us remain unaware of the source of this Pentecostal jargon. Yes, it truly will be a sad day when our theology becomes indistinguishable from the Pentecostal theology.

What about biblical Jargon?

Yes, Jesus is, the Christ, *THE* annointed one, even as he is *THE* light of the world, yet he said:"Ye are the light of the world"

Why?
1Jo 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Every Priest was anointed in the Old Covenant, and in the New?
1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

We are ALL called to the ministry of God, All called to bear the good news, and to be witnesses for our Creator and his truth.


It is sad to me that in seeking to find fault with DS or a3ABN, you mock and ridicule, feigning shock and treating sacred truths like a joke. Petacostalism? It seems plain,"You err, not knowing the scriptures":. Why, rather then denying truth, should these words not apply to yourselves? Our God is Good he is gracious and merciful and gives plentifully to all who come to him in faith.

1Jo 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would [no doubt] have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
20But ye have an unction[anointing] from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
:21I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

1Jo 2:24-27 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life. These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming. If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

2Cr 1:20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us. Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God; Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

Let's stick to and be grounded in The Word.

~ Aletheia

This post has been edited by Aletheia: Feb 17 2007, 05:46 PM

[Richard Sherwin]

So we are all annointed? Then are people saying that Danny is more anointed that the rest of us?

Richard

What about biblical Jargon?




Yes, Jesus is, the Christ, *THE* annointed one, even as he is *THE* light of the world, yet he said":Ye are the light of the world"

Why?
1Jo 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Every Priest was anointed in the Old Covenant, and in the New?
1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

We are ALL called to the ministry of God, All called to bear the good news, and to be witnesses for our Creator and his truth.
It is sad to me that in seeking to find fault with DS or a3ABN, you mock and ridicule, feigning shock and treating sacred truths like a joke. Petacostalism? It seems plain,"You err, not knowing the scriptures":. Why, rather then denying truth, should these words not apply to yourselves? Our God is Good he is gracious and merciful and gives plentifully to all who come to him in faith.

1Jo 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would [no doubt] have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
20But ye have an unction[anointing] from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
:21I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

1Jo 2:24-27 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life. These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming. If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

2Cr 1:20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us. Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God; Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming. If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.
Let's stick to and be grounded in The Word.

~ Aletheia