Mr Joy's Creditability, Owner of save3abn.com Options

[Aletheia]

Instant replay:

Cindy:
Mr Joy answered me finally but I am not clear on whether he wanted me to post it, or not. He said quite a bit but never really managed to address anything specifically which Mr Alfke reported...

He claims he will answer tho-- and "The response will be as direct and specific" and he will "copy the circle in an e-mail response that will go far wider than just BSDA."

Has Mr Joy ever deigned to post here?

Bob:
Aletheia, My thought is you should post the whole thing. I would.

Cindy:
I know, but I am not you.

Bob:
You want me to post it instead?

Cindy:
Why don't you ask Joy, like I did, before doing so?

Bob: -- Posts letter

Cindy:
I do hope it was ok'd by Joy first tho--

And I am somewhat curious how you ended up with a e-mail to me, as I know your address and didn't see it anywhere??


Bob:
#1. We talked about it earlier and I told him I thought you would post the whole thing. He didn't seem to care.

#2. It's a secret. But who knows? Maybe I'll have to tell in a court of law.

Interesting...

I just received this:

----- Original Message -----
From: AUReporter****
To: ~ Cindy ****
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 10:24 PM
Subject: Re: BSDA Topic of discussion


Thank-you again for your inquiry. As I previously stated, I will address the specifics
directly to the accuser. This is biblical and the way it will be done. I will also broadcast
the response to those of interest. You and FHB will be included in any broadcast as I
am sure it will find its way to the BlackSDA bulletin board.

You are free to post anything you wish. I maintain that anything written in the discourse
of debate is fair game and available for all to read. If there is something we would not
want others to read, then dont write it.

As to the context of the response it is as much directed to you as Fallible. I believe it is
time for you to evaluate just where you stand as we enter the next phase. The next phase
is measured to expose even more and far more serious wrongdoing. Some of the evidence
is still in the collection stage, but it is not too late for you and Fallible to raise your voices
for reformation at 3ABN. Maybe you can save us the need to raise the stakes yet again.
Governance will clearly become an issue as we press forward and it would be far better
for those who would bring reproach upon Gods work at 3ABN to step aside

I implore you to join the growing multitude calling for reformation.

Yours in the Blessed Hope

Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter


-------------- Original message --------------
From: "~ Cindy" ****

Mr Joy,

Thank you for your response, It seems your reply is more reactionary to FHB's questions, and J.A.'s claims then informative, as you appear to be denying it, but said nothing really specific in regards to what J.A. was actually reporting, which is rather disapointing.

I noticed you also sent it to another address related to the save3ABN sie, and a address and person or mailing list, which I am not familiar with??? As they are being included in this correspondence, it would be nice to know - at least in a general sense - who they are, and why you included them?

But the main reason for my reply here are these:

1. Out of courtesy, I feel it fair to inform you that as you spoke of FHB, and regarding him; I have forwarded your reply to him, thinking what was said to me should have been more rightfully said to him anyway.

2 I am unclear, as I stated I would post any reply from you, and you wrote " I will direct my response directly to the accuser and copy the circle in an e-mail response that will go far wider than just BSDA" whether you wanted me to post what you sent below on BSDA, or not?

Perhaps you could explain and clarify, before I say or do anything further?

Thanks for your time,

This post has been edited by Aletheia: Mar 28 2007, 10:16 PM

[wwjd]

Why not? If I were him, I would, because I would hope I wouldn't have anything to hide.

But notice I didn't say I tried to talk to Danny.

And as far as I know, I haven't manipulated or spun anything he's said. If you beg to differ, as I've asked before, be specific rather than make vague accusations.

I don't have to. YOu just proved yourself, again, why he won't talk to you. YOu insinuated you talked to DS and anyone just skimming through would perceive it as such. See? Manipulation of words to get people to believe what you want them to believe.

[roxe]

You have to admit, he said something more substantial than Danny et. al. has done when they get asked questions. And if Fallible called him now, he would get quite a few details, far more than I got today when I called Danny et. al.

hmmm...
the above says to me that Danny et. al. = they
they = Danny and his team
so when Pickle says when I called Danny et.al. he means he called a member of Danny's team... it could have been Danny or it could have been someone else on his team...
now, what is so difficult to understand about that?
i'm far from being the smartest cookie in the jar, but i got it... and i'm one of those "anyones" mentioned.

by wwjd
YOu insinuated you talked to DS and anyone just skimming through would perceive it as such. See? Manipulation of words to get people to believe what you want them to believe.

most people here don't skim when they read...
skimming doesn't help the comprehension level...

This post has been edited by roxe: Mar 29 2007, 12:51 AM

[Pickle]

Based on what I recall Gailon telling me yesterday about the car repossession issue:

• Gailon does not own the car in question.
• Gailon co-signed on a loan for a car.
• The owner paid the loan down to $1600.
• The owner had trouble paying off the rest.
• The lender wanted Gailon to pay up.
• Gailon suggested that they half the payments down to $160, and let the owner pay that each month.
• The lender refused.
• Gailon said, "Fine. Take it to court."
• The lender did.
• The court decided that the owner had to pay up, $160 a month.
• The owner has paid that amount, and the car has not been repossessed.

Okay, now if one looks through this thread, the ones who either claim to know about or have talked to sources about an automobile of Gailon's being repossessed are:

• Bystander
• WWJD
• Pickle
• Gailon

If we could insert a poll right here, since this thread is all about credibility, how would you rate the credibility of these individuals based on the information released thus far about the automobile issue?

More importantly, is Danny et. al. so devoid of information to exonerate themselves of the various allegations that they have to resort to discrediting the one(s) who just happen to have talked to the various witnesses? Even if Gailon has no credibility, how does that negate the testimony of all the witnesses?

P.S. I think the above story illustrates the type of thing Gailon was talking about regarding helping others less fortunate. I guess if I get in a jam like that, I'll know who to call if I can't figure out what to do.

[watchbird]

Based on what I recall Gailon telling me yesterday about the car repossession issue:

• Gailon does not own the car in question.
• Gailon co-signed on a loan for a car.
• The owner paid the loan down to $1600.
• The owner had trouble paying off the rest.
• The lender wanted Gailon to pay up.
• Gailon suggested that they half the payments down to $160, and let the owner pay that each month.
• The lender refused.
• Gailon said, "Fine. Take it to court."
• The lender did.
• The court decided that the owner had to pay up, $160 a month.
• The owner has paid that amount, and the car has not been repossessed.

Okay, now if one looks through this thread, the ones who either claim to know about or have talked to sources about an automobile of Gailon's being repossessed are:

• Bystander
• WWJD
• Pickle
• Gailon

If we could insert a poll right here, since this thread is all about credibility, how would you rate the credibility of these individuals based on the information released thus far about the automobile issue?

More importantly, is Danny et. al. so devoid of information to exonerate themselves of the various allegations that they have to resort to discrediting the one(s) who just happen to have talked to the various witnesses? Even if Gailon has no credibility, how does that negate the testimony of all the witnesses?

P.S. I think the above story illustrates the type of thing Gailon was talking about regarding helping others less fortunate. I guess if I get in a jam like that, I'll know who to call if I can't figure out what to do.

There is either another chapter, or other developments since you were told the story. Since Gailon has repeatedly said that anyone who receives mail from him is welcome to post it on any board, here is what he has personally sent out to an undisclosed number of recipients.....

(I am removing the names and addresses as have been requested by both BSDA admins and by many individuals themselves. I also removed the included text from the original question as sent to Gailon Joy. Other than that I am making no change in either the text or the headers.)

From: ********* (G. Arthur Joy)
To: "*******" <************>
Subject: Re: FYI & ????? Regarding Topic Subscription Reply Notification ( BlackSDA )
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 14:49:14 +0000

Simple enough. I co-signed a car loan for an associate who ran into some financial difficulty.
The lender asked me to pay. We insisted that since the loan was nearly repaid that if they
would allow him to make 1/2 payments he could afford the monthly payments until he could
get back on his feet. They refused our offer and I said to go ahead and file suite as I knew
a judge would allow half payments. They did, we stipulated to a judgement and they then
agreed to a payment of one half the original monthly payment which the original borrower
can easilly afford. Unfortunately, the borrower was recently in a motor vehicle accident
where he was struck hard in the rear end and pretty much totalled the vehicle.Therefore,
the insurance carrier will now pay the entire balance off and we will have to find him a new
vehicle. An unfortunate end to a good deal!!!

Perhaps WWJD and the Sheltons would like to assist in the search for a new van for he
and the family? Maybe they could gift one from their donor base, not unlike they have
done for family in the past? Perhaps they would like to take up a collection to assist with
his medical bills and other expenses until he finishes his insurance claim. After all, don't
they mend broken people? think of the good will and community service!!! But alas, I
doubt they will offer the first ounce of assistance to a broken nobody. C'est la vie!!!

Yup, there is a pattern here, we help a lot of people and sometimes get stuck!!! In fact,
quite often, but that wont stop us from helping and getting stuck on occasion. I'm just too
battle hardened to worry about the consequences and have no problem with full discosure.

Frankly with the crisis we are facing in the financial markets, we feel pretty lucky to have
survived what we hope will be the worst of the downturn and financial liquidity crisis. I have
lived through two cylces prior to this and still here. The good news is that with a slow market
I have more time to donate to investigating 3ABN and helping to bring equilibrium to the
battlefield ahead. Unfortunately for WWJD and Danny, courts dont care emuch about how
we handled co-signed loans and unfair land dealers. They do care about the way 501-c-3
organizations handle the money of the stockholders in the pews and the way they discriminate
and retaliate against employees. They also care a great deal about the way officers and directors
carry on personal business deals that represent conflicts of interest and should be disclosed on
the 990's.

So, tell WWJD and Danny happy hunting and we will continue our unrelenting investigation as we
prepare for 3ABN to launch its litigation and we prepare our counterclaims.

Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter

[sonshineonme]

Well, Cindy, joys email looks like a whole lot of do to about nothing. He rambled around for a while, patted himself on the back several times and did his usual MO with slamming 3abn but when the smoke cleared, I didn't see any specific answers.

Cindy, don't forget,....the eagle has landed, the spin is a twirl and up is down.......

Well, while you're spinning, maybe you might like to know the FACTS (once again) of the story.
I asked Gailon about it, this is what he told me. (now, no skimming allowed!)


-------Original Message-------

From: G. Arthur Joy
Date: 3/29/2007 8:13:00 AM
To: ***********
Subject: Re: What's this that WWJD is spewing about??

"Simple enough. I co-signed a car loan for an associate who ran into some financial difficulty.
The lender asked me to pay. We insisted that since the loan was nearly repaid that if they
would allow him to make 1/2 payments he could afford the monthly payments until he could
get back on his feet. They refused our offer and I said to go ahead and file suite as I knew
a judge would allow half payments. They did, we stipulated to a judgement and they then
agreed to a payment of one half the original monthly payment which the original borrower
can easily afford. Unfortunately, the borrower was recently in a motor vehicle accident
where he was struck hard in the rear end and pretty much totalled the vehicle.Therefore,
the insurance carrier will now pay the entire balance off and we will have to find him a new
vehicle. An unfortunate end to a good deal!!!

Perhaps WWJD and the Sheltons would like to assist in the search for a new van for he
and the family? Maybe they could gift one from their donor base, not unlike they have
done for family in the past? Perhaps they would like to take up a collection to assist with
his medical bills and other expenses until he finishes his insurance claim. After all, don't
they mend broken people? think of the good will and community service!!! But alas, I
doubt they will offer the first ounce of assistance to a broken nobody. C'est la vie!!!

Yup, there is a pattern here, we help a lot of people and sometimes get stuck!!! In fact,
quite often, but that wont stop us from helping and getting stuck on occasion. I'm just too
battle hardened to worry about the consequences and have no problem with full disclosure.

Frankly with the crisis we are facing in the financial markets, we feel pretty lucky to have
survived what we hope will be the worst of the downturn and financial liquidity crisis. I have
lived through two cycles prior to this and still here. The good news is that with a slow market
I have more time to donate to investigating 3ABN and helping to bring equilibrium to the
battlefield ahead. Unfortunately for WWJD and Danny, courts don't care much about how
we handled co-signed loans and unfair land dealers. They do care about the way 501-c-3
organizations handle the money of the stockholders in the pews and the way they discriminate
and retaliate against employees. They also care a great deal about the way officers and directors
carry on personal business deals that represent conflicts of interest and should be disclosed on
the 990's.

So, tell WWJD and Danny happy hunting and we will continue our unrelenting investigation as we
prepare for 3ABN to launch its litigation and we prepare our counterclaims.

Gailon Arthur Joy"

[LadyTenor]

This issue of the car seems very petty to me! Now it appears to me that the original issue at hand has been clouded with a lot of details that are ancillary at best and irrelevant at worst.

A lot of this talk is unproductive, in this and many other threads. It is possible that the truth of this matter many never be revealed on this earth, making a lot of these spats a colossial waste of time.

[PeacefulBe]

This issue of the car seems very petty to me! Now it appears to me that the original issue at hand has been clouded with a lot of details that are ancillary at best and irrelevant at worst.

A lot of this talk is unproductive, in this and many other threads. It is possible that the truth of this matter many never be revealed on this earth, making a lot of these spats a colossial waste of time.

LT,

Petty pretty well pegs it! It seems that perhaps a little research was lacking as well.

On one hand you may be right about a lot of these spats being wastes of time. However, during the "heat" of these spats, one can sometimes learn a great deal about the tactics and motivations of some of the players, IMO.

[sister]

LT,

Petty pretty well pegs it! It seems that perhaps a little research was lacking as well.

On one hand you may be right about a lot of these spats being wastes of time. However, during the "heat" of these spats, one can sometimes learn a great deal about the tactics and motivations of some of the players, IMO.

I agree, this thread says more about the creditability and tactics of Fallible Humanbeing and Co. than it does about Mr. Joy.

[PeacefulBe]

Let's just look at the juicy tidbit of the "car repossession" in hindsight now.

March 26, 2007, Bystander gets the ball rolling by saying:

my sources have told me about a judgement against Mr. Joy's automobile resulting in, repossession

(For full text of post Click Here.)

March 28, 2007, wwjd clearly states that he has seen the documentation:

You will notice pickle never answered about the car repossession. I saw a copy of that judgement today so it did happen or is going to happen.

(For full text of post Click Here..)

So, Gailon Arthur Joy has explained his version of the car repossession story. It appears to differ from what Bystander and wwjd have represented it to be. We have yet to see the judgement that wwjd claims he saw on March 26th. Did wwjd read the judgement to prove to himself that the repossession "did happen or is going to happen"? Or did he take someone's word for it?

wwjd, show us who is telling the truth in this situation. Post the copy of the judgement that you saw. Otherwise, perhaps you owe some folks an apology.

[erik]

Let's just look at the juicy tidbit of the "car repossession" in hindsight now.

March 26, 2007, Bystander gets the ball rolling by saying:

(For full text of post Click Here.)

March 28, 2007, wwjd clearly states that he has seen the documentation:

(For full text of post Click Here..)

So, Gailon Arthur Joy has explained his version of the car repossession story. It appears to differ from what Bystander and wwjd have represented it to be. We have yet to see the judgement that wwjd claims he saw on March 26th. Did wwjd read the judgement to prove to himself that the repossession "did happen or is going to happen"? Or did he take someone's word for it?

wwjd, show us who is telling the truth in this situation. Post the copy of the judgement that you saw. Otherwise, perhaps you owe some folks an apology.

PB,

I again wonder what does it matter if Mr. Joy car was in fact repossessed, so the man fall in to some hard money times, it happens to many folks.

BUt how does that remove the simple fact that Tommy has dome things with at least 5-7 young men and has never really owned up to that.

Or how does it change the simple fact at this point Danny is living in sin with Brandi, It certainly looks that way from here.

Erik

[LadyTenor]

However, during the "heat" of these spats, one can sometimes learn a great deal about the tactics and motivations of some of the players, IMO.

And those were made plain as day long ago!

[PeacefulBe]

PB,

I again wonder what does it matter if Mr. Joy car was in fact repossessed, so the man fall in to some hard money times, it happens to many folks.

It matters if two of those trying to discredit Mr. Gailon Joy are misrepresenting the facts of this "car repossession" story in the very thread where other unproven and, at this point, inflamatory "hearsay" claims are being leveled to try to do the same. Did you read Mr. Joy's email that was posted here twice this morning? Regarding the repossession charge he stated:

Simple enough. I co-signed a car loan for an associate who ran into some financial difficulty.
The lender asked me to pay. We insisted that since the loan was nearly repaid that if they
would allow him to make 1/2 payments he could afford the monthly payments until he could
get back on his feet. They refused our offer and I said to go ahead and file suite as I knew
a judge would allow half payments. They did, we stipulated to a judgement and they then
agreed to a payment of one half the original monthly payment which the original borrower
can easily afford. Unfortunately, the borrower was recently in a motor vehicle accident
where he was struck hard in the rear end and pretty much totalled the vehicle.Therefore,
the insurance carrier will now pay the entire balance off and we will have to find him a new
vehicle. An unfortunate end to a good deal!!!

According to Mr. Joy, the vehicle that Mr. Joy co-signed for was not repossessed. The judge reduced the payments so the man could make the payments himself.

We are still waiting for a rebuttal of Gailon's statement by those two members who brought up the claim against him; Bystander and wwjd. I do agree with you that even if Gailon had had a car repossessed at some point in his life it wouldn't undermine the evidence he has brought up about the 3abn saga.

BUt how does that remove the simple fact that Tommy has dome things with at least 5-7 young men and has never really owned up to that.

Or how does it change the simple fact at this point Danny is living in sin with Brandi, It certainly looks that way from here.

Erik

Perhaps it is the evidence such as the allegations against Tommy that have driven Bystander and wwjd to desperately try to undermine the credibility of Gailon Joy and Bob Pickle. Unfortunately, so far, the mud they are tossing is flying back into their own faces.

[erik]

It matters if two of those trying to discredit Mr. Gailon Joy are misrepresenting the facts of this "car repossession" story in the very thread where other unproven and, at this point, inflamatory "hearsay" claims are being leveled to try to do the same. Did you read Mr. Joy's email that was posted here twice this morning? Regarding the repossession charge he stated:

According to Mr. Joy, the vehicle that Mr. Joy co-signed for was not repossessed. The judge reduced the payments so the man could make the payments himself.

We are still waiting for a rebuttal of Gailon's statement by those two members who brought up the claim against him; Bystander and wwjd. I do agree with you that even if Gailon had had a car repossessed at some point in his life it wouldn't undermine the evidence he has brought up about the 3abn saga.
Perhaps it is the evidence such as the allegations against Tommy that have driven Bystander and wwjd to desperately try to undermine the credibility of Gailon Joy and Bob Pickle. Unfortunately, so far, the mud they are tossing is flying back into their own faces.

Yes,

I did notice his side of the story, sounds pretty responsible to me.

My point was just that i do not see how this whole thread makes the Pro danny side look any better.

When you are playing against the truth it just is a losing game.

Erik

[PeacefulBe]

Yes,

I did notice his side of the story, sounds pretty responsible to me.

My point was just that i do not see how this whole thread makes the Pro danny side look any better.

When you are playing against the truth it just is a losing game.Erik

Right!