 Pondering Visiting Pastor Doug |
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 Apr 24 2007, 05:36 PM
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#16
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 500 + posts  Group: Financial Donor Posts: 630 Joined: 8-August 04 From: Over here Member No.: 529 Gender: f  |
QUOTE(Eirene @ Apr 24 2007, 01:09 PM) [snapback]192769[/snapback] Eirene said: And what is it you think Doug could or would do? I will go through this one more time. Eirene said: There were never any charges filed against TS. Fran said: Does this mean TS is innocent? Eirene said: No coverup at 3abn ever even came close to being proven, and Fran said: This proves what? Eirene said: TS is no longer there and hasn't been for months. So, Fran said: And this is relevant how? Eirene said: What would any of this have to do with Doug and AF? Fran said: Now that is the $1,000,000.00 question! Eirene said: Should I even have to add, again, that Doug has been clear that Danny will continue to run 3abn and Doug will continue to run amazing facts. Fran said: We don't mind your repetitivness. Eirene said: THERE ARE SAFEGUARDS IN PLACE TO ENSURE THAT ONE MINISTRY CAN'T TAKE OVER THE OTHER. (Fran said: See below.) You sound worried. Are you? -------------------- The greatest want of the world is the want of men-- men who will not be bought or sold, men who in their inmost souls are true and honest, men who do not fear to call sin by its right name, men whose conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole, men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall. {Ed 57.3}
But such a character is not the result of accident; it is not due to special favors or endowments of Providence. A noble character is the result of self-discipline, of the subjection of the lower to the higher nature--the surrender of self for the service of love to God and man. {Ed 57.4} |
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Apr 24 2007, 05:55 PM
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#17
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 5,000 + posts  Group: Administrator Posts: 11,157 Joined: 21-July 03 From: Northern California Member No.: 47 Gender: f |
And what is it you think Doug could or would do? I will go through this one more time. There were never any charges filed against TS. No coverup at 3abn ever even came close to being proven, and TS is no longer there and hasn't been for months.
So, you are another one that believes that what TS was doing was alright as long he didn't exatly get caught at it, the young men were over 17 and consenting adults, etc? No proven coverup doesn't mean there wasn't one, just one done all too well. So, what would any of this have to do with Doug and AF? Should I even have to add, again, that Doug has been clear that Danny will continue to run 3abn and Doug will continue to run amazing facts. THERE ARE SAFEGUARDS IN PLACE TO ENSURE THAT ONE MINISTRY CAN'T TAKE OVER THE OTHER. And you know this because you are Danny or Doug, presently on either board, GM? Or is this what you were told. Everyone was told that there were no plans, at present, for one to take over the other, but we also know they basically made the annoucement with no plan. Anything can happen. Like I said, you and the others are being fed information on the basis that you believe this is a ministry, and you believe in that ministry. This merger is a corporate move.I do, however, agree that htere is little that DB can do, besides maybe back out of the deal, since nothing seems to be concrete............ But also his response would tell something about his character -------------------- TTFN
Di And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose---Romans 8:28 A great many people believe they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices.-- William James It is better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt.- Mark Twain |
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Apr 24 2007, 07:27 PM
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#18
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 Advanced Member  Group: Members Posts: 425 Joined: 17-March 07 Member No.: 3,207 Gender: m |
WOW that is hard to read.
QUOTE(Fran @ Apr 24 2007, 05:36 PM) [snapback]192813[/snapback] You sound worried. Are you? -------------------- Thess. 2:16-17 - Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and our God and Father, who has loved us and given us everlasting consolation and good hope by grace, comfort your hearts and establish you in every good word and work."
[quote: fine art] "Instead we seem to be using sensationalism, emotionalism, moving lights and motivational speakers that are prepared to manipulate, by well chosen words, the minds of the listeners. It used to be, messages that were given by our pioneers were wrenched from the depths of the heart by the Holy Spirit. Humor was not added to get that laugh of entertainment. Drama was not introduced behind the sacred desk to glue your attention. Man's Rationale has replaced a cry for God's wisdom." "How To Be Free From Bitterness" ( booklet written by Jim Wilson of Community Christian Ministries, Moscow, Idaho - E-mail: ccm@moscow.com ) |
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Apr 25 2007, 07:29 AM
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#19
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 500 + posts Group: Banned Posts: 655 Joined: 6-December 06 From: USA Member No.: 2,621 Gender: f |
QUOTE(princessdi @ Apr 24 2007, 07:55 PM) [snapback]192815[/snapback] And what is it you think Doug could or would do? I will go through this one more time. There were never any charges filed against TS. No coverup at 3abn ever even came close to being proven, and TS is no longer there and hasn't been for months. So, you are another one that believes that what TS was doing was alright as long he didn't exatly get caught at it, the young men were over 17 and consenting adults, etc? No proven coverup doesn't mean there wasn't one, just one done all too well. The absence of one is not proof of the other. The "3ABN investigators" (Not) will have their day in court. Until then, for your own sake, please try and keep an open mind. This post has been edited by Aletheia: Apr 25 2007, 07:30 AM -------------------- And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD. .. in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD. Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him. Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD. Lev 19:12-18 Pro 26:20 Where no wood is, there the fire goeth out: so where there is no talebearer, the strife ceaseth. |
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Apr 25 2007, 08:48 AM
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#20
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Advanced Member Group: Financial Donor Posts: 334 Joined: 7-January 07 Member No.: 2,782 Gender: m |
QUOTE(Aletheia @ Apr 25 2007, 05:29 AM) [snapback]192872[/snapback] The absence of one is not proof of the other. The "3ABN investigators" (Not) will have their day in court. Until then, for your own sake, please try and keep an open mind. Aletheia, IF you think that Going to Court will Clear TS, that is a wild joke His own words have hung him. Also it sure is taking a long time to get to court, maybe the brilliant lawyers are not so sure of the case so they are waiting to see if the "guilty " will finally do something they can be nailed for. Erik |
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Apr 25 2007, 09:17 AM
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#21
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500 + posts Group: Banned Posts: 655 Joined: 6-December 06 From: USA Member No.: 2,621 Gender: f |
QUOTE(erik @ Apr 25 2007, 10:48 AM) [snapback]192884[/snapback] Aletheia, IF you think that Going to Court will Clear TS, that is a wild joke His own words have hung him. Also it sure is taking a long time to get to court, maybe the brilliant lawyers are not so sure of the case so they are waiting to see if the "guilty " will finally do something they can be nailed for. Erik Clarification. I was referring to Di claiming " No proven coverup doesn't mean there wasn't one, just one done all too well." when I said, the absense of one is not proof of the other. The self proclaimed invstigators and reporters accusing 3ABN of engaging in a coverup, will have their day in court regarding their libel.. You can believe that or not, as you choose. -------------------- And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD. .. in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD. Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him. Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD. Lev 19:12-18 Pro 26:20 Where no wood is, there the fire goeth out: so where there is no talebearer, the strife ceaseth. |
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Apr 25 2007, 09:32 AM
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#22
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QUOTE(erik @ Apr 25 2007, 08:48 AM) [snapback]192884[/snapback] Aletheia, IF you think that Going to Court will Clear TS, that is a wild joke His own words have hung him. Also it sure is taking a long time to get to court, maybe the brilliant lawyers are not so sure of the case so they are waiting to see if the "guilty " will finally do something they can be nailed for. Erik You obviously misunderstand. Going to court as about a lawsuit against others that have slandered, lied, accused, etc. The "guilty parties" are the ones in the hot seat in a case like this because they have to prove every allegation they have made, beyond a reasonable doubt, or be held accountable in a court of law. Suits are designed to address certain items and certain individuals. You can certainly bring more than one suit but usually, the causes and people are kept seperate. There are exceptions. In the most winning and clear cut case, it takes months for the attorneys to sludge through the court orders, injunctions, signatures and all the legal mumbo jumbo in general. Once the suit is filed and the papers are served it could drag out in court over years. Very hard on the person being sued and extremely costly for their defense. Erik you seem a little naive on the court system and more than a little confused on what will be taking place. In this type of suit, 3abn will not have to defend themselves, they are bringing the suit. The ones who have defamed and made false allegations are the ones that will have to defend themselves and if everything that they have said, cannot be proven, they will find themselves in a world of trouble. |
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Apr 25 2007, 10:00 AM
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#23
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 Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 264 Joined: 23-April 07 Member No.: 3,427 Gender: f |
QUOTE(Eirene @ Apr 25 2007, 09:32 AM) [snapback]192892[/snapback] You obviously misunderstand. Going to court as about a lawsuit against others that have slandered, lied, accused, etc. The "guilty parties" are the ones in the hot seat in a case like this because they have to prove every allegation they have made, beyond a reasonable doubt, or be held accountable in a court of law. Suits are designed to address certain items and certain individuals. You can certainly bring more than one suit but usually, the causes and people are kept seperate. There are exceptions. In the most winning and clear cut case, it takes months for the attorneys to sludge through the court orders, injunctions, signatures and all the legal mumbo jumbo in general. Once the suit is filed and the papers are served it could drag out in court over years. Very hard on the person being sued and extremely costly for their defense. Erik you seem a little naive on the court system and more than a little confused on what will be taking place. In this type of suit, 3abn will not have to defend themselves, they are bringing the suit. The ones who have defamed and made false allegations are the ones that will have to defend themselves and if everything that they have said, cannot be proven, they will find themselves in a world of trouble. Before I begin....your font is very hard on the eyes...could you change it please? Now it is a world of trouble...first a boat load of trouble and now a world of trouble? 3ABN and those who are guilty of any wrong doing will have to defend themselves in the most important court of all.... not only the one here in this world if they sue. One favorite Bible text is "your sin will find you out"....we cannot escape His open book of all of our doings whether they be good or for evil. When and if DS and his crew sue then let the truth be known for it surely will be out there for all to see ....even the media. Then let our worldly courtsystem determine legally what is to be done but we should all be prepared for the real and final judgement that is to come. Those who have been involved in standing up for truth and have had the courage to post it all on www.save3ABN for all of us to see have done a great thing for the little circles of concerned church members who usually have no voice. I say we all should be willing to stand up and stop the sweeping stuff under the rug. Is it not true....The truth shall make us FREE! Let us not live in fear! |
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Apr 25 2007, 10:08 AM
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#24
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 5,000 + posts Group: Charter Member Posts: 6,131 Joined: 20-July 03 Member No.: 15 Gender: m |
QUOTE(Eirene @ Apr 25 2007, 11:32 AM) [snapback]192892[/snapback] Erik you seem a little naive on the court system and more than a little confused on what will be taking place. In this type of suit, 3abn will not have to defend themselves, they are bringing the suit. The ones who have defamed and made false allegations are the ones that will have to defend themselves and if everything that they have said, cannot be proven, they will find themselves in a world of trouble. You are the one who is naive vis a vis the court system... the plaintiff has the burden of proof in a civil case, not the defendant. The only difference between civil and criminal cases is that the height of the bar is lower in civil cases; there is a "preponderance of the evidence standard" versus a "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard and if there is a jury trial, the vote by the jury needs not be unanimous... but the defendant is not considered guilty and required to prove himself otherwise in any american court. In His service, Mr. J -------------------- There is no one more dangerous than one who thinks he knows God with a mind that is ignorant - Dr. Lewis Anthony
You’ve got to be real comfortable in your own skin to survive the animosity your strength evokes in people you'd hope would like you. - Dr. Renita Weems |
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Apr 25 2007, 10:14 AM
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#25
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 Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 356 Joined: 25-December 06 From: West Frankfort, IL Member No.: 2,722 Gender: m |
QUOTE(awesumtenor @ Apr 25 2007, 11:08 AM) [snapback]192907[/snapback] You are the one who is naive vis a vis the court system... the plaintiff has the burden of proof in a civil case, not the defendant. The only difference between civil and criminal cases is that the height of the bar is lower in civil cases; there is a "preponderance of the evidence standard" versus a "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard and if there is a jury trial, the vote by the jury needs not be unanimous... but the defendant is not considered guilty and required to prove himself otherwise in any american court. In His service, Mr. J Mr. J, please don't muddle up this issue with facts. It detracts from the fear and intimidation Eirene has been sent here to instill. 
-------------------- Duane Clem
It's not about religion, it's about a relationship. Gems of Wisdom "Lisa and Ronda are not Danny's biological father." -- wwjd, 2/8/07 "Watchbird, The facts prove the above lie." -- wwjd, 2/13/07 "Another lie that can be proven..." -- Bystander, 3/18/07 "The thing about lies is they can be proven." -- Aletheia, 3/22/07 "I am not here to argue" -- Aletheia, 4/24/07 "She didn't move to 3ABN, she moved to Illinois" -- Aletheia, 4/25/07 "Hope is liberal. 3abn is not." -- steffan, 6/9/07 "Danny Shelton does not decide what goes on the air, period." -- appletree, 8/22/07 http://www.save-3abn.com/ http://www.investigating3abn.info/ http://rescue3abn.blog.com/ http://www.abundantrest.org/?p=74 http://abundantrest.org/2007/02/18/3abn-sa...ons-retirement/ http://anewsabbathschool.blogspot.com/2006...ain-wrecks.html http://cafesda.blogspot.com/2006/08/atoday...bn-news_21.html http://www.atoday.com/email/2007/02/12/ http://spectrummagazine.typepad.com/the_sp...eans_and_e.html |
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Apr 25 2007, 10:24 AM
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#26
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500 + posts Group: Banned Posts: 655 Joined: 6-December 06 From: USA Member No.: 2,621 Gender: f |
QUOTE(awesumtenor @ Apr 25 2007, 12:08 PM) [snapback]192907[/snapback] You are the one who is naive vis a vis the court system... the plaintiff has the burden of proof in a civil case, not the defendant. The only difference between civil and criminal cases is that the height of the bar is lower in civil cases; there is a "preponderance of the evidence standard" versus a "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard and if there is a jury trial, the vote by the jury needs not be unanimous... but the defendant is not considered guilty and required to prove himself otherwise in any american court. In His service, Mr. J Just making claims again and again doesn't establish them as truth. QUOTE LIBEL AND SLANDER occur when a person or entity communicates false information that damages the reputation of another person or entity. Slander occurs when the false and defamatory communication is spoken and heard. Libel occurs when the false and defamatory communication is written and seen. The laws governing libel and slander, which are collectively known as DEFAMATION, are identical. A plaintiff who wishes to sue an individual or entity for libel or slander has the burden of proving four claims to a court: First, the plaintiff must show that the DEFENDANT communicated a defamatory statement. Second, the plaintiff must show that the statement was published or communicated to at least one other person besides the plaintiff. Third, the plaintiff must show that the communication was about the plaintiff and that another party receiving the communication could identify the plaintiff as the subject of the defamatory message. Fourth, the plaintiff must show that the communication injured the plaintiff's reputation. There are four general defenses to slander and libel. Truth is an absolute defense. Consent by the plaintiff for the publication of the defamatory statement is a defense. Accidental publication of the statement is a defense. Finally, the statements of certain defendants in certain circumstances, such as lawyers, judges, jurors, and witnesses, are protected from defamation for PUBLIC POLICY reasons. This type of protection is known as privilege. Source: Encyclopedia of Everyday Law Seems to me, merely citing the save 3abn website or even this forum's posts should satisfy the Plaintiffs claims... But in any case as Danny Shelton already published during the interview on Club Adventist, in answer to one oof the questions, it's already been filed so they have already met their burden with the court. Obviously none here can use the last 3 defenses, so that leaves you all trying to prove all your claims, and accusations to be absolute truth... This post has been edited by Aletheia: Apr 25 2007, 10:37 AM -------------------- And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD. .. in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD. Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him. Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD. Lev 19:12-18 Pro 26:20 Where no wood is, there the fire goeth out: so where there is no talebearer, the strife ceaseth. |
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Apr 25 2007, 10:34 AM
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#27
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5,000 + posts Group: Charter Member Posts: 6,131 Joined: 20-July 03 Member No.: 15 Gender: m |
QUOTE(Aletheia @ Apr 25 2007, 12:24 PM) [snapback]192911[/snapback] Just making claims again and again doesn't establish them as truth. Merely citing the save 3abn website or even this forum's posts should satisfy the Plaintiffs claims... Obviously none here can use the last 3 defenses, so that leaves you all trying to prove all your claims, and accusations to be absolute truth... You need to re-take reading comprehension, Cindy... QUOTE A plaintiff who wishes to sue an individual or entity for libel or slander has the burden of proving four claims to a court: First, the plaintiff must show that the DEFENDANT communicated a defamatory statement. Second, the plaintiff must show that the statement was published or communicated to at least one other person besides the plaintiff. Third, the plaintiff must show that the communication was about the plaintiff and that another party receiving the communication could identify the plaintiff as the subject of the defamatory message. Fourth, the plaintiff must show that the communication injured the plaintiff's reputation. Notice how the burden of proof is on the *plaintiff* and not the defendant... The defendant does not have to show a thing if he chooses not to... You're gonna have to do better than this, Cindy. In His service, Mr. J -------------------- There is no one more dangerous than one who thinks he knows God with a mind that is ignorant - Dr. Lewis Anthony
You’ve got to be real comfortable in your own skin to survive the animosity your strength evokes in people you'd hope would like you. - Dr. Renita Weems |
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Apr 25 2007, 10:38 AM
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#28
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 356 Joined: 25-December 06 From: West Frankfort, IL Member No.: 2,722 Gender: m |
QUOTE(awesumtenor @ Apr 25 2007, 11:34 AM) [snapback]192913[/snapback] You need to re-take reading comprehension, Cindy... Notice how the burden of proof is on the *plaintiff* and not the defendant... The defendant does not have to show a thing if he chooses not to... You're gonna have to do better than this, Cindy. In His service, Mr. J Does anyone else sense that the desperation factor seems to have been ratcheted up a few notches since the merger ploy isn't scaring anyone away from questioning alleged wrongdoings? -------------------- Duane Clem
It's not about religion, it's about a relationship. Gems of Wisdom "Lisa and Ronda are not Danny's biological father." -- wwjd, 2/8/07 "Watchbird, The facts prove the above lie." -- wwjd, 2/13/07 "Another lie that can be proven..." -- Bystander, 3/18/07 "The thing about lies is they can be proven." -- Aletheia, 3/22/07 "I am not here to argue" -- Aletheia, 4/24/07 "She didn't move to 3ABN, she moved to Illinois" -- Aletheia, 4/25/07 "Hope is liberal. 3abn is not." -- steffan, 6/9/07 "Danny Shelton does not decide what goes on the air, period." -- appletree, 8/22/07 http://www.save-3abn.com/ http://www.investigating3abn.info/ http://rescue3abn.blog.com/ http://www.abundantrest.org/?p=74 http://abundantrest.org/2007/02/18/3abn-sa...ons-retirement/ http://anewsabbathschool.blogspot.com/2006...ain-wrecks.html http://cafesda.blogspot.com/2006/08/atoday...bn-news_21.html http://www.atoday.com/email/2007/02/12/ http://spectrummagazine.typepad.com/the_sp...eans_and_e.html |
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Apr 25 2007, 10:40 AM
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#29
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 500 + posts Group: Members Posts: 696 Joined: 20-February 07 Member No.: 3,035 Gender: m |
You gotta remember awesumtenor, this is the same group that doesn't have a clue what 3abn was doing wrong when they lost the case against the state of Illinois. And they still don't.
-------------------- Disclaimer Notice: You are hereby cautioned that the information contained within these posts are for the sole purpose of provoking thought, adding fair comment on matters of public interest, and not providing factual information. These posts do not reflect the actual thoughts or intentions of the person writing under this username since said person is not in any position to know. No effort has been made to ensure the accuracy of any personal view, opinion, or hyperbole presented. Therefore, by disclosing, copying, or distributing these posts to others, such information must subsequently be confirmed in writing, signed and dated, by the actual person, or persons, posting behind username LaurenceD.
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Apr 25 2007, 10:42 AM
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#30
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500 + posts Group: Banned Posts: 655 Joined: 6-December 06 From: USA Member No.: 2,621 Gender: f |
QUOTE(ex3ABNemployee @ Apr 25 2007, 12:38 PM) [snapback]192914[/snapback] Does anyone else sense that the desperation factor seems to have been ratcheted up a few notches since the merger ploy isn't scaring anyone away from questioning alleged wrongdoings? Duane, please try to get a grip. The merge isn't about you accusers, in any way, shape, or form.. It's about becoming more effective in spreading the 3 angls messages, which is going on despite you all. This post has been edited by Aletheia: Apr 25 2007, 10:44 AM -------------------- And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD. .. in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD. Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him. Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD. Lev 19:12-18 Pro 26:20 Where no wood is, there the fire goeth out: so where there is no talebearer, the strife ceaseth. |
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