Maybe, It Is More Smoke Then Fire? Options

[PeacefulBe]

NW,

I get your point! Will there be those successful CEO's, ASI members and otherwise, who will be expecting a plush ride to heaven but will instead hear solemn words below echoing in their ears on that day?

Matthew 7:21 - 23:

21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23 Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

[Observer]

Folks, I would like to share some concerns regarding some of the posts that I am reading here. These are simply my personal opinions and concerns. Of course they probably are not 100 per-cent correct.

1) This section has served a noble purpose well. A diverse group of people have gathered here in BSDA united in a central focus--3-ABN, Danny Shelton, and Linda Shelton. I will suggest that we are an example to the world of a very diverse group of people who have generally worked together while maintaining that central focus. We have not split off into splinter groups who have attacked each other.

2) Throughout the history of the development of our denomination, we have seen sin, disregard of God's instruction, challenges, and the working of God. Those who know our history certainly have sin and corruption to point out. It is there. I am concerned that a focus on some of this in that past, may serve to splinter us, and to take us away from our central focus.

There are some events that I personally believe we should never forget. I spent a week at the General Conference Headquarters in May. During that time the group I was with toured the REVIEW. Several of us used that opportunity to remind the leadership who was taking us on that tour of the time when an African American employee of the General Conference could not eat in the GC cafeteria, with the rest of the employees, and of the death of the African American due to refused medical treatment at Washington Sanatarium. There are part of our history that should never be forgotten.

However, I do not have the emotional energy to involve myself in every scandal and misdeed that I have been aware of during the past 50 years in the Church. If I were to do so today, it would divert my time and effort from my present central focus.

In addition, I will suggest that an increased focus on some of thes past issues will serve to divide us.

3) As I read some of the posts that have been made, I find that I often have agreement with them, but, often I do not agree with everypoint that is made. I do not believe that every representation is accurate. Yet, I do not want to divide the effort that I am putting into this 3-ABN mess to some of these other issues.

4) Here is what may be happening: With the legal order to impound the records, some may feel that we are in a holding pattern. In one sense we are in a holding pattern. With this in mind, some may have the energy to fight other dragons. I will suggest that the holding pattern is only temporary. We will again need our energy for whatever direction this battle takes. Let us use this time to regroup.

[YogusBearus]

Folks, I would like to share some concerns regarding some of the posts that I am reading here. These are simply my personal opinions and concerns. Of course they probably are not 100 per-cent correct.

1) This section has served a noble purpose well. A diverse group of people have gathered here in BSDA united in a central focus--3-ABN, Danny Shelton, and Linda Shelton. I will suggest that we are an example to the world of a very diverse group of people who have generally worked together while maintaining that central focus. We have not split off into splinter groups who have attacked each other.

2) Throughout the history of the development of our denomination, we have seen sin, disregard of God's instruction, challenges, and the working of God. Those who know our history certainly have sin and corruption to point out. It is there. I am concerned that a focus on some of this in that past, may serve to splinter us, and to take us away from our central focus.

There are some events that I personally believe we should never forget. I spent a week at the General Conference Headquarters in May. During that time the group I was with toured the REVIEW. Several of us used that opportunity to remind the leadership who was taking us on that tour of the time when an African American employee of the General Conference could not eat in the GC cafeteria, with the rest of the employees, and of the death of the African American due to refused medical treatment at Washington Sanatarium. There are part of our history that should never be forgotten.

However, I do not have the emotional energy to involve myself in every scandal and misdeed that I have been aware of during the past 50 years in the Church. If I were to do so today, it would divert my time and effort from my present central focus.

In addition, I will suggest that an increased focus on some of thes past issues will serve to divide us.

3) As I read some of the posts that have been made, I find that I often have agreement with them, but, often I do not agree with everypoint that is made. I do not believe that every representation is accurate. Yet, I do not want to divide the effort that I am putting into this 3-ABN mess to some of these other issues.

4) Here is what may be happening: With the legal order to impound the records, some may feel that we are in a holding pattern. In one sense we are in a holding pattern. With this in mind, some may have the energy to fight other dragons. I will suggest that the holding pattern is only temporary. We will again need our energy for whatever direction this battle takes. Let us use this time to regroup.

Gregory, if your point is that it might be better to have discussion tangents such as the Rodney Vega/Adventist Health System fiasco discussed in a different thread, I have no argument. If you are suggesting that we don't collectively have the resources or the interest to look at abuses other than 3abn, I absolutely disagree. I'm sure we all have our pet issues that we feel are most worthy of support. I just don't think we need to limit the scope of our interest and/or discussion.

I apologize in advance if I've misread your post.

-bear

[watchbird]

Gregory, if your point is that it might be better to have discussion tangents such as the Rodney Vega/Adventist Health System fiasco discussed in a different thread, I have no argument. If you are suggesting that we don't collectively have the resources or the interest to look at abuses other than 3abn, I absolutely disagree. I'm sure we all have our pet issues that we feel are most worthy of support. I just don't think we need to limit the scope of our interest and/or discussion.

I apologize in advance if I've misread your post.

-bear

I would say not only in another thread, but also in another forum. I agree with Gregory. This forum was created for the purpose of containing information on the 3abn Saga in one place where those who wished to learn what has been said could come and read. And the more we add unrelated topics in this forum, the more it is unnecessarily made cumersome and difficult for new comers to find material relative to 3abn and difficult for old-times to be able to review and compare old material with new. And this is true no matter how great the urgency or how trivial the light-hearted comments.

The admins here have been quite cooperative in moving much of the distractive material. I hope they will soon see this block of posts and move them to an appropriately titled thread in an appropriate forum so that those who are interested in these topics may have access to them and be able to continue discussing them, and those who come to find information about 3abn will be able to do so more easily.

Thanks much admins!

[PeacefulBe]

Gregory, if your point is that it might be better to have discussion tangents such as the Rodney Vega/Adventist Health System fiasco discussed in a different thread, I have no argument. If you are suggesting that we don't collectively have the resources or the interest to look at abuses other than 3abn, I absolutely disagree. I'm sure we all have our pet issues that we feel are most worthy of support. I just don't think we need to limit the scope of our interest and/or discussion.

I apologize in advance if I've misread your post.

-bear

Plus, it would be a mistake to shrug it off if one has the burden to tackle that particular dragon, wherever the thread might be located.

PB

[Snoopy]

PB, I have not yet traced the entire Rodney Vega story but that is not what my post is about.

I personally resent how many in this country hijack issues in the name of their brand of Christianity. However, the spin here by the NAD is interesting to me and I can’t help but wonder what the ultimate follow up was? I am also angered by the salaries paid to the CEOs and others in our institutions when I know many older SDAs have been forced into early retirements to avoid the payment of benefits after years of “service” to this church. They were replaced with younger workers with minimal accrued benefits. An example of this was my own father who in his early 60s was a gardener at one of our renowned SDA medical centers who was always the first to be called in the middle of the night to plow the snow. I also personally know that one of those mentioned on this site hires illegals to do much of his home maintenance.

I also wonder how many of these CEOs are ASI members?

Just an inquiring mind and two more cents.

nw
C"i"

I totally agree with you, NW, and share your indignation without a doubt......

[YogusBearus]

I would say not only in another thread, but also in another forum. I agree with Gregory. This forum was created for the purpose of containing information on the 3abn Saga in one place where those who wished to learn what has been said could come and read. And the more we add unrelated topics in this forum, the more it is unnecessarily made cumersome and difficult for new comers to find material relative to 3abn and difficult for old-times to be able to review and compare old material with new. And this is true no matter how great the urgency or how trivial the light-hearted comments.

The admins here have been quite cooperative in moving much of the distractive material. I hope they will soon see this block of posts and move them to an appropriately titled thread in an appropriate forum so that those who are interested in these topics may have access to them and be able to continue discussing them, and those who come to find information about 3abn will be able to do so more easily.

Thanks much admins!

I have no disagreement with your points about placement Watchbird. I am a little uneasy with the implication that the 3abn scandal is the only thing that people are or should be interested in. Some may find the downside potential of what used to be a church controlled health system run amok, even more frightening than the 3abn debacle.

-bear

[Artiste]

I would say not only in another thread, but also in another forum. I agree with Gregory. This forum was created for the purpose of containing information on the 3abn Saga in one place where those who wished to learn what has been said could come and read. And the more we add unrelated topics in this forum, the more it is unnecessarily made cumersome and difficult for new comers to find material relative to 3abn and difficult for old-times to be able to review and compare old material with new. And this is true no matter how great the urgency or how trivial the light-hearted comments.

The admins here have been quite cooperative in moving much of the distractive material. I hope they will soon see this block of posts and move them to an appropriately titled thread in an appropriate forum so that those who are interested in these topics may have access to them and be able to continue discussing them, and those who come to find information about 3abn will be able to do so more easily.

Thanks much admins!

I agree, Watchbird, and have spent countless hours myself over the last 6 or 8 weeks reading the material on this forum, as well as on save3abn.com. So it continues to serve its purpose.

Having a very personal interest in seeing certain problems/people with 3ABN being served justice, I appreciate so much what is being done here at this forum!

[princessdi]

Ok, I know this has been said before, sometimes the thread waunders, topics intersect, especially as we see that the topics have some facts and principals in common----3ABN, ASI, AHS, GC...... As we see this has already been spun off into it's own thread, and I am sure this will waunder back to 3ABN in due time. There is no need to move the post, especially since they ahve been copied and quoted, etc.

[YogusBearus]

The admins here have been quite cooperative in moving much of the distractive material. I hope they will soon see this block of posts and move them to an appropriately titled thread in an appropriate forum so that those who are interested in these topics may have access to them and be able to continue discussing them, and those who come to find information about 3abn will be able to do so more easily.

Thanks much admins!

Problem Solved!

I see there is a thread started in Adventism: Theology and Related Subjects addressing these issues. Off topic bear moving in there. Wait! It was just seen leaving the "Sista Talk" section heading for "Aging Gracefully"....

-bear


This post has been edited by YogusBearus: Jun 7 2007, 01:40 PM

[PeacefulBe]

Perhaps we need a forum where we could discuss and discover:

"Which SDA Organization Shows the True Face of Adventism?"

This post has been edited by PeacefullyBewildered: Jun 7 2007, 02:03 PM

[Observer]

Gregory, if your point is that it might be better to have discussion tangents such as the Rodney Vega/Adventist Health System fiasco discussed in a different thread, I have no argument. If you are suggesting that we don't collectively have the resources or the interest to look at abuses other than 3abn, I absolutely disagree. I'm sure we all have our pet issues that we feel are most worthy of support. I just don't think we need to limit the scope of our interest and/or discussion.

I apologize in advance if I've misread your post.

-bear

Bear:

I may not have been clear. My dear wife occasionally (?) tells me that is the case with me.

Thank you for helping me to clairfy it.

I do not have a problem with any discussiong that subject, or others. Each can make their own decision as to where they spend their emotional energy.

My wish was to do it somewhere other than in this 3-ABN section.

Thank you,
Gregory Matthews

[Jnana15]

Perhaps we need a forum where we could discuss and discover:

"Which SDA Organization Shows the True Face of Adventism?"

Amen Sista! Let me know when you find one.

[Noahswife]

Ok, I know this has been said before, sometimes the thread waunders, topics intersect, especially as we see that the topics have some facts and principals in common----3ABN, ASI, AHS, GC...... As we see this has already been spun off into it's own thread, and I am sure this will waunder back to 3ABN in due time. There is no need to move the post, especially since they ahve been copied and quoted, etc.

For the Record:

Before posting on this thread, I first posted in another subforum:
http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s...ic=3604&hl=

After some discussion, it was decided that an off topic post would be made in the 3abn forum and this thread was not chosen without thought. If there is anything of significance regarding 3abn on this thread for potential newbies please point it out if you would. THE POST IS CLEARY MARKED OFF TOPIC.

However, many of us are looking at more than just 3abn as we watch how the GC and NAD and other related SDA organizations conduct themselves consistent with their stated mission statements or not.

As is pointed out, a new thread has also be started here:
http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s...c=13763&hl=

I am not aware that discussion of 3abn issues is objected to so quickly and so vehemently in other areas as linkage is often seen cross threads and cross sub forums. I thank the admins for their patience and independence.

nw
C"i"

This post has been edited by Noahswife: Jun 7 2007, 02:52 PM

[mikell]

Perhaps we need a forum where we could discuss and discover:

"Which SDA Organization Shows the True Face of Adventism?"

Good question, if answered, let me know,