3abn Confirms Real Estate Transaction, & Hints of Piano Sale Besides Options

[PeacefulBe]

I googled it and found a number of sites explaining what you are saying, so I posted a link to one of them.

Interesting site, beartrap. It doesn't look like Lot 6 falls into the de minimus exclusion of employer to employee gifts.

[Pickle]

I clearly do not have the facts to be able to say whether or not the transaction in question qualified under IRS rules as a gift. I do not have the facts to make any statement in regard to whether or not either Danny or Linda should have declard such as taxable income on their 1040s.

I wouldn't know how the IRS would want Ma Ford's gift of 18 acres reported.

But one problem I see with Lot 6 is that 3ABN reported it to the IRS on the 990, not as a gift to two directors and officers, but as a sale to some unspecified party.

If it was a sale, and we should probably assume that 3ABN is telling the truth about it being a sale since the 990 was probably signed under penalty of perjury, then would not the $129,000 of profit 7 days later have to be reported as a capital gain if no part of it had been reported as compensation on Danny and Linda's W-2's?

[Snoopy]

Well, Snoopy, why don't you call up Lisa Madigan on Monday and ask her what she thinks about it? And report back and let us know what she says.

I do not recall whether Linda mentioned the lack of a pension plan or not. I think I heard that from two people other than her. She did call the property a gift.

She also justified it in part this way: The place was bought for around $65,000, and Danny fixed it up a bit, which is why it increased in value.

I asked her if Danny or 3ABN paid for the materials, and if Danny fixed it up on company time. If 3ABN paid for the materials, then that doesn't help. And I guess whether Danny did it on company time or not is irrelevant. Either way the "gift" of the house is still compensation.

I went to the Illinois Attorney General website where their is a specific page dedicated to charities:

http://www.illinoisattorneygeneral.gov/charities/index.html

At the bottom of that page is this address and phone number:

Illinois Attorney General
Charitable Trust Bureau
100 W. Randolph St., 11th Floor
Chicago, IL 60601
(312) 814-2595
TTY: (312) 814-3374

I called the number and was told that any complaint or request for investigation had to be filed in writing and would trigger an investigation by an attorney. They do not have a defined compaint form. They were able to tell me that to date there has not been a complaint filed against 3ABN.

This post has been edited by Snoopy: Jun 18 2007, 03:44 PM

[lurker]

Thanks for the information, Snoopy,

There is a link on that page Illinois Attorney General's Registered Charities. When you click on that link, the next page has a link Charitable Database Information and Disclaimer. Read the disclaimer and it looks like if you click on "yes" that you agree and proceed, there looks like there is more information available from the State about a charity. This is not to file a complaint, just to get more inside information on the charity you want to learn more about.

I didn't go any further.

Is anyone going to file?

This post has been edited by lurker: Jun 18 2007, 04:30 PM

[runner4him]

Thanks for the information, Snoopy,

There is a link on that page Illinois Attorney General's Registered Charities. When you click on that link, the next page has a link Charitable Database Information and Disclaimer. Read the disclaimer and it looks like if you click on "yes" that you agree and proceed, there looks like there is more information available from the State about a charity. This is not to file a complaint, just to get more inside information on the charity you want to learn more about.

I didn't go any further.

Is anyone going to file?

Someone should.........................

[Artiste]

Thanks for the information, Snoopy,

There is a link on that page Illinois Attorney General's Registered Charities. When you click on that link, the next page has a link Charitable Database Information and Disclaimer. Read the disclaimer and it looks like if you click on "yes" that you agree and proceed, there looks like there is more information available from the State about a charity. This is not to file a complaint, just to get more inside information on the charity you want to learn more about.

I didn't go any further.

Is anyone going to file?

And what is the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists going to do about the possibility of this potentially damaging action against "the world-wide face of Adventism"?

Have they or are they going to put out a warning advisory for the older conservative church members of problems coming up with their favorite SDA ministry media outlet? The one they like to give their donations to?

As far as General Conference officials not appearing on 3ABN, interviews including the General Conference trust department official have been airing several times over the last week.


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[lurker]

They said that programs already taped could be used just not to tape any new ones. I'd guess that these programs fall into that category. At least I hope so. I think 3ABN is trying to give the impression of continued support by airing already taped shows.

Some of us older conservative members are already among the most concerned. The thing that would rock my faith is if in the face of all that we know, the G.C. wimps out and doesn't take a stand.

This is a little story about four people named Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, and Nobody.

There was an important job to be done and Everybody was sure that Somebody would do it.

Anybody could have done it, but Nobody did it.

Somebody got angry about that because it was Everybody's job.

Everybody thought that Anybody could do it, but Nobody realized that Everybody wouldn't do it.

It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody when Nobody did what Anybody could have done

This post has been edited by lurker: Jun 18 2007, 07:06 PM

[runner4him]

They said that programs already taped could be used just not to tape any new ones. I's guess that these programs fall into that category. At least I hope so. I think 3ABN is trying to give the impression of continued support by airing already taped shows.

Some of us older conservative members are already among the most concerned. The thing that would rock my faith is if in the face of all that we know, the G.C. wimps out and doesn't take a stand.

This is a little story about four people named Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, and Nobody.

There was an important job to be done and Everybody was sure that Somebody would do it.

Anybody could have done it, but Nobody did it.

Somebody got angry about that because it was Everybody's job.

Everybody thought that Anybody could do it, but Nobody realized that Everybody wouldn't do it.

It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody when Nobody did what Anybody could have done

I could not agree more. They need to get on the move sooner rather than later. How damaging if they waited until some reporter gets the story and it makes headlines....then they will look like Whimps indeed. I guess I come from a line of doers and maybe to a fault that we are not cautious enough at times. I think I remember somewhere in the SOP where we are told to make a decision and not to be wishy washy. (not an exact quote)

[Artiste]

Some of us older conservative members are already among the most concerned. The thing that would rock my faith is if in the face of all that we know, the G.C. wimps out and doesn't take a stand.

I also am among the group of older conservative church members, only I am not one of those who donate!



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This post has been edited by Artiste: Jun 18 2007, 07:00 PM

[lurker]

Well I used to donate but not anymore. And it wan't "gossip" on the internet that influenced me. I watched 3ABN a lot because my husband runs the remote and the more I saw, the worse it seemed to get. And I handle the donations.

[Richard Sherwin]

I guess if they can take legal action then so can the rest of us.

And for sure nothing is changing with Doctor Chairman. He and I have exchanged a couple emails the last few days and basically what he said was they are breaking the lease on the plane and sure are going to miss it, 3ABN has done nothing wrong, are covering up nothing immoral or illegal and that he has a clear conscience and he has done his job well

Richard

[Rosyroi]

I have no trouble believing that Linda might not have known the implications of what she was signing. I don't understand all that stuff and I would have turned to someone I trusted, i.e. my husband, to tell me it was OK to sign. Now, I believe I would find an expert and talk to them before signing.

Daylily

I agree with you Daylily,
Rosyroi

[Panama_Pete]

I guess if they can take legal action then so can the rest of us.

And for sure nothing is changing with Doctor Chairman. He and I have exchanged a couple emails the last few days and basically what he said was they are breaking the lease on the plane and sure are going to miss it, 3ABN has done nothing wrong, are covering up nothing immoral or illegal and that he has a clear conscience and he has done his job well

Richard

It seems the top leadership is preparing for their own retirement years with "off the map" real estate transactions?

If that's the case, then I think the 3ABN employees need to plan for their own retirement years. Based on what I read, it seems the President is providing for himself, and not waiting for God to do anything regarding his retirement.

This reminds me of a story.

The statement “Go West young man; go West” was made during the last century by Horace Greely, an editor and publisher who founded both the New Yorker Magazine and the New York Tribune Newspaper. He was admonishing young adventurers to seek their fortunes in the wild west.

Horace, himself, went East and made a fortune.

So, dear 3ABN employee, when you consider someone's advice about retirement benefits, don't expect that advisor to take their own advice. You may find out you're being duped after it is too late to do anything about it. Also remember that even good medical doctors make big, gigantic mistakes: That's why they spend so much on malpractice insurance.

[Artiste]

The statement “Go West young man; go West” was made during the last century by Horace Greely, an editor and publisher who founded both the New Yorker Magazine and the New York Tribune Newspaper. He was admonishing young adventurers to seek their fortunes in the wild west.

Horace, himself, went East and made a fortune.

So, dear 3ABN employee, when you consider someone's advice about retirement benefits, don't expect that advisor to take their own advice. You may find out you're being duped after it is too late to do anything about it. Also remember that even good medical doctors make big, gigantic mistakes: That's why they spend so much on malpractice insurance.

Wonderful story...totally agree!

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(But if you don't mind, please go easy on the medical doctors!)

This post has been edited by Artiste: Jun 18 2007, 09:36 PM

[Shiny Penny]

SP:

I do have my facts straight.

You are correct in what you say.

The issue is that you have not told the whole truth.

What you say is correct as it applies to what the IRS allows to be a qualified gift. Your failure to tell the whole truth applies to what the IRS does not allow to qualify for the gift provisions thatyou cite.

I clearly do not have the facts to be able to say whether or not the transaction in question qualified under IRS rules as a gift. I do not have the facts to make any statement in regard to whether or not either Danny or Linda should have declard such as taxable income on their 1040s.

But, I do have the knowledge to say that based upon your statement that a 3-ABN supported had made them a gift you have raised the issue that such may not have qualified as a gift under IRS rules and that it might have been, under IRS rules taxable income to them.

Again, I do do know. But, it is of interest that one of the reasons we appreciate you comming here and defending 3-ABN is due to the information that you give us that we can use.

Thank you for your insightful comment.

My earlier comments were referring to the "strong supporter's" gift of the land. If that wasn't clear to you, then I apologize and hope it is clear now. I hold to my prior statements and citations from the IRS website - the giver of the gift is the payer of the taxes, if there are any taxes to pay.

It is interesting to me that I am accused of neglecting to tell the whole truth, when the whole issue that is being discussed relates from some few documents that are posted on the Save site...with lots of surmising and far from the whole of anything, much less the whole truth. Why bring up 3 or 4 documents, when Linda says she doesn't remember what they're about? Or is there some parts of the known truth that are being withheld? That's a thought worth consdering. Perhaps you or others in the know can confirm that what has been disclosed about the house (Lot 6) transactions is a complete picture, or as complete as is possible under the circumstances.

It is annoying to find that partial information is disclosed in order to influence how we as members of bsda will view certain transactions. I certainly hope that this is not the case, but would appreciate some confirmation that there has been full disclosure regarding what is known about the Lot 6 transactions.

Thank you.