Walt Thompson Defends The Lawsuit Options

[Pickle]

Here is a small portion of a form letter Walt Thompson is sending out when justifying 3ABN suing other Adventists:

We have been accused falsely. That was OK until it began to seriously impact the ministry. When, in spite of everything we knew how to do, our donors started holding back their gifts, we grinned and bore it. When, however, we discovered that the leadership of the church had cautioned its workers to cool it and refrain from involvement with 3abn until "it resolved its problems," we concluded it was time to do something. I spoke with Mark at the GC seeking help. He told me over and over again that the leadership of the church could not and would not get involved in our disputes. He suggested, as others had and as we had considered, to request help from ASI. We sent a request to ASI. After some time and a number of meetings of their exec. committee, they finally agreed to establish a commission to respond to our request.

According to Harold Lance's January 24, 2007, statement, 3ABN's board decided to send a request to ASI on September 24. Thus Walt is claiming above that church leaders were asking church employees to distance themselves from 3ABN prior to September 24. And he is also claiming that prior to that, donations were down enough that it could have been a concern.

Is this true at all? Were donations significantly down prior to September 24? Were church leaders asking employees to distance themselves from 3ABN prior to September 24? Or is this a reconstruction of history and an intentional fabrication?

As far as seeking non-Adventist attorneys and going to the courts, I might site the example of the Apostle Paul, who wrote the portion of First Corinthians 6:5-7, about the courts, but himself finally appealed to Ceasar because he was unable to work things out with his one people. I quote from Acts of the Apostles, " "When Festus was come into the province, after three days he ascended from Caesarea to Jerusalem. Then the high priest and the chief of the Jews informed him against Paul, and besought him, and desired favor against him, that he would send for him to Jerusalem." In making this request they purposed to waylay Paul along the road to Jerusalem and murder him. But Festus had a high sense of the responsibility of his position, and courteously declined to send for Paul. "It is not the manner of the Romans," he declared, "to deliver any man to die, before that he which is accused have the accusers face to face, and have license to answer for himself concerning the crime laid against him." He stated that "he himself would depart shortly" for Caesarea. "Let them there . . . which among you are able, go down with me, and accuse this man, if there be any wickedness in him."

Does the above logic apply to this case? The apostle Paul was accused in a court of law by his own people, and in order to escape the snares they had set for him using the legal system of his day, he appealed to Caesar.

So who would represent Paul today? Who would represent his accusers? Specifically, who is accusing whom in a court of law in this case? Who is trying to use today's legal process to destroy whom?

[Fran]

I Can See Clearly Now


I can see clearly now, the rain is gone,
I can see all obstacles in my way
Gone are the dark clouds that had me blind
It’s gonna be a bright (bright), bright (bright)
Sun-Shiny day.

I think I can make it now, the pain is gone
All of the bad feelings have disappeared
Here is the rainbow I’ve been prayin' for
It’s gonna be a bright (bright), bright (bright)
Sun-Shiny day.

Look all around, there’s nothin?but blue skies
Look straight ahead, nothin?but blue skies

I can see clearly now, the rain is gone,
I can see all obstacles in my way
Gone are the dark clouds that had me blind
It’s gonna be a bright (bright), bright (bright)
Sun-Shiny day.

[LaurenceD]

There isn't a normal Adventist alive who wouldn't stop donating to 3abn after watching that live explantion of the marriage problems by that salesman.

WT, DS, and all the other supporters were/are out of touch with the normal SDA if they thought they could pull that off and still survive.

It's like they're in denial of the real problem, and seeking revenge with one of the effects. But that's normal for people who can't face the truth.

Edit: definitions of "normal" may vary, but I mix with a wide variety of normal SDAs...and this is my impression.

This post has been edited by LaurenceD: Jun 15 2007, 09:34 PM

[mikell]

Am I reading WT right? Did he compare Danny Shelton to the Apostle Paul???

This post has been edited by mikell: Jun 16 2007, 01:11 AM

[Artiste]

Here is a small portion of a form letter Walt Thompson is sending out when justifying 3ABN suing other Adventists:

What is the date of this letter, and what are the rest of the contents?







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[Daryl Fawcett]

Yes, it would be nice to see the whole form letter.

[Fran]

Yes, it would be nice to see the whole form letter.

My feelings are hurt! I didn't get one!

[Pickle]

I will not provide the entire letter, but I will say that there are multiple copies going around, and that it was being sent out by Walt this last week.

I will provide this much:

We have been accused falsely. That was OK until it began to seriously impact the ministry. When, in spite of everything we knew how to do, our donors started holding back their gifts, we grinned and bore it. When, however, we discovered that the leadership of the church had cautioned its workers to cool it and refrain from involvement with 3abn until "it resolved its problems," we concluded it was time to do something. I spoke with Mark at the GC seeking help. He told me over and over again that the leadership of the church could not and would not get involved in our disputes. He suggested, as others had and as we had considered, to request help from ASI. We sent a request to ASI. After some time and a number of meetings of their exec. committee, they finally agreed to establish a commission to respond to our request. After several months of trying, they sent us a memo stating that because Linda's supporters would not play by the rules they were attempting to work by, they could not help us. We thought of establishing a small private group to review the events and make an evaluation. In view of the fact that ASI was unable to gather the necessary facts, there was certainly no chance that a group we established would be able to do so.

So, what do we do? Let the ministry go down without a wimper? We believe we have done everything one could possibly do to tell the truth and to do right. Yes, we might have continued to pray and expect God to yet bring us through the crisis. But as I read the record of the Bible, though God has always been the One who goes before His people into battle, He has often insisted that they also have a role to play. Gideon is just one example of many.

As far as seeking non-Adventist attorneys and going to the courts, I might site the example of the Apostle Paul, who wrote the portion of First Corinthians 6:5-7, about the courts, but himself finally appealed to Ceasar because he was unable to work things out with his one people. I quote from Acts of the Apostles, " "When Festus was come into the province, after three days he ascended from Caesarea to Jerusalem. Then the high priest and the chief of the Jews informed him against Paul, and besought him, and desired favor against him, that he would send for him to Jerusalem." In making this request they purposed to waylay Paul along the road to Jerusalem and murder him. But Festus had a high sense of the responsibility of his position, and courteously declined to send for Paul. "It is not the manner of the Romans," he declared, "to deliver any man to die, before that he which is accused have the accusers face to face, and have license to answer for himself concerning the crime laid against him." He stated that "he himself would depart shortly" for Caesarea. "Let them there . . . which among you are able, go down with me, and accuse this man, if there be any wickedness in him."
429
{AA 428.1}

This was not what the Jews wanted. They had not forgotten their former defeat at Caesarea. In contrast with the calm bearing and forcible arguments of the apostle, their own malignant spirit and baseless accusations would appear in the worst possible light. Again they urged that Paul be brought to Jerusalem for trial, but Festus held firmly to his purpose of giving Paul a fair trial at Caesarea. God in His providence controlled the decision of Festus, that the life of the apostle might be lengthened. {AA 429.1}

Their purposes defeated, the Jewish leaders at once prepared to witness against Paul at the court of the procurator. Upon returning to Caesarea, after a few days' sojourn at Jerusalem, Festus "the next day sitting on the judgment seat commanded Paul to be brought." "The Jews which came down from Jerusalem stood round about, and laid many and grievous complaints against Paul, which they could not prove." Being on this occasion without a lawyer, the Jews preferred their charges themselves. As the trial proceeded, the accused with calmness and candor clearly showed the falsity of their statements. {AA 429.2}

Festus discerned that the question in dispute related wholly to Jewish doctrines, and that, rightly understood, there was nothing in the charges against Paul, could they be proved, that would render him subject to sentence of death, or even to imprisonment. Yet he saw clearly the storm of rage that would be created if Paul were not condemned or delivered into their hands. And so, "willing to do the Jews a pleasure," Festus turned to Paul, and asked if he
430
was willing to go to Jerusalem under his protection, to be tried by the Sanhedrin. {AA 429.3}

The apostle knew that he could not look for justice from the people who by their crimes were bringing down upon themselves the wrath of God. He knew that, like the prophet Elijah, he would be safer among the heathen than with those who had rejected light from heaven and hardened their hearts against the gospel. Weary of strife, his active spirit could ill endure the repeated delays and wearing suspense of his trial and imprisonment. He therefore decided to exercise his privilege, as a Roman citizen, of appealing to Caesar. {AA 430.1}

In answer to the governor's question, Paul said: "I stand at Caesar's judgment seat, where I ought to be judged: to the Jews have I done no wrong, as thou very well knowest. For if I be an offender, or have committed anything worthy of death, I refuse not to die: but if there be none of these things whereof these accuse me, no man may deliver me unto them. I appeal unto Caesar." {AA 430.2}

Festus knew nothing of the conspiracies of the Jews to murder Paul, and he was surprised at this appeal to Caesar. However, the words of the apostle put a stop to the proceedings of the court. "Festus, when he had conferred with the council, answered, Hast thou appealed unto Caesar? unto Caesar shalt thou go." {AA 430.3}

Thus it was that once more, because of hatred born of bigotry and self-righteousness, a servant of God was driven to turn for protection to the heathen. It was this same hatred that forced the prophet Elijah to flee for succor to the widow
431
of Sarepta; and that forced the heralds of the gospel to turn from the Jews to proclaim their message to the Gentiles. And this hatred the people of God living in this age have yet to meet. Among many of the professing followers of Christ there is the same pride, formalism, and selfishness, the same spirit of oppression, that held so large a place in the Jewish heart. In the future, men claiming to be Christ's representatives will take a course similar to that followed by the priests and rulers in their treatment of Christ and the apostles. In the great crisis through which they are soon to pass, the faithful servants of God will encounter the same hardness of heart, the same cruel determination, the same unyielding hatred. {AA 430.4} (Witness the posts on the Internet and other places!) All who in that evil day would fearlessly serve God according to the dictates of conscience, will need courage, firmness, and a knowledge of God and His word; for those who are true to God will be persecuted, their motives will be impugned, their best efforts misinterpreted, and their names cast out as evil. Satan will work with all his deceptive power to influence the heart and becloud the understanding, to make evil appear good, and good evil. The stronger and purer the faith of God's people, and the firmer their determination to obey Him, the more fiercely will Satan strive to stir up against them the rage of those who, while claiming to be righteous, trample upon the law of God. It will require the firmest trust, the most heroic purpose, to hold fast the faith once delivered to the saints. {AA 431.1}

This statement describes the vicious attacks against 3abn and its people exactly. Those making the attacks never came to us seeking truth, but rather, came to us with false accusations challenging us to prove them wrong in the "court" of public opinion where no oath requires truth to be told.

This was not an easy decision for Danny or I. I expect the same is true for the other members of the board that voted to move foreword with the suit. You may consider it a lack of faith! Perhaps! But I don't think so. For we earnestly sought the guidance of God before signing anything.

Some might call it paranoia, but I believe the devil does not like what he sees happening with this ministry. Doors continue to open for the proclamation fo the gospel. The Ten Commandment weekend has been great, teaching our viewers all around the world about the God of love behind the Commandments. I firmly believe God will see us through these difficult times, but we too must have a part to play.

We cherish your comments and prayers. We truly want to do what is right. As I read the comments you sent from EGW, and a few others in her writings, I was troubled because I know we have sought God's guidance at every step. I still believe what EGW wrote. It has been my modus operandi through life from a personal perspective. I cannot as easily let the cause of God be victimized without responding in my Lord's defense. Yes, I know He doesn't need my defense, but I owe it to Him for His goodness to me.

While I do not equate the Church Manual with EGW or the Bible, I do think that God does guide the Church.

The current CHRUCH MANUAL clearly states that there are situations where the church has neither the authority nor the ability to resolve disputes, and in such cases recourse is only to the civil authorities.

The CHRUCH MANUAL also states that the church should not be diverted from its mission to preach the gospel to become a civil magistrate.

I hereby go on record that I find the above communication by Walt Thompson to be reprehensible. Here I am, prohibited by a federal judge to even say what I am being sued about, and here he is, behind my back, making statements like this? I never came to any of them seeking truth? Never came to John Lomacang, Mollie Steenson, Walt himself, Danny Shelton, or Hal Steenson? Never once?

Is Walt Thompson man enough, Christian enough, to apologize for making the above statement? Or is he like Danny, seemingly incapable of backing down on the minutest point?

Before you quibble with my words, think carefully about what he wrote, and consider the questions I asked in my correspondence and where those questions came from.

[LaurenceD]

You can tell that WT is the ultimate authority that decieds what is what...(I hear it's not unusual for for doctors to play God)

"We have been accused falsely." (WT decides, but doesn't say accused of what. He seems incapable of acknowledging there are two sides to every story, and that his is only a story. What about LS? Is it possible she was "falsely accused" No, of course not)

"We believe we have done everything one could possibly do to tell the truth and to do right." (WT determines this by "believe" which covers the truth through sincerity and motive)

"I might site the example of the Apostle Paul," (WT assumes authority to emulate the example of Paul rather than Christ at His trial--and goes on at some length about Paul, perhaps even making unwarranted parallels, because it may justify 3abn's motives--both 3abn and Paul being fallible examples)

"came to us with false accusations challenging us to prove them wrong in the "court of public opinion where no oath requires truth to be told." (notice the grim silence about LS being accused and subjected to the same TV court through the ever justified judgement of 3abn's own handpicked board)

"You may consider it a lack of faith! Perhaps! But I don't think so. For we earnestly sought the guidance of God before signing anything." (Only WT knows, and praying about it gives strength to continue down this precarious path)

"Some might call it paranoia, but I believe the devil does not like what he sees happening with this ministry. Doors continue to open for the proclamation fo the gospel. The Ten Commandment weekend has been great, teaching our viewers all around the world about the God of love behind the Commandments. I firmly believe God will see us through these difficult times, but we too must have a part to play." (WT backpeddals a bit and suddenly employs a devise called self-satisfying but incorrect reasoning--or rationalization--to achieve the unbending purpose)

"While I do not equate the Church Manual with EGW or the Bible, I do think that God does guide the Church." (more of the same direction)

[Rosyroi]

I will not provide the entire letter, but I will say that there are multiple copies going around, and that it was being sent out by Walt this last week.

I will provide this much:
I hereby go on record that I find the above communication by Walt Thompson to be reprehensible. Here I am, prohibited by a federal judge to even say what I am being sued about, and here he is, behind my back, making statements like this? I never came to any of them seeking truth? Never came to John Lomacang, Mollie Steenson, Walt himself, Danny Shelton, or Hal Steenson? Never once?

Is Walt Thompson man enough, Christian enough, to apologize for making the above statement? Or is he like Danny, seemingly incapable of backing down on the minutest point?

Before you quibble with my words, think carefully about what he wrote, and consider the questions I asked in my correspondence and where those questions came from.

Turn it around. When questions are asked of them they have never been open and honest to the shareholders sitting in the pews.

They weren't to me.

That's my story and I am sticking with it.

Rosyroi

This post has been edited by Rosyroi: Jun 16 2007, 08:50 AM

[runner4him]

Here is a small portion of a form letter Walt Thompson is sending out when justifying 3ABN suing other Adventists:
According to Harold Lance's January 24, 2007, statement, 3ABN's board decided to send a request to ASI on September 24. Thus Walt is claiming above that church leaders were asking church employees to distance themselves from 3ABN prior to September 24. And he is also claiming that prior to that, donations were down enough that it could have been a concern.

I must be missing something here....When did the contributions go down per W.T? When did the church start distancing themselves (what caused that...rumors...divorce...remarriage....?)And when did the save3abn site go up? (I think the site surfaced much later...not sure but maybe after the first of the year?)

Now the question that I have is why the lawsuit if the problems began way before the site went up? From my knowledge the suit is against Gailon Joy (why.... is it because of the web site?) and B. Pickle (for what reason?). And from reading the letter that W.T. wrote, he commented:

Those making the attacks never came to us seeking truth, but rather, came to us with false accusations challenging us to prove them wrong in the "court" of public opinion where no oath requires truth to be told.

It seems like they went to court so they could have an "oath" requiring truth to be told...then why the SECRECY of an impounded lawsuit?

Like I said....I must be missing something!

[Panama_Pete]

I have one question. How is this letter -- apparently from Thompson -- being distributed? Is it by mail, with a self-addressed donation envelope inside, or by some other method? Is it seeking empathy and does it mention unending attacks by a seemingly undefeated Satan?

Forgive me for being cynical, but other TV ministries have found that mentioning attacks by an all-powerful, unstoppable Satan scares the old folks and is good for an immediate $100,000 or more when the senior citizens cash their social security checks at the beginning of the month.

The letter might have been written to accompany the more-important donation envelope tucked in with the letter.

Maybe some horses somewhere are running short on oats: Historically, the price of oats is up.



This post has been edited by Panama_Pete: Jun 16 2007, 01:58 PM

[Artiste]

So DS has become Moses, David, John the Baptist, and now the apostle Paul???

Have I missed any?






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[Johann]

I must be missing something here....When did the contributions go down per W.T? When did the church start distancing themselves (what caused that...rumors...divorce...remarriage....?)And when did the save3abn site go up? (I think the site surfaced much later...not sure but maybe after the first of the year?)

Now the question that I have is why the lawsuit if the problems began way before the site went up? From my knowledge the suit is against Gailon Joy (why.... is it because of the web site?) and B. Pickle (for what reason?). And from reading the letter that W.T. wrote, he commented:

It seems like they went to court so they could have an "oath" requiring truth to be told...then why the SECRECY of an impounded lawsuit?

Like I said....I must be missing something!

It has often worried me how some of the major actors of 3ABN mix up chronology. This has caused some of the greater misunderstandings during the present crisis. But I suppose many of the old contributors have very little time consciousness, so why worry about being truthful, when the story can increase the donations?

I trust the judge in the court case has a greater sense of chronology.

[Artiste]

It has often worried me how some of the major actors of 3ABN mix up chronology. This has caused some of the greater misunderstandings during the present crisis. But I suppose many of the old contributors have very little time consciousness, so why worry about being truthful, when the story can increase the donations?

I trust the judge in the court case has a greater sense of chronology.

Concerning the "present crisis", I was reading some posts from almost a year ago and it seemed that church leaders were being given pertinent information about the problems...that was a year ago...why is nothing happening?




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