Hope Channel's New Newsletter Snippets Options

[PeacefulBe]

This was a long post. I have been working on getting it read and comprehended off and on since it was posted. I have to say that I appreciate FHB taking the time to put together such a comprehensive study on the ties this man has with New Age thought.

I also don't think the length was necessarily inappropriate and it was posted in the most appropriate thread. Taking the amount that is posted on many of the aspects of 3abn into consideration, it is not diversionary in the least to point out some possible irregularites with Hope Channel programming. I also think it would be very beneficial to further discuss this issue, just as princessdi has already started to do, without skewering the messenger or his motives.

Of course, this is a forum, so all are welcome to post their opinions. This is mine.

I would really enjoy seeing a similar piece on Shelly Quinn or other folks in the limelight on both 3abn and Hope channel. I am frankly, however, not interested in any expose on individuals on TBN, etc. Just don't have the time for every ministry.

Note: was going to say more but decided not to edit after all.

This post has been edited by PeacefulBe: Aug 23 2007, 06:39 PM

[princessdi]

LOL! Hursh Gurl!!

I would really enjoy seeing a similar piece on Shelly Quinn or other folks in the limelight on both 3abn and Hope channel. I am frankly, however, not interested in any expose on individuals on TBN, etc. Just don't have the time for every ministry.
Note: was going to say more but decided not to edit after all.

[Clay]

You want documentation, you just don't want to read it?

- FHB

give a summary and a link would do just fine...

[Ozzie]

give a summary and a link would do just fine...

[LaurenceD]

FHB, the long comentary you supplied about Ken Blanchardwas written by letusreason.org and can be found here http://www.letusreason.org/Popteac33.htm --right?

And at the bottom of the article it warns:

© 2006 No portion of this site is to be copied or used unless kept in its original format the way it appears. Articles can be reproduced in portions for ones personal use, any other use is to have the permission of the author first. Thank You.

And you changed some of the format (links), right?

And this is what the same author (letusreason.org) has to say about Seventh-day Adventists http://www.letusreason.org/7thDdir.htm --and do you agree? Or do you admit letusreason.org may be off in their commentaries, and not just a little?

And Hopes programming will be about the intersection of faith and commerce, not Blanchard's personal past or present beliefs, right?

[fallible humanbe...]

LD,

Compare the article word for word . . . nothing is changed, all his words are exactly as they were written, if the links are not formated to the character, I am guessing the author is not going to come after me as every link is in the same general location it appeared in the original. If it bothers you, if you think I have violated his copyright, report me.

I thought about posting in regards to your second comment within my OP but decided against it. It matters not what he says about Seventh-day Adventists. It doesn't change the information that is presented about Blanchard. If you want to deal with that start another thread in the theology section. As for what he says about Blanchard and his connection to New Age theology and practices - these are supported by the other links that have been provided. Additionally, if you Google things yourself you will find even more than this in regards to Blanchard's connections to the New Age/Occultist/Eastern Philosophy teachings.

You are wallowing in contrived muck (antagonism) in an effort to vilify me (because you don't agree with my position on the 3ABN issues) and as an attempt to make of no concern the information that is presented. What you don't do, is address anything that is contained in this content - or the importance of the global television station touting itself as the official station of the Adventist faith providing this type of programming with this presenter. Now, if you are in support of Blanchard then offer information that proves wrong what has been presented - it will certainly make for very enlightening discussion.

Additionally, it isn't my commentary. As I posted, if you Google Blanchard, the second non-commercial link is the one containing the information I presented (if that isn't clear in my words then I am remiss.) The links at the bottom of course are not my commentary. Unlike the save/not group I am not providing any slanting commentary - merely presenting the information for consideration and discussion. I am not pitting 3ABN against Hope . . . I am merely brining to notice a rather concerning piece of information that fits within the context of this discussion. Again, if you subscribe to Blanchard's form of Christianity, I would be interested in hearing your side of things. IMHO what we have here is a man who couched himself as a Christian, to gain wider exposure, who then through his association and affirmation has shown that he is in full support of everything from Transcendental Meditation to a blending of "the best" of each religion into one that works for the individual. This doesn't seem to be the type of programming that one would hope to see on ANY television station that has worked with or is run by the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

- FHB

FHB, the long comentary you supplied about Ken Blanchardwas written by letusreason.org and can be found here http://www.letusreason.org/Popteac33.htm --right?

And at the bottom of the article it warns:

© 2006 No portion of this site is to be copied or used unless kept in its original format the way it appears. Articles can be reproduced in portions for ones personal use, any other use is to have the permission of the author first. Thank You.

And you changed some of the format (links), right?

And this is what the same author (letusreason.org) has to say about Seventh-day Adventists http://www.letusreason.org/7thDdir.htm --and do you agree? Or do you admit letusreason.org may be off in their commentaries, and not just a little?

And Hopes programming will be about the intersection of faith and commerce, not Blanchard's personal past or present beliefs, right?

[LaurenceD]

LD,

Compare the article word for word . . . nothing is changed, all his words are exactly as they were written, if the links are not formated to the character, I am guessing the author is not going to come after me as every link is in the same general location it appeared in the original. If it bothers you, if you think I have violated his copyright, report me.

I thought about posting in regards to your second comment within my OP but decided against it. It matters not what he says about Seventh-day Adventists. It doesn't change the information that is presented about Blanchard. If you want to deal with that start another thread in the theology section. As for what he says about Blanchard and his connection to New Age theology and practices - these are supported by the other links that have been provided. Additionally, if you Google things yourself you will find even more than this in regards to Blanchard's connections to the New Age/Occultist/Eastern Philosophy teachings.

You are wallowing in contrived muck (antagonism) in an effort to vilify me (because you don't agree with my position on the 3ABN issues) and as an attempt to make of no concern the information that is presented. What you don't do, is address anything that is contained in this content - or the importance of the global television station touting itself as the official station of the Adventist faith providing this type of programming with this presenter. Now, if you are in support of Blanchard then offer information that proves wrong what has been presented - it will certainly make for very enlightening discussion.

Additionally, it isn't my commentary. As I posted, if you Google Blanchard, the second non-commercial link is the one containing the information I presented (if that isn't clear in my words then I am remiss.) The links at the bottom of course are not my commentary. Unlike the save/not group I am not providing any slanting commentary - merely presenting the information for consideration and discussion. I am not pitting 3ABN against Hope . . . I am merely brining to notice a rather concerning piece of information that fits within the context of this discussion. Again, if you subscribe to Blanchard's form of Christianity, I would be interested in hearing your side of things. IMHO what we have here is a man who couched himself as a Christian, to gain wider exposure, who then through his association and affirmation has shown that he is in full support of everything from Transcendental Meditation to a blending of "the best" of each religion into one that works for the individual. This doesn't seem to be the type of programming that one would hope to see on ANY television station that has worked with or is run by the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

- FHB

What do you mean "if the links are not formated" as they are in the article? You know they're not. You must have spent a great deal of time transferring them to your long OP here, in great detail, as if it were important, but no link provided to where you borrowed the article from? Very strange. I was curious if you had permission to post the article, not if it was reprinted word for word. I don't have any opinions about Blanchard. Never heard of him before you posted here. And I won't be watching his TV programs on Hope. I do think you should have the courtesy to see if his presentations will have anything to do with the subtle insinuations you are connecting him with--I'd give the Hope Channel the benefit of having seen something valuable enough to share first, if it were me trying to dig up something on your competitor...which appears to be the real intent.

Ah, but if you have any comparative values at all, it does matter the way letusreason.org presents its opinions on the various issues it covers, like SDAs. That alone could give valuable insight, or at least fair warning for a healthy dose of reluctance in swallowing everything they say, hook line and sinker. But what Faith! I do marvel at you.

No, your premonition that I am "wallowing in contrived muck (antagonism) in an effort to vilify me (because you don't agree with my position on the 3ABN issues)" is false. Fairness can also be an issue (to anyone reading here) when the guilt thing is overlooked as the first cause.

BTW, that letusreason article doesn't come up within the first few pages googling Blanchard, or Ken Blanchard.

[fallible humanbe...]

What do you mean "if the links are not formated" as they are in the article? You know they're not.

Again . . . minutia . . . each link is associated with exactly what it was on the original presentation. As I said, if it isn't exactly the same words, then report me and see what the author/web master says. I didn't edit a single word out, the entire presentation is there . . . you are dealing in minutia . . . my guess is the author wouldn't mind at all that I used his article in the context I did.

You must have spent a great deal of time transferring them to your long OP here, in great detail, as if it were important, but no link provided to where you borrowed the article from?

I provided you with all you needed to get the link. Do a Google on Blanchard (use kenneth blanchard, religion), click the second non-commercial link and see what pops up. That is exactly the process I followed. I didn't go to Hope's web site other than to look for some specifics about how they identify themselves - and that was the information that appeared, so I Googled Blanchard and that is what I found.

Very strange. I was curious if you had permission to post the article, not if it was reprinted word for word.

The copyright appears this way:

© 2006 No portion of this site is to be copied or used unless kept in its original format the way it appears. Articles can be reproduced in portions for ones personal use, any other use is to have the permission of the author first. Thank You.

The formating is original. If you are going to quibble over the amount of words used to link to his outside links than thank you for proving my point about the minutia. The use of the editor in bsda does not allow for copying information and pasting it with links in tact. Again, the links I provided are in exactly the same location and the only difference is they may contain more than the words used in the original.

I don't have any opinions about Blanchard. Never heard of him before you posted here. And I won't be watching his TV programs on Hope. I do think you should have the courtesy to see if his presentations will have anything to do with the subtle insinuations you are connecting him with--I'd give the Hope Channel the benefit of having seen something valuable enough to share first, if it were me trying to dig up something on your competitor...which appears to be the real intent.

So you are saying I should have the same courtesy as Eve, listen to what is said even if it is subtle lie cloaked in the garb of truth in order to mislead? Should Eve politely listened to the serpent? Or should she have listened to the words of her God and left the minute he began to lead her astray?

You have missed the whole point . . . there is legitimate concern about someone on the "official" network of the Seventh-day Adventist Church talking about leadership when they have endorsed the practices that are opposite to those espoused by the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

Ah, but if you have any comparative values at all, it does matter the way letusreason.org presents its opinions on the various issues it covers, like SDAs. That alone could give valuable insight, or at least fair warning for a healthy dose of reluctance in swallowing everything they say, hook line and sinker. But what Faith! I do marvel at you.

So again, your advice is to wander into the den and see if the lions bite?

No, your premonition that I am "wallowing in contrived muck (antagonism) in an effort to vilify me (because you don't agree with my position on the 3ABN issues)" is false. Fairness can also be an issue (to anyone reading here) when the guilt thing is overlooked as the first cause.

BTW, that letusreason article doesn't come up within the first few pages googling Blanchard, or Ken Blanchard.

See above . . .

- FHB

[LaurenceD]

I think you've answered your own questions quite adequately, and mine too. Thanks.

[SoulEspresso]

My $0.02 ... the post on Blanchard was helpful, but it really reminded me of the save3abn post on Larry Romrell ... informative in some respects, but really peripheral to known issues ... All our channels ought to strive for high levels of biblical integrity, no matter where that takes us; and the leaders of the organizations ought to be free of any appearances of evil.

This post has been edited by SoulEspresso: Aug 23 2007, 11:44 PM

[fallible humanbe...]

Maybe Soul,

I can see how one could draw a very loose parallel to the LR situation, but I think there is a distinct difference. I post the information because we have discussed content on numerous occasions in my short time at bsda . . . I did not go to the Hope website with the intent on looking for what I found . . . rather I was interested in their "About Us" page and what it said about the network. I didn't get there until much later because this popped up first on my screen and I had heard, at some point, about Blanchard's connections to philosophies that don't mesh with the teaching of Christ.

I think there is arguably a distinct difference in the discussion about LR and this one about Hope airing a series featuring Blanchard. There has been an issue about the message that 3ABN provides to the world, it has been hammered at from all angles in an effort to make it of none effect. When I happened across this it struck me that this is as relevant and deserving of consideration and discussion as any point on the content of the networks working to spread the Gospel message.

I agree with your call for integrity, and by that I feel you mean spiritual integrity. Now, could Blanchard have a series of programs that support the Seventh-day Adventist message - maybe, but it wouldn't seem likely given the information that is out there . . . shall we take a chance? Would you fell comfortable inviting him to present his series at your church? You have brought up the seriousness of sheparding newly accepting believers and I think it would be dangerous to put them into his hands, don't you? You have talked about the differing levels of understanding that a Christian goes through as their walk with the Lord develops . . . would you place any in a place where the chances that they be led astray might be great?

LR is an active Seventh-day Adventist who has given time, money, energy to the spreading of the gospel message. There has been much speculation with no definitive proof here or at the save/not site. However, there is a wealth of information that shows where Blanchard places himself with the issue of New Age spiritualism. One can go to book sites like Amazon and read Blanchard's words on the front covers, the back covers, you can find there substantial reviews of the content of books he has roundly endorsed (including one written by a professed clairvoyant about death.)

As far as the accusations against LR, there has yet to be evidence of wrong doing, no proof has been forth coming from the accusers to support their intended desire to cast perceptual aspersions on him.

We do have a clear picture of where Blanchard stands, is this someone that, though his ideas on management might be sound, we would want to see talking about spiritual leadership? Even if he agrees to filter out all the New Age/Spiritualist rhetoric, do you want to take that risk? What if a new believer in your church picks up the book Mind Like Water because Blanchard wrote the forward and reads the following in the book:

"How did the old man know to refuse the offer of a ride? How did he know that he would save time by walking? Presumably he was relying on inner knowing - the ability to know a thing completely and all at once without relying on sensory data. If we could train this inner knowing, what a strategic advantage we would gain in a world pf everyday confusion and unpredictability! We could size up a new situation right away and assess its possibilities. We could know immediately whether to trust a person or situation. When others were confused by a sudden, unexpected turn of events, we could use it to advantage. We could avoid going down every wrong path. We could make speedy decisions that always turned out right."

No mention of reliance on God for direction. No mention of a connection to a God who leads us and guides us."Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death I will fear no evil, for though are with me." There is the suggestion, however, that one can achieve God-likeness and always avoid going down the wrong path by completely depending on their own perfect discerning. Where is God in the selection from the book - a book heartily endorsed by Blanchard, receiving his pen for its forward?

I think there is a large difference between the LR issue with the save/not site and bringing this issue to discussion.

- FHB

My $0.02 ... the post on Blanchard was helpful, but it really reminded me of the save3abn post on Larry Romrell ... informative in some respects, but really peripheral to known issues ... All our channels ought to strive for high levels of biblical integrity, no matter where that takes us; and the leaders of the organizations ought to be free of any appearances of evil.

[lowender]

Fallible Human Being...

Do you believe that Danny Shelton is intellectually honest?

Do you believe he had Biblical grounds for divorce?

Do you really believe his lawsuits are necessary?

Can you honestly say you didn't cringe when you found out he was marrying a girl younger than his own daughter?

[4reneyonly]

So let's just start the BSDA Channel...I got five on it

[Johann]

My $0.02 ... the post on Blanchard was helpful, but it really reminded me of the save3abn post on Larry Romrell ... informative in some respects, but really peripheral to known issues ... All our channels ought to strive for high levels of biblical integrity, no matter where that takes us; and the leaders of the organizations ought to be free of any appearances of evil.

Larry Romrell is on the board of 3ABN. If Blanchard is on the board of HOPE it escaped my attention.

[watchbird]

So let's just start the BSDA Channel...I got five on it

How about us just backing LLBN instead... they're worldwide too, you know.... and they are improving every day...