3abn Diverts Tithe From The Sda Church, ... and admits it on air! Options

[Artiste]

I would only add that sin is not imputed when there is no law (Rom. 5:13). So while it may still be sin, it may not be imputed or put to our account.

While Rahab did receive the spies and did by faith not perish, and while she did not break the 9th commandment by hiding the spies, I would not go so far as to say that she did not break the 9th commandment when she lied. Whether God imputed sin regarding her lie is another question.

What about the fact that the ninth commandment forbids bearing false witness *against* your neighbor? I thought that Rahab's "false witness" was for the benefit of her neighbor.


**************************************************

This post has been edited by Artiste: Aug 9 2007, 12:25 AM

[Daryl Fawcett]

Therefore, it is OK to bear false witness "for" your neighbour?

[appletree]

According to a mutual friend I talked to who is a keen observer right on the spot at the convention.

With all due respect, I was also at the convention. I was fortunate enough to have "inside" views from leaders of ASI, some of the major supporters of ASI and also some conference officials. I know where they stand on the 3abn issue. It is with full support. There was no huge happening or event that "turned" them from 3abn. They support many ministries and evangelism opportunities all over the world. This would apply to the Sweden situation. I fear that maybe you have been mislead and for that I am sorry. My personal opinion is that the same person that told lies to A Today about the ASI convention may be the one that mislead you.
This may be Off Topic and does not apply to you Johann but I would also like to squelch the rumor that Shelley Quinn is in the running for CEO of 3abn. She is not. This a fact and not speculation.

[Artiste]

With all due respect, I was also at the convention. I was fortunate enough to have "inside" views from leaders of ASI, some of the major supporters of ASI and also some conference officials. I know where they stand on the 3abn issue. It is with full support. There was no huge happening or event that "turned" them from 3abn. They support many ministries and evangelism opportunities all over the world. This would apply to the Sweden situation. I fear that maybe you have been mislead and for that I am sorry. My personal opinion is that the same person that told lies to A Today about the ASI convention may be the one that mislead you.
This may be Off Topic and does not apply to you Johann but I would also like to squelch the rumor that Shelley Quinn is in the running for CEO of 3abn. She is not. This a fact and not speculation.

You seem to get around, appletree.

**********************************************

This post has been edited by Artiste: Aug 9 2007, 07:17 PM

[Pickle]

What about the fact that the ninth commandment forbids bearing false witness *against* your neighbor? I thought that Rahab's "false witness" was for the benefit of her neighbor.

"False speaking in any matter, every attempt or purpose to deceive our neighbor, is here included. An intention to deceive is what constitutes falsehood. By a glance of the eye, a motion of the hand, an expression of the countenance, a falsehood may be told as effectually as by words. All intentional overstatement, every hint or insinuation calculated to convey an erroneous or exaggerated impression, even the statement of facts in such a manner as to mislead, is falsehood. This precept forbids every effort to injure our neighbor's reputation by misrepresentation or evil surmising, by slander or tale bearing. Even the intentional suppression of truth, by which injury may result to others, is a violation of the ninth commandment" (PP 309).

[Artiste]

"False speaking in any matter, every attempt or purpose to deceive our neighbor, is here included. An intention to deceive is what constitutes falsehood. By a glance of the eye, a motion of the hand, an expression of the countenance, a falsehood may be told as effectually as by words. All intentional overstatement, every hint or insinuation calculated to convey an erroneous or exaggerated impression, even the statement of facts in such a manner as to mislead, is falsehood. This precept forbids every effort to injure our neighbor's reputation by misrepresentation or evil surmising, by slander or tale bearing. Even the intentional suppression of truth, by which injury may result to others, is a violation of the ninth commandment" (PP 309).

Here again, the emphasis is on avoiding injury to others--as in "thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor"

******************************************

This post has been edited by Artiste: Aug 9 2007, 09:29 PM

[Pickle]

Artiste, is the following redaction permissible, based on the grammar of the sentence?

"False speaking in any matter, every attempt or purpose to deceive our neighbor, is here included."

"False speaking in any matter ... is here included."

It seems to me that "false speaking in any matter" does not have to be limited to "deceive our neighbor," based on how the sentence reads.

[appletree]

An interesting development at this convention is why ASI suddenly diverts their attention away from 3ABN and towards LifeStyleTV in Europe?

I do not know if the LifeStyle TV is the same one that I heard about in Sweden? If so, Danny Shelton was on the committee that chose to give some financing to that ministry. They show 90% 3abn programming. They were given 10,000.00. That doesn't sound like a diversion of any kind to me.
Johann if this is not the same ministry just disregard my information.

[PeacefulBe]

"False speaking in any matter, every attempt or purpose to deceive our neighbor, is here included. An intention to deceive is what constitutes falsehood. By a glance of the eye, a motion of the hand, an expression of the countenance, a falsehood may be told as effectually as by words. All intentional overstatement, every hint or insinuation calculated to convey an erroneous or exaggerated impression, even the statement of facts in such a manner as to mislead, is falsehood. This precept forbids every effort to injure our neighbor's reputation by misrepresentation or evil surmising, by slander or tale bearing. Even the intentional suppression of truth, by which injury may result to others, is a violation of the ninth commandment" (PP 309).

Wonderful words of counsel to take to heart and live by and conduct all of our affairs by, IMO.

This post has been edited by PeacefullyBewildered: Aug 9 2007, 10:30 PM

[Artiste]

Artiste, is the following redaction permissible, based on the grammar of the sentence?

"False speaking in any matter, every attempt or purpose to deceive our neighbor, is here included."

"False speaking in any matter ... is here included."

It seems to me that "false speaking in any matter" does not have to be limited to "deceive our neighbor," based on how the sentence reads.

Probably.

*****************************************

[Pickle]

If so, Danny Shelton was on the committee that chose to give some financing to that ministry.

Specifically, what committee is that?

[Johann]

I do not know if the LifeStyle TV is the same one that I heard about in Sweden? If so, Danny Shelton was on the committee that chose to give some financing to that ministry.

I'd also like to know which committee that was