3abn Diverts Tithe From The Sda Church, ... and admits it on air! Options

[Richard Sherwin]

A bit OT but I was talking the other day to a guy who is somewhat aquainted with Denzil and he said that while Garwin has been a big backer of 3abn his son Denzil has been a big contributer to Hope TV. Has anyone else heard this or is it just a rumor?

Richard

[Pickle]

By the way, Bob, is Pickle Publishing a member of ASI? I am sure you have been too busy to attend the ASI Convention.

I have applied for membership, and have not yet heard that my application has been approved. I guess I will need to contact Donna McNeilus sometime soon and see how the process is coming. I talked to Ron Christman a few weeks prior to the ASI Convention, and had an excellent chat with him. Hopefully I'll hear something soon.

[reader]

Mark Finley was on the platform in an interview on Sabbath morning--does that count as
new 3ABN programing or ASI programing???

This post has been edited by reader: Aug 5 2007, 12:02 PM

[Artiste]

When I mentioned these facts to a senior leader who has been the president of two different Unions, he commented that such a division takes place when unlimited amounts of dollars rule our mission.

I take this to mean that the controlling factor here is the money flowing from ASI to the Seventh-day Adventist church.

Money speaks.

Do we really agree with ASI controlling the Seventh-day Adventist church by financial means?

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This post has been edited by Artiste: Aug 5 2007, 02:26 PM

[Artiste]

I have applied for membership, and have not yet heard that my application has been approved. I guess I will need to contact Donna McNeilus sometime soon and see how the process is coming. I talked to Ron Christman a few weeks prior to the ASI Convention, and had an excellent chat with him. Hopefully I'll hear something soon.

Let's see if ASI is able to put aside its bias towards 3ABN and allow "the other side" to have a place in ASI also.

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[appletree]

A bit OT but I was talking the other day to a guy who is somewhat aquainted with Denzil and he said that while Garwin has been a big backer of 3abn his son Denzil has been a big contributer to Hope TV. Has anyone else heard this or is it just a rumor?

Richard

I believe it is a rumor. Denzil is very supportive of 3abn. As far as the subject of tithe goes, I had to chuckle at the word "divert" for this thread. Obviously there are people who send their tithe to 3abn but how that could account for the phrase that "3abn diverts tithe from the church" is beyond me. People make their own decisions on what to do with their tithes and offerings. Surely it is common knowledge that people also send their tithe to Amazing Facts, It is Written, Voice of Prophecy, The Carter Report and I am sure that there will be those who send their tithe to Hope. None of these ministries are guilty of "diverting" anything. Where people choose to send their tithe is, I believe, is between them and God. I for one am thankful that there are those who choose to support these ministries. They would not succeed otherwise and we as a church would be missing out on the many blessings that they provide.

[Artiste]

... Denzil is very supportive of 3abn ...

I believe that the whole Mcneilus family have been very supportive of 3ABN, perhaps too supportive.

This in part is what has led up to the present problem of Garwin McNeils putting pressure on the SDA church as well as Amazing Facts in the past to try to bring 3ABN into his desired state of being.


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This post has been edited by Artiste: Aug 7 2007, 11:18 PM

[SoulEspresso]

None of these ministries are guilty of "diverting" anything. Where people choose to send their tithe is, I believe, is between them and God. I for one am thankful that there are those who choose to support these ministries. They would not succeed otherwise and we as a church would be missing out on the many blessings that they provide.

Yeah, but don't ASI ministries have to send the money back if they know it's tithe?

[Brick Step]

The individual who makes a free-will choicecontribution (be it first, second, third tithe, offering, or whatever) to any ministry (denominations included) is responsible for giving those funds.

If the individual chooses to give to a denomination, then the individual is "diverting" funds from another ministry, or vice-versa.

It is not 3ABN (or any other ministry) that diverts funds from the SDA Church. The individual who makes a choice does.

All ministries/organizations dependent on voluntary giving/tithing (3ABN, Quiet Hour, VOP, SDA, Baptist, etc) is subject to the Elijah message of "No Rain". As paraphrased by Hudson Taylor "God's work done God's way will not lack God's funds."

Well said, amesj! "God's work done God's way will not lack God's funds."

[Brick Step]

... I had to chuckle at the word "divert" for this thread. Obviously there are people who send their tithe to 3abn but how that could account for the phrase that "3abn diverts tithe from the church" is beyond me. People make their own decisions on what to do with their tithes and offerings. Surely it is common knowledge that people also send their tithe to Amazing Facts, It is Written, Voice of Prophecy, The Carter Report and I am sure that there will be those who send their tithe to Hope. None of these ministries are guilty of "diverting" anything. Where people choose to send their tithe is, I believe, is between them and God. I for one am thankful that there are those who choose to support these ministries. They would not succeed otherwise and we as a church would be missing out on the many blessings that they provide.

I must agree with 'appletree' on this point.

[princessdi]

However, do any of these ministries, "advertise" the fact that they will receive tithe. I believe that it is the annoucement, actual reading of the letter(s), which says that 3ABN is agreeable and open to such. This furthering the belief that 3ABN is not truly a part or supporter of the Adventist church, even though for more than 20 years they have given every indication that they are. I believe hte revelation of them describing themselves as " a nondenominal ministry with a non denominal message" is a bit more than some members(giving members inparticular) of "The Remnant" church can take. Somebody correct me if I am wrong, the majority of 3ABN financial supporters are Adventist, are they not? We all know that Adventist are a "special" people called to spread God's unique "special" message. For 20+ years 3ABN has proclaimed to believe that also. Now to divest themselves of association with the people and the message, is not a wise move. Add that on top of now letting your viewers know that you will "accept" their tithe, viewers which are predominantly Adventiest.......and maybe you can see the problem and why a thread by this title might come about.........

I believe it is a rumor. Denzil is very supportive of 3abn. As far as the subject of tithe goes, I had to chuckle at the word "divert" for this thread. Obviously there are people who send their tithe to 3abn but how that could account for the phrase that "3abn diverts tithe from the church" is beyond me. People make their own decisions on what to do with their tithes and offerings. Surely it is common knowledge that people also send their tithe to Amazing Facts, It is Written, Voice of Prophecy, The Carter Report and I am sure that there will be those who send their tithe to Hope. None of these ministries are guilty of "diverting" anything. Where people choose to send their tithe is, I believe, is between them and God. I for one am thankful that there are those who choose to support these ministries. They would not succeed otherwise and we as a church would be missing out on the many blessings that they provide.

[Rosyroi]

$ounds like de$peration to me...

other monie$ are not comming in from other $ource$, so Danny ha$ to go to the top of the donation ladder. I under$tand that folk are reque$ting their tru$t monie$ back and regular doner monie$ going down... so...

JMHO

Ro$yroi

[Richard Sherwin]

Ya I was kind of surprised when I heard that Denzil would be backing hope. When his daughter went to our academy I heard him speak several times but never heard (that I remember) him mention either 3abn or Hope. So when I heard that he was backing hope I'd thought I'd ask if anyone knew or not. Thanks.

I believe that the whole Mcneilus family have been very supportive of 3ABN, perhaps too supportive.

This in part is what has led up to the present problem of Garwin McNeils putting pressure on the SDA church as well as Amazing Facts in the past to try to bring 3ABN into his desired state of being.
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[Brick Step]

In the book of Daniel, the wisdom of the wise men of Babylon is placed in tension with the wisdom of Daniel and his friends, and the wisdom of Daniel and his friends is shown to be far superior to that of Babylon’s wise men, and triumphs marvellously over it. At the last we are told, “Those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the firmament, and those who turn many to righteousness like the stars for ever and ever.” “Many shall be purified, made white, and refined, but the wicked shall do wickedly; and none of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand.” Daniel 12:3, 10 (NKJV). The wise, those with discernment, especially spiritual discernment, are obviously the saints, the saved ones. They are defined as those who “shall be purified, made white, and refined.” They are the ones who have bowed to the biblical counsel that “the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.” Psalms 111:10. They are those who truly love God supremely, and their neighbours unselfishly.

It is obvious that the wisdom of those serving God clashes continually with the “wisdom” of those who fail to fully surrender to the refining process He advises and supervises. I do not wish to judge those who might apply Bible principles differently in some situations. I obviously do not have all knowledge. Not one of us is infallible or can claim never to have erred. But I believe this thread has again raised some very important issues as to what is right and what is wrong.

I have some questions:-

QUESTION 1. Were the twelve Israelite spies wrong when, without permission from the Canaanites, they entered their land to check it out?
BIBLE ANSWER. No! The twelve spies were sent into Canaan by Moses, acting under God, who had promised the land to the Israelites. If the Canaanites had chosen to cast in their lot with the Israelites, they would have been saved. Deuteronomy 1.

QUESTION 2. Was Rahab guilty of treason and of breaking the ninth commandment when she hid Joshua’s two spies, and sent Jericho’s soldiers searching for them elsewhere?
BIBLE ANSWER. No! “By faith the prostitute Rahab did not perish with those who did not believe, when she had received the spies with peace.” Heb 11:31.

QUESTION 3. Was God guilty of murder when he caused the flood to destroy all except Noah and his family inside the ark?
BIBLE ANSWER. No! Opportunity for repentance and salvation had been offered and refused. Probation had closed for the disobedient.

QUESTION 4. Was David guilty of breaking the eighth commandment when without permission he cut off a corner of King Saul’s garment, then held it up as evidence not of his guilt, but of his own innocence?
BIBLE ANSWER. No! Even Saul cried out to David, “You are more righteous than I: for you have rewarded me with good [producing the piece of cloth as evidence he could have killed Saul, but refrained from doing so], whereas I have rewarded you with evil [by seeking to kill David]. 1 Samuel 24.

These are just four of numerous examples of deeds the Bible says are righteous in God’s eyes, but which deeds were, are, or might be considered evil and law-breaking by the unbelieving world.

It is clear that nobody can understand the Ten Commandments and how and when to apply them, unless they begin at the right place. That right place is on our knees before God and His word, humble and contrite in spirit.

If we do not begin surrendered to God’s claim that He is the mighty Deliverer, and His eternal command to love Him supremely and all others unselfishly, we will end up on the wrong side of the great controversy between Christ and Satan. Like the Pharisees—and quite unlike the good Samaritan—we will point to the care with which we have obeyed the letter of the law, while betraying our neighbours, trampling all over their needs and rights, and becoming a hindrance to God's cause.

It is remembrance of the above biblical counsels which causes me also to stand back and wait for further input in regard to the application of some issues and principles being discussed here.

[Pickle]

I would only add that sin is not imputed when there is no law (Rom. 5:13). So while it may still be sin, it may not be imputed or put to our account.

While Rahab did receive the spies and did by faith not perish, and while she did not break the 9th commandment by hiding the spies, I would not go so far as to say that she did not break the 9th commandment when she lied. Whether God imputed sin regarding her lie is another question.