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> Letter From Gailon Joy
sonshineonme
post Aug 11 2007, 10:37 PM
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I write to Gailon often, upon discussing some things, he replied to my one of my emails with this response, and I decided I wanted to share it with my bsda family and friends, lurkers and anyone that reads here. Maybe it will help with some questions that others might wonder about, or others who would like a bigger insight in to some details of how things come to be. In any case, if you are interested, this is his comments on the "MicroEvolution" of the DS Shelton mess, and how when a man's journey begins by looking in to some things, it turns in to much more then was expected, and soon begins to uncover what has turned out to be not only deeply dissapointing, but also something that I feel christians, and maybe even SDA's especially, can learn something from. My prayer has always been that God wake up His people everywhere, and sometimes it takes something huge to get His children to open their eyes, learn and become prepared for even bigger things to come, God help us all.
********************************************************************************
***********
For what it may be worth to you, here is the email from Gailon:


3ABN RESOLUTION- IS THERE ONE?
Gailon Arthur Joy, AUReporter

I recently received a copy of the following post and it certainly requires a reply.

When I read the above post by SE on another thread it struck me that I wasn't certain what this was all about. For those who feel that enormous abuses have occurred at 3abn, and I fall into that camp, what will it take for us to be satisfied that justice has been done? I was somewhat surprised to find that I wasn't really certain what the end game was.

The answer is a story of MicroEvolution.

The 3ABN Investigation began rather relunctantly for me. I had accepted at face value the assertion that Linda had gone off with some doctor to Norway and Danny was a hapless victim of a passionate interloper.
I had many requests to look at various pieces of evidence and ignored them. Even when Danny announced his plans to remarry in a Knoxville Meeting in early 2006, and many raised the eyebrow, I refused to take the bait.

When several of my friends from New England met with me and expressed concern about the loss of the 3ABN signal on Skyangel I wondered what would be plaguing this ministry, but still refused to investigate.
I did some background on Skyangel and noted it had recently taken on a CEO that was a lawyer and assumed some contractual issue was in debate between the parties and would self-resolve. I had no basis to suspect a breach of contract by 3ABN.

When they launched the Ten Commandments Twice Removed campaign in March and April 2006, a small group of us in the College Church embraced the project, took delivery in late April and passed out over six thousand books in about three weeks. Ray and I even went door to door in the spring rains some evenings after work to get it done before Ten Commandments week-end.

My family, Aunts, Uncles and cousins had always been 3ABN supporters. Some even have appeared on 3ABN programs. Following the Ten Commandment Week-end I found a story a week arriving by Fax or
e-mail and ignored them all. Then the ASI Meeting in Texas seemed to break open a wellspring of information regarding a number of issues from the remarriage of Danny and staffers, to lucrative and undisclosed book deals, to concerns about the charismatic leaning of some of the management at 3ABN.

It was not until about a week after ASI that Rey and I received an unsolicited fax known as the Dryden Letter and some supporting documents that seemed to indicate the programming director and Pianist Extraordinaire’ had a serious history of under-aged male gender relationships of a highly inappropriate nature. I immediately checked the various state and federal sex offender websites and found nothing. Shortly after receiving the fax, a compatriot of many a trench war within Adventism called me and asked if it was true I had just received a fax relating to Tommy Shelton. I admitted I had and declared it an obvious hoax. He took real exception to the hoax issue and said this required closer examination and asked if I would look much more closely at the evidence before I blindly caste it aside. I reluctantly agreed to at least follow-up on the available leads and the rest is a history of profound and compelling findings.

My first call was to a lady who told me that she had not believed the story at first but felt the evidence was now overwhelming and told a story of a thriving Ezra Church of God pastored by Tommy Shelton for several years complete with a community church school that even Linda Shelton’s children had attended. She told me how the allegations virtually tore the church asunder as it separated into Pastor Shelton supporters and an ever growing list of victims and their supporters. She explained the victims had tried to file complaints but the Sheriff was a Shelton Family friend and the DA had not moved on the allegations. And she told me that Dryden had attempted to resolve the issues but simply found himself over-whelmed with the process and took an opportunity to return to his Home church in Dunn Loring, Va. She gave me a contact number for Drydens now mature son and I left a message for him. Later that evening I received a number of calls from victims and a Victim’s mother and they
gave me compelling stories of inappropriate relationships.

I was a bit dewildered and felt compelled to research these allegations. As my witness list grew past a handful to dozens more voluntarily calling to give me their story or a story they felt I should investigate. The file became all consuming. Every day my work would be interrupted with call-backs from various witnesses and every evening I spent doing more and more interviews. I was so stunned by the variety of allegations I confided in a group of conservative colleagues and we pondered on how to proceed.

We had clear allegations of wrong-doing on the part of former pastor Tommy Shelton, now the program director that had replaced Linda Shelton. And that Danny had pre-empted a prior board decision in re-hiring Tommy after he was removed over a decade earlier.

I had allegations that seemed to indicate Linda was the victim of UN-due process and a hyper-active imagination and collective corporate paranoia at 3ABN.

I had allegations that Danny Lee Shelton had inappropriate relationships or had made inappropriate advances with a number of ladies, including the current Spouse.

I had allegations Danny had re-routed 3ABN funds to pay Brandy after it was determined it was best she be relieved of her 3ABN duties and allowed to work for Danny Directly.

I had allegations of a host of inappropriate property deals, including a thwarted effort to transfer a very valuable land and buildings across from the DLS homestead to Brandy prior to the marriage.

I had allegations DLS had enriched himself at the expense of 3ABN and its donors from undisclosed book royalty deals.

I had allegations that five staffers of the 3ABN Trust services department were victims of retaliation and some had clearly been discriminated against by 3ABN Management.

I had allegations of personal inurement by Danny Lee Shelton and his family via the abusive use of the corporate jet, and the use of a variety of gifts given by donors to 3ABN.

And I had a post office employee mis-appropriation story where Danny avoided a postal audit with a strong bout of forgiveness by DLS for what was assumed to be at least a quarter million dollar claim against the US Postal System.

I continued to work my way from the outside in so that when I spoke to Danny Lee Shelton, Tommy Shelton and Linda Shelton, et al, I would have as clear a picture as possible of all the allegations as I was certain I may only get one chance to interview, based on the experience of AToday and others. At some point I discovered the collateral investigative efforts of Robert Pickle and we exchanged notes.

I did open a line of communications directly with Danny Lee Shelton and continued until he refused to answer e-mails and blocked me. His very first communication included the threat to turn me over to his lawyers. The communication continued for some weeks as he discovered I was undeterred by the fear of litigation.

I also opened a line of communications with 3ABN Board Chairman Walter Thompson and found him far less forthcoming, other than to parrot Danny’s position. Many times I discovered the information was factually challenged or not corroborated by other witnesses by both Danny and Walt. In Walts defense, it became apparent he was operating from the dis-advantage of being a third party to much of the actual evidence and seemed to simply follow Dannys lead.

After I had covered every reasonable base at the time, I then accepted the offer to speak with Linda Sue Shelton. I had pages of questions. The interview began at 9:00 pm and went until 4:00 am EST, a full seven hours and I can safely say she answered every blunt question and every accusation leveled by Danny and Walt Thompson graciously, factually and with a clear upbeat Christian attitude. Seven hours of interview gave me much to compare and I quickly discovered that what she told me was largely corroborated by other witnesses. I also discovered she had no idea what went on regarding 3ABN business and this was confirmed by several staffers and 3ABN General Counsel, Nicholas Miller. She was engrossed in programming, albeit under the watchful eye of Danny and his minions.

Since the very first concern that was documented related to Tommy Shelton, I sent an e-mail to 3ABN directors calling for an investigation. There was not a single reply. Bob and I continued to investigate the allegations and he even agreed to make a trip to 3ABN to view the Linda Evidence and was denied at the last moment. That was clearly the very first objective, to get the board to take its fiduciary and oversight responsibility seriously. Our effort clearly failed.

At some point I received a call from a Vice President of the General Conference whose plea was that the investigation and reports therefrom not do harm to the cause of SDA Ministry. He had been a witness at the May 2004 3ABN campmeeting attended by Arild Abrahamsen and Pastor Johann Thorvaldson who had arrived to address the board of Directors regarding allegations of an inappropriate telephone relationship. The Shelton posse and Danny Lee Shelton ordered them off the property and were confrontational, making it clear they were not welcome to return to testify before the board on Sunday, and this after a trip of more than 4,000 miles (So much for due process once again). The VP gave me a statement that clearly contradicted several assertions by Danny Lee Shelton and lead me to believe it was clear to VP that Linda and Arild were not guilty of any purported adultery, spiritual or otherwise, but he had hoped the marital issues would not end in divorce. He then promised to work toward
an ecclesiastical solution to the allegations. From this and a couple other discussions came the concept that the church had no authority but ASI did. ASI was asked to help to mediate the allegations. The rest is ASI history, or infamy.

With ASI slowly and reluctantly working to establish this first of its kind ecclesiastical process to utilize Alternative Dispute Resolution to deal with the allegations at 3ABN, we became deeply concerned by the failure of the 3ABN Board to show an ounce of interest in dealing with the allegations themselves. Robert Pickle actually met with Illinois Conference President Denzlow, an ex officio board member, and virtually dismissed the allegations as foundationless after picking up the phone and calling 3ABN to affirm or deny. Following several efforts at discussions it became clear the board was blind to any wrongdoing, refused to become involved directly in any investigation, but did pawn it off to ASI in the hopes they would deal with it and relieve them of any culpability. This was clearly a gross abrogation of the fiduciary and oversight responsibilities of the 3ABN Board. And this abrogation was a pattern alleged by several victims over 3ABNs twenty three year history. It was
this refusal to look at any allegations that lead to the elimination of other founders and even Sheltons concerned with maintaining a modicum of generally acceptable accounting principles required of a public ministry soliciting funds from Seventh-day Adventist parishioners. This issue clearly required a closer look.

When we recognized just how pervasive the problem is at 3ABN, just how engrained into the culture and management at 3ABN and realized there was simply no accountability for Danny Lee Shelton, regardless of the allegation and scope of the problem, with this hand-picked directorate by DLS, we had no choice but to conclude that the real issue was governance. A governance that has no accountability to the people that make it all happen day by day, week by week, month by month and year by year is ungoverned. It is simply autocratic with no real accountability.

A corporation has accountability to the stockholders that put up the money to create the business. The donors are defacto stockholders in the ministry that solicits funds from the parishioners and we respectfully refer to them as the stockholders in the pews. Therefore, given the breadth of the support solicited and the source of the vast majority of the support rendered over the years, it is my simple premise that the major issue that must be addressed at 3ABN, and other ministries now and in the future, is that of governance. A constituency that represented the parishioners of the Seventh-day Adventist church that would select the directors and officers of 3ABN would have been a significant deterrent to many of the issues at 3ABN.
Governance with accountability to the stockholders in the pews, is a minimum requirement. It is the standard adopted by the Seventh-day Adventist church a hundred years ago and we so quickly forget.

The other very clear requirement is as simple as logic. If a ministry is allowed to solicit funds from the stockholders in the pews, then the stockholders should know that the auditing firm that audits the ministry should report to the stockholders. No ministry should be allowed to solicit support from the Seventh-day Adventist church parishioners without submitting to an Audit by the General Conference Auditing Department. If it mandatory for churches, then it should be the more mandatory for ministries.

As to the frequent questions of what we demand to settle such a case; ie: what is the end game?:

It is not our place to demand repentance, public confession and reformation. That is the job of the Holy Spirit. If the Spirit calls for this then we warn against grieving that Spirit and do believe it would be most cathartic if done properly.

If offenses have been committed that require some form of payment for their debt to society, that is the problem of society to render such a judgment. It is the duty of the Attorney General to investigate complaints of abuses for non-profits in Illinois. And the problem of the IRS to investigate violations of Federal Regulations for 501c3s and for the IRS or a Federal Court to determine if the 200% penalty for undisclosed personal inurement of officers or directors needs redress. The victims need to band together and determine just what their options are regarding Tommy Shelton and pursue those options with vigor.

It is not our place to demand that Linda return to 3ABN. It is not even likely that it would be possible in a properly governed entity. And we have never set that as a goal of this investigation. As to whether she deserves compensation for the alleged defamation and other damages she may have incurred from this hideous lack of due process, we leave that to some proper juris prudence, whether conciliation, ADR or a court of competent jurisdiction. The simple point is it has never been our purpose to re-instate Linda. It has been our purpose to expose the truth that she might have a chance at pursuing her own ministry in whatever form.

We most certainly do not intend to take over the ministry. It would be impossible and probably highly undesirable. It belongs to the parishioners and to the parishioners it should be returned. That is my uncompromising goal.

The most important point is that 3ABN needs a new constitution that grants the parishioners the accountability they deserve, that gives them the power to select directors and officers and that requires an audit by GC Auditing department with a report to the representatives of the parishioners. I sincerely believe the core problem is governance. Resolve governance and the rest simply falls into place. 3ABN will have a real constituency that will support 3ABN and return it to its position of its special mission to a seriously defective and lost world. Until this issue has been addressed it has not earned the right to exist as a supporting ministry of the Seventh-day Adventist church and does not deserve the parishioners support.

Beyond these issues, we simply report the allegations that come our way and take liberty to editorialize as it relates to specific issues. We are writers and reporters. We simply assert our right and duty to report what we have discovered. It is a right guaranteed by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and a right we demand to exercise un-impeded by a poorly governed ministry. A right 3ABN seems determined to take away as vigorously as they can despite the rule of law. It is a right they will regret having tampered with.

Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter



--------------------
Here's the thing - "...if you pull "folks" into a fight you don't know what "weapon" they will bring." PrincessDrRe

"A man who digs a pit for others to fall into, will end up falling into it himself. And if a man rolls a stone on someone, the stone will roll back on him". Said Solomon the wise, Proverbs 26:27

"No man can follow Christ and go astray." William H.P. Faunce

"If I could hear Christ praying for me in the next room, I would not fear a million enemies. Yet distance makes no difference. He is praying for me." Robert M. McCheyne

Click here for Linda Shelton's newly updated website
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beartrap
post Aug 12 2007, 12:01 AM
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Heavy Stuff. But, there is much heavier stuff that Gailon and Bob currently posses.

This post has been edited by beartrap: Aug 12 2007, 12:01 AM
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Ozzie
post Aug 12 2007, 12:28 AM
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QUOTE(sonshineonme @ Aug 12 2007, 02:37 PM) *
I write to Gailon often, upon discussing some things, he replied to my one of my emails with this response, and I decided I wanted to share it with my bsda family and friends, lurkers and anyone that reads here. Maybe it will help with some questions that others might wonder about, or others who would like a bigger insight in to some details of how things come to be. In any case, if you are interested, this is his comments on the "MicroEvolution" of the DS Shelton mess, and how when a man's journey begins by looking in to some things, it turns in to much more then was expected, and soon begins to uncover what has turned out to be not only deeply dissapointing, but also something that I feel christians, and maybe even SDA's especially, can learn something from. My prayer has always been that God wake up His people everywhere, and sometimes it takes something huge to get His children to open their eyes, learn and become prepared for even bigger things to come, God help us all.
********************************************************************************
***********
For what it may be worth to you, here is the email from Gailon:


3ABN RESOLUTION- IS THERE ONE?
Gailon Arthur Joy, AUReporter

I recently received a copy of the following post and it certainly requires a reply.

When I read the above post by SE on another thread it struck me that I wasn't certain what this was all about. For those who feel that enormous abuses have occurred at 3abn, and I fall into that camp, what will it take for us to be satisfied that justice has been done? I was somewhat surprised to find that I wasn't really certain what the end game was.

The answer is a story of MicroEvolution.

*********************************************
Gailon Arthur Joy
AUReporter



Thank you for sharing this email. I am personally reassured that there are still people around, who will stand up and be counted; no matter what the cost.

I believe that both Gailon and Bob should be in our prayers continually. May God use them as He wills. It is a heavy load that they carry.


--------------------
"It's important that people know what you stand for. It's equally important that they know what you won't stand for."
~ Mary Waldrop.

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mikell
post Aug 12 2007, 01:33 AM
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QUOTE(Ozzie @ Aug 12 2007, 12:28 AM) *
Thank you for sharing this email. I am personally reassured that there are still people around, who will stand up and be counted; no matter what the cost.

I believe that both Gailon and Bob should be in our prayers continually. May God use them as He wills. It is a heavy load that they carry.

I too thank you both Gailon and Bob for your work, and the long bumpy road of trails you two have to go through, our prayers are with you both, another person I know of who was courageous person back when the corruption began. When she faced off with Danny and the 3ABN board, ds had her to leave, Ann Greer; does anyone know her?
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PeacefulBe
post Aug 12 2007, 07:38 AM
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There is no question that Gailon and Bob have stepped up and done a noble thing by being willing to follow through with this investigation. Both have put much on the line as a result. Now, in my opinion, with the law suit in play this journey has reached a defining moment for everyone. Will the battle be fought by all with integrity, seeking only the wisdom and strength to carry out God's will and not any human agenda? That is my prayer for all involved.

Job 13:7 - 9, 12 + 15 has counsel that I believe could be applied to this situation:

7 Will you speak wickedly on God's behalf?
Will you speak deceitfully for him?
8 Will you show him partiality?
Will you argue the case for God?
9 Would it turn out well if he examined you?
Could you deceive him as you might deceive men?
12 Your maxims are proverbs of ashes;
your defenses are defenses of clay.
15 Though he slay me, yet will I hope in him;
I will surely defend my ways to his face.


--------------------
Got Peace?

John 14:27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.


"Truth welcomes examination and doesn't need to defend itself, while deception hides in darkness and blames everyone else." Aunt B, 2007
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Pickle
post Aug 12 2007, 09:22 AM
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QUOTE(Gailon Joy)
"Robert Pickle actually met with Illinois Conference President Denzlow, an ex officio board member, and virtually dismissed the allegations as foundationless after picking up the phone and calling 3ABN to affirm or deny."

A little clarification would be helpful.

It appears to me that Gailon meant that Elder Denslow rather than myself dismissed the allegations after picking up the phone.

I think this is true regarding a single allegation which I passed on to him after our meeting, an allegation I passed on via email at the same time I passed on the Nick Miller story.

Regarding that single allegation, he called Walt Thompson to enquire, and Walt called 3ABN who told him there was nothing to it, as far as they knew. Elder Denslow then asked me for verification of that allegation, but given its nature, and given the fact that he called Walt and Walt called 3ABN, there was no way I could provide him any further information without potentially getting him into a lot of trouble, the possibility of which I had already alerted him to. Thus, because I could not provide him any further information, he dismissed the allegation.

As far as the other allegations go, I do not know what he dismissed and what he didn't.
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PeacefulBe
post Aug 12 2007, 09:35 AM
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QUOTE(Pickle @ Aug 12 2007, 08:22 AM) *
A little clarification would be helpful.

It appears to me that Gailon meant that Elder Denslow rather than myself dismissed the allegations after picking up the phone.

I think this is true regarding a single allegation which I passed on to him after our meeting, an allegation I passed on via email at the same time I passed on the Nick Miller story.

Regarding that single allegation, he called Walt Thompson to enquire, and Walt called 3ABN who told him there was nothing to it, as far as they knew. Elder Denslow then asked me for verification of that allegation, but given its nature, and given the fact that he called Walt and Walt called 3ABN, there was no way I could provide him any further information without potentially getting him into a lot of trouble, the possibility of which I had already alerted him to. Thus, because I could not provide him any further information, he dismissed the allegation.

As far as the other allegations go, I do not know what he dismissed and what he didn't.

Bob,
It was probably wise to make that clarification. I don't understand how confirming the allegation for Elder Denslow would have potentially gotten him into trouble. Can you clarify that, please?


--------------------
Got Peace?

John 14:27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.


"Truth welcomes examination and doesn't need to defend itself, while deception hides in darkness and blames everyone else." Aunt B, 2007
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Pickle
post Aug 12 2007, 09:37 AM
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To explain further would not be helpful, but it may come out eventually. Depends. We'll see.
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PeacefulBe
post Aug 12 2007, 09:54 AM
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QUOTE(Pickle @ Aug 12 2007, 08:37 AM) *
To explain further would not be helpful, but it may come out eventually. Depends. We'll see.


Intriguing yet curiously evasive answer. Almost like a cliffhanger. So, I'll certainly stay tuned in for that Paul Harvey moment.


--------------------
Got Peace?

John 14:27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.


"Truth welcomes examination and doesn't need to defend itself, while deception hides in darkness and blames everyone else." Aunt B, 2007
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fallible humanbe...
post Aug 12 2007, 01:39 PM
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PB,

Interesting exchange. I feel it is rather symptomatic of the double standard that exists with the save/not crowd. Openness and Transparency is the hue and cry of this group . . . however, when it serves the endeavors to create a perception they are more than willing to play games and hide "information" from the public they are trying to lead.

It would seem that if you are dealing in the truth, as they claim to be, then you need not edit or editorialize the truth. The truth stands alone and needs no embellishment. Most people are intelligent enough to be able to take in the information and parcel as need be in order to understand the complexities and far reaching ramification of an email or a video clip. When someone needs to hide from you part of what was said it would seem that for many this would/should raise reg flags.

The games of, trust me to tell you what to think, er, read makes the entire save/not site and POV fall under question . . . questions of authenticity, veracity, reliability. Honesty is not meted out in bits and pieces, it gets presented in it's entirety if people are to believe it. Over and over again we have examples of emails that are not presented to the public as they were written, instead they have been edited to serve the save/not purpose, one can not accept them as being presented in context which means that one would then need to take the editorializing with a grain of salt - if you don't know what was written, you don't have context - without context you can't know if what you are reading is accurate.

Now, if this is the case with email, then it most certainly is the case with any phone conversations, snail mail, or face-to-face conversations/interviews. Then there is the case of editorializing and attributing statements to individuals that they clearly never made. Then we also have the accusations and threats that are dressed up as "questions." These are usually in the form of question as a means to avoid responsibility for innuendo that grows into perceived fact.

Also the game of pretending to be "reporters" as a means to try and hide behind the same rights/privileges that a true credentialed reporter maintains is also disingenuous. By their logic anyone can send out mass emails and then claim to have the rights and privileges that true reporters carry. It would seem feasible then that anyone could write an email and/or post detailing Mr. Joy's embezzlement conviction, the claims by former landlords, and other such questionable activities and then wave the same flag of first amendment rights in his face - unless you are him and then you resort to threats and machinations in order to keep people quiet, because it just isn't Christian, it isn't fair, it isn't accurate, it isn't . . ., it isn't . . .

The law suit, like it or not, agree with it or not, should reveal for all to see the truth and then each will need to decide how they will have acquitted themselves during this experience.



- FHB


QUOTE(PeacefulBe @ Aug 12 2007, 11:54 AM) *
Intriguing yet curiously evasive answer. Almost like a cliffhanger. So, I'll certainly stay tuned in for that Paul Harvey moment.


This post has been edited by fallible humanbeing: Aug 12 2007, 02:59 PM


--------------------
But beware. Anger, fear, aggression. The dark side are they. Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny. - Yoda

If you would convince a man that he does wrong, do right. But do not care to convince him. Men will believe what they see. Let them see. - Henry David Thoreau

May those who love us love us. And those who don’t love us– may God turn their hearts. And if He cannot turn their hearts, may He turn their ankles, so that we may know them by their limping. - Keeping Faith
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ex3ABNemployee
post Aug 12 2007, 01:52 PM
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QUOTE(fallible humanbeing @ Aug 12 2007, 02:39 PM) *
PB,

The law suit, like it or not, agree with it or not, should reveal for all to see the truth and then each will need to decide how they will have acquitted themselves during this experience.

- FHB

It will reveal for all to see? Hmmm... I wonder why Danny wanted it impounded then?


--------------------
Duane Clem

It's not about religion, it's about a relationship.

Gems of Wisdom
"Lisa and Ronda are not Danny's biological father." -- wwjd, 2/8/07
"Watchbird, The facts prove the above lie." -- wwjd, 2/13/07
"Another lie that can be proven..." -- Bystander, 3/18/07
"The thing about lies is they can be proven." -- Aletheia, 3/22/07
"I am not here to argue" -- Aletheia, 4/24/07
"She didn't move to 3ABN, she moved to Illinois" -- Aletheia, 4/25/07
"Hope is liberal. 3abn is not." -- steffan, 6/9/07
"Danny Shelton does not decide what goes on the air, period." -- appletree, 8/22/07


http://www.save-3abn.com/
http://www.investigating3abn.info/
http://rescue3abn.blog.com/
http://www.abundantrest.org/?p=74
http://abundantrest.org/2007/02/18/3abn-sa...ons-retirement/
http://anewsabbathschool.blogspot.com/2006...ain-wrecks.html
http://cafesda.blogspot.com/2006/08/atoday...bn-news_21.html
http://www.atoday.com/email/2007/02/12/
http://spectrummagazine.typepad.com/the_sp...eans_and_e.html
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Pickle
post Aug 12 2007, 02:16 PM
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FHB, so are you really asking me to incriminate a current 3ABN board member? Why would you do such a thing? I thought you were on their side.
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watchbird
post Aug 12 2007, 02:35 PM
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QUOTE(Pickle @ Aug 12 2007, 04:16 PM) *
FHB, so are you really asking me to incriminate a current 3ABN board member? Why would you do such a thing? I thought you were on their side.

"They ask awry because they know not that for which they ask".

.............cloud9.gif.......................
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Ozzie
post Aug 12 2007, 06:21 PM
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QUOTE(fallible humanbeing @ Aug 13 2007, 05:39 AM) *
PB,

Interesting exchange. I feel it is rather symptomatic of the double standard that exists with the save/not crowd. Openness and Transparency is the hue and cry of this group . . . however, when it serves the endeavors to create a perception they are more than willing to play games and hide "information" from the public they are trying to lead.

It would seem that if you are dealing in the truth, as they claim to be, then you need not edit or editorialize the truth. The truth stands alone and needs no embellishment. Most people are intelligent enough to be able to take in the information and parcel as need be in order to understand the complexities and far reaching ramification of an email or a video clip. When someone needs to hide from you part of what was said it would seem that for many this would/should raise reg flags.
- FHB

All are entitled to their point of view. However, there are many times when people are privy to information, where it is not prudent to release all the information. Doing so may harm others. Other information in an email or letter may not relate to the topic being discussed. There may be hundreds of reasons for not releasing every word and view point.

These guys have gone out a limb to reveal TRUTH as they know it. I am not hasty to denounce them as 'hiding' truth. We are all human and some mistakes may be made. I do not believe they are being malicious however and I do respect both Bob and Gailon for using discretion in what they release for general exhibition at particular times.

Many were hasty to denounce them for releasing the email from Nick Miller. How would it be if they just put ALL that they have out there for everyone to see at one time. They could then be accused of being reckless and serving their own ends.

Seems like they're darned if they do and darned if they don't. Not an enviable situation, from where I sit.


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"It's important that people know what you stand for. It's equally important that they know what you won't stand for."
~ Mary Waldrop.

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Clay
post Aug 12 2007, 08:14 PM
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QUOTE(Ozzie @ Aug 12 2007, 07:21 PM) *
All are entitled to their point of view. However, there are many times when people are privy to information, where it is not prudent to release all the information. Doing so may harm others. Other information in an email or letter may not relate to the topic being discussed. There may be hundreds of reasons for not releasing every word and view point.

These guys have gone out a limb to reveal TRUTH as they know it. I am not hasty to denounce them as 'hiding' truth. We are all human and some mistakes may be made. I do not believe they are being malicious however and I do respect both Bob and Gailon for using discretion in what they release for general exhibition at particular times.

Many were hasty to denounce them for releasing the email from Nick Miller. How would it be if they just put ALL that they have out there for everyone to see at one time. They could then be accused of being reckless and serving their own ends.

Seems like they're darned if they do and darned if they don't. Not an enviable situation, from where I sit.

are you also rationalizing the release of the Miller letter vs them asking him if his conditions had been met and then releasing it?


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"you are as sick as your secrets...." -quote from Celebrity Rehab-
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