Answers From The General Conference Of Seventh-day Adventists?, ...please! Options

[Artiste]

As has been noted elsewhere on this forum, 3ABN has, in addition to proclaiming itself non-denominational and non-affiliated, continued to point out its close relationship with the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists.

From the website savedthru3abn.org, "Miracle of 3ABN" page,

"Since 1997, 3ABN has enjoyed a formal working agreement with the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists to support each other in proclaiming the gospel of Jesus Christ to the whole world. Our network is accepted as a supporting ministry of the Seventh-day Adventist Church."


Question Number One:

Why are you, the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists, continuing to allow 3ABN's Danny Shelton to claim before the world this close and mutually supportive relationship between the two of you?

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The "Miracle Page" also mentions the following:

"At a recent 3ABN Camp Meeting, Pastor Jim Gilley (former assistant to the president of the North American Division of Seventh-day Adventists) shared these statistics with us: in 1984, before 3ABN started, there were an estimated five to six million Adventists worldwide; today that figure has grown to fifteen million Adventists... Elder Gilley attributes the impact of 3ABN's world-wide network as one of the main reasons for this growth!"


Question Number Two:

Does the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists have a game plan for dealing with masses of disillusioned Adventist members that were brought into the church through 3ABN?

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This post has been edited by Artiste: Sep 5 2007, 07:39 PM

[panther]

As has been noted elsewhere on this forum, 3ABN has, in addition to proclaiming itself non-denominational and non-affiliated, continued to point out its close relationship with the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists.

From the website savedthru3abn.org, "Miracle of 3ABN" page,

"Since 1997, 3ABN has enjoyed a formal working agreement with the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists to support each other in proclaiming the gospel of Jesus Christ to the whole world. Our network is accepted as a supporting ministry of the Seventh-day Adventist Church."
Question Number One:

Why are you, the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists, continuing to allow 3ABN's Danny Shelton to claim before the world this close and mutually supportive relationship between the two of you?

*********************************************************
*********************************************************

The "Miracle Page" also mentions the following:

"At a recent 3ABN Camp Meeting, Pastor Jim Gilley (former assistant to the president of the North American Division of Seventh-day Adventists) shared these statistics with us: in 1984, before 3ABN started, there were an estimated five to six million Adventists worldwide; today that figure has grown to fifteen million Adventists... Elder Gilley attributes the impact of 3ABN's world-wide network as one of the main reasons for this growth!"
Question Number Two:

Does the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists have a game plan for dealing with masses of disillusioned Adventist members that were brought into the church through 3ABN?

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Oh my, this is such an old argument.

[Ozzie]

Oh my, this is such an old argument.

And that's all you can say Panther, when a very reasonable question is asked?

[Aletheia]

And that's all you can say Panther, when a very reasonable question is asked?

What else can be done when you people even ignore the definition of "affiliated" as used in the lawsuit, to make your arguments and your mountains out of molehills?

Main Entry: af·fil·i·at·ed
Pronunciation: -lE-"A-t&d
Function: adjective
: closely associated with another typically in a dependent or subordinate position <the university and its affiliated medical school>
source-- Merriam-Webster

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary

Does that sound like 3ABN's relationship to the GC?

No. They are not dependant on. or in a subordinate position to the GC, or any local church or any other organization, etc..

Why? Because they are an independant ministry.

[Seraphim7]

What else can be done when you people even ignore the definition of "affiliated" as used in the lawsuit, to make your arguments and your mountains out of molehills?
Does that sound like 3ABN's relationship to the GC?

No. They are not dependant on. or in a subordinate position to the GC, or any local church or any other organization, etc..

Why? Because they are an independant ministry.

Independent alright... independent of the truth

[PeacefulBe]

What else can be done when you people even ignore the definition of "affiliated" as used in the lawsuit, to make your arguments and your mountains out of molehills?
Does that sound like 3ABN's relationship to the GC?

No. They are not dependant on. or in a subordinate position to the GC, or any local church or any other organization, etc..

Why? Because they are an independant ministry.

Don Schnieder assured everyone that 3abn was still considered a supporting ministry of the SDA denomination. Does "supporting" sound like they are in a subordinate position to the denom? This is sounding more and more like word manipulation to me.

Although I did not approve of Bill Clinton's behavior with "that woman", I appreciated his presidency. However, one of his darkest moments, IMO, was when he lied and fussed around the bush about what he had done. Who can forget those words "Well, it depends on what your definition of the word 'sex' is..." Now we have you, Cindy, sounding almost presidential in your own fussing about the bush trying to say 3abn is not reallly "affiliated" with the denomination. Either they are a supporting ministry or they aren't. Which is it now?

So what is the definition of "supporting"? There seem to be a lot of definitions. See if any of them fit here:

support definition
tr.v. sup·port·ed, sup·port·ing, sup·ports
1. To bear the weight of, especially from below.
2. To hold in position so as to keep from falling, sinking, or slipping.
3. To be capable of bearing; withstand: "His flaw'd heart . . . too weak the conflict to support" (Shakespeare).
4. To keep from weakening or failing; strengthen: The letter supported him in his grief.
5. To provide for or maintain, by supplying with money or necessities.
6. To furnish corroborating evidence for: New facts supported her story.
7.
a. To aid the cause, policy, or interests of: supported her in her election campaign.
b. To argue in favor of; advocate: supported lower taxes.
8. To endure; tolerate: "At supper there was such a conflux of company that I could scarcely support the tumult" (Samuel Johnson).
9. To act in a secondary or subordinate role to (a leading performer).
n.
1.
a. The act of supporting.
b. The state of being supported.
2. One that supports.
3. Maintenance, as of a family, with the necessities of life.

[Aletheia]

Don Schnieder assured everyone that 3abn was still considered a supporting ministry of the SDA denomination. Does "supporting" sound like they are in a subordinate position to the denom? This is sounding more and more like word manipulation to me.

Although I did not approve of Bill Clinton's behavior with "that woman", I appreciated his presidency. However, one of his darkest moments, IMO, was when he lied and fussed around the bush about what he had done. Who can forget those words "Well, it depends on what your definition of the word 'sex' is..." Now we have you, Cindy, sounding almost presidential in your own fussing about the bush trying to say 3abn is not reallly "affiliated" with the denomination. Either they are a supporting ministry or they aren't. Which is it now?

So what is the definition of "supporting"? There seem to be a lot of definitions. See if any of them fit here:

support definition
tr.v. sup·port·ed, sup·port·ing, sup·ports
1. To bear the weight of, especially from below.
2. To hold in position so as to keep from falling, sinking, or slipping.
3. To be capable of bearing; withstand: "His flaw'd heart . . . too weak the conflict to support" (Shakespeare).
4. To keep from weakening or failing; strengthen: The letter supported him in his grief.
5. To provide for or maintain, by supplying with money or necessities.
6. To furnish corroborating evidence for: New facts supported her story.
7.
a. To aid the cause, policy, or interests of: supported her in her election campaign.
b. To argue in favor of; advocate: supported lower taxes.
8. To endure; tolerate: "At supper there was such a conflux of company that I could scarcely support the tumult" (Samuel Johnson).
9. To act in a secondary or subordinate role to (a leading performer).
n.
1.
a. The act of supporting.
b. The state of being supported.
2. One that supports.
3. Maintenance, as of a family, with the necessities of life.

Who's fussing? Who's saying it depends on what your meaning of the word affiliated, is? Not me, I gave you the dictionary definition, it's not my fault you disagree with it.

It sounds like you are the one arguing about what "is" is.

They are a supporting ministry who are not affiliated with the conference, can you wrap your mind around that PB?

If not, that's your problem, not mine.

This post has been edited by Aletheia: Sep 6 2007, 12:34 AM

[princessdi]

Don't they have a contract with GC about the programming. They are not dependent on GC? Now, how many programs exactly would 3ABN have if GC "encouraged" the Adventist to pull their programs from 3ABN's schedule? Or they could not broad cast GC Sessions or other purely Adventist events. As I said before, you don't see that truck parked out side of MegaFest, or any TBN events. They are so "affiliated" with the Adventist church that Danny moved the entire church onto 3ABN property. Are you going to tell me that the local Baptist, Methodist, Catholic churches are also on 3ABN property? Please correct me if I am wrong, but does not the SDA church pay a portion of JL's salary as pastor of that church? I have never known the SDA church to pay eny pastors but SDA pastors to serve in their churches. Aren't ALL the members of that church members of the Seventh Day Adventist, church, in cluding Danny? How much more affiliation do you need?

Uh, and I think you cut a little too much when you cut and pasted that definition, let's try this one:

Affiliation:
the act of affiliating; state of being affiliated or associated

af·fil·i·ate (ə-fĭl'ē-āt') Pronunciation Key
v. af·fil·i·at·ed, af·fil·i·at·ing, af·fil·i·ates
v. tr.

To adopt or accept as a member, subordinate associate, or branch: The HMO affiliated the clinics last year.
To associate (oneself) as a subordinate, subsidiary, employee, or member: affiliated herself with a new law firm.
To assign the origin of.

v. intr.
To become closely connected or associated: The two unions voted to affiliate.

n. (-ē-ĭt, -āt')
A person, organization, or establishment associated with another as a subordinate, subsidiary, or member: network affiliates.
And for good measure let's add this one:

[Medieval Latin affīliāre, to adopt : Latin ad-, ad- + Latin fīlius, son; see dhē(i)- in Indo-European roots.]

It seems the partial definition you posted only told part of the story. 3ABN is not subordinate to GC, that is true, However, they have been accepted as supporting ministry, a branch, if you will that has preached and taught through it's progamming not to mention, it's very name it's very name the uniquely Adventist doctrine for more than 20 years. Gurl, Dictionary.com is available to everybody with a pc? Why would you post a partial truth and even think we would accept that, that no one would check, or worse yet, that nobody here even knew the meaning of the word, without looking it up?

Please don't act play with words and act as if you don't know that they are talking out of both sides of their mouth. Now, the truth of the matter is 3ABN either lied to the Adventist church for 20+years(which we already know to be false, they show their allegiance starting with their name), or they lied to the court (noble cause or not, it is still a lie and has no place in a minstry claiming to spread Gopd's Word and to be a leaders in christian living). Either way, it doesn't work they lied and not twisting of words will fix it. Just let this one go.

What else can be done when you people even ignore the definition of "affiliated" as used in the lawsuit, to make your arguments and your mountains out of molehills?
Does that sound like 3ABN's relationship to the GC?

No. They are not dependant on. or in a subordinate position to the GC, or any local church or any other organization, etc..

Why? Because they are an independant ministry.

[Clay]

I prefer (meaning give me that any day) Clinton's lying about his involvement with an intern that the lies the Bush administration continued to trot out about WMD's. Clinton's lie did not cost the U.S. billions of dollars and thousands of U.S. soldiers lives..... carry on....

[PeacefulBe]

I prefer (meaning give me that any day) Clinton's lying about his involvement with an intern that the lies the Bush administration continued to trot out about WMD's. Clinton's lie did not cost the U.S. billions of dollars and thousands of U.S. soldiers lives..... carry on....

[Aletheia]

deleted multiple post...

But, since I already took up space here...

:offopic: but still related to misunderstandings, and maybe your sense of the ridiculous..


Hotel Soap Opera

Attached is actual correspondence which occurred between a London hotel's staff and one of its guests. The London hotel involved submitted this to the Sunday Times.
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Dear Maid,

Please do not leave any more of those little bars of soap in my bathroom since I have brought my own bath-sized Dial. Please remove the six unopened little bars from the shelf under the medicine chest and another three in the shower soap dish. They are in my way.
Thank you,
S. Berman


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Dear Room 635,

I am not your regular maid. She will be back tomorrow, Thursday, from her day off. I took the 3 hotel soaps out of the shower soap dish as you requested. The 6 bars on your shelf I took out of your way and put on top of your Kleenex dispenser in case you should change your mind. This leaves only the 3 bars I left today which my instructions from the management is to leave 3 soaps daily. I hope this is satisfactory.

Kathy, Relief Maid

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Dear Maid -- I hope you are my regular maid.
Apparently Kathy did not tell you about my note to her concerning the little bars of soap. When I got back to my room this evening I found you had added 3 little Camays to the shelf under my medicine cabinet. I am going to be here in the hotel for two weeks and have brought my own bath-size Dial so I won't need those 6 little Camays which are on the shelf. They are in my way when shaving, brushing teeth, etc.

Please remove them.
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Dear Mr. Berman,

My day off was last Wed. so the relief maid left 3 hotel soaps which we are instructed by the management. I took the 6 soaps which were in your way on the shelf and put them in the soap dish where your Dial was. I put the Dial in the medicine cabinet for your convenience. I didn't remove the 3 complimentary soaps which are always placed inside the medicine cabinet for all new check-ins and which you did not object to when you checked in last Monday. Please let me know if I can of further assistance.
Your regular maid,

Dotty
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Dear Mr. Berman,

The assistant manager, Mr. Kensedder, informed me this A.M. that you called him last evening and said you were unhappy with your maid service. I have assigned a new girl to your room. I hope you will accept my apologies for any past inconvenience. If you have any future complaints please contact me so I can give it my personal attention. Call extension 1108 between 8AM and 5PM.

Thank you.
Elaine Carmen
Housekeeper

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Dear Miss Carmen,

It is impossible to contact you by phone since I leave the hotel for business at 745 AM and don't get back before 530 or 6PM. That's the reason I called Mr. Kensedder last night. You were already off duty. I only asked Mr. Kensedder if he could do anything about those little bars of soap. The new maid you assigned me must have thought I was a new check-in today, since she left another 3 bars of hotel soap in my medicine cabinet along with her regular delivery of 3 bars on the bath-room shelf. In just 5 days here I have accumulated 24 little bars of soap. Why are you doing this to me?
S. Berman

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Dear Mr. Berman,

Your maid, Kathy, has been instructed to stop delivering soap to your room and remove the extra soaps. If I can be of further assistance, please call extension 1108 between 8AM and 5PM. Thank you,

Elaine Carmen,
Housekeeper

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Dear Mr. Kensedder,
My bath-size Dial is missing. Every bar of soap was taken from my room including my own bath-size Dial. I came in late last night and had to call the bellhop to bring me 4 little Cashmere Bouquets.

S. Berman

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Dear Mr. Berman,

I have informed our housekeeper, Elaine Carmen, of your soap problem. I cannot understand why there was no soap in your room since our Maids are instructed to leave 3 bars of soap each time they service a room. The situation will be rectified immediately. Please accept my apologies for the inconvenience.

Martin L. Kensedder
Assistant Manager

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Dear Mrs. Carmen,

Who the h@#& left 54 little bars of Camay in my room? I came in last night and found 54 little bars of soap. I don't want 54 little bars of Camay. I want my one d@#& bar of bath-size Dial. Do you realize I have 54 bars of soap in here. All I want is my bath size Dial. Please give me back my bath-size Dial.

S. Berman

--------------------------------------------------------


Dear Mr. Berman,

You complained of too much soap in your room so I had them removed. Then you complained to Mr. Kensedder that all your soap was missing so I personally returned them. The 24 Camays which had been taken and the 3 Camays you are supposed to receive daily (sic). I don't know anything about the 4 Cashmere Bouquets. Obviously your maid, Kathy, did not know I had returned your soaps so she also brought 24 Camays plus the 3 daily Camays. I don't know where you got the idea this hotel issues bath-size Dial. I was able to locate some bath-size Ivory which I left in your room.

Elaine Carmen
Housekeeper

--------------------------------------------------------


Dear Mrs. Carmen,

Just a short note to bring you up-to-date on my latest soap inventory. As of today I possess:
- On shelf under medicine cabinet - 18 Camay in 4 stacks of 4 and 1 stack of 2.
- On Kleenex dispenser - 11 Camay in 2 stacks of 4 and 1 stack of 3.
- On bedroom dresser - 1 stack of 3 Cashmere Bouquet, 1 stack of 4 hotel-size Ivory, and 8 Camay in 2 stacks of 4.
- Inside medicine cabinet - 14 Camay in 3 stacks of 4 and 1 stack of 2.
- In shower soap dish - 6 Camay, very moist.
- On northeast corner of tub - 1 Cashmere Bouquet, slightly used.
- On northwest corner of tub - 6 Camays in 2 stacks of 3.

Please ask Kathy when she services my room to make sure the stacks are neatly piled and dusted. Also, please advise her that stacks of more than 4 have a tendency to tip. May I suggest that my bedroom window sill is not in use and will make an excellent spot for future soap deliveries. One more item, I have purchased another bar of bath-sized Dial which I am keeping in the hotel vault in order to avoid further misunderstandings.

S. Berman

This post has been edited by Aletheia: Sep 6 2007, 12:35 PM

[Aletheia]

Don't they have a contract with GC about the programming. They are not dependent on GC? Now, how many programs exactly would 3ABN have if GC "encouraged" the Adventist to pull their programs from 3ABN's schedule? Or they could not broad cast GC Sessions or other purely Adventist events. As I said before, you don't see that truck parked out side of MegaFest, or any TBN events. They are so "affiliated" with the Adventist church that Danny moved the entire church onto 3ABN property. Are you going to tell me that the local Baptist, Methodist, Catholic churches are also on 3ABN property? Please correct me if I am wrong, but does not the SDA church pay a portion of JL's salary as pastor of that church? I have never known the SDA church to pay eny pastors but SDA pastors to serve in their churches. Aren't ALL the members of that church members of the Seventh Day Adventist, church, in cluding Danny? How much more affiliation do you need?

Uh, and I think you cut a little too much when you cut and pasted that definition, let's try this one:

Affiliation:
the act of affiliating; state of being affiliated or associated

af·fil·i·ate (ə-fĭl'ē-āt') Pronunciation Key
v. af·fil·i·at·ed, af·fil·i·at·ing, af·fil·i·ates
v. tr.

To adopt or accept as a member, subordinate associate, or branch: The HMO affiliated the clinics last year.
To associate (oneself) as a subordinate, subsidiary, employee, or member: affiliated herself with a new law firm.
To assign the origin of.

v. intr.
To become closely connected or associated: The two unions voted to affiliate.

n. (-ē-ĭt, -āt')
A person, organization, or establishment associated with another as a subordinate, subsidiary, or member: network affiliates.
And for good measure let's add this one:

[Medieval Latin affīliāre, to adopt : Latin ad-, ad- + Latin fīlius, son; see dhē(i)- in Indo-European roots.]

It seems the partial definition you posted only told part of the story. 3ABN is not subordinate to GC, that is true, However, they have been accepted as supporting ministry, a branch, if you will that has preached and taught through it's progamming not to mention, it's very name it's very name the uniquely Adventist doctrine for more than 20 years. Gurl, Dictionary.com is available to everybody with a pc? Why would you post a partial truth and even think we would accept that, that no one would che,ck or worse yet, that nobody here even knew the meaning of the word, without looking it up?

Please don't act play with words and act as if you don't know that they are talking out of both sides of their mouth. Now, the truth of the matter is 3ABN either lied to the Adventist church for 20+years(which we already know to be false, they show their allegiance starting with their name), or they lied to the court (noble cause or not, it is still a lie and has no place in a minstry claiming to spread Gopd's Word and to be a leaders in christian living). Either way, it doesn't work they lied and not twisting of words will fix it. Just let this one go.

??? I am answering you again, as I am at a loss here to understand your point other then to put me down. There is a difference in length and the amount of words used, but there seems to be no difference in meaning between the dictionary.com entry you quote and the merriam- Webster online , 10th edition I quoted....

And yes, I did think people would check my reference and quoted definition, and that's why I supplied the link to it. I have no idea why it doesn't work tho- so my apologies, I am quite sure you would have checked and not written all this had you been able to do so.....

Please do check. My original link was the URL which comes up when you click on "affiliated here:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/affiliated

It doesn't seem to work tho-- so click on "affiliated" yourself in the above link to compare what I posted with the entry: (There is no difference, I quoted it in it's entirety;

Main Entry: af·fil·i·at·ed
Pronunciation: -lE-"A-t&d
Function: adjective
: closely associated with another typically in a dependent or subordinate position <the university and its affiliated medical school>
source-- Merriam-Webster

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary

There is a reason the agreement between the SDA GC and 3ABN calls 3ABN a supporting ministry, rather then an affiliate of the GC. As I said before, it's really not that hard to understand... They are a supporting ministry, but they are not affiliated, as in dependant on or subordinate to the GC, as many non-independant SDA ministries are.

SDA dependant ministries are run by the GC, they are subordinate to the GC and take their orders from the GC. The Hope channel is a "affiliate" of the GC, they are "affiliated". #ABN is not a affiliate, they are supportive but not affiliated, according to the definitions posted here by you and I and PB.

AND-- Yes the Gc pays part of JL's salary, the part which concerns him being a GC employed Pastor in a legitimate GC church, 3ABN pays the part which is concerned with their independant ministry and his duties and job related to their ministry and needs. One isn't the other...

And BTW, the GC is NOT in charge of 3ABN programming Diane. They wanted to be, but 3ABN did not want to give up their independent status and be in a "subordinate" position when it came to programming decisions, and thus they drafted the agreement on the 3ABN website instead, The agreement, if you read it, does allow for a resolution process if the GC has objections to what is being aired. But the final say and decision is 3ABN's.

Ask any of your 3ABN employess or ex-employees here, even though they be in your group all finding fault with anything and everything and everybody at 3ABN or supportive of them, they know this to be true and many have even posted as much right here, more then several times.
I very much doubt they are going to contradict their earlier testimony.

Maybe it is time for you to do as you keep advising others? Read what is written, before attacking another, and posting in ignorance

Ignorant means lacking knowledge, and calling someone that requires no forum discipline as you so nicely pointed out in another thread... Thank you.

This post has been edited by Aletheia: Sep 6 2007, 11:33 AM

[Observer]

??? I am at a loss here, there is a difference in length and the amount of words used, but there seems to be no difference in meaning between the dictionary.com entry you quote and the merriam- Webster online , 10th edition I quoted....

And yes, I did think people would check my reference and quoted definition, and that's why I supplied the link to it. I have no idea why it doesn't work tho- so my apologies, I am quite sure you would have checked and not written all this had you been able to do so.....

Please do check. My original link was the URL which comes up when you click on "affiliated here:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/affiliated

It doesn't seem to work tho-- so click on "affiliated" yourself to compare how I quoted the entry in it's entirety.
There is a reason the agreement between the SDA GC and 3ABN calls 3ABN a supporting ministry, rather then an affiliate of the GC. As I said before, it's really not that hard to understand... They are a supporting ministry, but they are not affiliated, as in dependant on or subordinate to the GC, as many non-independant SDA ministries are.

SDA dependant ministries are run by the GC, they are subordinate to the GC and take their orders from the GC. The Hope channel is a "affiliate" of the GC, they are "affiliated". #ABN is not a affiliate, they are supportive but not affiliated, according to the definitions posted here by you and I and PB.

AND-- Yes the Gc pays part of JL's salary, the part which concerns him being a GC employed Pastor in a legitimate GC church, 3ABN pays the part which is concerned with their independant ministry and his duties and job related to their ministry and needs. One isn't the other...

And BTW, the GC is NOT in charge of 3ABN programming Diane. They wanted to be, but 3ABN did not want to give up their independent status and be in a "subordinate" position when it came to programming decisions, and thus they drafted the agreement on the 3ABN website instead, The agreement, if you read it, does allow for a resolution process if the GC has objections to what is being aired. But the final say and decision is 3ABN's.

Ask any of your 3ABN employess or ex-employees here, even though they be in your group all finding fault with anything and everything and everybody at 3ABN or supportive of them, they know this to be true and many have even posted as much right here, more then several times.
I very much doubt they are going to contradict their earlier testimony.

Maybe it is time for you to do as you keep advising others? Read what is written, before attacking another, and posting in ignorance

Ignorant means lacking knowledge, and calling someone that requires no forum discipline as you so nicely pointed out in another thread... Thank you.

I have stayed out of this discussion, but I am going to jump in here on the meaning of the word "affiliated."

Yes it is true that one defination is, as stated, typically in a dependent or subordinate position. But, you will notice, if you look carefully, that this defination is a secondary one. Look up to another defination which reads: to bring or recieve into close connection as a member or branch, to associate as a member. You will note that this defination which is ranked in priority over the suborbinate defination, is a primary defination.

In other words, the meaning of affiliated as to be in close relationship is promary to being suborbinate to.

It is this that is generating the concern. People, rightly or wrongly, believe that to deny affiliation with the SDA Church is to deny a close relationship with the SDA Chruch.

[Aletheia]

I have stayed out of this discussion, but I am going to jump in here on the meaning of the word "affiliated."

Yes it is true that one defination is, as stated, typically in a dependent or subordinate position. But, you will notice, if you look carefully, that this defination is a secondary one. Look up to another defination which reads: to bring or recieve into close connection as a member or branch, to associate as a member. You will note that this defination which is ranked in priority over the suborbinate defination, is a primary defination.

In other words, the meaning of affiliated as to be in close relationship is promary to being suborbinate to.
.

The definition I quoted from the online merriam -Webster's 10th edition, was the main entry, it was the only one given.

People, rightly or wrongly, believe that to deny affiliation with the SDA Church is to deny a close relationship with the SDA Chruch.

True, but as 3ABN has never denied being Adventist, or that they are supportive of them, and in fact boldly proclaim that they are on their about us page, it seems to me, we sould understand the term "Not affiliated" in that light, and not take it as if they are suddenly doing an about face and are claiming that they have nothing to do with the SDA church.

Even the lawsuit clarifies Danny Shelton and most of the employees are SDA's before stating that they are not an affiliate.

Legally it was the best choice of wording as chosen by the lawyers, and morally and definition wise it seems correct to me.

I think the difference of opinion here has to do with those who accept 3ABN is stating the truth and then look up the words involved to understand how it conveys what they are saying, and those who believe 3ABN lies and just see that in all said, and so seek to verify that.




Peace--

This post has been edited by Aletheia: Sep 6 2007, 12:01 PM

[princessdi]

The definition does not only mean subordinate. Affiliation does not only mean subordinate. It mean being a member or part of. That is the part you left out of your definition. I did not say that GC was in charge of 3ABN programming. In fact you statement proves the point we are trying to make. 3ABN is in charge of their own prgramming, yet they choose Adventist ONLY programming. Nobody is saying that they answer to GC, but have chosen to be affiliated, as in member, part of the Adventist church.

Ok, since you are having difficulty with the entire meaning of the word affiliate or affiliation. Let's break it down just one more time and go one step further. Also, to keep down the obvious confustion, I will also use the Meriam-webster definitions. I hope this will help. We will start with "affiliate".

Main Entry: 1af·fil·i·ate
Pronunciation: &-'fi-lE-"At
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): -at·ed; -at·ing
Etymology: Medieval Latin affiliatus, past participle of affiliare to adopt as a son, from Latin ad- + filius son -- more at FEMININE
transitive verb
1 a : to bring or receive into close connection as a member or branch b : to associate as a member <affiliates herself with the local club>
2 : to trace the origin of
intransitive verb : to connect or associate oneself :

Now, one interesting change is that the word affiliate did not emphasize the subordinate portion of the definition, which works well for me, but interesting all the same. So now we can clearly see that affiliation does not always mean subordinate, but can just mean connected of associated with, a member of, etc. This definition most accurately decribes the relaitonship between GC and 3ABN. 3ABN teaches and preaches SDA cdotrine, and chooses Adventist ONLY programming. Like I said they show up at GC Sessions, not MegaFest . IOW, they ARE affiliated with the SDA church. Making the description in the court documents yet and still a lite. However, just so it is clear, we will go just one step further and give the definition for the word "member".

Main Entry: mem·ber
Pronunciation: 'mem-b&r
Function: noun
Usage: often attributive
Etymology: Middle English membre, from Anglo-French, from Latin membrum; akin to Gothic mimz flesh, Greek mEros thigh
1 : a body part or organ: as a : LIMB b : PENIS c : a unit of structure in a plant body
2 : one of the individuals composing a group
3 : a person baptized or enrolled in a church
4 : a part of a whole: as a : a syntactic or rhythmic unit of a sentence : CLAUSE b : one of the propositions of a syllogism c : one of the elements of a set or class d : either of the equated elements in a mathematical equation

Now this one I found really interesting, especially definition #3. As it fits this situation so well. Are we not talking about people in leadership, and most of the employees at 3ABN who are baptized members of the Adventist church? I think I remember that some of the employees are not Adventist, but all of the On-air personalities and the pastoral staff are indeed Adventist, are they not?

Now, I hope this was helpful, and a lot less confusing. Forgive my assumption. I thought it was clear that the extra words in the definition were also additional meanings. I was always pretty advanced in the are of spelling, grammar, word meanings and origins, etc. I forget that others may have issues int this, and it might not come as easily. Now, my typing skills were never stellar, just enough ot get me through.

Also, you have not been attacked. The fact is, you all are twisting words, and it is clear, especially when you post only a portion of the definition, link or no. Your point is to say that 3ABN is not answerable to GC, and we totally agree with that. However, that do have a completely voluntary affiliaton with the GC. Their officers and management are ALL members of the SDA church, from Danny on down. Their programming teaches andpromotes the uniquely Adventist doctrine, including thier very name proclaim the Three Angels Message which is definitely unique to the Adventist church. You all are so busy trying to prove that they did not lie, but you can't. They lied to the court.

??? I am at a loss here, there is a difference in length and the amount of words used, but there seems to be no difference in meaning between the dictionary.com entry you quote and the merriam- Webster online , 10th edition I quoted....

And yes, I did think people would check my reference and quoted definition, and that's why I supplied the link to it. I have no idea why it doesn't work tho- so my apologies, I am quite sure you would have checked and not written all this had you been able to do so.....

Please do check. My original link was the URL which comes up when you click on "affiliated here:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/affiliated

It doesn't seem to work tho-- so click on "affiliated" yourself to compare how I quoted the entry in it's entirety.
There is a reason the agreement between the SDA GC and 3ABN calls 3ABN a supporting ministry, rather then an affiliate of the GC. As I said before, it's really not that hard to understand... They are a supporting ministry, but they are not affiliated, as in dependant on or subordinate to the GC, as many non-independant SDA ministries are.

SDA dependant ministries are run by the GC, they are subordinate to the GC and take their orders from the GC. The Hope channel is a "affiliate" of the GC, they are "affiliated". #ABN is not a affiliate, they are supportive but not affiliated, according to the definitions posted here by you and I and PB.

AND-- Yes the Gc pays part of JL's salary, the part which concerns him being a GC employed Pastor in a legitimate GC church, 3ABN pays the part which is concerned with their independant ministry and his duties and job related to their ministry and needs. One isn't the other...

And BTW, the GC is NOT in charge of 3ABN programming Diane. They wanted to be, but 3ABN did not want to give up their independent status and be in a "subordinate" position when it came to programming decisions, and thus they drafted the agreement on the 3ABN website instead, The agreement, if you read it, does allow for a resolution process if the GC has objections to what is being aired. But the final say and decision is 3ABN's.

Ask any of your 3ABN employess or ex-employees here, even though they be in your group all finding fault with anything and everything and everybody at 3ABN or supportive of them, they know this to be true and many have even posted as much right here, more then several times.
I very much doubt they are going to contradict their earlier testimony.

Maybe it is time for you to do as you keep advising others? Read what is written, before attacking another, and posting in ignorance

Ignorant means lacking knowledge, and calling someone that requires no forum discipline as you so nicely pointed out in another thread... Thank you.