Answers From The General Conference Of Seventh-day Adventists?, ...please! Options

[Aletheia]

The definition does not only mean subordinate. Affiliation does not only mean subordinate. It mean being a member or part of. That is the part you left out of your definition. I did not say that GC was in charge of 3ABN programming. In fact you statement proves the point we are trying to make. 3ABN is in charge of their own prgramming, yet they choose Adventist ONLY programming. Nobody is saying that they answer to GC, but have chosen to be affiliated, as in member, part of the Adventist church.

Ok, since you are having difficulty with the entire meaning of the word affiliate or affiliation. Let's break it down just one more time and go one step further. Also, to keep down the obvious confustion, I will also use the Meriam-webster definitions. I hope this will help. We will start with "affiliate".

Main Entry: 1af·fil·i·ate
Pronunciation: &-'fi-lE-"At
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): -at·ed; -at·ing
Etymology: Medieval Latin affiliatus, past participle of affiliare to adopt as a son, from Latin ad- + filius son -- more at FEMININE
transitive verb
1 a : to bring or receive into close connection as a member or branch b : to associate as a member <affiliates herself with the local club>
2 : to trace the origin of
intransitive verb : to connect or associate oneself :

Now, one interesting change is that the word affiliate did not emphasize the subordinate portion of the definition, which works well for me, but interesting all the same. So now we can clearly see that affiliation does not always mean subordinate, but can just mean connected of associated with, a member of, etc. This definition most accurately decribes the relaitonship between GC and 3ABN. 3ABN teaches and preaches SDA cdotrine, and chooses Adventist ONLY programming. Like I said they show up at GC Sessions, not MegaFest . IOW, they ARE affiliated with the SDA church. Making the description in the court documents yet and still a lite. However, just so it is clear, we will go just one step further and give the definition for the word "member".

Main Entry: mem·ber
Pronunciation: 'mem-b&r
Function: noun
Usage: often attributive
Etymology: Middle English membre, from Anglo-French, from Latin membrum; akin to Gothic mimz flesh, Greek mEros thigh
1 : a body part or organ: as a : LIMB b : PENIS c : a unit of structure in a plant body
2 : one of the individuals composing a group
3 : a person baptized or enrolled in a church
4 : a part of a whole: as a : a syntactic or rhythmic unit of a sentence : CLAUSE b : one of the propositions of a syllogism c : one of the elements of a set or class d : either of the equated elements in a mathematical equation

Now this one I found really interesting, especially definition #3. As it fits this situation so well. Are we not talking about people in leadership, and most of the employees at 3ABN who are baptized members of the Adventist church? I think I remember that some of the employees are not Adventist, but all of the On-air personalities and the pastoral staff are indeed Adventist, are they not?

Now, I hope this was helpful, and a lot less confusing. Forgive my assumption. I thought it was clear that the extra words in the definition were also additional meanings. I was always pretty advanced in the are of spelling, grammar, word meanings and origins, etc. I forget that others may have issues int this, and it might not come as easily. Now, my typing skills were never stellar, just enough ot get me through.

Also, you have not been attacked. The fact is, you all are twisting words, and it is clear, especially when you post only a portion of the definition, link or no. Your point is to say that 3ABN is not answerable to GC, and we totally agree with that. However, that do have a completely voluntary affiliaton with the GC. Their officers and management are ALL members of the SDA church, from Danny on down. Their programming teaches andpromotes the uniquely Adventist doctrine, including thier very name proclaim the Three Angels Message which is definitely unique to the Adventist church. You all are so busy trying to prove that they did not lie, but you can't. They lied to the court.

Why do you think your PERSONAL brainwaves and PERSONALarguments dictate the meaning and intent of 3ABN?

I give up. Believe as you wish. It appears to me your mind accepts or see's nothing but your own PERSONAL opinions, and what's said that tickles your PERSONAL fancy, or supports what you already think or want to believe. (IMO) I know.. I heard it b4, it's your way or the highway... and I've been warned about not respecting your PERSONAL judgments and iyour PERSONAL ideas, so many times...

All I know is if you don't see yourself Personally attacking and insulting others and always excusing it, or justifying it, , then you shouldn't be able to see me or anyone else doing that either...

Other's can and will still see and understand that 3ABN doesn't opperate or say things according to your PERSONAL definitions and iyour PERSONAL nterpretations, and your PERSONALopinions and your PERSONAL judgments and standards, which somehow apply to others and never yourself..

Thank God!

I'm outta this thread! and possibly this forum? toodles...

This post has been edited by Aletheia: Sep 6 2007, 01:30 PM

[PeacefulBe]

I'm still seeing this as simply semantics.

There was one point where both sides were in total agreement. I wish to bring that point forward to try to get back to common ground.

appletree read my post and responded:

http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s...st&p=212091

QUOTE(PeacefulBe @ Aug 23 2007, 12:54 PM)
princessdi,

3abn is not the one legally describing themselves as nondenominational, not affiliated or funded by any denomination, or denominational organization, etc. appletree has very reasonably described that it was the lawyers who wrote this legal stuff. We can only speculate as to why they would need to distance 3abn from the SDA denomination. We all know that it is okay for lawyers to misrepresent the truth a bit, to try to create loopholes by creative wordings or subtle untruths to create the best case for their client. We all know that 3abn would never describe themselves (for they are a supporting ministry of the SDA church and have the contract to prove it)thusly. Right?[/quote]


You explained that well PB. Thank you


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Aletheia, loved the hotel soap story!

edited to attempt to repair quotes

This post has been edited by PeacefulBe: Sep 6 2007, 01:27 PM

[Panama_Pete]

I'm outta this thread! and possibly this forum? toodles...

It is important to announce your daily departures if you are an Amtrak employee.

[WillowRun]

Don Schnieder assured everyone that 3abn was still considered a supporting ministry of the SDA denomination. Does "supporting" sound like they are in a subordinate position to the denom? This is sounding more and more like word manipulation to me.

It is my belief that 3abn is a lay Adventist ministry. Their finances are separate from the NAD or GC and they show exclusively SDA programming. 3abn is a self supporting SDA ministry.

EWTN is a Catholic broadcasting ministry. It is also self supporting. When you look at their programming it's all Catholic. The catholic denomination own EWTN. EWTN is a self supporting Catholic ministry..

HOPETV is owned by the SDA church proper. It is a denominational Ministry of the Seventh Day Adventist church and is supported by donations and conference funding.

Trinity Broacasting Network is a non denominational christian network. Their programming is based on no particular creed...Lots of different ministries with different denominational leanings have programming on TBN. That includes Adventist programming like It is Written and Janice's Attic.

Until such a time that 3abn starts adding Hal Lindsay, Creflo Dollar, and Rick Warren to it's viewing lineup, it will be an idependant Seventh-Day Adventist endeavour.

The Judges are smart enough to see through the lawyerese. Hopefully the jury won't be fooled.

Respectfully,

Willow

[PeacefulBe]

Why do you think your PERSONAL brainwaves and PERSONALarguments dictate the meaning and intent of 3ABN?

I give up. Believe as you wish. It appears to me your mind accepts or see's nothing but your own PERSONAL opinions, and what's said that tickles your PERSONAL fancy, or supports what you already think or want to believe. (IMO) I know.. I heard it b4, it's your way or the highway... and I've been warned about not respecting your PERSONAL judgments and iyour PERSONAL ideas, so many times...

All I know is if you don't see yourself Personally attacking and insulting others and always excusing it, or justifying it, , then you shouldn't be able to see me or anyone else doing that either...

Other's can and will still see and understand that 3ABN doesn't opperate or say things according to your PERSONAL definitions and iyour PERSONAL nterpretations, and your PERSONALopinions and your PERSONAL judgments and standards, which somehow apply to others and never yourself..

Thank God!

I'm outta this thread! and possibly this forum? toodles...

Oh stop with the grandiose pronouncements already, Aletheia. It just doesn't engender the response you are seeking. We aren't surprised, dismayed, remorseful, penitent or horrified when you do so. You know you will never stay away! Whenever you pack your little kerchief of belonging and run away, you always find your way back home.

[Aletheia]

Oh stop with the grandiose pronouncements already, Aletheia. It just doesn't engender the response you are seeking. We aren't surprised, dismayed, remorseful, penitent or horrified when you do so. You know you will never stay away! Whenever you pack your little kerchief of belonging and run away, you always find your way back home.

Did it everoccur to you that others might see your constant scoldings as shrill, offbase, and rude? Did it ever cross your mind that regardless of my feelings, when I leave a discussion or thread topic, I say I am leaving so no further replies are expected of me, and no one wastes their time trying to argue with me further in it, and can spend their time in a more worthwhile manner?

I am not planning on leaving this forum voluntarily. If I do, I will let people know for the same reason. I consider it courteous.

Good-day PB.

This post has been edited by Aletheia: Sep 6 2007, 02:25 PM

[PeacefulBe]

Did it everoccur to you that others might see your constant scoldings as shrill, offbase, and rude? Did it ever cross your mind that regardless of my feelings, when I leave a discussion or thread topic, I say I am leaving so no further replies are expected of me, and no one wastes their time trying to argue with me further in it, and can spend their time in a more worthwhile manner?

I am not planning on leaving this forum voluntarily. If I do, I will let people know for the same reason. I consider it courteous.

Good-day PB.

My constant scoldings..... Why does that amuse me so? Possibly something echoing from my college Psych. 101 class - transference?

No further reply expected, Aletheia, since you have made your leaving of the thread courteously clear.

[Panama_Pete]

Did it ever occur to you that others might see your constant scoldings as shrill, offbase, and rude? Did it ever cross your mind that regardless of my feelings, when I leave a discussion or thread topic, I say I am leaving so no further replies are expected of me, and no one wastes their time trying to argue with me further in it, and can spend their time in a more worthwhile manner?

I am not planning on leaving this forum voluntarily. If I do, I will let people know for the same reason. I consider it courteous.

Good-day PB.

No, it just sound like you are trying to have the last word and to "turn out the lights" on the discussion having presented your point of view.

Personally, I don't find PB to be the purveyor of of constant scoldings, or see her as being shrill, offbase, and rude. In fact, I'm surprised PB puts up with me, since I have every fault in the book, myself.

[WillowRun]

Did it everoccur to you that others might see your constant scoldings as shrill, offbase, and rude?

Um...no

I am praying for you...

One of the Others...

Willow

[princessdi]

Now, you can give up, if you like, but dont' pretend it is because I am making up a whole lot of lies. The definitions came striaght from your preferred source, not mine. I only asked some question and made observations based on those definitions as they apply to this particular situation. If you have no answers to the questions, then just say that. There is absolutely no speculation in my past post. There are hte definitions from the dictionary and the fact of 3ABN's position as it relates to the SDA church. in fact, I eneded up using the very same defintion as Obsrver in his post, and ocming to the same conclusion. So is he wrong also? This fact at the very least makes my post not my own PERSONAL opinions. As you already know when I am voicing an opinion, I say that, i.e. From the Book of Princess, etc. Sorry if you don't like it, but it is the truth anyhow.

Oh yes, and just a warning, parting shot departure posts are not allowed. So, if you are leaving just leave. Any attempt as some "i'm leaving cuz I been done wrong " song will be deleted immediately.

Why do you think your PERSONAL brainwaves and PERSONALarguments dictate the meaning and intent of 3ABN?

I give up. Believe as you wish. It appears to me your mind accepts or see's nothing but your own PERSONAL opinions, and what's said that tickles your PERSONAL fancy, or supports what you already think or want to believe. (IMO) I know.. I heard it b4, it's your way or the highway... and I've been warned about not respecting your PERSONAL judgments and iyour PERSONAL ideas, so many times...

All I know is if you don't see yourself Personally attacking and insulting others and always excusing it, or justifying it, , then you shouldn't be able to see me or anyone else doing that either...

Other's can and will still see and understand that 3ABN doesn't opperate or say things according to your PERSONAL definitions and iyour PERSONAL nterpretations, and your PERSONALopinions and your PERSONAL judgments and standards, which somehow apply to others and never yourself..

Thank God!

I'm outta this thread! and possibly this forum? toodles...

[Richard Sherwin]

Hey not bad, you kept your word for 4 hours and 23 minutes.....

I'm outta this thread! and possibly this forum? toodles...

[Rosyroi]

I prefer (meaning give me that any day) Clinton's lying about his involvement with an intern that the lies the Bush administration continued to trot out about WMD's. Clinton's lie did not cost the U.S. billions of dollars and thousands of U.S. soldiers lives..... carry on....

AMEN, me too in bunches!!!!!

rosyroi

[ex3ABNemployee]

I'm outta this thread! and possibly this forum? toodles...

Again?

[Observer]

I just noticed the following:

AND-- Yes the Gc pays part of JL's salary, the part which concerns him being a GC employed Pastor in a legitimate GC church, 3ABN pays the part which is concerned with their independant ministry and his duties and job related to their ministry and needs. One isn't the other...

What you have stated above would be a highly unusual situation for any church in North America. It is not accurate.

JL is a pastor employed by the IL Conferernce. He is not employed by the General Conference. He is not credentialed by the General Conference. He is credentialed by the IL Conference.

The congregation that JL pastors is not a General Conference congregation. It is an IL Conference congregation.

The General Conference does not pay any part of his salary. The IL Conference pays part of his salary, and 3-ABN pays the rest.

If you wish to check the above, please reference the current edition of the YEARBOOK, page 184.

NOTE: While you will not find explicit substantion on that page for every statement that I have made, if you understand how the SDA Chruch is organized, you will find on tha page substantiation for my statements.

NOTE: I do not fault you for making incorrect statements. Many SDA members do not understand how the SDA Chruch is organized, your misconceptions are probably shared by many others.

NOTE: The statements that I have made above may raise questions in people's minds in regard to statements that I have made about myself. So, to clairfy, if there are any questions: I am credentialed by the General Conference. I am employed by the Federal Government, not the General Conference. My salary is totally paid by the Federal Government, and no part of it comes from any SDA agency. As far as denominational supervision is concerned, I am supervised by Adventist Chaplaincy Ministries (a General Conference Agency), and not by the Rocky Mountain Conference.

[Johann]

I just noticed the following:
What you have stated above would be a highly unusual situation for any church in North America. It is not accurate.

JL is a pastor employed by the IL Conferernce. He is not employed by the General Conference. He is not credentialed by the General Conference. He is credentialed by the IL Conference.

The congregation that JL pastors is not a General Conference congregation. It is an IL Conference congregation.

The General Conference does not pay any part of his salary. The IL Conference pays part of his salary, and 3-ABN pays the rest.

If you wish to check the above, please reference the current edition of the YEARBOOK, page 184.

NOTE: While you will not find explicit substantion on that page for every statement that I have made, if you understand how the SDA Chruch is organized, you will find on tha page substantiation for my statements.

NOTE: I do not fault you for making incorrect statements. Many SDA members do not understand how the SDA Chruch is organized, your misconceptions are probably shared by many others.

NOTE: The statements that I have made above may raise questions in people's minds in regard to statements that I have made about myself. So, to clairfy, if there are any questions: I am credentialed by the General Conference. I am employed by the Federal Government, not the General Conference. My salary is totally paid by the Federal Government, and no part of it comes from any SDA agency. As far as denominational supervision is concerned, I am supervised by Adventist Chaplaincy Ministries (a General Conference Agency), and not by the Rocky Mountain Conference.

Having been employed by various conferences in the Seventh-day Adventist Church originating back in 1951, my employment has followed the rules as you have outlined above. This is true of every person employed by our church, so your statement is true.

This post has been edited by Johann: Sep 7 2007, 06:47 AM