Linda's New Website Options

[princessdi]

Naw! You kiddin'!

Calvin, I saw it exactly the way you saw it.

Dona

[inga]

Okay, I must admit that my first reactions to Linda's "devotional" was a bit of embarassment for her. She has done better writing. It was just too transparently biographical, and while Calvin's assessment was a little harsh, I can see some reason for it. A little revision could help a lot.

If Linda is going to put up a completely new web site that is forward-looking, and this is the only reference to the past, the essay would be appropriate. However, for her sake, I still hope she would revise and polish it.

[Panama_Pete]

Okay, I must admit that my first reactions to Linda's "devotional" was a bit of embarrassment for her. She has done better writing. It was just too transparently biographical, and while Calvin's assessment was a little harsh, I can see some reason for it. A little revision could help a lot.

If Linda is going to put up a completely new web site that is forward-looking, and this is the only reference to the past, the essay would be appropriate. However, for her sake, I still hope she would revise and polish it.

Let me correct this right now.

Linda Shelton wrote an Allegory, not a Devotional . That's wherein lies the problem.

For an Allegory, Linda Shelton did just fine. It's just been accidentally misidentified as being a Devotional and held to that standard by mistake.

Here's what an allegory is:

http://www.tnellen.com/cybereng/lit_terms/allegory.html

Allegory is a form of extended metaphor, in which objects, persons, and actions in a narrative, are equated with the meanings that lie outside the narrative itself. The underlying meaning has moral, social, religious, or political significance, and characters are often personifications of abstract ideas as charity, greed, or envy.

Thus an allegory is a story with two meanings, a literal meaning and a symbolic meaning.

Example:
Fairie Queen Spenser; Pilgrim's Progress by John Bunyan; Young Goodman Brown by Nathaniel Hawthorne

[fallible humanbe...]

Let me correct this right now.
Linda Shelton wrote an Allegory, not a Devotional . That's wherein lies the problem.
For an Allegory, Linda Shelton did just fine. It's just been accidentally misidentified as being a Devotional and held to that standard by mistake.

Well in this post, Johann, who claims to be in regular communication with the former Mrs. Shelton, refers to it as a "devotional" and indicates it is one amongst many. Now, either he or Linda seems to be mistaken in calling it a devotional (if you are correct in your definitive stance that it is allegory and not devotional) - but in any event, they have referred to it as such so it has been discussed appropriately. Unless they change their classification it must be assumed that they both see it as a devotional . . .

- FHB

[Panama_Pete]

Well in this post, Johann, who claims to be in regular communication with the former Mrs. Shelton, refers to it as a "devotional" and indicates it is one amongst many. Now, either he or Linda seems to be mistaken in calling it a devotional (if you are correct in your definitive stance that it is allegory and not devotional) - but in any event, they have referred to it as such so it has been discussed appropriately. Unless they change their classification it must be assumed that they both see it as a devotional . . .

- FHB

First of all, it's an Allegory. It just is. Any teacher from any Country Day School in America would certainly be able to expalin it to you, Fallible. Maybe you should go look for such a school, if you know where any are located.

Secondly, Johann communicates to others using several languages -- having lived all over the world -- and it is understandable if his vocabulary has a few differences from those exhibited among the self-appointed elite in America's Dairyland.

Therefore, your comment about its "classification" is completely pointless.




This post has been edited by Panama_Pete: Jan 7 2008, 02:07 AM

[fallible humanbe...]

First of all, it's an Allegory.

Pete,

I didn't argue this point . . . in fact I am inclined to agree with you, however, Johann and Linda have indicated that said allegory is a devotional - is that possible? Can an allegory be a devotional? Seems possible . . . maybe you can zip an email off to Linda and see if she sees it as an allegory that she wrote as a devotional . . . and I am pretty sure that Johann is learned enough to know the difference between an allegory that is just an allegory and nothing else - and a devotional, especially if the author told him it was a devotional.

- FHB

This post has been edited by fallible humanbeing: Jan 7 2008, 02:15 AM

[Panama_Pete]

Pete,

I didn't argue this point . . . in fact I am inclined to agree with you, however, Johann and Linda have indicated that said allegory is a devotional - is that possible? Can an allegory be a devotional? Seems possible . . . maybe you can zip an email off to Linda and see if she sees it as an allegory that she wrote as a devotional.

- FHB

I look at a Rembrandt painting and enjoy it; I surely don't need to contact the 17th century artist to find out what he intended before I can understand what's right in front of my eyes.

Therefore, I really don't feel a need to contact Linda Shelton, for the same reason: I've got the actual Shelton manuscript right in front of my eyes and it stands on its own merits, as does the painting.

[Johann]

Pete,

I didn't argue this point . . . in fact I am inclined to agree with you, however, Johann and Linda have indicated that said allegory is a devotional - is that possible? Can an allegory be a devotional? Seems possible . . . maybe you can zip an email off to Linda and see if she sees it as an allegory that she wrote as a devotional . . . and I am pretty sure that Johann is learned enough to know the difference between an allegory that is just an allegory and nothing else - and a devotional, especially if the author told him it was a devotional.

- FHB

Look at what Ellen White writes about one of the greatest allegories ever written, and what it has done for people:

"Success does not depend so much upon age or circumstances in life as upon the real love that one has for others. Look at John Bunyan inclosed by prison walls. His enemies think that they have placed him where his work for others must cease. But not so. He is not idle. The love for souls continues to burn within him, and from his dark prison-house there springs a light which shines to all parts of the civilized world. His book, "The Pilgrim's Progress," written under these trying circumstances, portrays the Christian life so accurately, and presents the love of Christ in such an attractive light, that hundreds and thousands have been converted through its instrumentality." {HS 151.2}

Another well known allegory was told by none other than Jesus Christ, recorded as the Rich man and Lazarus.

Would you be as hard on a preacher using these allegories in a sermon on 3ABN as you seem to be on Linda? Would you chide them for calling their talks "devotional"?

[fallible humanbe...]

Johann,

I have no problem with the writing in question being an allegory. I enjoy allegory, especially the one I referred to earlier, and indicated seems to have been the framework that Mrs. Shelton's work was wrapped around. I don't even question if the writing was intended to be a devotional . . . I do, as others do as well, see it as a rather vindictive, biographical writing aimed at her former husband and 3ABN. That position being stated it would call into question whether it is truly devotional in nature, meaning does it draw one closer to God?

Let me answer that question myself. It may very well serve to bring hope and peace to those who know nothing of the situations that swirl in Mrs. Shelton's life (after all the Lord can make pearls out of mud). However, for those who know the background, I see no way it can be viewed that way as it is obviously an attack rather than a devotional.

No one really discounts Mrs. Shelton's pain through this process - all would be pained at the loss she experienced. But, relief from that pain comes from forgiveness and acceptance of ones own responsibility for ones decisions. To date it appears as if Mrs. Shelton has done neither . . . she has not forgiven others for wrongs real or perceived and has not indicated that she accepts responsibility for her actions that were detrimental to her relationship with her former husband. In any relationship, marriage or otherwise, each party is 100% responsible for themselves within that relationship, no one makes another make a certain choice. Mrs. Shelton need not have committed adultery to damage her marriage . . . and this is were all but Mr. and Mrs. Shelton are in the dark since we weren't there behind the closed doors. You can claim that you were told by Mrs. Shelton what happened but you only have her word to go on . . . you choose to believe her, this doesn't make you right. I know the same can be said of my position which makes debate on whose fault the breakdown of their marriage was a futile exercise doesn't it?

This entire experience is based on people taking sides and attempting to point 100% of the blame at one party or the other - when in truth there is equitable blame to go around. Rather than this approach it would have been better had those closest to the situation, like yourself, not attempt to vilify the other side. As you did it spread far and wide. Now, this so-called devotional seems to continue the process another round. What can you do to heal the two principals . . . Linda and Danny . . . isn't that your ministerial commission, to help bring those you come into contact with back into the image of our God? I didn't come to this discussion with the intent to vilify Mrs. Shelton, though some things I have posted may very well have seemed to do so . . . what I did intend to do was to bring balance to an obviously one sided discussion about the issues. Also, to point out error in the "reporting," when it happened, in order to evidence the process of fabricating allegations against 3ABN and its leaders thereby doing my part to keep the discussion on a factual level.

- FHB

Look at what Ellen White writes about one of the greatest allegories ever written, and what it has done for people:

"Success does not depend so much upon age or circumstances in life as upon the real love that one has for others. Look at John Bunyan inclosed by prison walls. His enemies think that they have placed him where his work for others must cease. But not so. He is not idle. The love for souls continues to burn within him, and from his dark prison-house there springs a light which shines to all parts of the civilized world. His book, "The Pilgrim's <a href="http://" target="_blank"></a>Progress," written under these trying circumstances, portrays the Christian life so accurately, and presents the love of Christ in such an attractive light, that hundreds and thousands have been converted through its instrumentality." {HS 151.2}

Another well known allegory was told by none other than Jesus Christ, recorded as the Rich man and Lazarus.

Would you be as hard on a preacher using these allegories in a sermon on 3ABN as you seem to be on Linda? Would you chide them for calling their talks "devotional"?

This post has been edited by fallible humanbeing: Jan 7 2008, 10:41 AM

[Pickle]

But, relief from that pain comes from forgiveness and acceptance of ones own responsibility for ones decisions.

Seems like Walt could take responsibility for saying that Linda defied the board when, according to him, there were no board meetings prior to May 30, 2004, for her to defy.

And it seems like Danny could take responsibility for his blatant disregard of Bible, Spirit of Prophecy, and Seventh-day Adventist teachings when he divorced Linda without biblical grounds.

And it seems like every 3ABN board member can take responsibility for the stupid decisions they have made which have resulted, based on the evidence released thus far, in the banishment of Linda for the high crime and misdemeanor of talking too long on the telephone, while rewarding one accused of far worse with continued airtime, a gift of around 40 acres of land, and support in a frivolous lawsuit.

[jodi]

Johann, I suggest a more appropiate place to post stories like this is in the Devotional Story section of BSDA.

I respectfully disagree with you Calvin. I believe everyone posting on this 3ABN section needs to read this, print if off (as I am now doing) and read it every day as a reminder of what Jesus did for us and continues to do on a daily basis. Thank you, Johann, for this beautiful story as we await our Lord's return, which is now one year closer! God bless you in your endeavors and also, thank you Calvin, for making this site available to us all. I don't have time to read through all the sections, but as I am closely connected to 3ABN, I do try to keep up on this one. Again, thanks.

Jodi

[SoulEspresso]

Whether or not it's an allegory or a devotional is irrelevant. The question is whether or not it directs a person appropriately towards Christ.

Of course it's personal. Mrs. Shelton is a media figure. The medium is the message, and in a situation like this, most people reading her work are going to know something, right or wrong, about the situation. She cannot not address it, because people will perceive it in the background of whatever she writes, whether it's there or not.

How much credibility the piece has, consequently and unfortunately, seems to depend on one's a priori assumptions -- whether those are fact-based (read: documented) or not -- rather than its own merits.

[Johann]

I respectfully disagree with you Calvin. I believe everyone posting on this 3ABN section needs to read this, print if off (as I am now doing) and read it every day as a reminder of what Jesus did for us and continues to do on a daily basis. Thank you, Johann, for this beautiful story as we await our Lord's return, which is now one year closer! God bless you in your endeavors and also, thank you Calvin, for making this site available to us all. I don't have time to read through all the sections, but as I am closely connected to 3ABN, I do try to keep up on this one. Again, thanks.

Jodi

Thank you, Jodi, for your courage. Yes, it takes courage for someone closely connected to 3ABN to step out and stand for the truth.

Our efforts will bear fruit - with God's help.

This post has been edited by Johann: Jan 7 2008, 06:03 PM

[Fran]

I am still reeling over this thread.

I believe every one has forgotten what she has and is going through! I enjoyed the story!

She has not been slinging mud! She, of all people has every right to fight, but has chosen not to! I would have attacked with my claws out to scratch somebodies eyes out. I would tell one who would listen. I would file suit after suit and win!

Linda writes a few paragraphs, and is spoken of as a mudslinger.

God knew I would loose it and did not put this burden on me. God was with Linda to be able to stand under the weight of her ex-husbands lies.

We have evidence galore about Danny. He HAS been sling mud ... and here I read that Linda writes a few sentences and is slinging mud. What is wrong with this picture?

Johann, thank you. I enjoyed it.

Thank you, Linda, for writing it.

[Johann]

I am still reeling over this thread.

I believe every one has forgotten what she has and is going through! I enjoyed the story!

She has not been slinging mud! She, of all people has every right to fight, but has chosen not to! I would have attacked with my claws out to scratch somebodies eyes out. I would tell one who would listen. I would file suit after suit and win!

Linda writes a few paragraphs, and is spoken of as a mudslinger.

God knew I would loose it and did not put this burden on me. God was with Linda to be able to stand under the weight of her ex-husbands lies.

We have evidence galore about Danny. He HAS been sling mud ... and here I read that Linda writes a few sentences and is slinging mud. What is wrong with this picture?

Johann, thank you. I enjoyed it.

Thank you, Linda, for writing it.

Linda is not even participating in this discussion. How many attacks on Linda have we seen in these discussions? Then when something appears from her, it seems like it is gruesome that she writes an allegory with a spiritual application. She is immediately told this is not a way to write. Has life not been like that to her? Is it sacriligous of her to devote that part of her life to the divine?

Thank you, Fran. You sound like you understand. And that you received a blessing when Linda turns our eyes to the divine help that has been available to her in her circumstance.

Linda is used to such accusations. At one time she told someone that the time during the first camp meeting where Danny told her to stay away had been to her like a basement experience.

Somebody must have made a tale out of it, because one of the pastors who still is at least weekly on 3ABN told me he had the definite proof that Linda is a liar. That certain proof was that Linda had insisted she had been locked in a basement during the camp meeting, and he knew that was a lie. When I insisted we tallk to the people Linda was supposed to have lied to, he refused to let me contact them, even though I was in town.

This was a proof that she is a liar! And they have never given any other proofs that I know of.

God has sustained Linda under this pressure and burden. Is it evil of her to tell her experience?

I wonder how that man can call hiimself a pastor, receive a salary from tithes for his devotionals in the church where he serves as a pastor. It seems acceptable to still have him participate in a weekly program on 3ABN!!! (I saw him there the other day).

This post has been edited by Johann: Jan 9 2008, 04:49 PM