 Last Day Events, Can we be sure? |
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| Guest_statrei_* |
 May 31 2006, 07:38 AM
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#16
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QUOTE(Clay @ May 31 2006, 07:12 AM) [snapback]132870[/snapback] As one member put it and I agree, I am a christian first who happens to worship with seventh day adventists..... My take is that I am human first. There is nothing wrong with being human though we seem to have bought into the contrary Augustinian idea. On the Sabbath I participate in corporate worship with Seventh-day Adventists. During the week my worship is conducted with all kinds of people whose philosophy is only secondary to their worth as members of the human race. |
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May 31 2006, 08:00 AM
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#17
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 1,000 + posts  Group: Members Posts: 1,947 Joined: 24-December 04 Member No.: 770 |
QUOTE(seeshell @ May 30 2006, 10:50 PM) [snapback]132862[/snapback] why does who remain adventist? Sorry, I should have been more specific. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there seems to be a lot of church-bashing going on, and I just wonder why anyone who really believes the church is so mistaken in prophetic interpretation and abandoned by God would even want to be connected with it. My question was particularly directed to statrei and clay. I have my own issues with "the church", but if I believed it was so dead wrong in its official teachings and God had left it, I think I would want to be connected with something that better fit my beliefs, if anything. I don't want to be smart, I just wonder.  mmm, what i don't understand, and i aint picking at you in particular seeshell, is why if someone has a comment that isn't lauding the sda church to the 9th heaven, why why why is that someone automatically accused of church bashing? and then if someone happens to share an experience in the sda church, this one and only god-blessed church, that isn't all sunshine and light, that someone is accused of not being a christian, not being a sda. why not just come out and call them a spawn of satan? wait, lemme think on that... it's possible that this has already happened. stepford wives? hah! what we really want is a stepford church. for all the posturing of study, learn, be convinced in your own heart, we don't seem to want that. a cryin shame. i'm looking forward to the day when they hand out the mind-numbing drugs along with the bulletins when i enter the sanctuary (and what a mis-nomer that is). i'll be sure to arrive on time. oh yeah, if the above is  , sorry. the lithium hasn't kicked in yet this morning.
This post has been edited by beanchild: May 31 2006, 08:01 AM -------------------- "NATURAL FABRIC! NATURAL FABRIC!!!"
largo, mt, 961 |
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May 31 2006, 08:26 AM
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#18
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 5,000 + posts  Group: Members Posts: 10,513 Joined: 17-January 05 From: Nashville, Tennessee Member No.: 830 Gender: f |
Amen!
 QUOTE(gracetoyou @ May 30 2006, 08:42 AM) [snapback]132746[/snapback] And home churches would have the same problem as the organized church and for the same reason - they would have people who are not fully converted to God and are controlled by their selfish natures. Israel was God's church for @1500 years and look at the numerous times they apostasized from God. God gave them 1500 years to get their act together. The Seventh-day Adventist church has been in existence only @150 years. Revelation lists 7 churches from the beginning of the Christian era to the end. The last church is Laodicea - a church that is filled with problems and that He is about to spit out of His mouth unless they repent. Notice that there is NO church after Laodicea. If you study the Bible and Spirit of Prophecy writings on last day events, you will learn about the shaking, a time when, because of persecution, the church is purified and the latter rain is poured out. The church will not be purified until then. A book you might find interesting is one by Ty Gibson titled Abandon Ship?. It deals with the issues you have brought up. Another great book which all Adventists should read is by Jim Hohnberger titled It's About People. Jim Hohnberger ministers both to conference and independent Adventists and he has found that there are unsanctified attitudes within both groups. They, and we, all need the gospel. -------------------- "No weapon formed against YOU (Sarah--and every Believer/Servant of God) shall prosper and every tongue that rises against you in judgement you will condemn...."--Isaiah 54:17
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May 31 2006, 10:58 AM
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#19
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 1,000 + posts Group: Members Posts: 1,398 Joined: 10-April 06 From: The Hill Country Member No.: 1,679 Gender: f |
QUOTE(Clay @ May 31 2006, 05:12 AM) [snapback]132870[/snapback] the church can be wrong and people can still remain members hashing out various beliefs and enjoying the fellowship. Why does it have to be an either/or thing with folks? I don't agree with many of the things that the United States does, that does not mean I am interested in moving elsewhere. Let me clarify, when I stated God has left the building I mean that it is possible that like His response to Israel he no longer utilizes them for his plan to share his son with the world. It does not mean that he as forsaken them, it means they have been pulled from the game and benched. The B team will be taking the field... I am not arrogant enough to believe that the sda church will not be set aside and other methods used to show who The Creator is. I am not arrogant enough to believe that this church can never be wrong about anything. Lastly I am not arrogant enough to believe that this church is "the only true church." I understand where you are coming from, however for me I do not have to associate myself only with those who believe as I do... that is why I enjoy the fellowship here on BSDA, we may not agree, and its okay, we talk, discuss, hash it out, and at the end of it all, we remain brothers and sisters in Christ... As one member put it and I agree, I am a christian first who happens to worship with seventh day adventists..... OK, Clay, I can see your point too. As I said before, I have my own issues with "the church" and I certainly don't believe it is without faults. I don't have to agree entirely with someone to enjoy associating with them, either.  My issues are with the structure, however, not the basic doctrine or prophetic interpretation. I appreciate your clarification of the God leaving the SDA building statement. It did come across to me as if you were saying God has abandoned the SDA church. I'm feeling some disdain coming through in some posts...not only for the church organization but for the doctrines and beliefs. It would seem that it would be a source of constant frustration to belong to an organization holding basic beliefs you so disagree with. I'd sure be frustrated belonging to, say, the Mormon church, despite whatever fellowship I might find there. Bean, I surely don't advocate turning a blind eye to the shortcomings of the church. I just get such a sense of negativity from some of these posts, though, it makes me wonder...it's like the church, with its beliefs, is this dispicable, stupid thing. It ain't all sunshine and light, and I'm not going to pretend it is...but I believe the basic doctines. When the organized church changes those, then you can count me out. I can associate with my friends without having to espouse an organization I don't agree with. I think we usually take our mind-numbing drugs before we ever get to church.  -------------------- Shelley
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." Mark Twain "It is not my first object in life to make people like me." Elizabeth Prentiss "Níor dhún Dia doras riamh nar oscail Sé ceann eile." |
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May 31 2006, 11:22 AM
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#20
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 5,000 + posts Group: Administrator Posts: 19,829 Joined: 20-July 03 From: Alabama Member No.: 4 Gender: m |
QUOTE I'm feeling some disdain coming through in some posts...not only for the church organization but for the doctrines and beliefs. It would seem that it would be a source of constant frustration to belong to an organization holding basic beliefs you so disagree with. I'd sure be frustrated belonging to, say, the Mormon church, despite whatever fellowship I might find there. The organization structure needs revision..... actually I wouldn't mind seeing totally dismantling and starting from scratch, but that's just me.... The doctrinal positions need to be reviewed, re-studied, and revised where needed... our truth is progressive, we don't know everything, so as we learn more we have to revise our views... While you may be frustrated, I am not... I enjoy the fellowship... I also enjoy asking the critical questions, because God has given us a brain to think with.... some call what I do griping, I call it interaction... -------------------- "you are as sick as your secrets...." -quote from Celebrity Rehab-
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May 31 2006, 01:21 PM
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#21
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1,000 + posts Group: Members Posts: 1,398 Joined: 10-April 06 From: The Hill Country Member No.: 1,679 Gender: f |
QUOTE(Clay @ May 31 2006, 11:22 AM) [snapback]132948[/snapback] The organization structure needs revision..... actually I wouldn't mind seeing totally dismantling and starting from scratch, but that's just me.... The doctrinal positions need to be reviewed, re-studied, and revised where needed... our truth is progressive, we don't know everything, so as we learn more we have to revise our views... While you may be frustrated, I am not... I enjoy the fellowship... I also enjoy asking the critical questions, because God has given us a brain to think with.... some call what I do griping, I call it interaction... It's good you're not frustrated. I probably get frustrated too easily. I hope, though, that you see your church attendance as something more than a social/debating time, though I don't say those things are wrong, church is pretty hollow if that's all there is, IMHO.I agree, truth is progressive. Keeping in mind that it doesn't contradict itself, old truth or new. Now, I just have to say this...I just have to...  ... as a surprisingly insightful Klingon once said, everyone knows the Vulcans are the intellectual puppets of the Federation...the Romulans, now that's where it's at. And their ships are much cooler.  SORRY. -------------------- Shelley
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." Mark Twain "It is not my first object in life to make people like me." Elizabeth Prentiss "Níor dhún Dia doras riamh nar oscail Sé ceann eile." |
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May 31 2006, 02:14 PM
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#22
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 1,000 + posts Group: Charter Member Posts: 2,251 Joined: 20-July 03 From: Prague, the Czech Republic Member No.: 19 |
SEESHELL WROTE:
I agree, truth is progressive. Keeping in mind that it doesn't contradict itself, old truth or new. ------ahem ... cough, cough, ... aaaahh... once upon a time we knew the truth that the earth was flat. Likewise we knew the truth that Jesus was returning in 1844 ... right?? -------------------- This is how change happens: someone hurts, and sooner or later decides to do something about it.
--TRAITOR by Matthew Woodring Stover - p.29 |
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May 31 2006, 02:29 PM
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#23
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5,000 + posts Group: Administrator Posts: 19,829 Joined: 20-July 03 From: Alabama Member No.: 4 Gender: m |
QUOTE(LeePaDee @ May 31 2006, 03:14 PM) [snapback]132975[/snapback] SEESHELL WROTE: I agree, truth is progressive. Keeping in mind that it doesn't contradict itself, old truth or new. ------ahem ... cough, cough, ... aaaahh... once upon a time we knew the truth that the earth was flat. Likewise we knew the truth that Jesus was returning in 1844 ... right?? excellent point Lee.... truth doesn't contradict itself is not necessarily ummm "the truth..." -------------------- "you are as sick as your secrets...." -quote from Celebrity Rehab-
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| Guest_statrei_* |
May 31 2006, 03:07 PM
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#24
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QUOTE(LeePaDee @ May 31 2006, 04:14 PM) [snapback]132975[/snapback] SEESHELL WROTE: I agree, truth is progressive. Keeping in mind that it doesn't contradict itself, old truth or new. ------ahem ... cough, cough, ... aaaahh... once upon a time we knew the truth that the earth was flat. Likewise we knew the truth that Jesus was returning in 1844 ... right?? It is amazing. I was thinking of this just a few hours ago. That is the one way the church has kept the minds of its people enslaved by claiming that new truth never contradicts old truth. That is the same as saying "This is it. Ne Plus Ultra." And it has worked. |
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Jun 1 2006, 02:39 PM
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#25
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1,000 + posts Group: Members Posts: 1,398 Joined: 10-April 06 From: The Hill Country Member No.: 1,679 Gender: f |
QUOTE(Clay @ May 31 2006, 03:29 PM) [snapback]132976[/snapback] excellent point Lee.... truth doesn't contradict itself is not necessarily ummm "the truth..." QUOTE(statrei @ May 31 2006, 04:07 PM) [snapback]132982[/snapback] It is amazing. I was thinking of this just a few hours ago. That is the one way the church has kept the minds of its people enslaved by claiming that new truth never contradicts old truth. That is the same as saying "This is it. Ne Plus Ultra." And it has worked. So...is there anything either of you believe as a solid fact?
This post has been edited by seeshell: Jun 1 2006, 02:44 PM -------------------- Shelley
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." Mark Twain "It is not my first object in life to make people like me." Elizabeth Prentiss "Níor dhún Dia doras riamh nar oscail Sé ceann eile." |
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Jun 1 2006, 02:46 PM
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#26
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5,000 + posts Group: Administrator Posts: 19,829 Joined: 20-July 03 From: Alabama Member No.: 4 Gender: m |
QUOTE(seeshell @ Jun 1 2006, 02:39 PM) [snapback]133129[/snapback] So...is there anything either of you believe as a solid fact? The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. But the opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth. -Niels Bohr- -------------------- "you are as sick as your secrets...." -quote from Celebrity Rehab-
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Jun 1 2006, 02:59 PM
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#27
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 5,000 + posts Group: Administrator Posts: 11,145 Joined: 21-July 03 From: Northern California Member No.: 47 Gender: f |
The point is that the two teachings Lee mentioned were thought to be "the truth" in their time. Since there has been more study that proves them both to have been always wrong. The world was never flat and Jesus was never coming in 1844. The present truth is not contradictory as it is progressive. The people who believe those things worked with what infomation they had. When more information was gathered or was changed, "the truth" also changed. It is just acepted that we had scientific and educational advances that changed the truth, but not contradicted it
I believe it to be the same with prophecy. The people making the prophecy in Bible times, worked with the information they had. Even if their prophecy came from a vision, they were at a loss to described things in the future they themselves had never even thought of. If someone was shown the same vision today, they might describe it differently. Why? Because more information has been gather, and things thought to be "truth" has changed, just from the natural progression of things, scientific, technological, and educational advancements, etc. QUOTE(seeshell @ Jun 1 2006, 12:39 PM) [snapback]133129[/snapback] So...is there anything either of you believe as a solid fact? This post has been edited by princessdi: Jun 1 2006, 03:00 PM -------------------- TTFN
Di And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose---Romans 8:28 A great many people believe they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices.-- William James It is better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt.- Mark Twain |
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Jun 1 2006, 03:04 PM
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#28
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 Advanced Member  Group: Members Posts: 54 Joined: 2-July 04 From: Hemet,CA Member No.: 444 Gender: m |
QUOTE(seeshell @ Jun 1 2006, 12:39 PM) So...is there anything either of you believe as a solid fact? 1 Cor. 15...(NIV) =================================================== 3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance : that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, =================================================== FIRST IMPORTANCE...He died, was buried, and rose again!!! Praise His Holy Name! This post has been edited by meadbd: Jun 1 2006, 03:05 PM -------------------- ========================================
"If Christianity has never disturbed us, we have not yet learned what it is" William Temple ------------------------------------------------------- My Webpage PRAISE & GLORY TO THE LORD! ------------------------------------------------------- "For the Kingdom of Heaven is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and joy and peace in the Holy Spirit" Rom.14:17 Bill ======================================== |
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Jun 1 2006, 03:04 PM
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#29
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5,000 + posts Group: Administrator Posts: 19,829 Joined: 20-July 03 From: Alabama Member No.: 4 Gender: m |
Jonah prophesied that Nineveh would be destroyed... that was "the truth." However repentance occurred, the city was not destroyed... what happened to "the truth?"
How do we know that what John saw and wrote in Revelation remains "the truth?" -------------------- "you are as sick as your secrets...." -quote from Celebrity Rehab-
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Jun 2 2006, 01:41 AM
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#30
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1,000 + posts Group: Charter Member Posts: 2,251 Joined: 20-July 03 From: Prague, the Czech Republic Member No.: 19 |
SEESHELL WROTE:
So...is there anything either of you believe as a solid fact? ------ONE PLUS ONE IS TWO. Sunshine feels good on my body ... on a nice spring day. Humans learn more and more facts which contradict what was known to be fact in the past. The teachings of the Gospels are helpful in understanding the Kingdom of heaven I accept by faith that Jesus is coming to this earth again. (unsolid fact??) -------------------- This is how change happens: someone hurts, and sooner or later decides to do something about it.
--TRAITOR by Matthew Woodring Stover - p.29 |
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