 Last Day Events, Can we be sure? |
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| Guest_statrei_* |
 Jun 2 2006, 08:37 AM
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#31
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QUOTE(seeshell @ Jun 1 2006, 04:39 PM) [snapback]133129[/snapback] So...is there anything either of you believe as a solid fact?  You sound as if you think that there is a federal mandating that everyone must believe something to be solid fact. All truth is probable. That I know to be solid fact (as much as facts can be solid.) You may think that iron is solid but the atoms that are constantly flowing in it won't agree. |
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Jun 2 2006, 08:53 AM
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#32
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 1,000 + posts  Group: Members Posts: 1,947 Joined: 24-December 04 Member No.: 770 |
QUOTE(Clay @ Jun 1 2006, 05:04 PM) [snapback]133140[/snapback] Jonah prophesied that Nineveh would be destroyed... that was "the truth." However repentance occurred, the city was not destroyed... what happened to "the truth?" How do we know that what John saw and wrote in Revelation remains "the truth?" ...that is interesting, because scripture says that if a prophet says something and it doesn't happen that prophet is false. but jonah's prophet card hasn't been revoked, that i know of... -------------------- "NATURAL FABRIC! NATURAL FABRIC!!!"
largo, mt, 961 |
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Jun 2 2006, 09:15 AM
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#33
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 1,000 + posts Group: Members Posts: 1,398 Joined: 10-April 06 From: The Hill Country Member No.: 1,679 Gender: f |
How about "I am the Lord, I change not." Mal. 3:6. Is that subject to revision as well?
I can agree that human interpretations of things at different times in history may be incomplete or flawed or downright wrong...but the truth was always there, even if we didn't see it. Is there anything that is not up for revision? Does God keep changing the rules of the game? And how can we be sure our newly revised edition will be any more accurate than the one we threw out? Seems like a floundering way to live. A dull gray world where nothing is certain and there is no right or wrong...and every man did what seemed right in his own eyes. God's threatenings as well as His promises are conditional...and ain't it a good thing? Maybe He didn't tell Jonah that threat was conditional...He isn't obligated to tell us everything He knows. It would be arrogant to assume He is. As for 1844, OK. They got it partly wrong...the part about something happening was right on track, they just messed up on what that something was. I'm not saying don't study things out for yourself. By all means, study and study and then study some more. Does 1844 mean that everything else those people studied and believed must be mistaken as well? Those people studied like a lot of us have never done...they were serious about it. I guess we should be too. Jeremiah 6:16 -- "Thus saith the Lord, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls." I gather from that statement that not everything old is bad... Nope, no federal mandate requiring you believe anything at all. I don't expect to change your mind either. I just wondered why a person would want to bother with a church they seem to find so backward.  If you are finding something at church that meets a need, that's great.-------------------- Shelley
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." Mark Twain "It is not my first object in life to make people like me." Elizabeth Prentiss "Níor dhún Dia doras riamh nar oscail Sé ceann eile." |
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Jun 2 2006, 01:06 PM
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#34
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 5,000 + posts  Group: Administrator Posts: 19,829 Joined: 20-July 03 From: Alabama Member No.: 4 Gender: m |
seashell wrote:
QUOTE God's threatenings as well as His promises are conditional...and ain't it a good thing? Maybe He didn't tell Jonah that threat was conditional...He isn't obligated to tell us everything He knows. It would be arrogant to assume He is. How do we know that they are conditional? And if they are conditional, then that means all that stuff in Revelation is also conditional, are you okay with that? btw, I liked the quote from Star Trek.... you are right the Romulan's ships were awesome.... -------------------- "you are as sick as your secrets...." -quote from Celebrity Rehab-
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Jun 2 2006, 03:20 PM
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#35
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 1,000 + posts Group: Charter Member Posts: 2,251 Joined: 20-July 03 From: Prague, the Czech Republic Member No.: 19 |
SEESHELL WROTE:
Is there anything that is not up for revision? ------I am not sure ... but the Bible tells us to "prove all things + hold fast to that which is good" Does God keep changing the rules of the game? ------No, we humans keep learning WHAT the game is ... we *think* that we've got the rules, but we don't even know what the name of the game is!! And how can we be sure our newly revised edition will be any more accurate than the one we threw out? ------We cannot be sure, that's why we keep studying and studying (as you've said). We run our lives based on the info (truth) that we have. When we learned that the earth was not flat, it was human perception that changed ... not the truth itself. P-Di said it a different way, when people learned more, the truth changed. I say it this way: **we** change as we learn more. Seems like a floundering way to live. A dull gray world where nothing is certain and there is no right or wrong...and every man did what seemed right in his own eyes ------It does not seem floundering to me. My faith in God's guidance is certain, I am determined to keep learning (that means asking questiions), and to keep growing (that means changing). Because our God cares for each of us personally, I am certain He will guide you in a way different from me ... perhaps that will seem like every man doing what right in his own eyes. -------------------- This is how change happens: someone hurts, and sooner or later decides to do something about it.
--TRAITOR by Matthew Woodring Stover - p.29 |
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| Guest_statrei_* |
Jun 2 2006, 03:40 PM
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#36
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QUOTE(seeshell @ Jun 2 2006, 11:15 AM) [snapback]133217[/snapback] How about "I am the Lord, I change not." Mal. 3:6. Is that subject to revision as well? |
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Jun 2 2006, 06:34 PM
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#37
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1,000 + posts Group: Members Posts: 1,398 Joined: 10-April 06 From: The Hill Country Member No.: 1,679 Gender: f |
QUOTE(Clay @ Jun 2 2006, 02:06 PM) [snapback]133245[/snapback] seashell wrote: How do we know that they are conditional? And if they are conditional, then that means all that stuff in Revelation is also conditional, are you okay with that? btw, I liked the quote from Star Trek.... you are right the Romulan's ships were awesome.... So maybe the Second Coming of Christ is conditional...? Perhaps we should make a distinction between promises and prophecies... QUOTE(LeePaDee @ Jun 2 2006, 04:20 PM) [snapback]133252[/snapback] SEESHELL WROTE: Is there anything that is not up for revision? ------I am not sure ... but the Bible tells us to "prove all things + hold fast to that which is good" Does God keep changing the rules of the game? ------No, we humans keep learning WHAT the game is ... we *think* that we've got the rules, but we don't even know what the name of the game is!! And how can we be sure our newly revised edition will be any more accurate than the one we threw out? ------We cannot be sure, that's why we keep studying and studying (as you've said). We run our lives based on the info (truth) that we have. When we learned that the earth was not flat, it was human perception that changed ... not the truth itself. P-Di said it a different way, when people learned more, the truth changed. I say it this way: **we** change as we learn more. Seems like a floundering way to live. A dull gray world where nothing is certain and there is no right or wrong...and every man did what seemed right in his own eyes ------It does not seem floundering to me. My faith in God's guidance is certain, I am determined to keep learning (that means asking questiions), and to keep growing (that means changing). Because our God cares for each of us personally, I am certain He will guide you in a way different from me ... perhaps that will seem like every man doing what right in his own eyes. I agree, we as humans keep learning. But God doesn't change. Therefore, there must be something SOLID  to depend on...we just have to find it. And I've always had a hard time swallowing the notion that God is going to tell you different things are right and wrong than He tells me. Right is right. Wrong is wrong. And I think there are fewer gray areas than we would like to believe. So if we study as we should, we ought to be coming to the same conclusions if the same Spirit is guiding our search. That's part of what unity is about. QUOTE(statrei @ Jun 2 2006, 04:40 PM) [snapback]133253[/snapback] What makes you think that our first thougts of Him were on the money? Read the Bible carefully. Everytime the people thought they had the God figured out He surprised them. It borders on blasphemy to ever think you have the God figured out. You don't even have yourself figured out and you live intimately with yourself everyday. The Creator is to be acknowledged but never understood. I don't think I have God figured out. I certainly don't. However, I believe that He is a truthful God and not a liar. I believe I can trust what He says and I believe I have to study what He says in His Word. ..for myself, certainly. I also believe those who founded our church studied and were guided by the Holy Spirit in what they found. I think I can learn from them and should not despise what they discovered. How does that verse go...despise not prophesyings? Naturally I don't need to accept whatever comes down the pike, I have to compare it with Scripture, but should it be so surprising that God is consistent? -------------------- Shelley
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." Mark Twain "It is not my first object in life to make people like me." Elizabeth Prentiss "Níor dhún Dia doras riamh nar oscail Sé ceann eile." |
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Jun 2 2006, 06:42 PM
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#38
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 5,000 + posts Group: Administrator Posts: 11,145 Joined: 21-July 03 From: Northern California Member No.: 47 Gender: f |
So in your quest for something "solid" how do you reconcile your faith as described here in Hebrews 11:1"
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. -------------------- TTFN
Di And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose---Romans 8:28 A great many people believe they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices.-- William James It is better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt.- Mark Twain |
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Jun 2 2006, 06:43 PM
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#39
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1,000 + posts Group: Members Posts: 1,398 Joined: 10-April 06 From: The Hill Country Member No.: 1,679 Gender: f |
Clay wrote...
... you are right the Romulan's ships were awesome.... All right!! Common ground, common ground! 
-------------------- Shelley
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." Mark Twain "It is not my first object in life to make people like me." Elizabeth Prentiss "Níor dhún Dia doras riamh nar oscail Sé ceann eile." |
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Jun 3 2006, 04:16 AM
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#40
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1,000 + posts Group: Charter Member Posts: 2,251 Joined: 20-July 03 From: Prague, the Czech Republic Member No.: 19 |
SEESHELL WROTE:
I agree, we as humans keep learning. But God doesn't change. Therefore, there must be something SOLID to depend on...we just have to find it. ------Yes, we agree here. God does not change, it is **WE** who learn a bit, then a bit more and our perception & understanding changes. We change, not God. And I've always had a hard time swallowing the notion that God is going to tell you different things are right and wrong than He tells me. Right is right. Wrong is wrong. ------Ok, I understand your saying that this is difficult for you.... at least twice I recall the disciples saying to Jesus: "this is a hard saying, who can know it?" Right is right & wrong is wrong!!!! Yep, that's what **they** said when Jesus went through the cornfield. And I think there are fewer gray areas than we would like to believe. So if we study as we should, we ought to be coming to the same conclusions if the same Spirit is guiding our search. That's part of what unity is about. ------Hhhhhmmmm ... we are to be robots, all manufactured to the same specifications. That's what I conclude from your statement. The things that are funny to you may not be so in my opinion based on my life-experience. Therefore God, who cares for each of us personally, will guide your life according to HIS will for your life. Each of us must follow HIS will... even if we have to pluck corn on the Sabbath. -------------------- This is how change happens: someone hurts, and sooner or later decides to do something about it.
--TRAITOR by Matthew Woodring Stover - p.29 |
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Jun 3 2006, 06:01 AM
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#41
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 1,000 + posts Group: Charter Member Posts: 2,100 Joined: 20-July 03 Member No.: 11 |
Re: right is right and wrong is wrong. Has anyone thought about the 7 things the Lord hates? I've always wondered why we don't spend more time on those... they really aren't 'things'
Proverbs 6: The message. Seven Things God Hates 16 Here are six things God hates, and one more that he loathes with a passion: 17 eyes that are arrogant, a tongue that lies, hands that murder the innocent, 18 a heart that hatches evil plots, feet that race down a wicked track, 19 a mouth that lies under oath, a troublemaker in the family. I wonder if the gray areas would darken or lighten up if we used some of them. |
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