Behind The Scenes, By Jorgen VanBraun Options

[sister]

Well, Jane Doe would be useless, eh? How about John Smith, Production Manager, 3ABN - for example? Then I could say to myself, alright then, let's hear what this person has to say.
Nope, having anonymous people constantly posting makes it difficult to even figure out what the truth is.
And I presume the truth is what we want to get at.
I don't see how else to assure you that I am not on a "phishing" expedition, other than to say I'm not.
Phishing is normally used for identity theft, in which case, I guess mine would be the first one stolen.
Strictly speaking, phishing is stealing user names and passwords and I don't see how I could do that on this forum.

Steffan Philip
steffankp@gmail.com

How is this for you:

Sister
various duties at 3ABN
sister.bsda@hotmail.com

This is as much as I am willing to offer, under the circumstances, take it or leave it...

[steffan]

Me too. We ain't as dumb as we must appear to be, aye Pete?

Unless Panama Pete and you have 3ABN related information that speaks to the truth (however that turns out to be), I really don't care about your identity.
But if someone says, I have this to report in 3ABN, how am I supposed to figure out whether that person is speaking the truth, or at least, verifiable truth.
In this situation, let's see what has been verified.

Linda spoke to Dr. AA for very long periods of time (she admits it). But for what reason - both sides differ.
Danny divorced Linda.
Danny remarried.

Then we have "stories" of things that go on inside 3ABN. Most people seem to forget that this was happening even when Linda was at 3ABN. The plane, the horses, the (reported) arrogance, both of them, not just one, indulged.

If you call my posts, phishing, so be it. I know it's not. But you seem to have a real problem with anyone who is not anti-Danny and pro-Linda.

[PeacefulBe]

Unless Panama Pete and you have 3ABN related information that speaks to the truth (however that turns out to be), I really don't care about your identity.
But if someone says, I have this to report in 3ABN, how am I supposed to figure out whether that person is speaking the truth, or at least, verifiable truth.
In this situation, let's see what has been verified.

Linda spoke to Dr. AA for very long periods of time (she admits it). But for what reason - both sides differ.
Danny divorced Linda.
Danny remarried.

Aside from the verified facts listed above, the only additional fact that I am aware of (as a complete outsider) is that Danny's hair is no longer a reddish color but is now a true brunette. What is unknown is if it got that way through the application of Just For Men or some other method.

[beartrap]

Aside from the verified facts listed above, the only additional fact that I am aware of (as a complete outsider) is that Danny's hair is no longer a reddish color but is now a true brunette. What is unknown is if it got that way through the application of Just For Men or some other method.

Shall we again bring up the topic of hair seeds? Perhaps someone could resurrect the previous discussion for PB's amusement. Anyone remember what thread that was on?

[beartrap]

Here, PB. The truth shall set your laghter free!

http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s...mp;#entry133601

[steffan]

How is this for you:

Sister
various duties at 3ABN
sister.bsda@hotmail.com

This is as much as I am willing to offer, under the circumstances, take it or leave it...

I'm curious about why you would want to stay in such a wicked organization if that's the case. Why not just shake the dust off your feet, as it were, and move away from this evil?

An organization filled with child molestors, evil rogues, a man who calls/thinks himself to be God? Surely you would want to run from the place?

Considering the volume of information you have posted, no that's not good enough for me. So I guess I can throw out as bogus anything you post.

Steffan Philip

[PeacefulBe]

Here, PB. The truth shall set your laghter free!

http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s...mp;#entry133601

Thanks for the chuckles!

[beartrap]

I'm curious about why you would want to stay in such a wicked organization if that's the case. Why not just shake the dust off your feet, as it were, and move away from this evil?

An organization filled with child molestors, evil rogues, a man who calls/thinks himself to be God? Surely you would want to run from the place?

Considering the volume of information you have posted, no that's not good enough for me. So I guess I can throw out as bogus anything you post.

Steffan Philip

Uh oh, Sister!

[sister]

I'm curious about why you would want to stay in such a wicked organization if that's the case. Why not just shake the dust off your feet, as it were, and move away from this evil?

An organization filled with child molestors, evil rogues, a man who calls/thinks himself to be God? Surely you would want to run from the place?

Considering the volume of information you have posted, no that's not good enough for me. So I guess I can throw out as bogus anything you post.

Steffan Philip

How do you know if I am currently at 3ABN or not? Another assumption on your part...

So have you changed your tune? Are you now agreeing that the administration of 3ABN is so wicked that employees should all kick the dust off their feet and flee into the wilderness of southern Illinois? As we speak many are attempting to do just that, but with the sacrificial income received by the majority of 3ABN employees, one must first secure another position before moving on or risk the consequences that their children will soon go hungry.

Are you still fishing for the identity of current and former 3ABN employees that are posting on BSDA and will not be satisfied until you hunt us all down? Last I heard Danny hasn't offered a finders fee yet and I haven't seen a poster with "Sister" on the wall in the T'ville post office with a reward listed for my capture "dead or alive".

Your belief or disbelief does not change the truths about 3ABN that have been posted on BSDA. I am only one witness and there are many others that have given their testimonies and are in agreement with mine. Or are you calling everything that everyone has posted, that contradicts your opinion, "bogus"? Time will tell...much sooner than you may imagine.

Sister

Uh oh, Sister!

Bear, a proper southern Illinois belle would never allow her backside to be so indecently exposed in public!

[beartrap]

Bear, a proper southern Illinois belle would never allow her backside to be so indecently exposed in public!

[steffan]

How do you know if I am currently at 3ABN or not? Another assumption on your part...

So have you changed your tune? Are you now agreeing that the administration of 3ABN is so wicked that employees should all kick the dust off their feet and flee into the wilderness of southern Illinois? As we speak many are attempting to do just that, but with the sacrificial income received by the majority of 3ABN employees, one must first secure another position before moving on or risk the consequences that their children will soon go hungry.

Are you still fishing for the identity of current and former 3ABN employees that are posting on BSDA and will not be satisfied until you hunt us all down? Last I heard Danny hasn't offered a finders fee yet and I haven't seen a poster with "Sister" on the wall in the T'ville post office with a reward listed for my capture "dead or alive".

Your belief or disbelief does not change the truths about 3ABN that have been posted on BSDA. I am only one witness and there are many others that have given their testimonies and are in agreement with mine. Or are you calling everything that everyone has posted, that contradicts your opinion, "bogus"? Time will tell...much sooner than you may imagine.

Sister

Quite correct. It was an assumption. If you're not, then you no longer have current information that would be accurate. If you are, then my previous post stands.

My tune remains the same. Truth is what I'm after and not fancifully done word pictures like the ones you have painted. I don't care which way the truth points but verifiable truth it must be. My internal radar goes into alert mode when I hear additional words added on when a plain and simple sentence will do.

Should employees leave 3ABN if it is as wicked as portrayed? Yes. Should they leave before securing another job? You tell me whether I should take money from an evil man (as your portray him) because if I don't, then they will starve. I would not. I have foregone employment (and suffered hard days) by refusing unethical money but that's just me. I trust in the Lord to provide as long as I'm doing the right thing. And exactly where did I say they should flee into the wilderness of southern Illinois? Another example of your adding on words.

Once again, I am not hunting down identities. If you speak the truth, speak it plainly, honestly and in broad daylight instead of speaking from the shadows. As I repeated earlier, it is very hard to place credence when it comes from sources that cannot be verified. And once again, adding that Danny hasn't offered a finder's fee, is another example of your adding on words.

My point is that with all the things being written, it has become almost impossible to figure out what the truth is. You are one example of someone who should have spoken plainly and left it at that. Your embellishments have made all your posts suspect. The same thing I said about you goes for all those others who are in agreement with what you wrote. If they are not verifiable, then they are bogus.

And yes, I am waiting. Waiting for the truth and circumstances to show who is indeed speaking the truth. And hopefully, even sooner than I can imagine. Let's say I imagine September 19. Can it be sooner than that? In case you wonder, that is the "2-3 weeks" written about elsewhere in this forum about Linda being completely vindicated within 2 days and details being released in that timeframe.

Steffan Philip

This post has been edited by steffan: Sep 10 2006, 12:29 AM

[beartrap]

Does anyone here know who "Denny" is, and if it can be verified? How about Clay, Steffan, Calvin, and Princessdi... or anyone else? What about anything they say? How can we truly verify it? Until such time as full verification of everything posted on this site is accomplished, everyone here is declared bogus and so is everything they say. Especially you, PrincessDrRe, you are especially bogus with all of the embellishments you add to your words! Oh, and all those people who agree with you are unverifiably bogus too!

This post has been edited by beartrap: Sep 10 2006, 01:10 AM

[calvin]

Once again, I am not hunting down identities. If you speak the truth, speak it plainly, honestly and in broad daylight instead of speaking from the shadows. As I repeated earlier, it is very hard to place credence when it comes from sources that cannot be verified. And once again, adding that Danny hasn't offered a finder's fee, is another example of your adding on words.

My point is that with all the things being written, it has become almost impossible to figure out what the truth is. You are one example of someone who should have spoken plainly and left it at that. Your embellishments have made all your posts suspect. The same thing I said about you goes for all those others who are in agreement with what you wrote. If they are not verifiable, then they are bogus.

And yes, I am waiting. Waiting for the truth and circumstances to show who is indeed speaking the truth. And hopefully, even sooner than I can imagine. Let's say I imagine September 19. Can it be sooner than that? In case you wonder, that is the "2-3 weeks" written about elsewhere in this forum about Linda being completely vindicated within 2 days and details being released in that timeframe.

Steffan Philip

What you have here is the most comprehensive discussion on the saga of 3abn that you are going to fine anywhere. . I agree, there is a lot to this story to be skeptical about. Let me remind everyone that this is a discussion board, opinions and ideals are always welcome here. All sides are welcome to present their case. To find whatever truth is available here, you are going to have to dig for it and use your God given ability to reason, evaluate, and come to your own conclusions after you have internalized the evidence, however suspect it may be. There is a lot of data here, much of it collaborated by insiders on the scene, some of those insiders have identified themselves and others have not. Determine for yourself how creditable the storytellers are.

[inga]

How does that make him a cult leader? Waco, Jonestown and almost all the cults I read about had very strict control over who goes in and who comes out. The members of the cult were controlled, brain-washed and confined to the compound. How is it possible for 3abn to be called a cult when it seems that people are employed there and get to go home every night?

Dan isn't in the same class as Koresh & Jones -- yet. However, Dan certainly appears to exercise "strict control" over his employees. (Have you read the thread on "new security measures" that indicates installation of AV recording equipment that is set up to recognize key words and phrases?) If you had read the threads available on this forum, you would know that brainwashing does happen. In fact, even Dan's public broadcasts do a certain amount of "brainwashing" through his continually repeated statements that he receives direct "words from the Lord," that any criticism of the administration of 3ABN (i.e. Dan Shelton) is an attack on God, etc. Folks listening to these oft-repeated statements begin to believe them, especially if they watch only 3ABN -- which is the case for a lot of folks. The main difference in Waco was that, at a certain point, folks could not leave the brainwashing sessions.

You speak of 3ABN employees getting to "go home" every night. However, where they get to go, isn't really "home," which is where they came from in order to "serve God" by working for 3ABN at substandard wages, living in substandard housing and requiring government subsidy in order to survive.

You imply that employees have nothing to lose by just resigning and leaving. That demonstrates you have not read the personal testimonies of former employees and what Dan Shelton does to prevent them from being employed elsewhere. Add to the equation that, by the time folks realize that they've been "had," their financial resources are used up, and they have no reserve for food and clothing, let alone moving. Thus they are not physically locked in to a compound with walls, but they are as truly "locked in" by circumstances Dan Shelton controls. For the sake of their sanity they must believe that Dan is truly led by God for as long as they possibly can, as was true for many of David Koresh's victims. (I still find it difficult to believe that he snared so many apparently intelligent, reasonable people. Those at Waco were not all "kooks.")

And you wonder why employees don't come on this board giving their real names and addresses? Considering the underhanded means Dan has used to spy on people, you wonder that they suspect you of being a spy? This is one place they are believed , and that surely must be important to folks who are in such desperate circumstances.

Of course there are certain others working at 3ABN who are well-paid and/or have millions $'s available of personal means.

It is very difficult for me to take information coming from sources like these without identity verification. (Yes, yes, I know, the same insinuation that I am in the employ of 3ABN). However, people who speak out against injustice and evil, it seems, do so knowing that God is their protection and they have nothing to fear.

Like I said, you don't know what you're saying. Even Elder Johann Thorvaldsson, who was not dependent on 3ABN for a salary, since he worked as a European liaison as a volunteer, has paid a heavy price for opposing Dan Shelton and refusing to spread lies about Linda. Even though I've not had the honor of meeting his late wife, Irmgard, I'm convinced through her personal testimony, that she was a sweet Christian lady who loved Linda dearly and was terribly stressed by all the persecution Linda had to endure. Knowing that stress lowers the body's immune system's ability to fight cancer, I have no doubt that Dan's continual harassment of Linda and of Johann and Irmgard contributed to her untimely death.

Yes, Johann has paid a price for his "whistle-blowing."

How is it that 3ABN employees have so much to fear? Loss of job? Name? Income? The Lord will provide and none can harm because God is their shield.

From your posts, I'm guessing you're rather young, and make statements with the brashness and assurance of youth. Even David, the Psalmist, recognized that the "wicked prosper" while the righteous often suffer. While it is true that nothing can befall us that the Lord does not allow, it takes a mature Christian faith to deal with the fall-out. The results for 3ABN employees can be homelessness and starvation, as well as loss of reputation and income -- not just present, but future, since Dan does all in his power to make sure no one else employs them. What makes you think that God will shield 3ABN employees more than He shielded His own Son?

Until you have demonstrated that you are willing to give up all to ensure that wrongs are righted, please do not judge 3ABN employees so harshly.

This post has been edited by inga: Sep 10 2006, 02:05 PM

[inga]

But if someone says, I have this to report in 3ABN, how am I supposed to figure out whether that person is speaking the truth, or at least, verifiable truth.

Some of us happen to know enough about individuals involved that is verifiable that we accept their words as true and can judge other postings by those criteria. Others have used the good brains God gave them to put the pieces of the puzzle together. That's why we "know" more than you do.

Now, just why do you need to "know" all these things?

There is plenty of public information available that is rather problematic. If you had read the information availabe on this board, you would know of this information. Instead, you demand that persons reveal their identity and expose themselves to grave danger. What makes you think you have the right?

Linda spoke to Dr. AA for very long periods of time (she admits it). But for what reason - both sides differ.
Danny divorced Linda.
Danny remarried.

Then we have "stories" of things that go on inside 3ABN. Most people seem to forget that this was happening even when Linda was at 3ABN. The plane, the horses, the (reported) arrogance, both of them, not just one, indulged.

So do you consider long phone conversations with one's child's doctor as grounds for divorce? (If you do, the Bible doesn't, and 3ABN supposedly promotes a conservative Adventist view which takes the Bible literally. The only kind of "spiritual adultery" known in the Bible is for those "married to God" worshiping other gods. Perhaps that's really what Dan means -- that Linda transgressed by not worshiping Dan Shelton as god?)

You forget a few other verifiable facts:

• Linda did not marry again.
• Statements on the 3ABN website implied the worst about Linda, without giving any evidence. (And now you want evidence that their unverified implications are not true??
• Walt Thompson has sent out letters vilifying Linda and implying that Dan is the chosen of God while Linda and her supporters are equated with Lucifer.
• Danny's current wife moved in very close to him very shortly after Linda was kicked out. He started keeping company with her rather quickly, as I understand. Although she came for "employment' reasons, her "employment" record is a bit unusual, to put it charitably. (You can find the details on this board, if 3ABN employees won't tell you over the phone.)
• Publicly available records give rise to grave questions regarding millions of dollars sent to 3ABN for the ministry, millions that are not accounted for. There are other questions regarding financial misdeeds.
• Dr. Abrahamsen gave his own version of events, and his identity, his reputation in his own church and conference, and his reputation and experience as a medical doctor are verifiable. (If you don't accept this, just what kind of "verifiable information" do you expect??)
• If you con't accept Dr. Abrahamsen's testimony because he has been accused by Dan Shelton and thus would have a stake in the affair, what excuse do you have for not accepting Johann Thorvaldsson's testimony? He has absolutely no stake in this whatsover, except that he cannot abide the abuse of innocent victims. His reputation and previous record of service in the Seventh-day Adventist church is verifiable, if you care to go to the effort.
• Dan's statements on 3ABN continue to refer to his "former wife" in a derogatory manner.

What I see happening is that you ask for verification which you are unlikely to believe anyway, since it comes via this board. (There are those on this board who have given a great deal of information about their identities, with at least one having given his true name. If you are too lazy to read the posts here to find out the details, why should anyone here tell you?)

You don't have to know anything more than is widely and publicly available, and you don't even have to know that. However, if you really want to know, there's plenty of solid information on this board, verified by several parties, for you to make up your own mind.

Yes, there are emotional statements, exaggerated statements and speculation, but you shouldn't have too hard a time to sort things out if you use the brains God gave you.

This continual asking for identities and verification simply demonstrates to the users of this board that you don't care enough to do your own reading, and you just might be a Dan Shelton plant, or even an alter identity for him. (Hey, don't blame people too much for being paranoid when they have already either experienced harassment themselves or watched the harassment of others.) )