Behind The Scenes, By Jorgen VanBraun Options

[Freedom]

Some good thoughts, Inga. Even under the most ideal circumstances, changing jobs and moving brings up a number of challenges.
1. Locating a job where a person can be proficient. If a person is working full time, it is often difficult to get away for an interview. If a person is in a specialized field, he may have to move hundreds of miles to find any place where he can work in his field.
2. A move is traumatic on the family. Children have been with their friends for most of their lives. To set them in a church and a new school, regardless of how nice they are, is not easy.
3. Moving is expensive, and a person always has to buy some new things for a new place. My mother said that three moves was equal to one fire.

I have a burden for the workers who are faithfully doing their work, and are scarcely aware what is happening in the upper eschalons of an organization. They are working as unto the Lord. God bless each one of them.

Also, is the fact the if an employee tries to find work elsewhere, or does -- some of the management calls/writes to the new employer or potential employer and "bad mouths" etc., the employee.

So for an employee to leave is even more difficult!

Freedom

[fallible humanbe...]

You state you "could", but I have actually talked to 13 of the people you mention, 8 of them about this issue. None of them have been able to convince me that 3ABN is giving a true picture of what happened, because they have not been able to show any valid evidense against what Irmgarad and I experienced, saw and heard. They have merely confirmed my conviction that the whole affair was staged for a certain purpose.

Okay, three responses to my posting, all focused on one paragraph and all missed the point completely.

Just to make it as concise as possible - the point of the pargraph was that it wouldn't matter to any one of you that an individual at 3ABN made the comments to me you would dismiss it out of hand because they are employed by 3ABN (which makes me wonder why you believe HOTY, after all he works there too.) In the process to deify Linda and vilify Danny I fear there is no room for the unmitigated truth. There is no willingness to listen to anyone associated with 3ABN.

Not sure if I read your sentence correctly PP, but the board members are not paid.

BTW, can any of you answer the question I asked:

Who has starved, lived in a car or under a bridge, who has lost reputation and how, and whose income has been eliminated as a result of working at 3ABN and being let go, fired, or left of their own volition because they have disagreed with some aspect of how 3ABN is run? (terribly constructed sentence sorry)

- fhb

[Chez]

Once again, I am not hunting down identities.

Steffan Philip

Yes, you are hunting down identities. [Tell the truth and shame the Devil.] The truth will come forth with or without these people. These folk have experienced and/or witnessed injustices or wrongs and they are speaking against it. There were people in the Branch Davidian group who experienced and witnessed wrongful acts. Many of them said nothing and some of them are not alive. Then there is the other group who have gone or will go to their graves knowing that they could have saved some people, only if they would have revealed the wrongful acts that were occurring.

So leave and get a job where you don't have to have substandard housing and government subsidies. If you serve the Lord with all your heart, difficulties on earth are pointless. And as I pointed out before, I have personally experienced this.

Steffan Philip

It is easy to tell people to leave a place and get a job. It is easier said than done. Why don't you offer these people a job (with a decent salary) and provide housing and other amenities for them? When I visited that community (before the break up), my husband and I had this "eery" feeling about the community. Leaving isn't always that easy.

This post has been edited by Chez: Sep 11 2006, 08:47 AM

[Chez]

There is another reason why some may be staying at 3ABN though they are convinced that there is a problem there. There may be divided families where one spouse is convinced that Danny is God's messenger and the other spouse is convinced that a cultlike situation exists among the followers of DS. As in any cult there is concern about families being broken up if one leaves the cult and the other stays. One may not be able to convince the other that it is not his or her duty to stay loyal to the leader and of the danger of remaining there. That one may stay out of concern for the deceived one, hoping to be able to protect him or her. Or they may be concerned about their children or parents who are in the cult.

Very Good Point!

[summertime]

You state you "could", but I have actually talked to 13 of the people you mention, 8 of them about this issue. None of them have been able to convince me that 3ABN is giving a true picture of what happened, because they have not been able to show any valid evidense against what Irmgarad and I experienced, saw and heard. They have merely confirmed my conviction that the whole affair was staged for a certain purpose.

Johann, I have appreciated your revealing your true indentity----I wonder how many of us really believe that fhb has truly revealed his real name as Fallible Human Being---the name sounds a little fictitious to me.

[summertime]

It seems though that he is taking his time to actually go on this so-called revival and reformation vacation.

Accordng to Pastor Carter's announcement, reformation and revival has already happened---in the last week, I think.

[sister]

Okay, three responses to my posting, all focused on one paragraph and all missed the point completely.

Just to make it as concise as possible - the point of the pargraph was that it wouldn't matter to any one of you that an individual at 3ABN made the comments to me you would dismiss it out of hand because they are employed by 3ABN (which makes me wonder why you believe HOTY, after all he works there too.) In the process to deify Linda and vilify Danny I fear there is no room for the unmitigated truth. There is no willingness to listen to anyone associated with 3ABN.

- fhb

Fallible,

If your point is only to give a hypothetical situation (that it wouldn’t matter to any one of us that an individual at 3ABN made certain comments to you, but that we would dismiss it out of hand because they are employed by 3ABN) and then by your personal observation dismiss the foundation of you hypotheses (stating that the testimony of a 3ABN employee, HOTY, is judged by you as believable by the readership of this forum), it is logically impossible to arrive at the conclusion there is no willingness to listen to anyone associated with 3ABN. In fact, you have disproved your own hypothese.

For anyone who has read the Unauthorized History of 3ABN, it is obvious that an association has existed between myself and 3ABN. In addition to myself an association has existed between Beartrap and 3ABN, between Johann and 3ABN, between PaperTigers and 3ABN, between HOTY and 3ABN, just to mention a few of the members of BSDA who are or were employed by Danny Shelton.

I have made no attempt to deify Linda. I do see her as a victim, but only one of many victims. The only suggested deification of any individual at 3ABN has been of Danny Shelton. Nor have I attempted to vilify Danny. The only vilification of Danny has been through his own actions being revealed publicly, not though the revelation, but through the reaction his behavior evokes in the reader. There is always a place for unmitigated truth, but where the public and the personal persona differ so broadly, the experience can be extremely shocking for many individuals.

Sister

[beartrap]

"A wretched soul, bruised with adversity,
We bid be quiet when we hear it cry;
But were we burdened with like weight of pain,
As much or more we should ourselves complain."
William Shakespear

[PeacefulBe]

Okay, three responses to my posting, all focused on one paragraph and all missed the point completely.

- fhb

FHB, there were 4 responses before this. Check out mine - post #39 I believe.

[fallible humanbe...]

For anyone who has read the Unauthorized History of 3ABN, it is obvious that an association has existed between myself and 3ABN. In addition to myself an association has existed between Beartrap and 3ABN, between Johann and 3ABN, between PaperTigers and 3ABN, between HOTY and 3ABN, just to mention a few of the members of BSDA who are or were employed by Danny Shelton.

Again, you miss the context. The individuals I mention are still currently associated or working with 3ABN - actively associated. It is my understanding that beartrap, Johann, PaperTigers, and yourself are no longer there, not employed or associated with the day-to-day operations or programming. My point still stands. If I spoke with any of the people I listed and received a response that was contrarian to you own, even if it were substantiated, because of your entrenched position you would dismiss it out of hand.

The sole individual, as far as I can ascertain, who still is there and posting here is HOTY. Now, why should he be the only one from 3ABN to be trusted to "tell the truth?" It would seem to the casual observer that the answer to the question is, because he agrees with you. To disagree means to automatically be perceived as the enemy and thus a lying scoundral.

I am curious too as to the way in which the Unauthorized History equates an obvious association between you and 3ABN. As I read it, you have acted as the mouthpiece for other individuals/entities that have provided you with material to present your version of things. Do you state somewhere in there that you were/are indeed a part of the 3ABN experience?

-fhb

FHB, there were 4 responses before this. Check out mine - post #39 I believe.

I stand corrected.

[sister]

Do you state somewhere in there that you were/are indeed a part of the 3ABN experience?

-fhb

Yes. In fact, the only driver's licence I posess was issued in Benton, Illinois.

[sister]

To disagree means to automatically be perceived as the enemy and thus a lying scoundral.
-fhb

Those are your words, not mine. I have neither accused you of being an enemy or a lying scoundrel. Perhaps, misinformed would be a kinder description. I and others have spoken from experience as employees of Danny Shelton, my understanding is that your knowledge is received through watching 3ABN broadcasts, that you have not personal knowledge or association with 3ABN or Danny Shelton. Based upon those facts I could logically extrapolate that your posts are at best pure speculation or merely an uneducated opinion.

[Panama_Pete]

Again, you miss the context. The individuals I mention are still currently associated or working with 3ABN - actively associated. It is my understanding that beartrap, Johann, PaperTigers, and yourself are no longer there, not employed or associated with the day-to-day operations or programming. My point still stands. If I spoke with any of the people I listed and received a response that was contrarian to you own, even if it were substantiated, because of your entrenched position you would dismiss it out of hand.

Many of these events occurred in 2004 and earlier. Some "currently associated" employees, such as Shelley Quinn, were not even at 3ABN when some of these things transpired. I place no premium simply on the fact that a person is currently employed there -- or not.

Secondly, there is no legitimate evidence. Therefore, to say "if it were substantiated" calls for a conclusion beyond the evidence 3ABN possesses. Why even go there?

Thirdly, nobody would be wasting their time here "entrenched" if 3ABN had a case.

[fallible humanbe...]

To disagree means to automatically be perceived as the enemy and thus a lying scoundral.
-fhb

You are correct, they are my words. They are based on the responses often found here and from personal experience here. The accusation of being a plant, or being Hal, or being Danny, or being on the 3ABN payroll in addition to the tone of many posts will lead to the perception that you ("you" here not specifically refering to you as a person, but to those aligned on your side of the issue) do consider that individual an "enemy." The assertion that truth does not eminate from 3ABN automatically transfers to anyone who aligns themselves on that side of the issue - thus my statement.

Even your statement that I am misinformed indicates that because I seem to have a contrarian view to yours that I am wrong.

To date all of the above accusations have fallen my way (being called Danny, Hal, a plant, etc). Simply because I take a skeptical and contrarian view to the majority here. If one were to flip that coin, one might postulate that you are in deed Linda since you have such an overwhelming intimate knowledge of 3ABN and all of the people who work there. I don't think you are - but one could make a strong case for that theory.

. . . my understanding is that your knowledge is received through watching 3ABN broadcasts, that you have not personal knowledge or association with 3ABN or Danny Shelton . . .

What do you base this understanding on? I have spent more time reading the material here and other sister sites, as well as books to gain a picture of 3ABN. In fact I have never owned a dish that pulls the channel in and the cable system in my current place of residence does not carry it. I have seen programming from there on occassion over the years and attended at some of the churches they have broadcast from. One need not have a direct association with 3ABN or Danny in order to learn about them. I have talked to a number of people associated with the ministry over the years. So my understanding comes from a variety of sources - yours included.

- fhb

Secondly, there is no legitimate evidence.

Not sure you can make this claim since you don't know what evidence they have. You have simply said, because they haven't played their hand they must not have one. That doesn't make your claim true.

Do date you can not prove they don't have it.

- fhb

This post has been edited by fallible humanbeing: Sep 11 2006, 03:08 PM

[Johann]

Do date you can not prove they don't have it.

- fhb

Quite a statement! Since I was involved in the initial happening in our own kitchen at 3ABN - and I even dare use my real name - I have seen plenty of the evidence they have crumble and new strange evidence manufactured with the help of expensive Private Investigators following me have made. You can always get what you pay for, but is it true? Not if you were there and know it isn't. You can make lotsof tricks with a spy camera, I have experienced. You can eliminate unwanted people in the picture and try to prove they are not there becauase they are not seen on the picture. Such is some of the strongest evidence Mollie Steenson and her gang have produced and told people they have.

I have heard the strongest evidence from members of the board, and I know from personal experience they are mere fabrication and falsehood.

In a few days your will all see plenty of evidence that will rock the boat. Just stay tuned. . . The Linda case will then be a mere drop in the bucket. It might send some people screaming for mercy!