The 3abn Story, Fact vs. Fiction Options

[Voktar of Zargon]

Welcome Voktar! Nice post. Interesting name you have! I like it!
Danny knows when to say what and who to say it to, and for who's behalf (his). He says lots of things (which maybe you have noticed) as he seeks to talk as much as possible and be sure to give an appearance of a saint who has been mistreated.
Anyway, I missed this show (I miss most of them) but I'm sure others know about this one and will comment. Your "humble hearsay opinion of a godly innocent man" is a good one, unfortunately not of Danny's list of "things I should do that are right". He feels he can afford to try to put out the fires as they come along, only now, there is a forest fire and he can't stop it now.

Thank you for the nice welcome. If I ever get adjusted to this forumsphere and it's language I may use a more earthly name. Thanks also for the meaningful response to my first post.

[Voktar of Zargon]

I am not sure if it was the same one that you saw but, I recall him saying he offered to leave with Linda but the board told him that he didn't need to leave. I believe he should have left if only for a short time to try to get their marriage together. If what he says is true that he loved her and wanted it to work out....That should have been his priority.....

This was not the show I saw. He really was doing a swan song. I thought I wasn't going to see him on the air anymore.

[Daryl Fawcett]

Maybe this, from a few weeks to a few months leave, is another type of swan song?

This post has been edited by Daryl Fawcett: Aug 29 2006, 06:42 AM

[Fran]

Back on topic. These are the facts as I see them.

Linda and Danny got divorced. Linda was dismissed from 3ABN. Danny remarried. Everything else is hearsay.

Did you read the post citing part of the 3ABN Property Lawsuit audit and the information from IRS 990 saying there were accountability issues with their Trust funds?

http://www.revenue.state.il.us/legalinform...s/pt/pt04-1.pdf This is a 46 page document. Too large to post. Take note of page 17. Look at the footnotes marked 14 & 15.

Please take special note of "Split Interest Agreements (IL vs. 3ABN Property Tax Lawsuit)

14 The financial report for 2000 contains additional concerns found by the independent auditors.
15 Applicant’s financial reports raise additional questions and concerns. For example, the unrecorded contribution revenue related to charitable gift annuity agreements were not recorded in conformance with generally accepted accounting principles. The “related party transactions” were acknowledged without identifying the parties. The notes refer to “split interest agreements,” where applicant received the assets funding the trusts and applicant is to pay certain amounts for specified periods of time to the donors. There is nothing in the record to identify the donors or the assets. None of the trust agreements were supplied. (Applicant’s Ex. Nos. 14, 15) (IL vs. 3ABN Property Tax Lawsuit)

In other words, they would not provide information about the agreements or the identity of the parties involved to the auditors. They were there, but not on the books! No wonder they would not identify who they were. Not only that, but the donors assets were not even listed. Are you beginning to see the big picture? (2000, 2001, 2002 IRS Form 990) (IL vs. 3ABN Property Tax Lawsuit)

In 2001, there were $ 2.4 Million found in Split Interest Agreements not posted. In 2002, $ 1.7 Million in Split Interest Agreements not posted. These are the amounts they found, but there is more they could not find. The assets were not found. Remember the interpretation of Split Interest Agreements involve TRUST FUND discrepancies. I wonder what was not found? (2000, 2001, 2002 IRS Form 990) (IL vs. 3ABN Property Tax Lawsuit)

The auditors also found $14,000 + in funds posted to 3ABN income, but the funds were actually for other ministries. Yeah, just who were the ministry/ministries that did not get their money. I can only wonder how much was not found. (2000, 2001, 2002 IRS Form 990) (IL vs. 3ABN Property Tax Lawsuit)

In 2001, Kenny Shelton and his wife were still listed as part of 3ABN even though he left many years before 2001. They would not provide many items that were requested for the audit. There was no income reported for the rent/leases by people and their businesses such as Subway. There were discrepancies in their asset accountability, like, they were missing. They were declared a business and NOT a non-profit. (2000, 2001, 2002 IRS Form 990) (IL vs. 3ABN Property Tax Lawsuit)

I made a $43 purchase from the 3ABN Gift Shop on eBay. I received my goods. Then I received a TAX DEDUCTABLE RECEIPT showing I had DONATED $43 to 3ABN and that I had NOT RECEIVED ANY GOODS OR SERVICES. Nice huh?

Did you read that 3ABN, a corporation, operating for 20 years, did not follow Generally Accepted Accounting Principals (GAAP). Do you know what that means? (IL vs. 3ABN Property Tax Lawsuit)

These and much more are cited in that Lawsuit. The lawsuit is an official court document and the IRS Form 990's are official IRS documents. They are public documents that can be obtained by anyone.

This has nothing to do at all with the divorce, Linda getting fired and Danny marrying Brandy!

There are concrete facts in just those documents, and contain many, many more facts than those you mentioned. (IL vs. 3ABN Property Tax Lawsuit) (2000, 2001, 2002 IRS Form 990)

These documents along with the allegations of molestation are what this is about. The things you mentioned are done deals. These are not. This, of course is just my opinion.

[no_cults]

Speaking of good people, where is Melissa Summers? I haven't seen her on 3ABN for a while.

Comeon Calvin.... are those all the facts that you see?

Wasn't Linda "accused" of wrongdoing? Spiritual Adultery and the rest?
Didn't Linda deny this?
Didn't the Dr. A. A. also deny this?
Didn't several people comeforth with "fisthand" knowledge of what was happeing at 3ABN?
Didn't several letters spew forth from 3ABN to current supporters? (myself included)

If sure looks to me that things aren't going real well. I doubt Walt T. would be
sending out explanation letters if all was honky-dorry. They can claim all
is well, but I doubt that is the truth.

Anyone kept a list of how many "ex" emplyees of 3abn the last couple years?

Even if this WAS my first rodeo (which it isn't), I believe I could tell the difference
from the BS and the Bull riders, and I don't need a private investigator to verify.
Sure, there's lots of missing pieces, but the overwhelming body of evidence
makes it clear that there is a definite problem. Evidentally, from what I am
hearing (an surmising) people are voting with their pocketbooks.

[sonshineonme]

Comeon Calvin.... are those all the facts that you see?

Wasn't Linda "accused" of wrongdoing? Spiritual Adultery and the rest?
Didn't Linda deny this?
Didn't the Dr. A. A. also deny this?
Didn't several people comeforth with "fisthand" knowledge of what was happeing at 3ABN?
Didn't several letters spew forth from 3ABN to current supporters? (myself included)

If sure looks to me that things aren't going real well. I doubt Walt T. would be
sending out explanation letters if all was honky-dorry. They can claim all
is well, but I doubt that is the truth.

Anyone kept a list of how many "ex" emplyees of 3abn the last couple years?

Even if this WAS my first rodeo (which it isn't), I believe I could tell the difference
from the BS and the Bull riders, and I don't need a private investigator to verify.
Sure, there's lots of missing pieces, but the overwhelming body of evidence
makes it clear that there is a definite problem. Evidentally, from what I am
hearing (an surmising) people are voting with their pocketbooks.

Some are even voting with their conscience.

[no_cults]

Some are even voting with their conscience.

I believe that a good steward SHOULD vote with their pocketbook.

[SandyColorado]

Maybe.

I was at a seminar this weekend put on by a couple of on-air people from 3ABN. They used to be seen very regularly - but hardly are seen anymore.

I asked one of these people their opinion on what is going on at 3ABN and was told "When all of this happened, no matter who was at fault, they both should have been let go until they got things worked out."

I was SO tempted to ask if I could add their name to this quote - but didn't. so I will just mention it without identifying anybody.

[sonshineonme]

I believe that a good steward SHOULD vote with their pocketbook.

I agree with that too. I was saying my comment with regard to those who buy and sell for power over something. Or play the political "my money" game.
We should all vote with our pocketbooks which should also be connected to our conscience.

[husbandoftheyear]

"He that is of the opinion money will do everything may well be suspected of doing everything for money." Benjamin Franklin

[Fran]

Did you read the post citing part of the 3ABN Property Lawsuit audit and the information from IRS 990 saying there were accountability issues with their Trust funds?

http://www.revenue.state.il.us/legalinform...s/pt/pt04-1.pdf This is a 46 page document. Too large to post. Take note of page 17. Look at the footnotes marked 14 & 15.

Please take special note of "Split Interest Agreements (IL vs. 3ABN Property Tax Lawsuit)
In other words, they would not provide information about the agreements or the identity of the parties involved to the auditors. They were there, but not on the books! No wonder they would not identify who they were. Not only that, but the donors assets were not even listed. Are you beginning to see the big picture? (2000, 2001, 2002 IRS Form 990) (IL vs. 3ABN Property Tax Lawsuit)

In 2001, there were $ 2.4 Million found in Split Interest Agreements not posted. In 2002, $ 1.7 Million in Split Interest Agreements not posted. These are the amounts they found, but there is more they could not find. The assets were not found. Remember the interpretation of Split Interest Agreements involve TRUST FUND discrepancies. I wonder what was not found? (2000, 2001, 2002 IRS Form 990) (IL vs. 3ABN Property Tax Lawsuit)

The auditors also found $14,000 + in funds posted to 3ABN income, but the funds were actually for other ministries. Yeah, just who were the ministry/ministries that did not get their money. I can only wonder how much was not found. (2000, 2001, 2002 IRS Form 990) (IL vs. 3ABN Property Tax Lawsuit)

In 2001, Kenny Shelton and his wife were still listed as part of 3ABN even though he left many years before 2001. They would not provide many items that were requested for the audit. There was no income reported for the rent/leases by people and their businesses such as Subway. There were discrepancies in their asset accountability, like, they were missing. They were declared a business and NOT a non-profit. (2000, 2001, 2002 IRS Form 990) (IL vs. 3ABN Property Tax Lawsuit)

I made a $43 purchase from the 3ABN Gift Shop on eBay. I received my goods. Then I received a TAX DEDUCTABLE RECEIPT showing I had DONATED $43 to 3ABN and that I had NOT RECEIVED ANY GOODS OR SERVICES. Nice huh?

Did you read that 3ABN, a corporation, operating for 20 years, did not follow Generally Accepted Accounting Principals (GAAP). Do you know what that means? (IL vs. 3ABN Property Tax Lawsuit)

These and much more are cited in that Lawsuit. The lawsuit is an official court document and the IRS Form 990's are official IRS documents. They are public documents that can be obtained by anyone.

This has nothing to do at all with the divorce, Linda getting fired and Danny marrying Brandy!

There are concrete facts in just those documents, and contain many, many more facts than those you mentioned. (IL vs. 3ABN Property Tax Lawsuit) (2000, 2001, 2002 IRS Form 990)

These documents along with the allegations of molestation are what this is about. The things you mentioned are done deals. These are not. This, of course is just my opinion.

Just bringing this forward again for more to read the IL vs. 3ABN Property Tax Lawsuit. It is, hands down, the best documentation available to the public about what is really happening at 3ABN.

Please read it.

Follow the money!

I have also noticed the other 3 Google links have been removed. Two were to Club Adventist and one to BSDA.

I also noticed that Club Adventist no longer has a 3ABN Topics thread. All content is gone from view, or at least it has been for me.

This post has been edited by Fran: Sep 4 2006, 01:46 AM

[Clay]

the tangent thread about what is Typical Adventist, including comments made by V of Z have been moved to The Cafe..... the thread title of course is "Typical Adventist."

[Fran]

http://news.adventist.org/data/2006/08/115...7/index.html.en

I wonder what has caused this increase in Mission Offerings during the first 1/2 of 2006. I am praying it is in response to people hearing the difference between fact or fiction. I am praising God.

[inga]

http://news.adventist.org/data/2006/08/115...7/index.html.en

I wonder what has caused this increase in Mission Offerings during the first 1/2 of 2006. I am praying it is in response to people hearing the difference between fact or fiction. I am praising God.

Thanks for the URL, Fran.

One thing that I think will serve to bring up offerings and may already have done so is a mission DVD put out by the GC. It is more interesting and varied than the Mission Spotlight, which became so utterly predictable after a few years. This quarter's DVD has 3 Feature of 7 - 11 min or so, 3 Mini Features of 4 - 5.5 min, 9 Short Stories of 2 - 3 min. each. The DVD is sent gratis to all churches.

We got our first DVD last quarter, and it was good. This quarter's DVD is evne better, as far as I'm concerned. If you haven't seen some interesting on-location mission segments in your church, find out why they aren't showing any segments from the mission DVD.

Also see http://www.AdventistMission.org