Prejudice in the Adventist Church Options

[Clay]

Perhaps you forget that the believers in the dark ages (not having access to the locked away Bible) worshipped more often than not in ignorance. They worshipped in superstition, they worshipped idols, they lived in spiritual bondage and slavery to blasphemous overlords whose power over them was finally broken through the enlightenment that came to them from reading the Holy Scriptures in their own tongue. The Bible you "put in its proper place" was bought by Protestant blood. Did they die in vain?

Is it possible that you were hit over the head in your formative years by one too many Biblical hypocrites?

ummmmm people still worshipping in ignorance.... and in superstition, and are in spiritual bondage.... in our church in this day and age.....

Let me ask this, if the bible is the transforming power that some of you believe it to be, why with all the bible studying adventists that go to church every sabbath, do we remain segregated by color in North America? It seems to me if the bible is what you say it is, that it would have impacted that simple issue..... Seems like if the bible is transforming we would not be segregating ourselves by color and culture.....

As for my formative years I was taught by loving grandparents who conveyed to me that God would always take care of me and that I could talk to him anytime I wanted..... was the bible endorsed? As most adventist homes we learn mass quantities of scripture, memorized it, recited it etc..... but the emphasis was on communication and relationship....

This post has been edited by Clay: Sep 2 2006, 12:10 AM

[Observer]

You said: "Let me ask this, if the bible is the transforming power that some of you believe it to be, why with all the bible studying adventists that go to church every sabbath, do we remain segregated by color in North America? It seems to me if the bible is what you say it is, that it would have impacted that simple issue..... Seems like if the bible is transforming we would not be segregating ourselves by color and culture..... "

Separation by culture: I consider this to be quite different from separation by ethnic group, and separation by color. People of differing color, and ethnic groups may share that same culture. As culture simply is a reflection of differing worship styles, why should not people congregate with others who share the same worship style.

I am serious, would like for someone to respond so I can understand.

Separation by color and/or ethnic group: Those who attend and run those Regional Conferences in the NAD disagree on what should be done. Some wish to keep them. Others wish to merge then with the other Conferences. In my thinking, until that community comes into agreement, any attempt to unite them would be seen as another ethnic group forcing its will upon the group that has a segregated existence. That would be a recipe for disaster. Would it not?

Again, please respond to the above.

[Clay]

You said: "Let me ask this, if the bible is the transforming power that some of you believe it to be, why with all the bible studying adventists that go to church every sabbath, do we remain segregated by color in North America? It seems to me if the bible is what you say it is, that it would have impacted that simple issue..... Seems like if the bible is transforming we would not be segregating ourselves by color and culture..... "

Separation by culture: I consider this to be quite different from separation by ethnic group, and separation by color. People of differing color, and ethnic groups may share that same culture. As culture simply is a reflection of differing worship styles, why should not people congregate with others who share the same worship style.

I am serious, would like for someone to respond so I can understand.

Separation by color and/or ethnic group: Those who attend and run those Regional Conferences in the NAD disagree on what should be done. Some wish to keep them. Others wish to merge then with the other Conferences. In my thinking, until that community comes into agreement, any attempt to unite them would be seen as another ethnic group forcing its will upon the group that has a segregated existence. That would be a recipe for disaster. Would it not?

Again, please respond to the above.

Observer the situation as you have articulated it is a mess... and you are correct.... my question remains... the people of whom we speak endorse the bible as the word of God, encourage dilligent study of it, claim to live by the tenets found therein, YET remain divided by color.... this is not a division that the bible teaches.... so again the question remains, if the bible is paramount in the believer's experience as some here have told me in no uncertain terms that it is, why does this separation remain? Let's go one step further, if the bible is all that why does white flight continue to exist in our adventist churches, or the membership in regional conferences?

This post has been edited by Clay: Sep 2 2006, 06:39 AM

[Jvat]

Clay, you make some thought provoking, telling points. So, in order for the Bible to do us the most good, we must have a committed relationship with God so that HIS Spirit will guide us into all truth, while studying the Bible. But the desire to do God's will and to know God must be paramount for God to live out HIS life in our life and then Bible study will bring out the best fruit in us.

Am I reading you right at all, Clay?

[Clay]

Clay, you make some thought provoking, telling points. So, in order for the Bible to do us the most good, we must have a committed relationship with God so that HIS Spirit will guide us into all truth, while studying the Bible. But the desire to do God's will and to know God must be paramount for God to live out HIS life in our life and then Bible study will bring out the best fruit in us.

Am I reading you right at all, Clay?

I can agree with that Jvat....

[Reflection]

Let's go one step further, if the bible is all that why does white flight continue to exist in our adventist churches, or the membership in regional conferences?

Hi Clay. I'm new here. Brought to you by the Norwegian doctor's mass mailed letters (which came as a relief to me, confirming my suspicions). Anyway, I'm not familiar with the term "white flight." Can you explain it to me? Thank you.

[Clay]

Hi Clay. I'm new here. Brought to you by the Norwegian doctor's mass mailed letters (which came as a relief to me, confirming my suspicions). Anyway, I'm not familiar with the term "white flight." Can you explain it to me? Thank you.

here in the United States sometimes what happens is when black members begin attending predominantly white churches when it reaches the point that there are too many black members, the white members of that church begin to leave and find other places to worship... eventually all the white members disappear leaving just the black members in that church...

[Panama_Pete]

Hi Clay. I'm new here. Brought to you by the Norwegian doctor's mass mailed letters (which came as a relief to me, confirming my suspicions). Anyway, I'm not familiar with the term "white flight." Can you explain it to me? Thank you.

There are three components (all of this is illegal) of "white flight."

1. Blockbusting. This typically occurs when a real estate agent says, "Those 'other' people are moving into the neighborhood, but I can list your house for sale and move you to a 'nice' neighborhood." This is usually in the suburbs. Often scare tactics are used. By using this technique, residents of an entire city block can be frightened into listing their homes for sale, and moving to the suburbs. The real estate agent "busts" the block, in other words, for a big profit.

2. Redlining - The local bank does not "advertise" for mortgages in the some neighborhoods and finds "reasons" not to loan money in those areas. The word "redlining" comes from the concept of taking a map of the city and drawing a "red" line around neighborhoods where loan officers are not to make real estate loans.

Other forms of redlining can also occur, such as if job vacancies are only advertised in Country Club Journal, if no minorities or women, etc., are members of the country club and not subscribers to that in-house journal. Because certain neighborhoods receive no notices of job vacancies in their local paper, employment opportunities in affected neighborhoods become more limited, causing those neighborhoods to deteriorate.

3. Steering -- The neighborhood realtor isn't going to show you homes in certain "bad" neighborhoods. The realtor grabs the steering wheel and "steers" you to what they think are the all-white neighborhoods.

All of these things can depress market values and the quality of life in the affected neighborhoods and it is all illegal. These practices have the effect of relocating white people and jobs to the suburbs out of fear, hence the words "white flight."

Since churches are part of the neighborhood, what happens to the housing stock in the neighborhood will influence the composition of the church membership. What happens in the church usually reflects what has already been going on in the neighborhood for awhile.


Pete

This post has been edited by Panama_Pete: Sep 3 2006, 12:07 AM

[Reflection]

Thanks Clay and Panama Pete.

This post has been edited by Reflection: Sep 3 2006, 06:23 AM

[Voktar of Zargon]

I know a white pastor who took a call to a district in a southern state. He was informed by the conference leadership that they did not expect him to bring black folk into the church based on 'demographic' concerns. He opened an evening B-ball outreach event and started to bring black folk into the church anyway. The Conference President gave him a few months to find another call. He took his problem to black leadership at the GC but they didn't do a thing. A northern conference gave him a call and said we understand.

What do you call this?

[Panama_Pete]

I know a white pastor who took a call to a district in a southern state. He was informed by the conference leadership that they did not expect him to bring black folk into the church based on 'demographic' concerns. He opened an evening B-ball outreach event and started to bring black folk into the church anyway. The Conference President gave him a few months to find another call. He took his problem to black leadership at the GC but they didn't do a thing. A northern conference gave him a call and said we understand.

What do you call this?

Our commendation should be for the good pastor who started the B-ball outreach.

And speaking of Dreams and Visions:

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Mormon), forbade Black men from holding the priesthood until 1978, though church leaders emphasize the fact that Blacks have always been able to receive baptism. On June 9, 1978, a new revelation was announced, permitting all "worthy" males to receive the Priesthood.

There are Adventists, of course, who haven't received the "new revelation" that the Mormons received in '78. Since our Adventist prophet died in 1915, maybe we should borrow the Mormon prophets who have those new revelations. Sort of a lend-lease program for needy Adventist conference presidents. Call it Rent-A-Prophet.

[Clay]

I know a white pastor who took a call to a district in a southern state. He was informed by the conference leadership that they did not expect him to bring black folk into the church based on 'demographic' concerns. He opened an evening B-ball outreach event and started to bring black folk into the church anyway. The Conference President gave him a few months to find another call. He took his problem to black leadership at the GC but they didn't do a thing. A northern conference gave him a call and said we understand.

What do you call this?

foolishness.... by both white and black leadership....

[Observer]

I know a white pastor who took a call to a district in a southern state. He was informed by the conference leadership that they did not expect him to bring black folk into the church based on 'demographic' concerns. He opened an evening B-ball outreach event and started to bring black folk into the church anyway. The Conference President gave him a few months to find another call. He took his problem to black leadership at the GC but they didn't do a thing. A northern conference gave him a call and said we understand.

I personally know of such a situation, but that one happened over 30 years ago. And, the Conference President was removed from office--for a whole basket of things. Now, as I recall, he has died.

I would hope that such would not happen in the present day. But, I am not 100% certain.

[Voktar of Zargon]

I personally know of such a situation, but that one happened over 30 years ago. And, the Conference President was removed from office--for a whole basket of things. Now, as I recall, he has died.

I would hope that such would not happen in the present day. But, I am not 100% certain.

Sorry,
The story is a little dated. Approximately 7 years old.

[Clay]

I personally know of such a situation, but that one happened over 30 years ago. And, the Conference President was removed from office--for a whole basket of things. Now, as I recall, he has died.

I would hope that such would not happen in the present day. But, I am not 100% certain.

I know of a situation that is currently happening... in an adventist church.... predominantly white, more members of color are attending and the white members are quietly leaving and meeting somewhere else.... yes that's right, here in 2006... it is occurring....