Prejudice in the Adventist Church Options

[Voktar of Zargon]

Suggested new thread:

Hot Topic - "Old Thread/New Thread - Prejudice in the Adventist Church"

Sample questions:

1. If the regional conferences don't want to incorporate into the local conferences, and the local conferences don't want to incorporate into the regional conferences, why don't they both incorporate into the unions and send all the local and regional administrators into the field.

2. Are Adventists more prejudiced in the North or the South?

3. Why do many Carribean Adventists prefer to worship in local conferences?

4. Why does my African Adventist friend who grew up in Soweto and belonged to the "One White Man One Bullet" gang think that African American Adventists have a chip on their shoulder?

5. If The South African coferences could unite why can't the American?


Old Joke: "Lord, who are those people on the far side of heaven worshipping by themselves?
Answer: SHHHH!!! Those are the (fill in the blank) who never heard that My house is a
house of prayer for all people."

[Voktar of Zargon]

Let me ask this, if the bible is the transforming power that some of you believe it to be, why with all the bible studying adventists that go to church every sabbath, do we remain segregated by color in North America? It seems to me if the bible is what you say it is, that it would have impacted that simple issue..... Seems like if the bible is transforming we would not be segregating ourselves by color and culture.....

Let me follow this logic:

A: Because Adventist are sinners who still sin.

B: The Bible is a faulty revelation.

Next step on slippery slope:

A: Because the majority of the world is going to hell in a handbasket.

B: God is either a liar or doesn't exist


Flip side of the logic:

A: The South African Conferences united.

B: Therefore the Bible is a true revelation.

[Clay]

Let me follow this logic:

A: Because Adventist are sinners who still sin.

B: The Bible is a faulty revelation.

Next step on slippery slope:

A: Because the majority of the world is going to hell in a handbasket.

B: God is either a liar or doesn't exist
Flip side of the logic:

A: The South African Conferences united.

B: Therefore the Bible is a true revelation.

no that is not the logic at all..... here is the logic that some have presented....

1. The bible is the Word of God that should be studied and followed implicitedly by all believers....

2. It is the authority by which we as adventist's live our lives....

3. We study the bible and implement its principles and allow its precepts to transform our lives....

::::::::::YET::::::::::

We still are segregated by color in the NAD, and white flight still occurs in our churches...

consequently how much do you really believe points 1 thru 3?


That is what I am pointing out....

[Reflection]

- Hi again. Splitting a topic is a bit confusing for me. It really looks like two topics here. Tell me how this works. Is a topic ever started fresh, rather than having the two intertwined like this? (Seems Bible and prejudice in the SDA church are really two topics?)

- Regarding the prejudice issue: Years ago I brought a close friend (caucasian) into the church. She lived in a southern state and began attending the closest church (about a 2 hour driver from her home). There were two things that pushed her out of the church:
1. The blatant prejudice expressed nonchalantly amongst members. She had a small child too and didn't want him exposed to that. She decided to stop attending.
2. She was overweight and after being absent from church for a little while, she decided to venture out. Maybe she could be a positive influence there. She was stopped on the church steps by a "saint" who tried to sell her a weight loss MLM deal (on Sabbath).

If my memory serves me correctly that was her last trip to church. It's been over 15 years now and I can't even bring it up.

- Once, a Carribean American Adventist told me how frustrated she and her husband were about the segregation of our churches. She expressed a deep concern about it. She told me a story about her husband's first experience with a church when he arrived here. He walked up the steps of an SDA church on Sabbath, and the elder stopped him and politely told him he was in the wrong church. The church he was looking for was over there, across the street.

I've asked about this many times and I'm not getting a satisfactory answer.

- Both issues: So Clay , what you are saying has some merit in that it is probably keeping people out of the church and pushing some people out. I don't get what that has to do with the Bible. I do feel frustrated that people who claim to have a relationship with God are doing these things, owning these attitudes, etc. Perhaps these people who claim to be people of the Book are neglecting their Bible study? Perhaps they are relying mostly on "feeling," "impressions" and such? Maybe it is the opposite of what you say? The seesaw goes up, then down, then up.....

Scientific study anyone? Valid research, I'd say!

[Clay]

Hi again. Splitting a topic is a bit confusing for me. uhm.gif It really looks like two topics here. Tell me how this works. Is a topic ever started fresh, rather than having the two intertwined like this? (Seems Bible and prejudice in the SDA church are really two topics?)

topics are split when they veer off into another direction that has very little to do with the original premise of a thread... In this case I think we were discussing dreams and visions, and the thread morphed into the bible and prejudice..... V of Z suggested a new thread so I split it based on that request....

[simplysaved]

Simple...and you know the real answer to this one: Most don't study, pick it up once a week, and can only quote what they learned as a child...

ummmmm people still worshipping in ignorance.... and in superstition, and are in spiritual bondage.... in our church in this day and age.....

Let me ask this, if the bible is the transforming power that some of you believe it to be, why with all the bible studying adventists that go to church every sabbath, do we remain segregated by color in North America? It seems to me if the bible is what you say it is, that it would have impacted that simple issue..... Seems like if the bible is transforming we would not be segregating ourselves by color and culture.....

As for my formative years I was taught by loving grandparents who conveyed to me that God would always take care of me and that I could talk to him anytime I wanted..... was the bible endorsed? As most adventist homes we learn mass quantities of scripture, memorized it, recited it etc..... but the emphasis was on communication and relationship....

[Clay]

Simple...and you know the real answer to this one: Most don't study, pick it up once a week, and can only quote what they learned as a child...

I agree with that....

[princessdi]

I don't know if this point was brought out, but the regional conference were established by the white folk who believed enough in God, the Bible, EGW to evangelize black folk, but not enough to worship with them. Sadly, our churches resemble society in the area of white flight. Saturday and Sunday mornings are the most segregated time of the week in America. For the most part, regional conferences are not interested in intergrating because we can not assured that as we meld these confereces, and there are job duplications to resolve, that the "best" person will get the job, as opposed to absorbing the black conferences into the white ones. However, I am particular saddened about my own church, which claims to have ALL truth and to be God's remnant church.

[HUGGINS130]

I know of a situation that is currently happening... in an adventist church.... predominantly white, more members of color are attending and the white members are quietly leaving and meeting somewhere else.... yes that's right, here in 2006... it is occurring....

i just gotta go there today... the question remains, can you really blame them, they are a product of their environment, and "america will always be a product of her past!" things in this country are always slow to change

This post has been edited by HUGGINS130: Sep 3 2006, 08:21 PM

[Denny]

here in the United States sometimes what happens is when black members begin attending predominantly white churches when it reaches the point that there are too many black members, the white members of that church begin to leave and find other places to worship... eventually all the white members disappear leaving just the black members in that church...

aka the (ethnic/racial) cleansing of the sanctuary post 1844

I don't know if this point was brought out, but the regional conference were established by the white folk who believed enough in God, the Bible, EGW to evangelize black folk, but not enough to worship with them. Sadly, our churches resemble society in the area of white flight. Saturday and Sunday mornings are the most segregated time of the week in America. For the most part, regional conferences are not interested in intergrating because we can not assured that as we meld these confereces, and there are job duplications to resolve, that the "best" person will get the job, as opposed to absorbing the black conferences into the white ones. However, I am particular saddened about my own church, which claims to have ALL truth and to be God's remnant church.

I thought black Adventists asked for regional conferences after the death of a black Adventist lady who was refused treatment for the nearest Adventist hospital that only treated white people?
Is the Adventist church the only Christian church that operates this way in the USA?
Perhaps the best thing to do is dismantle the whole structure (worldwide) and start again?

[Clay]

aka the (ethnic/racial) cleansing of the sanctuary post 1844
I thought black Adventists asked for regional conferences after the death of a black Adventist lady who was refused treatment for the nearest Adventist hospital that only treated white people?
Is the Adventist church the only Christian church that operates this way in the USA?
Perhaps the best thing to do is dismantle the whole structure (worldwide) and start again?

no..... regional conferences were formed when the black leadership asked the white leaders to be included in the organizational structure..... the white brethren responded by proposing regional conferences......

and no adventists are not the only ones who have separated themselves based on color.....

[Denny]

no..... regional conferences were formed when the black leadership asked the white leaders to be included in the organizational structure..... the white brethren responded by proposing regional conferences......

and no adventists are not the only ones who have separated themselves based on color.....

I see was it supposed to be separate but equal or something?

[Reflection]

no..... regional conferences were formed when the black leadership asked the white leaders to be included in the organizational structure..... the white brethren responded by proposing regional conferences......

and no adventists are not the only ones who have separated themselves based on color.....

Are there any books on this topic/the history of it all, attempts to change it, etc.? Anyone working on one at this time? And if not, do you know why?

[Clay]

I see was it supposed to be separate but equal or something?

yes... or something.....

[Reflection]

aka the (ethnic/racial) cleansing of the sanctuary post 1844
I thought black Adventists asked for regional conferences after the death of a black Adventist lady who was refused treatment for the nearest Adventist hospital that only treated white people?
Is the Adventist church the only Christian church that operates this way in the USA?
Perhaps the best thing to do is dismantle the whole structure (worldwide) and start again?

Denny: Tell me where I can read more about this story. Thanks!