 Prejudice in the Adventist Church |
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 Oct 22 2006, 03:14 PM
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#136
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 1,000 + posts  Group: Members Posts: 2,002 Joined: 18-July 06 From: Sweden Member No.: 1,902 Gender: m  |
If the structure of the church is of such nature that it is liable to blackmail, then the structure should be changed rather than the structure following the blackmailer. We must not let organisation become an end in itself.
-------------------- Christ crucified for our sins, Christ risen from the dead, Christ ascended on high, is the science of salvation that we are to learn and to teach. {8T 287.2}
Most Noble and Honourable Thomas the Abstemious of Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch "I have said it before and I repeat it now: If someone could prove to me that apartheid is compatible with the Bible or christian faith, I would burn my bible and stop being a christian" Desmond Tutu |
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Oct 22 2006, 03:24 PM
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#137
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 5,000 + posts  Group: Charter Member Posts: 6,128 Joined: 20-July 03 Member No.: 15 Gender: m |
QUOTE(västergötland @ Oct 22 2006, 05:14 PM) [snapback]157754[/snapback] If the structure of the church is of such nature that it is liable to blackmail, then the structure should be changed rather than the structure following the blackmailer. We must not let organisation become an end in itself. That ship has already sailed, my brother... look at the spots and blemishes on the church of the last 75 years or so and it quickly becomes apparent the church long ago became an end unto itself rather than a means to the end of preaching the gospel to every nation and tongue and kindred and people... as noted in the EGW Reality check thread, the choices made by the church are inherently self-serving, IMO and not to the benefit of the membership... if not outright to the detriment of the membership. In His service, Mr. J -------------------- There is no one more dangerous than one who thinks he knows God with a mind that is ignorant - Dr. Lewis Anthony
You’ve got to be real comfortable in your own skin to survive the animosity your strength evokes in people you'd hope would like you. - Dr. Renita Weems |
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Oct 22 2006, 03:26 PM
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#138
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 5,000 + posts Group: Administrator Posts: 19,829 Joined: 20-July 03 From: Alabama Member No.: 4 Gender: m |
QUOTE(awesumtenor @ Oct 22 2006, 03:58 PM) [snapback]157753[/snapback] Because the tithe received by the church is disproportionately received, with the majority of tithes still coming from the NAD. As I heard it, those making the threat would have significantly adversely affected tithe receipts if they left the church and took their money with them, which would have put outreach and mission objectives in jeopardy. Since the nominee in question withdrew his name from consideration, the bluff was never called... DISCLAIMER: This is what I heard from an NAD delegate; I have not independently verified same.... In His service, Mr. J you are not the only one that knew of this.... I also was told this by a reliable source... QUOTE(västergötland @ Oct 22 2006, 04:14 PM) [snapback]157754[/snapback] If the structure of the church is of such nature that it is liable to blackmail, then the structure should be changed rather than the structure following the blackmailer. We must not let organisation become an end in itself. been saying that for years I have.... dismantle and rebuild...... -------------------- "you are as sick as your secrets...." -quote from Celebrity Rehab-
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Oct 22 2006, 05:49 PM
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#139
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 PrincessDrRe Group: Financial Donor Posts: 9,011 Joined: 8-November 04 Member No.: 712 Gender: f |
-------------------- *"Some folks use their ignorance like a umbrella. It covers everything, they perodically take it out from time to time, but it never is too far away from them."*
PrincessDrRe; March, 2007 ~"Blood = Meat, Face = Meat, Internal "Organs" = Meat - you can try to make it cuter; but it's still meat...."~ PrincessDrRe; September, 2007 *(NOTE: Any advice given by Re' Silvey, MSW is not to be taken as medical/mental health advice. Although trained to be a counselor, currently employed as a therapist, and currently pursuing her PhD in Counseling Psychology (ABD/I) - she is not your assigned therapist. Please consult a mental health professional of your choice for a face-to-face consultation.)* |
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Oct 22 2006, 06:55 PM
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#140
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5,000 + posts Group: Administrator Posts: 19,829 Joined: 20-July 03 From: Alabama Member No.: 4 Gender: m |
QUOTE(awesumtenor @ Oct 22 2006, 04:24 PM) [snapback]157755[/snapback] That ship has already sailed, my brother... look at the spots and blemishes on the church of the last 75 years or so and it quickly becomes apparent the church long ago became an end unto itself rather than a means to the end of preaching the gospel to every nation and tongue and kindred and people... as noted in the EGW Reality check thread, the choices made by the church are inherently self-serving, IMO and not to the benefit of the membership... if not outright to the detriment of the membership. In His service, Mr. J and if the .org has been doing this for the last 75 yrs, what makes any reasonable person believe that it will now, "do the right thing?" -------------------- "you are as sick as your secrets...." -quote from Celebrity Rehab-
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Oct 23 2006, 03:34 PM
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#141
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 1,000 + posts Group: Members Posts: 1,398 Joined: 10-April 06 From: The Hill Country Member No.: 1,679 Gender: f |
QUOTE He said...whites are not as spiritual as black people. Seeing as he would have to know the spiritual life of every black person and every white person to make an accurate determination (and I KNOW he never asked me about my spirituality)...I find this statement odd and inappropriate for a pastor to make. 
-------------------- Shelley
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." Mark Twain "It is not my first object in life to make people like me." Elizabeth Prentiss "Níor dhún Dia doras riamh nar oscail Sé ceann eile." |
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Oct 23 2006, 08:22 PM
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#142
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PrincessDrRe Group: Financial Donor Posts: 9,011 Joined: 8-November 04 Member No.: 712 Gender: f |
QUOTE(seeshell @ Oct 23 2006, 04:34 PM) [snapback]157825[/snapback] Seeing as he would have to know the spiritual life of every black person and every white person to make an accurate determination (and I KNOW he never asked me about my spirituality)...I find this statement odd and inappropriate for a pastor to make. You ain't the only one that found it "odd" - but how many folks called him to the mat for the comment? Chances are - not many...... Was anything done about the comment? Chances are - not.......
-------------------- *"Some folks use their ignorance like a umbrella. It covers everything, they perodically take it out from time to time, but it never is too far away from them."*
PrincessDrRe; March, 2007 ~"Blood = Meat, Face = Meat, Internal "Organs" = Meat - you can try to make it cuter; but it's still meat...."~ PrincessDrRe; September, 2007 *(NOTE: Any advice given by Re' Silvey, MSW is not to be taken as medical/mental health advice. Although trained to be a counselor, currently employed as a therapist, and currently pursuing her PhD in Counseling Psychology (ABD/I) - she is not your assigned therapist. Please consult a mental health professional of your choice for a face-to-face consultation.)* |
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Oct 23 2006, 08:32 PM
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#143
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Advanced Member  Group: Members Posts: 50 Joined: 3-October 03 From: Ohio Member No.: 179 |
QUOTE(Clay @ Oct 20 2006, 08:47 AM) [snapback]157568[/snapback] Greenie... a snippet from the prayer that Jesus prayed just before his death.... It is my belief that Jesus prayed for the unity of his believers that in so doing the world would believe the message they were presenting.... Fact is that His so called believers are not unified, and the world doesn't really believe now does it? I believe you hit the nail on the head Clay ! -------------------- "Love not the world ,neither the things that are in the world ,if any man love the world,the love of the father is not in him." 1John 2:15 Brew |
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Oct 23 2006, 09:05 PM
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#144
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 Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 142 Joined: 16-June 06 From: North Carolina Member No.: 1,812 Gender: f |
QUOTE(seeshell @ Oct 23 2006, 04:34 PM) [snapback]157825[/snapback] Seeing as he would have to know the spiritual life of every black person and every white person to make an accurate determination (and I KNOW he never asked me about my spirituality)...I find this statement odd and inappropriate for a pastor to make. My pastor made that comment to me when I had the "meeting" with him. There was only one other person in the office with us. He said it has been his experience comparing blacks with whites at all the churches he had pastored. He said that from what he saw black people were always more involved overall and showed their spirituality more. That is why he felt like black people were more spiritual than white people. Jene' |
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Oct 24 2006, 06:03 AM
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#145
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 1,000 + posts Group: Charter Member Posts: 3,467 Joined: 21-July 03 From: Florida (Bona Fide Transplanted New Yorker) Member No.: 51 Gender: f |
QUOTE(Clay @ Oct 22 2006, 07:55 PM) [snapback]157770[/snapback] and if the .org has been doing this for the last 75 yrs, what makes any reasonable person believe that it will now, "do the right thing?" Surely no one here believes that it will!  QUOTE(jene @ Oct 23 2006, 10:05 PM) [snapback]157865[/snapback] My pastor made that comment to me when I had the "meeting" with him. There was only one other person in the office with us. He said it has been his experience comparing blacks with whites at all the churches he had pastored. He said that from what he saw black people were always more involved overall and showed their spirituality more. That is why he felt like black people were more spiritual than white people. Jene' Then he is as ignorant as I thought he was when you first made mention of that comment...and he ain't the only "ignant" SDA pastor I have had the misfortune of meeting or hearing about... -------------------- Visit my blog--"Musings of a Black Scrapbooker"
Talia's MySpace Page He who has My commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves Me. And he who loves Me shall be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will reveal Myself to him." --John 14:21 Any comments on blacksda.com made by Talia A. Dickson, J.D. with respect to the law are purely academic in nature and should NOT be construed as legal advice. Mrs. Dickson is not yet authorized to practice law in any jurisdiction. Should you need legal advice for a specific issue, you are encouraged to seek out the advice of an attorney of your own choosing. |
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Oct 24 2006, 06:34 AM
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#146
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 5,000 + posts Group: Charter Member Posts: 7,875 Joined: 20-July 03 From: United Kingdom Member No.: 2 Gender: f |
QUOTE(LeePaDee @ Oct 22 2006, 07:48 AM) [snapback]157721[/snapback] JENE WROTE: I would like to comment on the original topic. Let's pretend for a moment that all conferences were restructured to be divided up geographically and not racially. Would that change the racial makeup of churches? I don't think so. ------You are probably wrong, whites would leave SDAism in stampedes if Blacks were the leaders of their conferences. When a Black person was*being thought about* as the president of GC ... certain bretheren threatened to leave and "take out" several SDA institutions!!!! White-Flight just ain't gone stop!!!! They should have called their bluff QUOTE(awesumtenor @ Oct 22 2006, 09:58 PM) [snapback]157753[/snapback] Because the tithe received by the church is disproportionately received, with the majority of tithes still coming from the NAD. As I heard it, those making the threat would have significantly adversely affected tithe receipts if they left the church and took their money with them, which would have put outreach and mission objectives in jeopardy. Since the nominee in question withdrew his name from consideration, the bluff was never called... DISCLAIMER: This is what I heard from an NAD delegate; I have not independently verified same.... In His service, Mr. J I can understand the candidate did it for 'the good name of the church' or not to split the church but since the church is already split then why not let em go and trust in God. EGW mentioned a similar problem back in the day 'until the Lord shows us a better way' that was almost 100 years ago. I bet we have not asked the Lord for a better way cos deep down the powers that be don't want one..... -------------------- Queen Den
March- Ok where is spring? .. |
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Oct 24 2006, 10:46 AM
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#147
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 1,000 + posts Group: Members Posts: 1,947 Joined: 24-December 04 Member No.: 770 |
powers-that-be nothin. if the individuals sitting in the pews wanted a difference then things would happen. but they don't.
'cause they're sheep. or they are so blasé that they don't really care. -------------------- "NATURAL FABRIC! NATURAL FABRIC!!!"
largo, mt, 961 |
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Oct 24 2006, 04:35 PM
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#148
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 1,000 + posts Group: Members Posts: 1,741 Joined: 19-April 05 From: Huntsville, Alabama Member No.: 984 Gender: f |
QUOTE(beanchild @ Oct 24 2006, 10:46 AM) [snapback]157906[/snapback] powers-that-be nothin. if the individuals sitting in the pews wanted a difference then things would happen. but they don't. 'cause they're sheep. or they are so blasé that they don't really care. I agree, bean... -------------------- Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people.
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Oct 24 2006, 06:44 PM
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#149
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 500 + posts  Group: Financial Donor Posts: 542 Joined: 4-June 05 Member No.: 1,162 Gender: f |
E E Cleveland's autobiography speaks to this issue very clearly with numerous stories about how blacks were treated in the church early on. He also tells how the black ministers boycotted separate but equal style dinning rooms at conferences. But the most interesting was when the GC president speaking to a group of black ministers after the choir sang, talked about how when he got to heaven he was going to go over to the black side of heaven and just hear their choir!
Apart from church, racism is a national problem. Why do we think that because people go to church, they are living what they are taught in church? It's not about church, it's about hearts. Hearts that are changed and open to living His will are the ones that are open to all people being one. Until all people get over the racial hump, none are going to get to heaven. On another note, black churches can hardly get to meeting other people when they have trouble sitting next to a member they don't particularly care for, privately, or otherwise. You've got to get your own house in order before you can have an open house. -------------------- Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
John 14:26-28 KJV |
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Oct 25 2006, 04:58 AM
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#150
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5,000 + posts Group: Charter Member Posts: 7,875 Joined: 20-July 03 From: United Kingdom Member No.: 2 Gender: f |
The church is a reflection of the society it lives in with all its prejudices and the ignorant comments that come with it (race/ethnic grp, gender, class etc). However if we truely believe in being 'transformed by the renewing of our minds' - a new attitude and way of thinking and not 'conforming to this world' how long we going to let the 'old man' run things in the way we do church?
-------------------- Queen Den
March- Ok where is spring? .. |
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