Prejudice in the Adventist Church Options

[seeshell]

...little racist white kids.

I even question why there are non-black members on this board. It is my experience that blacks can never have anything of substance without whites wanting to be involved. There are always one or two whites in prodominantly black churches. I have thought, in my conspiracy theory imagination, that many times they are there merely to spy on the situation.

Pastor J

p.s. yeah I have a issues

Yes, you do have issues.

I believe it is made quite clear that non-blacks are perfectly welcome here. If you don't want to associate with those of other colours, I guess you are in the wrong place. I'm sorry, but "stuff" (I won't call it the rude word it really is) like this makes me FURIOUS.

[TrulyBlessedOne]

Is this your wish? Should we leave?

I merely questioned your presence on this forum. I meant to expound on that, but I got off on another vein. My question stems from the fact that while this board welcomes all ethnicities (see board rules), its function (as I understand it) is to address the black experience within the SDA church. If you are not black, you cannot contribute to the discussion on this matter.

You can learn alot from viewing the posts, but like I stated before, if you have no new information to help better the black experience in the SDA church, it does not help for you to post on those topics. I am not advocating an exodus of all non-black members of BSDA, however, I would appreciate it if they would not make insensitive comments regarding an experience of which they do not have first hand knowledge.

I long for the day when we can be equals in every aspect, but the truth of the matter is that we do not live in that reality. Given that reality, we need to be sensitive to each other's experience. That requires a certain etiquette when speaking on matters that our outside our experience. The princple applies to a black who grew up in a Cali suburb vs. a black who grew up in the projects in Mississippi. The one from Cali bet not compare their experience to the brother from the Sip.

I just ask that people be considerate and sensitive. If you can provide a positive comment to the discussion, please do, but do not minimize the experience of a people, if you have not lived their experience.

Pastor J

This post has been edited by TrulyBlessedOne: Oct 26 2006, 12:48 PM

[seeshell]

Considerate and sensitive, sir, does not include making such comments as "little racist white kids."

[TrulyBlessedOne]

Considerate and sensitive, sir, does not include making such comments as "little racist white kids."

I am merely stating a fact. What else would you call a young caucasian child who calls grown black men nigger or boy?

[LeePaDee]

SEESHELL WROTE:
I'm sorry, but "stuff" (I won't call it the rude word it really is) like this makes me FURIOUS
------WOW!!! and the *stuff* that GREEN C was saying "didn't" make you furious??

[västergötland]

I wonder, could a person who is black and has lived their entire life in Lagos or Windhoek contribute to this experience you mention?

[TrulyBlessedOne]

I wonder, could a person who is black and has lived their entire life in Lagos or Windhoek contribute to this experience you mention?

Sure couldn't. When I speak of the "black experience", I am speaking of people of african heritage living within the borders of the United States of America. There are some who have migrated from the West Indies that share the experience as well. However the black experience is primarily in the U.S.

Pastor J

[västergötland]

Good thing we got that definition made, so we all know what we are talking about.

[awesumtenor]

It sure sounds like you want every white person to say he or she is racist. Is this really true? Why would you WANT such a thing? Incomprehensible to me. I'm sorry.

I am not speaking to every white person... I am not even speaking to every white person *here*. I am speaking to you and only you. You keep trying to make specific comments general... less accountability that way, it seems...

God knows my heart. You have more than presumption here--as though you know my heart, when you have not even met me.

No presumption at all... "...of the abundance of the heart, his mouth speaketh."

Your words are strong. It appears that you perceive me to be your enemy. Tell me this, would you perceive the white gentleman who wrote the book "black like me" to be prejudiced too? (I cried when I read that book.) I suppose you have no forgiveness for any of us melanin-challenged folk.

This would be amusing... if it weren't so sad... You aren't my enemy; you are a misguided brother overtaken in a fault. I have no enmity towards " the man"... I don't hate white people... I'm not wearing a bow tie, slinging bean pies and calling you a blue-eyed devil...or anyone else who happens to be of the caucasian persuasion...

Would you please forgive me? Would I need to change my skin at the dermatologist's to get any respect with you? Or would that even do anything.

It's not about your skin; it never has been. I'm just trying to free you from the cave...

"Once have I spoken; but I will not answer: yea, twice; but I will proceed no further."

It's better to light a lamp than to curse the darkness... you dont know... and you dont know that you don't know... which makes you unteachable... so be it.

In His service,
Mr. J

[seeshell]

I am merely stating a fact. What else would you call a young caucasian child who calls grown black men nigger or boy?

You make out like all young caucasian children are being raised this way. I can assure you that they are not. Your words are inflammatory and rude.

SEESHELL WROTE:
I'm sorry, but "stuff" (I won't call it the rude word it really is) like this makes me FURIOUS
------WOW!!! and the *stuff* that GREEN C was saying "didn't" make you furious??

No, it didn't. I think GC is trying to understand and express some of the feelings of "the other side" and is getting beat over the head for his pains. You know what that will get you? Fewer white people who will take the pains. White people may not have a perfect understanding of "the black experience" (which I would say it is arrogant to relegate only to the black people of the US), how will they get a better understanding if they are not permitted to join in discussion on the issue?

I would also respectfully submit that it also works the other way. I, as a white person, do not like to be held as an emotional hostage for the things other people who shared my skin colour did. I WASN'T THERE. I DIDN'T DO IT. I wish that I could have black friends without this being an issue.

As far as reparations...that might be a good thing, but then wouldn't the black folks have to funnel it back as reparations to the Jews who were held in slavery in Egypt for 400 years?

[princessdi]

Actually, Shell, TBO has a point. BSDA was originated by Calvin for the experience of black Adventist, because it is different from the one of white Adventist. However, not to the point of exclusion. All have always been welcome. But what the caucasian members have to realize is that you are going to hear about the injustices against blacks in society and in the church,a nd if they can live with it(as so many seem to), then so be it.

The reason TBO made the statement about whites being members here is because of those like Greenie who start rationalizing and invalidating, or having to explain every aspect of our experiences. This place is a place where we come to talk about those things without contradiction, with those who have also experienced and still experience these injustices.

TBO, issue is that there is a member of the race which still today victimzes his own race, telling us basically to "get over it", and be happy with the day, week, month we are given. It is a legitimate issue.

Now, that being said. No, our white members need not leave or feel unwelcome. First and foremost here, we are christian. Discrimination and exculsion have no place in a christian life. The purpose is not to exact revenge by committing the same wrongs done to us. I believe, and Calvin can speak for himself, that BSDA is ever expanding and will continue "abundantly and exceedingly more" than even Calvin had planned. It is apparent to me that he has dedicated this site to The Lord as a ministry for Him, and He continues to bless Calvins diligence in this ministry.

Yes, you do have issues.

I believe it is made quite clear that non-blacks are perfectly welcome here. If you don't want to associate with those of other colours, I guess you are in the wrong place. I'm sorry, but "stuff" (I won't call it the rude word it really is) like this makes me FURIOUS.

[beanchild]

well said, di.

[TrulyBlessedOne]

You make out like all young caucasian children are being raised this way. I can assure you that they are not. Your words are inflammatory and rude.

I try not to generalize when I make statements, but rather address what I have seen and experienced. I know for a fact that on the gulf coast of Florida, there are a generation of racist white kids being raised. And it is not isolated to that area. I know that not all white people are racist, however, it is more wide spread then many whites are willing to admit.

I apologize if you were offended, but my opinion is that if a statement doesn't apply to you, you shouldn't be offended by the statement. I am not saying that you are secretly racist, I am merely saying why would you be offended if you were not a "little white racist".

Please don't take any of my comments personally. I like to make bold comments to get people to think about stuff. Many people don't think about some of the crazy and wrong things that they do, so I try to "expose" as many things as possible when I see an opportunity.

Pastor J

[princessdi]

You make out like all young caucasian children are being raised this way. I can assure you that they are not. Your words are inflammatory and rude.

Shell, the racism not blatant, but subtle. Like the reacism that exists today in our churches. Regional conference are a part of that racism, and now 50 years later, it is eing called cultural diversity, and pretending like it is all about "how" each group worships. It is also like the religious arrogance betweendenominations, it is a subtle part of our speech and expectations, we don't even realize that it is there until pointed out to us. Even then our first repsonse is defensive. This is one thing that I can truly say that if you have not experienced it, you will not get it, or detect it on it's many subtle levels. Just trust me on this one.

No, it didn't. I think GC is trying to understand and express some of the feelings of "the other side" and is getting beat over the head for his pains. You know what that will get you? Fewer white people who will take the pains. White people may not have a perfect understanding of "the black experience" (which I would say it is arrogant to relegate only to the black people of the US), how will they get a better understanding if they are not permitted to join in discussion on the issue?

GC might have gotten some answers has his every post not invalidated the experience of black people in the US. I am taking the time to answer you becuase I really believe you are truly trying to understand. BTW, it is not relegated to the US only, there have long been black Adventist on this site from other countries. They tell of their experiences also. GC and you would do well to try to understand why his comments illicit such a response, instead of justifying them. In short, he poured salt into an open wound with his words. His words maynot have angered you, but it would behove you to try to understand as much as possible why they anger us. I am sure you did not intended it, but your justification of GC's response also smacks of that same invalidatiion.
I would also respectfully submit that it also works the other way. I, as a white person, do not like to be held as an emotional hostage for the things other people who shared my skin colour did. I WASN'T THERE. I DIDN'T DO IT. I wish that I could have black friends without this being an issue.

You are not eing held hostage, and by talking about it we are not blaming all white people, individually, but the truth is as the ruling class, racism has been on of thier useful tools in maintianing their power. I know it makes you all feel uncomfortable to hear about the things whic continue to happen in 2006, but they are true nonetheless, and we will continue to speak out about and against them. The only thing I can say here is, "if the shoe fits wear it .......if it doesn't don't try to put it on". Just read and learn.



As far as reparations...that might be a good thing, but then wouldn't the black folks have to funnel it back as reparations to the Jews who were held in slavery in Egypt for 400 years?

No, salvery back then were the result of wars, countries warring and the losers ending up slaves. Everyone understood the consequences. That is quite different from riding up to the AFrican coast and hunting down the people and sailing them away form all they know, in deplorable conditions, I might add..
[/quote]

This post has been edited by princessdi: Oct 26 2006, 01:39 PM

[jene]

Here we go again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Green Cochoa you say you are not prejudiced so I will give you the benefit of the doubt because I can almost taste the desperation in your posts. But please allow me to bring a few points to your awareness.

1. Don't be surprised at the wrath your statements invoke when you tell black people that slavery was a long time and they should basically get over it.

2. No other race was displaced from their homes and forced into slavery for such a long period of time, that includes the Japanese.

3. Black people were not considered to be equal with white people. I'm talking about literally less than a whole person. What was it? 5/8 of a man or something like that? This ideology was passed down generation to generation.

4. Black people were severly economically disadvantaged after they were freed from slavery. Read point #3. Ever try to dig yourself out of a hole? Well black people have been doing that ever since we sailed across the ocean to this country. Whole communities of black people have been plagued with extreme poverty which results in desperation that is acted out in horrible behaviour such as drugs, prostitution, gangs, etc.

5. After reading point #4 most people of other races would then say this is 2006. Black people have the same educational opportunites as others. Right? WRONG!!!!!!! Have you been to a classroom in an inner city public school? I bet you they are lacking in basic supplies needed such as textbooks and even desks while their white counterparts are not. If they can't get a decent education how can they go on to college or voc. tech. school to gain a profession to earn a living wage so the cycle does not repeat itself in future generations?

6. Prejudice feelings have not gone away. My parents were college students during the civil rights movement. That is just one generation ago. Do you think a couple of laws on the books can erase racism? Of course it can't!!!!!!! Racism is a feeling, an ideology, a way of thinking.

7. It seems like it is always white people or some other race telling black people to get over racism when we are living with the effects of it everyday. Stop telling people who you do not identify with how to deal with a situation.

I am sure that you are not a racist person. However, I honestly want you to please read my post and maybe try to look at life from another perspective. By the way, I am not making excuses for every negative thing that black people may be going through today because we as a people really need to take responsibilty and build up our own neighborhoods. I just want to point out to you that it is hard to do that when our hands have been tied behind our backs for so long.

Jene'