Ellen White Quote Options

[Uncle Sam]

Our Pastor shared this with us last night at prayer meeting. It gave me something to think about with all of this exposing of Danny's sins......just thought I would share.



Australian Years 1893-1900 pages 134, 135. The origional letter is referenced as Letter 48, 1894. She was writing to Elder Littlejohn,

She wrote 12 pages so these are just a couple of paragraphs.

"Elder Littlejohn, you have undertaken to point out the defects of Reformers and pioneers in the cause of God. No one should trace the lines which you have done. You have made public errors and defects of the people of God and in so doing have dishonored God and Jesus Christ. I would not for my right arm have given to the world that which you have written. You have not been conscience of what would be the influence of your work...
The Lord did not call upon you to present these things to the public as a correct history of our people. Your work will make it necessary for us to put forth labor to show why these brethern took the extreme position that they did, and call up the circumstances that vindicate those upon whom your articles have laid suspicion and reproach. ...

God will charge those who unwisely expose the mistakes of their brethern with sin of far greater magnitude than He will charge the one who made the misstep. Criticism and condemnation of the brethern are counted as criticism and condemnation of Christ.

[watchbird]

Our Pastor shared this with us last night at prayer meeting. It gave me something to think about with all of this exposing of Danny's sins......just thought I would share.
Australian Years 1893-1900 pages 134, 135. The origional letter is referenced as Letter 48, 1894. She was writing to Elder Littlejohn,

She wrote 12 pages so these are just a couple of paragraphs.

"Elder Littlejohn, you have undertaken to point out the defects of Reformers and pioneers in the cause of God. No one should trace the lines which you have done. You have made public errors and defects of the people of God and in so doing have dishonored God and Jesus Christ. I would not for my right arm have given to the world that which you have written. You have not been conscience of what would be the influence of your work...
The Lord did not call upon you to present these things to the public as a correct history of our people. Your work will make it necessary for us to put forth labor to show why these brethern took the extreme position that they did, and call up the circumstances that vindicate those upon whom your articles have laid suspicion and reproach. ...

God will charge those who unwisely expose the mistakes of their brethern with sin of far greater magnitude than He will charge the one who made the misstep. Criticism and condemnation of the brethern are counted as criticism and condemnation of Christ.

Context is such an important factor in "rightly dividing the word of truth"...... and even more so in applying the "word of truth" to circumstances which are far different than the original situation calling for the "testimony".

When Ellen White wrote testimonies to individuals, she wrote to correct that particular individual. And since some strayed from the path on the one side and some on the other, she wrote quite opposite things to those on each side of the path. And even in her lifetime it was quite common for those who needed the counsel on the one side to pick up the counsel to those straying in the opposite direction ..... and vice versa.

Ellen at times "hid" the sins of her brethren..... and at times exposed them. And she has counsel which is generalized to the church for when it is appropriate for us to choose between the same courses of action. In general, the "rules" are the same as those laid down in scripture .... sin must be exposed to the same extent to which it has affected other people (or that it has the potential for harming other people).

It is, IMO, cruelty of the rankest order for someone to add to the stress of the burdens that those of us carry....... who, either because we were directly victimized by the Shelton gang or have seen enough so that we simply can no longer stand aside without doing whatever it takes to get the evils we have seen (and any others that we haven't yet seen) expunged from the "camp"...... by applying such out of context quotes to us. If one is going to quote Ellen White, then please choose from her statements which reproves sin and which lays upon those who are aware of it the responsibility of reproving, exposing, and removing it from among us.

And if you really want to get personal .... using a "rake" instead of a "pitchfork" when handling her bundles of statements ..... then how about pulling them to yourselves instead of accusing us who are attempting to warn innocent victims (or victims to be). For example ... what about "criticism and condemnation of the brethren"..... and sisters..... who are standing on the Lord's side against continued evil?...... Will it not also be "counted as criticism and condemnation of Christ."

[Panama_Pete]

Our Pastor shared this with us last night at prayer meeting. It gave me something to think about with all of this exposing of Danny's sins......just thought I would share.
Australian Years 1893-1900 pages 134, 135. The origional letter is referenced as Letter 48, 1894. She was writing to Elder Littlejohn,

She wrote 12 pages so these are just a couple of paragraphs.

"Elder Littlejohn, you have undertaken to point out the defects of Reformers and pioneers in the cause of God. No one should trace the lines which you have done. You have made public errors and defects of the people of God and in so doing have dishonored God and Jesus Christ. I would not for my right arm have given to the world that which you have written. You have not been conscience of what would be the influence of your work...
The Lord did not call upon you to present these things to the public as a correct history of our people. Your work will make it necessary for us to put forth labor to show why these brethern took the extreme position that they did, and call up the circumstances that vindicate those upon whom your articles have laid suspicion and reproach. ...

God will charge those who unwisely expose the mistakes of their brethern with sin of far greater magnitude than He will charge the one who made the misstep. Criticism and condemnation of the brethern are counted as criticism and condemnation of Christ.

It depends on the circumstances and to whom she is speaking. If she's inside a church, she might say one thing.

"I have received letters questioning me in regard to the proper attitude to be taken by a person offering prayer to the Sovereign of the universe. Where have our brethren obtained the idea that they should stand upon their feet when praying to God? One who has been educated for about five years in Battle Creek was asked to lead in prayer before Sister White should speak to the people. But as I beheld him standing upright upon his feet while his lips were about to open in prayer to God, my soul was stirred within me to give him an open rebuke. Calling him by name, I said, “Get down upon your knees.” This is the proper position always." (Selected Messages, Vol. 2, p. 311)

To someone else, working in the wheat fields, she might say the opposite.

"It is not always necessary to bow upon your knees in order to pray. Cultivate the habit of talking with the Saviour when you are alone, when you are walking, and when you are busy with your daily labor. "(The Ministry of Healing, pp. 510, 511)

As for Elder Littlejohn, I don't know what the issues were.

[Uncle Sam]

Context is such an important factor in "rightly dividing the word of truth"...... and even more so in applying the "word of truth" to circumstances which are far different than the original situation calling for the "testimony".

When Ellen White wrote testimonies to individuals, she wrote to correct that particular individual. And since some strayed from the path on the one side and some on the other, she wrote quite opposite things to those on each side of the path. And even in her lifetime it was quite common for those who needed the counsel on the one side to pick up the counsel to those straying in the opposite direction ..... and vice versa.

Ellen at times "hid" the sins of her brethren..... and at times exposed them. And she has counsel which is generalized to the church for when it is appropriate for us to choose between the same courses of action. In general, the "rules" are the same as those laid down in scripture .... sin must be exposed to the same extent to which it has affected other people (or that it has the potential for harming other people).

It is, IMO, cruelty of the rankest order for someone to add to the stress of the burdens that those of us carry....... who, either because we were directly victimized by the Shelton gang or have seen enough so that we simply can no longer stand aside without doing whatever it takes to get the evils we have seen (and any others that we haven't yet seen) expunged from the "camp"...... by applying such out of context quotes to us. If one is going to quote Ellen White, then please choose from her statements which reproves sin and which lays upon those who are aware of it the responsibility of reproving, exposing, and removing it from among us.

And if you really want to get personal .... using a "rake" instead of a "pitchfork" when handling her bundles of statements ..... then how about pulling them to yourselves instead of accusing us who are attempting to warn innocent victims (or victims to be). For example ... what about "criticism and condemnation of the brethren"..... and sisters..... who are standing on the Lord's side against continued evil?...... Will it not also be "counted as criticism and condemnation of Christ."

I found this.....notice first paragraph


We are to direct the weapons of our warfare against our foes, but never to turn them toward those who are under marching orders from the Kings of kings, who are fighting manfully the battles of the Lord of lords. Let no one aim at a soldier whom God recognizes, whom God has sent forth to bear a special message to the world and to do a special work. The soldiers of Christ may not always reveal perfection in their step, but their mistakes


-286-

should call out from their fellow comrades not words that will weaken, but words that will strengthen, and will help them to recover their lost ground. They should not turn the glory of God to dishonor, and give an advantage to the bitterest foes of their King. {5MR 285.2}

Let not fellow-soldiers be severe, unreasonable judges of their comrades, and make the most of every defect. Let them not manifest satanic attributes in becoming accusers of the brethren. We shall find ourselves misrepresented and falsified by the world, while we are maintaining the truth and vindicating God's downtrodden law; but let no one dishonor the cause of God by making public some mistake that the soldiers of Christ may make, when that mistake is seen and corrected by [the] ones who have taken some false position. . . . God will charge those who unwisely expose the mistakes of their brethren with sin of far greater magnitude than He will charge the one who makes a misstep. Criticism and condemnation of the brethren are counted as criticism and condemnation of Christ.--Letter 48, 1894. (To Elder W. H. Littlejohn, June 3, 1894.) {5MR 286.1}

[Denny]

In that case if you take EGW as your guru for all things Adventist the concept based on what you just posted one could argue our practise of disfellowshipping which involves dealing with defects should not take place....


Context is the key, might as well say the bible text that talks about pluck out your eye if it offends you means to literally pluck out your eye.

I found this.....notice first paragraph
We are to direct the weapons of our warfare against our foes, but never to turn them toward those who are under marching orders from the Kings of kings, who are fighting manfully the battles of the Lord of lords. Let no one aim at a soldier whom God recognizes, whom God has sent forth to bear a special message to the world and to do a special work. The soldiers of Christ may not always reveal perfection in their step, but their mistakes
-286-

should call out from their fellow comrades not words that will weaken, but words that will strengthen, and will help them to recover their lost ground. They should not turn the glory of God to dishonor, and give an advantage to the bitterest foes of their King. {5MR 285.2}

Let not fellow-soldiers be severe, unreasonable judges of their comrades, and make the most of every defect. Let them not manifest satanic attributes in becoming accusers of the brethren. We shall find ourselves misrepresented and falsified by the world, while we are maintaining the truth and vindicating God's downtrodden law; but let no one dishonor the cause of God by making public some mistake that the soldiers of Christ may make, when that mistake is seen and corrected by [the] ones who have taken some false position. . . . God will charge those who unwisely expose the mistakes of their brethren with sin of far greater magnitude than He will charge the one who makes a misstep. Criticism and condemnation of the brethren are counted as criticism and condemnation of Christ.--Letter 48, 1894. (To Elder W. H. Littlejohn, June 3, 1894.) {5MR 286.1}

There is a difference between mistakes and treating someone badly and bad behaviour... such of the above is used by too many church members to sweep blatant wrongdoings practised by church members under the carpet....

This post has been edited by Denny: Sep 14 2006, 08:13 AM

[Panama_Pete]

I found this.....notice first paragraph
We are to direct the weapons of our warfare against our foes, but never to turn them toward those who are under marching orders from the Kings of kings, who are fighting manfully the battles of the Lord of lords. Let no one aim at a soldier whom God recognizes, whom God has sent forth to bear a special message to the world and to do a special work. The soldiers of Christ may not always reveal perfection in their step, but their mistakes
-286-

should call out from their fellow comrades not words that will weaken, but words that will strengthen, and will help them to recover their lost ground. They should not turn the glory of God to dishonor, and give an advantage to the bitterest foes of their King. {5MR 285.2}

Let not fellow-soldiers be severe, unreasonable judges of their comrades, and make the most of every defect. Let them not manifest satanic attributes in becoming accusers of the brethren. We shall find ourselves misrepresented and falsified by the world, while we are maintaining the truth and vindicating God's downtrodden law; but let no one dishonor the cause of God by making public some mistake that the soldiers of Christ may make, when that mistake is seen and corrected by [the] ones who have taken some false position. . . . God will charge those who unwisely expose the mistakes of their brethren with sin of far greater magnitude than He will charge the one who makes a misstep. Criticism and condemnation of the brethren are counted as criticism and condemnation of Christ.--Letter 48, 1894. (To Elder W. H. Littlejohn, June 3, 1894.) {5MR 286.1}

So, basically, we are to understand from this quote that Linda Shelton (and others) had special marching orders from the Lord and that Danny Shelton should not have turned his "weapons of warfare" against her and them.

That is what you meant to say, isn't it? Or, by chance, do you interpret these paragraphs a little differently? Since I don't know Ellen White's context, it's difficult to say.

[Observer]

Re: "You have made public errors and defects of the people of God and in so doing have dishonored God and Jesus Christ. "



It was 3-ABN, Danny, and Dr. Walter Thompson who have taken this public. They have publicly accused Linda. How many years has this gone on? Recently I was watching a program on 3-ABN, and it was a very good one. In that interview, Danny turned it to Linda when he made a comment regarding his ex-wife, and how a professional seduced her.

The God I worship is a God of truth and justice. That God calls for people to take a stand for what is right. When that wrong has been done in public, making it right, speaking for truth and justice must be done in public.

If you really knew the real story, you would know that there is much more than what many here have said. Many have been very careful to respond only as necessary, and have not gotten into non-appropriate stuff.

[Clay]

nothing like introducing the "fear factor" via egw into the discussion..... will this ever end?

[Denny]

nothing like introducing the "fear factor" via egw into the discussion..... will this ever end?

the adventist 'checkmate'

[watchbird]

I found this.....notice first paragraph
We are to direct the weapons of our warfare against our foes, but never to turn them toward those who are under marching orders from the Kings of kings, who are fighting manfully the battles of the Lord of lords. Let no one aim at a soldier whom God recognizes, whom God has sent forth to bear a special message to the world and to do a special work. The soldiers of Christ may not always reveal perfection in their step, but their mistakes
-286-

should call out from their fellow comrades not words that will weaken, but words that will strengthen, and will help them to recover their lost ground. They should not turn the glory of God to dishonor, and give an advantage to the bitterest foes of their King. {5MR 285.2}

Let not fellow-soldiers be severe, unreasonable judges of their comrades, and make the most of every defect. Let them not manifest satanic attributes in becoming accusers of the brethren. We shall find ourselves misrepresented and falsified by the world, while we are maintaining the truth and vindicating God's downtrodden law; but let no one dishonor the cause of God by making public some mistake that the soldiers of Christ may make, when that mistake is seen and corrected by [the] ones who have taken some false position. . . . God will charge those who unwisely expose the mistakes of their brethren with sin of far greater magnitude than He will charge the one who makes a misstep. Criticism and condemnation of the brethren are counted as criticism and condemnation of Christ.--Letter 48, 1894. (To Elder W. H. Littlejohn, June 3, 1894.) {5MR 286.1}

I think the clause I bolded is the key as to whether this applies to those of us who are making the Shelton sins public knowledge. There have been people who worked privately and earnestly with Danny Shelton for years. And this has been especially true for the last two plus years. Yet he has never acknowledged his "mistakes", he has never corrected his practices, he has never returned that to the Lord's coffers that which he has stolen and either used for his own glory or put into his private bank accounts. And the saddest part of this story is that he has hidden all of his sins behind a supposed "mandate from the Lord" that has exempted him from applying the commandments (he claims to teach) to his own self and kin and friends........ No .... maybe the saddest part of the story is that so many church leaders in high places have aided and abetted him in his transgressions. How about showing us the things that Ellen has to say about people who give their support to people like this?

And if you really wish to check out the Littlejohn context, a visit to the Ellen White Estate website may find material already posted on it, or if not, an email to one of the contacts there will bring you more of the story. But from the line that I bolded, it is quite apparent that what he had done was to expose mistakes which had already been repented of and turned from. That is not the case with the Shelton mess. Defenses, dips in a baptismal tank, a few changes in the handling of finances..... these do not absolve sin nor wipe away the financial debts that are already owed.

[Clay]

power run amuk.... and no one stepped up to question it until it was toooooo late....

[watchbird]

nothing like introducing the "fear factor" via egw into the discussion..... will this ever end?

It's not just the "fear factor" that concerns me, it is the turning Ellen White on her head and using her words in ways that she would never condone .... by attacking the very ones who are standing on God's side..... that..... to put it mildly..... bugs me.

Will it ever end? If you mean the rule by the Shelton Dynasty? Yes. That will come to an end. How, I don't know, and I have no idea how much damage the church will suffer for not having acted promptly in severing themselves from him. What I am very sure of is that the longer official voices delay in making an announcement to the church at large denouncing Danny Shelton and all who support and defend him.... forbidding Adventist churches from allowing him on their premises.... and that Adventists ministries, ministers, and evangelists are to no longer have anything to do with 3ABN ..... the more damage will be done when circumstances finally force them to this action. There was a time when there could have been some "heros". I am quite postitive that that time has long since passed. The "do nothing" posture has cost our church more than it may realize for decades to come.

But if by "will this ever end?" you mean will this taking the quotes of Ellen White and using them in ways never intended by her...... then no. Unfortunately that will never end so long as we are in the very imperfect world. Both her friends and enemies handled her words in the same way when she was alive..... and both her friends and enemies still do the same today.

the adventist 'checkmate'

Only if we allow it to be so. The game is not over just because someone pulls out an egw quotation. Actually, the most effective method to meet such things are what I call "fighting fire with fire". And I'm not speaking of engaging in a "flame war" with egw quotes as the weapons. I'm speaking of looking up the context of quotes that are misapplied, showing how they were intended to be applied, and only in that context, giving examples of her counsel that really does fit the situation of today.

What would Ellen do if she were here today? What would she do if she were asked to speak at a 3abn rally? Off hand, without doing some serious research (which unfortunately I don't dare take the time to do now), I think of the story that Roger Coon tells in his inimitable way when giving presentations on Ellen White .... something he did for years before .... and actually after ... he retired from White Estate several years ago.

It involved the case of a man with morals quite comparable to those of the Shelton clan .... And seemingly, his problems were somewhat well known.... for .... but I'm getting ahead of my story....

As Roger tells it .... complete with shrugging an invisible "shawl" around his shoulders and going through other postural motions that those who saw her in person described her as making ...

On this particular occasion, Ellen stood up to speak before a very large audience, and as usual, looked around the audience, arranged her notes on the podium, adjusted her shawl, cleared her throat, and opened her mouth, and ...... nothing came out.

She looked a bit surprised, went through the same preparations as before, opened her mouth to speak, and ..... still nothing came out.

According to the first hand witness to this..... who was a very alert and inquisitive boy at the time, but of course was an old man when he first told the experience to Roger.... this happened at least three times .... each time her look of puzzlement increased, and her visual "inspection" of the audience lengthened. At last, she turned around, and slowly looked down the long row of men seated behind her. Then suddenly, pointing directly at one of them, she spoke, loud and clear....

"How DARE you?!? How DARE you seat this man on the platform when I am going to speak?!? And either under the glare of her eyes, the pointing of the finger, or additional words from her mouth (memory is not clear at this point), the man rose, hunched as though he would like to disappear right there, but instead ran down the aisle and outside the building.

Roger goes on to give the details of "the rest of the story"..... which are immaterial here, and which I don't recall enough to recount even if I thought it appropriate, which I don't.

The point I want to make is that Ellen White, while being as one researcher called it, "so redemptively minded, that she frequently did not expose sin which really needed to be exposed", still had her limits. And she did NOT allow herself to appear to condone a hardened sinner by appearing on the same platform with him...... as some of our current leaders have unfortunately done.

So please ... any of you who have the inclination to call Ellen to your support in casting stones at those of us who are standing in support of the victims and against the perpetrators of wrong-doing such as is hard for most of us to even comprehend..... cool it. We are not on trial here. We are "about our Father's business"..... and our Father is the God of Light and Truth ... not the "father of lies".

[justme]

Someone help find this for me, but I remember reading from EGW that she also pointed out that a certain minister "Was not fit", to take the pulpit, "mount the desk" as she put it, because he practiced "self abuse" in private, something which no other soul knew about.

If impure sexual practices disqualify one from "speaking from the pulpit", the someone in Illinois better be careful.

She also says that knowing of sinful practices within organizations that claim to be doing God's work, and NOT speaking up about it is "tant amount" to supporting those sins.

Does anyone recall the letter someone posted where Danny said something really CRASS about Linda's "menstrual cycles" and also that "she would spread h _ _ _ _ _ s for anyone who came along"! I think it's off the forum by now. I can't find it today. What a disgusting remark, from the "chosen one". (chosen by whom???)

To ignore the problem is to support it.
To support the messenger is to support the message.
What IS the message coming from Danny? ("mind your own bees wax"?)

[Uncle Sam]

You are right we could get into a EGW quoting match. It just made me think when the Pastor mentioned this to us last night. I feel that this mess can take over "our" life and ruin us spiritually. I know I for one have gotten caught up in this and it has taken time away from more important things. Maybe you can handle this, I can't.

I know there of plenty of times that sins were pointed out and where sins were not pointed out. When they were exposed the ones doing the exposing didn't want to do it, it hurt them to have to do it. It seems to me that some are excited to "bring Danny down". If all of this is true, yes, he needs to be held accountable. But let's make sure in the process of all of this we don't lose our salvation....

[watchbird]

You are right we could get into a EGW quoting match. It just made me think when the Pastor mentioned this to us last night. I feel that this mess can take over "our" life and ruin us spiritually. I know I for one have gotten caught up in this and it has taken time away from more important things. Maybe you can handle this, I can't.

I know there of plenty of times that sins were pointed out and where sins were not pointed out. When they were exposed the ones doing the exposing didn't want to do it, it hurt them to have to do it. It seems to me that some are excited to "bring Danny down". If all of this is true, yes, he needs to be held accountable. But let's make sure in the process of all of this we don't lose our salvation....

You make some excellent points here. And it is certainly true that being involved in anything that is negative can have negative influences in one's own life .... and this is true even when the cause for which one fights is right and good. I have felt it necessary a few other times in my life to work earnestly against something .... and it has always had negative effects on my life .... both psychologically and physically .... but never spiritually. In order to endure I find it necessary to walk very closely with God and to focus on the positive good that can be accomplished .... so I come through times like these spiritually stronger than before even though I am drained both emotionally and physically.

I really don't know of anyone here who is "excited" about bringing Danny down. I think there are a great number of us who will feel a great relief when not only Danny, but ALL of the wrongdoers are "brought down" and the threats, not only to individuals, but to our church as a whole have been removed and restitution and healing can get underway. But "excitement" .... I think that is not a good word for the feelings. I'm not at all sure that you even dimly comprehend the pain and suffering that many have endured and are still enduring now.... or you would not even suggest such a word as "excitement". I do think that there will be many who will rejoice when this episode has been successfully concluded. I think scripture gives us permission .... and even injunctions .... to rejoice when our enemies have been destroyed and their victims have been exhonerated. Let's not deny them those opportunities to praise God with a joyful heart for His deliverance.