Ellen White Quote Options

[PeacefulBe]

nothing like introducing the "fear factor" via egw into the discussion..... will this ever end?

It's all about motive - how someone decides to USE her statements. If the dead could roll in their graves, I'm sure hers would be a cavern by now.

BTW Uncle Sam's EGW postings could be directed at all parties involved - those that have publicly attempted to villify Linda and some of those posting here.

Wise counsel can be misused. (And I'm not suggesting that Uncle Sam misused it or not!!!)

This post has been edited by PeacefullyBewildered: Sep 14 2006, 03:37 PM

[jodi]

Someone help find this for me, but I remember reading from EGW that she also pointed out that a certain minister "Was not fit", to take the pulpit, "mount the desk" as she put it, because he practiced "self abuse" in private, something which no other soul knew about.

If impure sexual practices disqualify one from "speaking from the pulpit", the someone in Illinois better be careful.

She also says that knowing of sinful practices within organizations that claim to be doing God's work, and NOT speaking up about it is "tant amount" to supporting those sins.

Does anyone recall the letter someone posted where Danny said something really CRASS about Linda's "menstrual cycles" and also that "she would spread h _ _ _ _ _ s for anyone who came along"! I think it's off the forum by now. I can't find it today. What a disgusting remark, from the "chosen one". (chosen by whom???)

To ignore the problem is to support it.
To support the messenger is to support the message.
What IS the message coming from Danny? ("mind your own bees wax"?)

That quote is in Barbara Kerr's pinned "Open Letter" which is still posted. Danny made that statement to her personally in a phone conversation. Pretty disgusting, isn't it??

I am hoping that after this weekend at PMC in Berrien, our church leaders will not use 3ABN any more....perhaps the only reason this weekend has continued as planned is that it has taken many months of preparation and committment.

I personally know of his MANY lies and did write to him about 1 1/2 years ago regarding a specific situation but he never responded...not surprising, since I had written proof.

I have prayed long and hard for God to handle all of this in His own way (and in His time) and now I see events moving very quickly. It won't be long before all will be made public and I do praise God for Linda's vindication. IT HAS HAPPENED!!!

[simplysaved]

Very well said!

You are right we could get into a EGW quoting match. It just made me think when the Pastor mentioned this to us last night. I feel that this mess can take over "our" life and ruin us spiritually. I know I for one have gotten caught up in this and it has taken time away from more important things. Maybe you can handle this, I can't.

I know there of plenty of times that sins were pointed out and where sins were not pointed out. When they were exposed the ones doing the exposing didn't want to do it, it hurt them to have to do it. It seems to me that some are excited to "bring Danny down". If all of this is true, yes, he needs to be held accountable. But let's make sure in the process of all of this we don't lose our salvation....

[justme]

That quote is in Barbara Kerr's pinned "Open Letter" which is still posted. Danny made that statement to her personally in a phone conversation. Pretty disgusting, isn't it??

I am hoping that after this weekend at PMC in Berrien, our church leaders will not use 3ABN any more....perhaps the only reason this weekend has continued as planned is that it has taken many months of preparation and committment.

I personally know of his MANY lies and did write to him about 1 1/2 years ago regarding a specific situation but he never responded...not surprising, since I had written proof.

I have prayed long and hard for God to handle all of this in His own way (and in His time) and now I see events moving very quickly. It won't be long before all will be made public and I do praise God for Linda's vindication. IT HAS HAPPENED!!!

... Linda's VINDICATION ...
When did it happen?
Where?
How?
Please elaborate, PLEASE ... thank you...

About the MAP series at PMC, have you noticed how "DRAWN" Danny looks in his face. He appears to be under a cloud. Never smiled.
Also I noticed that Danny came trotting out when Dwight turned and called for John Lomacang. Danny was not even mentioned as yet. Danny looks like he has seen a ghost. He moves stiffly and somberly.

They asked him to give the opening prayer but first he gave the "History of 3ABN" from his perspective.

[paleface]

I noticed that Danny nor John looked liked they were not having a good experience. Also did you notice that on Friday night that Danny did not receive even a polite applause from the audience. Sat. night was better. Both Doug and Dwight were nurvous as well.

[justme]

I noticed that Danny nor John looked liked they were not having a good experience. Also did you notice that on Friday night that Danny did not receive even a polite applause from the audience. Sat. night was better. Both Doug and Dwight were nurvous as well.

When it was John's turn to introduce Danny, danny was looking hard into John's eyes. John held the gaze as if to say, "What now?" or "Is everything OK?"

It is obviously straining for them.

And all the "Thank you's" from Doug and Dwight thanking 3ABN for the production help.

Wouldn't it be a shame if "the crash" came furing this week of such wonderful programs on "MAP"?!

[Mel]

What would Ellen do if she were here today? What would she do if she were asked to speak at a 3abn rally? Off hand, without doing some serious research (which unfortunately I don't dare take the time to do now), I think of the story that Roger Coon tells in his inimitable way when giving presentations on Ellen White

Here's the story I believe you were recalling, copied from Roger's little book "A Gift of Light"-- I've preceeded it by a shorter, related story opening the chapter where Dr. Coon recounts these incidents of public rebuke by the prophet.

=================================

In the early 1870s James and Ellen White were visiting summer camp meetings in Wisconsin and Minnesota. They had arrived on the grounds of one encampment after the meetings had begun. The people were assembled, probably in a large circus-type tent, and the speaker was well into his message.

The Whites paused momentarily on the edge of the gathering. Then Ellen took the arm of James, and together they walked down the center aisle, all the way down to the front row of seats. James took his seat, but Ellen remained standing. Looking up at the minister and pointing her finger at him in a way that only prophets can point, she interrupted the sermon. In an exceedingly loud voice she said, “You have no business to be standing by that desk. You are not a fit man to be bringing a message to these people.”

The speaker stopped short. Amazement crossed the faces of all in the congregation. Had the people known (as they later learned) that Ellen White had never met or even seen this man before, nor did she know anything about him except what the Lord had revealed to her in vision, their awe would have been compounded.

Mrs. White earlier had only heard the sound of this man’s voice in vision. And then the Lord had instructed her that when she heard this voice, she was to deliver this message: “Tell him that he is not a fit man to preach to the people. There is a woman in another state who calls him husband and a child who calls {35} him father, and there is a woman here on this campground who calls him husband and a child who calls him father.”

When Ellen White delivered that message, the preacher bolted from the platform and disappeared. His sermon, like Schubert’s Symphony No. 8, remained forever unfinished.

Sitting in the congregation that morning was the speaker’s own brother. He now came forward and admitted that what Ellen White had said was true. The speaker had indeed been living a double life for some time, and most certainly he deserved this unusual rebuke. The Spirit of God blessed that camp meeting, and a great revival of godliness and holy living followed in its wake. 31 [see footnotes at end]

-----------------------------------------------------------

Harold M. Blunden was about 12 or 13 and living in North Fitzroy, Australia, when word came that the American prophet would speak on the following Sabbath afternoon. Harold was skeptical about modern-day prophets, certainly about American prophets, and especially about female prophets!
Harold felt, though, that he had to make up his mind for himself, so he determined to go early the next week and take a seat on the second row right on the aisle. He wanted to see and hear everything that happened.

That afternoon there was standing room only. The rostrum was filled with church officials, and only two seats in the center were empty. The train bringing Ellen White had been delayed two hours. The ministers present kept the congregation’s attention by songs, prayers, testimonies, and brief remarks. Finally the door opened, and the diminutive woman prophet walked in, holding the arm of a distinguished American missionary, A. G. Daniells. Daniells introduced her from the pulpit and then retired to take one of the empty seats behind. Ellen White stood at the desk, laid her manuscript down, adjusted her shawl and manuscript, looked up at the people, smiled, and opened her mouth to speak. But no words came out.

She looked somewhat surprised, as did her hearers. Slowly she scanned the audience, then looked down at the pulpit, adjusted {41} her manuscript and shawl, looked up, smiled, and opened her mouth to speak. Again no words came. A look of consternation crossed the prophet’s face, and a ripple of anxiety spread through the congregation.

Again she scanned her audience, this time more slowly—intently, as if looking for someone in particular. This time she didn’t stop upon reaching the far side, but turned around and looked at the faces of the ministers in the seats behind her. Nathaniel Davis, a tall, lanky man, was sitting on the end. She turned to Daniells and said in disbelief, “What is this man doing on the platform with me?”
Since her back was to the congregation, few caught the strange remark. But Harold Blunden, on the second row, heard the question and was dumbfounded. Why shouldn’t Nathaniel Davis be on the same platform with her? he questioned silently. Davis was a leader, even if he was a relatively new Adventist. He was editor of the Australian Adventist magazine Signs of the Times. He had every right to be on that platform!

Suddenly Nathaniel Davis stood to his full height, towering above the diminutive American. He scowled and gave her the most hateful look one human could ever give another. He then turned on his heel, stalked off the platform, down the aisle, and out the chapel door.

Unperturbedly, Ellen White turned back to the pulpit, adjusted her manuscript and shawl, looked up, smiled, opened her mouth, and the words finally came. The people sat as if entranced for the hour and a quarter during which she spoke. At the close they crowded around her at the door to meet her personally.

Young Harold did not head for the door. He headed for the platform instead. He just had to know the meaning of this strange development. He hadn’t heard a word of the entire sermon, because his thoughts bumped against themselves in his head. And this is what he learned.

Nathaniel Davis had problems—serious problems—and Ellen White had written him a five-page letter on August 16, {42} 1897. She had started it at 3:00 a.m. Paragraph 1 on page 2 began at 2:30 a.m. the day following. Then she continued the letter two days later. Mrs. White spelled out Brother Davis’s problems with money, spiritualism, and loose morals. (“Your course is immoral. You are bringing disgrace upon the cause of truth. . . . You are a dangerous man to be left to yourself anywhere.”)36 As a mother might plead with a wayward son, Ellen White urged this new convert to mend his errant ways. But he had not heeded her advice. That Sabbath afternoon he was a living representative of the kingdom of darkness. God would not allow His ambassador from the kingdom of light to speak until Nathaniel Davis was banished!37

“I never had any problems or questions about Ellen White after that!” Harold Blunden mused after telling me this story. “Some doubted and disbelieved there in Australia, but my mind was made up. And I never had occasion to change it! I know. I was there. I was an eyewitness.”

Blunden died shortly after telling me his story, at the age of 89, never knowing what had happened to Nathaniel Davis. Nor did I, until some years later. One day one of my colleagues, knowing of my interest in the rest of the story, came into my office. He excitedly waved a document in his hand.
When Ellen White left Australia in 1900, the church workers gave her a large loose-leaf autograph album as a farewell gift. Each page had been inscribed by someone whom Mrs. White’s nine-year ministry on that continent had blessed. And one of the pages was in the handwriting of Nathaniel Davis!

“It affords me the most sincere pleasure to have the privilege of putting on record my appreciation of Sister E. G. White’s work and my gratitude to my heavenly Father for the messages sent through her to His people.

“The faithful witness, thus bourne, revealed to me the means whereby the bondage of Satan was broken when, owing to the influence of spiritualism, I had well nigh become a spiritual wreck.
“I have every reason to be positive in my confidence in Sister E. G. White as a true prophet. {43}
“May the Lord of love, and mercy, grace and truth, guide and guard her safely to the end, and lengthen her days so that she may continue to warn, admonish, and strengthen the remnant people of God.

“[signed] N. A. Davis
“Geelong, Victoria, Australia
“6 August 1900”38

It is as true today as it was when King Jehoshaphat first uttered the words about 850 B.C.: “Believe in the Lord your God, so shall ye be established; believe his prophets, so shall ye prosper” (2 Chronicles 20:20).

=======================================
FootNotes:
31. Denton E. Rebok, “The Spirit of Prophecy in the Remnant Church,” in Our Firm Foundation (Washington, D.C.: Review and Herald Pub. Assn., 1953), vol. 1, pp. 233, 234. This story came to Arthur L. White through veteran pioneer leader George B. Starr; White subsequently shared it orally with Rebok

37. Harold Blunden related this story in part of his sermon “Guidance for Earth’s Last Generation,” published by the White Estate for the annual Spirit of Prophecy Emphasis Day, April 12, 1958, pp. 6, 7.

38. This autograph album is today preserved in the archives of the White Estate main office in Silver Spring, MD and is viewable there

[Johann]

When it was John's turn to introduce Danny, danny was looking hard into John's eyes. John held the gaze as if to say, "What now?" or "Is everything OK?"

It is obviously straining for them.

And all the "Thank you's" from Doug and Dwight thanking 3ABN for the production help.

Wouldn't it be a shame if "the crash" came furing this week of such wonderful programs on "MAP"?!

There is a strong indication you may have heard a swan song.

[simplysaved]

The reason that many (as is becoming clear in some posts spread out) share serious concerns because the nature of some to many posts have been just that...instead of praying for deliverance of whatever issues are there....This point in general is one of the areas that we as a SDA church have failed miserably on...we seem to be praying less and less for those that are struggling---or for those that are in need of healing. Because the bottom line is only God has been perfect and blameless in everything that has happened...and not any of the players, in one way or another.

In this sense we as a church share in responsibility for all that has happened. We dropped the ball...with all of the talk about our church being judgemental and how we should act when various situations arise, what I have read has been exactly that--judgemental and unforgiving---making fun at the blows and set-backs. That speaks volumes to the testimony and witness.....and relationship with Christ.

It would be something to see threads in this forum (and I have read a few posts) where those who have been wronged have and/or are working through their hurt---at the sole expense of Satan, and not a person.

You make some excellent points here. And it is certainly true that being involved in anything that is negative can have negative influences in one's own life .... and this is true even when the cause for which one fights is right and good. I have felt it necessary a few other times in my life to work earnestly against something .... and it has always had negative effects on my life .... both psychologically and physically .... but never spiritually. In order to endure I find it necessary to walk very closely with God and to focus on the positive good that can be accomplished .... so I come through times like these spiritually stronger than before even though I am drained both emotionally and physically.

I really don't know of anyone here who is "excited" about bringing Danny down. I think there are a great number of us who will feel a great relief when not only Danny, but ALL of the wrongdoers are "brought down" and the threats, not only to individuals, but to our church as a whole have been removed and restitution and healing can get underway. But "excitement" .... I think that is not a good word for the feelings. I'm not at all sure that you even dimly comprehend the pain and suffering that many have endured and are still enduring now.... or you would not even suggest such a word as "excitement". I do think that there will be many who will rejoice when this episode has been successfully concluded. I think scripture gives us permission .... and even injunctions .... to rejoice when our enemies have been destroyed and their victims have been exhonerated. Let's not deny them those opportunities to praise God with a joyful heart for His deliverance.

The act of forgiveness and self-accountability will bring about the healing that many seek....and not the removal of Danny Shelton. JMHO

This post has been edited by simplysaved: Sep 20 2006, 02:41 AM

[Green Cochoa]

...
In this sense we as a church share in responsibility for all that has happened. We dropped the ball...with all of the talk about our church being judgemental and how we should act when various situations arise, what I have read has been exactly that--judgemental and unforgiving---making fun at the blows and set-backs. That speaks volumes to the testimony and witness.....and relationship with Christ.
...
The act of forgiveness and self-accountability will bring about the healing that many seek....and not the removal of Danny Shelton. JMHO

And how might the following events from the Bible be seen?

Peter condemning Ananias and Sapphira for their secret sin (their sin was not a "public" one)
Nathan the prophet dealing straightly with David over Bathsheba
Achan's secret sin, discovered and dealt with by the leadership (after innocents died)
David's sin in numbering the people (the people were punished instead of David)

In each case above, sin was dealt with STRICTLY. Whether the sins were public, or private, God dealt with them either directly, or through others under His influence (e.g. the church leadership). Some of those sins would seem small in our eyes today...but not so with God. In three of the four, God required the death of innocent people for the sin of the perpetrator. So, I guess, my question is, how many will perish as a result of sins committed in such a responsible position as the leadership of 3ABN? And should the church body, especially the leadership, be duty-bound to deal with those sins, lest many more perish while the rottenness festers? I agree, that God is a forgiving God, but there is a limit to His forbearance.

I have lived in countries where disfellowship is unheard of, due to the culture and the taboo of "losing face"--which essentially amounts to a great sin of pride...pride which must be protected like an open sore against any insult. However, the churches also seem to be weaker for the lack of cleansing from many open sins. I feel we would do well to study Christ's counsel through the prophets and apostles of the Bible as to how to keep our church a safe haven for souls seeking truth. May we never fear to call sin by its right name. And may we not forget that "whom the Lord loveth, he correcteth." ...or should I be quoting "love covereth all sins"? (Prov. 3:12, 10:12)

[SoulEspresso]

I have lived in countries where disfellowship is unheard of, due to the culture and the taboo of "losing face"--which essentially amounts to a great sin of pride...pride which must be protected like an open sore against any insult. However, the churches also seem to be weaker for the lack of cleansing from many open sins. I feel we would do well to study Christ's counsel through the prophets and apostles of the Bible as to how to keep our church a safe haven for souls seeking truth. May we never fear to call sin by its right name. And may we not forget that "whom the Lord loveth, he correcteth." ...or should I be quoting "love covereth all sins"? (Prov. 3:12, 10:12)

How about this? "Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them." Ephesians 5:11.

As for pride, well, isn't it the quintessential Adventist sin? Our "original sin"? From the moment we began, even before 1844, we thought of ourselves as being somehow "different" (we wouldn't say "better" but that's what a person thinks who wants to be different). Any group that self-identifies as "the remnant people of God" is in serious spiritual danger. Not necessarily wrong, mind you, but deep peril nonetheless.

I say that as a pastor. I just got done with seminary in Andrews 18 months ago. You'd think that a place where men and women are learning to serve God in public ministry would be a deeply spiritual place--I can assure you it's not. I believe it's the arrogance--not as much on the part of the faculty, not at all. But we students ... God help us. Regardless of whether we were "conservative" or "liberal" we all knew we were "right" and therefore "different" (read: "superior") to the others.

So when I'm calling out the sin of arrogance and pride so rampant among "God's remnant people," don't think ill of me. I'm calling out my own cherished sin.

It seems to me that some are excited to "bring Danny down". If all of this is true, yes, he needs to be held accountable. But let's make sure in the process of all of this we don't lose our salvation....

I really don't know of anyone here who is "excited" about bringing Danny down. I think there are a great number of us who will feel a great relief when not only Danny, but ALL of the wrongdoers are "brought down" and the threats, not only to individuals, but to our church as a whole have been removed and restitution and healing can get underway. But "excitement" .... I think that is not a good word for the feelings. I'm not at all sure that you even dimly comprehend the pain and suffering that many have endured and are still enduring now.... or you would not even suggest such a word as "excitement". I do think that there will be many who will rejoice when this episode has been successfully concluded. I think scripture gives us permission .... and even injunctions .... to rejoice when our enemies have been destroyed and their victims have been exhonerated. Let's not deny them those opportunities to praise God with a joyful heart for His deliverance.

I'm not at all close to the situation at 3ABN, so I can't speak personally to that level of pain. My own emotions, reading this stuff, seeing Danny's pale, drawn face last night on MAP, do border on excitement. That's probably inappropriate.

If indeed, though, it happens that
1) wrongdoers who have been hiding deliberate and damaging sin, hurting others, are brought down
2) the church is led into greater transparency and honesty
3) our satellite channels are all theologically accountable and
3) the out-and-out idolatry ("celebrity worship") of the faces on 3ABN, by people I go to church with, ends ....

... can I not rejoice?

Even more, can I not rejoice at the relief of the pain of the people on these boards who have been hurt?

It is probably a sin to rejoice at the pain of those who will be brought down, but then such sins were enshrined in God's word without the qualifications I've offered for my own. See Psalm 137.8-9; Psalm 139:21-22.

This post has been edited by SoulEspresso: Sep 22 2006, 09:40 AM

[PeacefulBe]

How about this? "Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them." Ephesians 5:11.

That’s a great passage. It almost seems to be calling for us to expose deeds of darkness. But then I read on a bit further and begin to wonder… just who is to expose them?

Ephesians 5:11-14 Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. For it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. But everything exposed by the light becomes visible, for it is light that makes everything visible. This is why it is said:
"Wake up, O sleeper,
rise from the dead,
and Christ will shine on you."

I don’t have an extensive education in the scriptures to be sure, but it seems that it is Christ, the Light, who will be doing the exposing. Perhaps our job is to become reflections of His Light by being connected to His kingdom. Just a thought.

How about this? "Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them." Ephesians 5:11.


So when I'm calling out the sin of arrogance and pride so rampant among "God's remnant people," don't think ill of me. I'm calling out my own cherished sin.
I'm not at all close to the situation at 3ABN, so I can't speak personally to that level of pain. My own emotions, reading this stuff, seeing Danny's pale, drawn face last night on MAP, do border on excitement. That's probably inappropriate.

If indeed, though, it happens that
1) wrongdoers who have been hiding deliberate and damaging sin, hurting others, are brought down
2) the church is led into greater transparency and honesty
3) our satellite channels are all theologically accountable and
3) the out-and-out idolatry ("celebrity worship") of the faces on 3ABN, by people I go to church with, ends ....

... can I not rejoice?

Even more, can I not rejoice at the relief of the pain of the people on these boards who have been hurt?

It is probably a sin to rejoice at the pain of those who will be brought down, but then such sins were enshrined in God's word without the qualifications I've offered for my own. See Psalm 137.8-9; Psalm 139:21-22.

I certainly am a proponent of justice and if there are those on 3abn who have hidden deliberate and damaging sin, the civil courts and the Heavenly Courts certainly must pass judgement on them. If that includes “bringing them down”, so be it. It is also the civil responsibility of those who have been wronged, who are the victims of any heinous crime to bring the charges forward to be dealt with.

Is there a difference between idolizing (celebrity worship) and revering? I think of dear H.M.S. Richards Sr. whose work as a man of God brought deep spiritual joy to so many. I revered this man! God’s character was written all over his life.

As I have said on this forum in the past, I have received spiritual blessings from some of 3abn’s programming. I do not idolize any of the presenters but I have grown to feel that some are part of my larger family, the family of God, to some degree. I have not had the face-to-face exposure that some here have, and I certainly don’t discount that wrongs very well may have been perpetrated. To this end I am constantly praying that God will intervene in a way He sees fit.

I’m not pulling the covers over my head. I’m still here on BSDA trying my best to determine what the truth is to the best of my ability.

[västergötland]

How about this? "Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them." Ephesians 5:11.

As for pride, well, isn't it the quintessential Adventist sin? Our "original sin"? From the moment we began, even before 1844, we thought of ourselves as being somehow "different" (we wouldn't say "better" but that's what a person thinks who wants to be different). Any group that self-identifies as "the remnant people of God" is in serious spiritual danger. Not necessarily wrong, mind you, but deep peril nonetheless.

I say that as a pastor. I just got done with seminary in Andrews 18 months ago. You'd think that a place where men and women are learning to serve God in public ministry would be a deeply spiritual place--I can assure you it's not. I believe it's the arrogance--not as much on the part of the faculty, not at all. But we students ... God help us. Regardless of whether we were "conservative" or "liberal" we all knew we were "right" and therefore "different" (read: "superior") to the others.

So when I'm calling out the sin of arrogance and pride so rampant among "God's remnant people," don't think ill of me. I'm calling out my own cherished sin.

This is kind of worrying IMO.
Id wonder, is this also a problem in those parts of the world where the church is growing or is the general public tollerance towards religious arrogance higher in those places?

[Clay]

PRIDE...... we have nothing on Nebuchadnezzar....

[Daryl Fawcett]

On the expose them part, there is a process to be followed, however, where do we go, what do we do when an attempt had been made to follow the process, however, tight control over the local church itself by the offender/s nullified that process?