Ellen White Quote Options

[Jewel50]

Revealing "the mistakes" of others...I just cringe when I read that kind of stuff. Yes I dont believe in revealing that so and so made a big mistake in say marrying out side of his/her faith. That to me is a mistake. But what Danny and others have done at 3ABN and are still doing it NOT considered "a mistake". These things need to be brought out in the open and something done about them. For those of you who think that TOP officials need to be doing this work well dont be so naive as to to think that our TOP officials..not all...but there are those who will just sweep the sins under the rug so to speak. And yes I can testify to that as it happend to me. However bad it was to me persoanlly it has paled in comparison to what is happeining and has happend at 3ABN. Truth will come out. Either here in this Earth or at the end of time when the unconfessed sins of ALL have not been confessed and repented of and they or me will be crying for the rocks to fall on them or me. Only then it will be to late to help anyone. Sweeping the sins under the rug like what others are hoping will happen to 3ABN will not change this fact.

Nehemiah was chosen by God because he was willing to co-operate with the Lord as a restorer. Falsehood and intrigue were used to pervert his integrity, but he would not be bribed. He refused to be corrupted by the devices of unprincipled men, who had been hired to do an evil work. He would not allow them to intimidate him into following a cowardly course. When he saw wrong principles being acted upon, he did not stand by as an onlooker, and by his silence give consent. He did not leave the people to conclude that he was standing on the wrong side. He took a firm, unyielding stand for the right. He would not lend one jot of influence to the perversion of the principles that God has established. Whatever the course others might pursue, he could say, "So did not I, because of the fear of God." {RH, May 2, 1899 par. 6}

The greatest want of the world is the want of men-- men who will not be bought or sold, men who in their inmost souls are true and honest, men who do not fear to call sin by its right name, men whose conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole, men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall. {Ed 57.3}

Those who have in the fear of God ventured out to faithfully meet error and sin, calling sin by its right name, have discharged a disagreeable duty with much suffering of feelings to themselves; but they get the sympathy of but few and suffer the neglect of many. The sympathizers are on the wrong side, and they carry out the purposes of Satan to defeat the design of God. {3T 328.2}

Cleanse the camp of this moral corruption, if it takes the highest men in the highest positions. God will not be trifled with. Fornication is in our ranks; I know it, for it has been shown me to be strengthening and extending its pollutions. There is much we will never know; but that which is revealed makes the church responsible and guilty unless they show a determined effort to eradicate the evil. Cleanse the camp, for there is an accursed thing in it.

The words of God to Joshua are: "Neither will I be with you anymore, except ye destroy the accursed from among you. Up, sanctify the people, and say, Sanctify yourselves against tomorrow: for thus saith the Lord God of Israel, There is an accursed thing in the midst of thee, O Israel: thou canst not stand before thine enemies, until ye take away the accursed thing from among you." These things are written for our benefit, upon whom the ends of the world are come. {TM 428}

[Green Cochoa]

Well, to continue those messages from the Spirit of Prophecy with a stronger one on the same theme:

Joshua and the elders of Israel were in great affliction. They lay before the ark of God in most abject humility because the Lord was wroth with His people. They prayed and wept before God. The Lord spoke to Joshua: "Get thee up; wherefore liest thou thus upon thy face? Israel hath sinned, and they have also transgressed My covenant which I commanded them: for they have even taken of the accursed thing, and have also stolen, and dissembled also, and they have put it even among their own stuff. Therefore the children of Israel could not stand before their enemies, but turned their backs before their enemies, because they were accursed: neither will I be with you any more, except ye destroy the accursed from among you." {3T 264.3}

Duty to Reprove Sin

I have been shown that God here illustrates how He regards sin among those who profess to be His commandment-keeping people. Those whom He has specially honored with witnessing the remarkable exhibitions of His power, as did ancient Israel, and who will even then venture to disregard His express directions, will be subjects of His wrath. He would teach His people that disobedience and sin are exceedingly offensive to Him and are not to be lightly regarded. He shows us that when His people are found in sin they should at once take decided measures to put that sin from them, that His frown may not rest upon them all. But if the sins of the people are passed over by those in responsible positions, His frown will be upon them, and the people of God, as a body, will be held responsible for those sins. In His dealings with His people in the past the Lord shows the necessity of purifying the church from wrongs. One sinner may diffuse darkness that will exclude the light of God from the entire congregation. When the people realize that darkness is settling upon them, and they do not know the cause, they should seek God earnestly, in great humility and self-abasement, until the wrongs which grieve His Spirit are searched out and put away. {3T 265.1}
The prejudice which has arisen against us because we have reproved the wrongs that God has shown me existed, and the cry that has been raised of harshness and severity, are unjust. God bids us speak, and we will not be silent. If wrongs are apparent among His people, and if the servants of God pass on indifferent to them, they virtually sustain and justify the sinner, and are alike guilty and will just as surely receive the displeasure of God; for they will be made responsible for the sins of the guilty. In vision I have been pointed to many instances where the displeasure of God has been incurred by a neglect on the part of His servants to deal with the wrongs and sins existing among them. Those who have excused these wrongs have been thought by the people to be very amiable and lovely in disposition, simply because they shunned to discharge a plain Scriptural duty. The task was not agreeable to their feelings; therefore they avoided it. {3T 265.2}

Now that's powerful.

[PeacefulBe]

Well, to continue those messages from the Spirit of Prophecy with a stronger one on the same theme:
Now that's powerful.

Yes, I agree it is powerful!

Something that really caught my attention in the part of the quote that you highlighted was:

If wrongs are apparent among His people, and if the servants of God pass on indifferent to them, they virtually sustain and justify the sinner, and are alike guilty and will just as surely receive the displeasure of God; for they will be made responsible for the sins of the guilty.

It appears to me that she isn't speaking of those sins that are speculation or supposed but those that are "evident, clear, manifest, open, obvious, indisputable"(from my Thesaurus).

This post has been edited by PeacefullyBewildered: Sep 23 2006, 11:39 AM

[PrincessDrRe]

I noticed that Danny nor John looked liked they were not having a good experience. Also did you notice that on Friday night that Danny did not receive even a polite applause from the audience. Sat. night was better. Both Doug and Dwight were nurvous as well.

I only watched the "first" night...after the "look" of that I just couldn't be there....

.....It would be something to see threads in this forum (and I have read a few posts) where those who have been wronged have and/or are working through their hurt---at the sole expense of Satan, and not a person.

...but what if the person is allowing Satan to work through them? Then is it still not the person?

The act of forgiveness and self-accountability will bring about the healing that many seek....and not the removal of Danny Shelton. JMHO

So we should forgive him, let Linda forgive him, and let him remain as the Pastor? Little girls have been put out the church for less (I know I was). ...now what type of example is it to keep a leader like this in a high position of regard?

I really want this one explained.....

[watchbird]

The act of forgiveness and self-accountability will bring about the healing that many seek....and not the removal of Danny Shelton. JMHO[/color]

So we should forgive him, let Linda forgive him, and let him remain as the Pastor? Little girls have been put out the church for less (I know I was). ...now what type of example is it to keep a leader like this in a high position of regard?

I really want this one explained.....

I'm not sure I understand what SimplySaved was meaning either, but since she was responding to a post of mine I'll give it a try. She had highlighted this statement from that.....

"I really don't know of anyone here who is "excited" about bringing Danny down. I think there are a great number of us who will feel a great relief when not only Danny, but ALL of the wrongdoers are "brought down" and the threats, not only to individuals, but to our church as a whole have been removed and restitution and healing can get underway."

What I meant to say was that timewise ..... once the wrongdoers were "brought down" then "healing can get underway".

What it SEEMS to me is that she may have thought I meant that it was the "brought down" part that would CAUSE the healing. And in that context I could agree that "forgiveness" would be the thing that would "bring about the healing"..... not the punishment of the wrongdoers.

But as to what you were extrapolating from that..... No! Forgiving does NOT mean excusing. Forgiving does NOT mean that the guilty one is allowed to "go free" with no just consequences. And forgiving certainly does NOT mean leaving the guilty one in a position of trust and leadership which not only gives a wrong message to everyone regarding the seriousness of sin but gives the guilty one more opportunity to victimize others.

And it should be remembered that only the injured party has any right to forgive! God, of course, is ALWAYS one of the "injured parties"..... which is why he has the right (and ability) to forgive all.... and even to take their just punishment upon Himself and let the sinner go free, in the sense of the final eternal punishment or salvation. But not even God Himself "forgives" in the sense of excusing wrongdoing.

But we humans only have the "right" to fogive those who trespass against US.... individually. We have no right and no ability and no commandment to forgive those who trespass against someone else! In fact, it would be sin for us to do so..... We have seen the quotations.... both from scripture and from Ellen White.... which tell us of our obligation to identify and combat sin wherever we find it. We only find Biblical injunctions to forgive those who trespass against us.

We can bind up the wounds of the wounded. We can give them a sympathetic ear and hug. But we cannot forgive for them.

We can bring a sinner to justice. We can remove him from positions of trust. We can do all in our power to ensure that he can do no more harm. But we cannot forgive him for anything other than what he has done to us personally. It is way past time for us to learn more properly the dynamics of sin and forgiveness and justice and punishment, and stop wallowing in a "guilt pit" every time we see sin and realize that we have a responsibility to "call sin by its right name" and stand up and be counted on the side of righteousness.

[PeacefulBe]

I only watched the "first" night...after the "look" of that I just couldn't be there....

[/color]
...but what if the person is allowing Satan to work through them? Then is it still not the person?

So we should forgive him, let Linda forgive him, and let him remain as the Pastor? Little girls have been put out the church for less (I know I was). ...now what type of example is it to keep a leader like this in a high position of regard?

I really want this one explained.....

Just a point...Danny is not a pastor.

In my opinion, if a leader of a ministry has sinned but then asks for forgiveness from all he has hurt by his sin and truly repents, truly turns away from the sin and commits himself to walking with Christ he should be allowed to remain at his post. Of course there are limits as to what type of sin this would include.

If there is sin that has victimized the innocent, is against the law and needs to be prosecuted and punished, that leader should step down and walk with Christ through his incarceration.

I don't think this would apply to "a man of the cloth" though. Perhaps one who has been ordained by an organization has to be held to a higher standard because he represents more than just himself. Just a thought...probably not an answer Re.

This post has been edited by PeacefullyBewildered: Sep 23 2006, 04:22 PM

[watchbird]

Just a point...Danny is not a pastor.

In my opinion, if a leader of a ministry has sinned but then asks for forgiveness from all he has hurt by his sin and truly repents, truly turns away from the sin and commits himself to walking with Christ he should be allowed to remain at his post. Of course there are limits as to what type of sin this would include.

If there is sin that has victimized the innocent, is against the law and needs to be prosecuted and punished, that leader should step down and walk with Christ through his incarceration.

I don't think this would apply to "a man of the cloth" though. Perhaps one who has been ordained by an organization has to be held to a higher standard because he represents more than just himself. Just a thought...probably not an answer Re.

You make a good point. However..... when the denomination's "most prominent evangelist" repeatedly calls the leader of a "ministry" the "face of Adventism", and when that leader accepts the title, "the anointed one" from his co-workers, then he should be held to the same standards as any ordained pastor.

This may be one of the weaknesses of the denominational structure as it is now...... that there are no clearly defined standards of conduct or channels of accountability for Adventists who set up their own ministries. This, we should note again, is in contrast to many other independent Evangelical ministries, who have set up a very strict code of ethics for themselves, and have bound themselves together by ties of accountability and ethics, even without being part of the same "denominational structure".

We err greatly, IMO (and in the opinions of an increasing number of Adventists) in that we do not have such a system of accountability lines .... not even for our conference leaders, much less for ministries owned and operated by individuals or small groups.

[beartrap]

The act of forgiveness and self-accountability will bring about the healing that many seek....and not the removal of Danny Shelton. JMHO

"Nothing emboldens sin so much as mercy."
Timons of Athens, William Shakespear

[PrincessDrRe]

Just a point...Danny is not a pastor.

In my opinion, if a leader of a ministry has sinned but then asks for forgiveness from all he has hurt by his sin and truly repents, truly turns away from the sin and commits himself to walking with Christ he should be allowed to remain at his post. Of course there are limits as to what type of sin this would include.

If there is sin that has victimized the innocent, is against the law and needs to be prosecuted and punished, that leader should step down and walk with Christ through his incarceration.

I don't think this would apply to "a man of the cloth" though. Perhaps one who has been ordained by an organization has to be held to a higher standard because he represents more than just himself. Just a thought...probably not an answer Re.

Ok...not an "ordained" Pastor - but one who stands in a "likeness" of a Pastor/leader....

As long as this is the same "answer" that is done for all..... Young ladies (like me) and others....
Wait? You mean this isn't the way it's done for all.....
Then Danny should suffer the same fate as others (me) had to....

JMO

This post has been edited by PrincessDrRe: Sep 23 2006, 07:44 PM

[Green Cochoa]

Just a point...Danny is not a pastor.

That is only true on paper. In the sight of God he is most certainly a pastor. A pastor means "shepherd". In fact, in Spanish, it is the same word for pastor and shepherd--both "pastor". Pastor has the same root as our English word pasture, and can be thought of as one who "feeds the flock". Danny, in his position of trust, is feeding many every day with his words, whether they be truth-filled or empty. One day, he, as all of us, will have to answer God's question "where is the flock that was given thee, thy beautiful flock?" (Jer. 13:20)

"Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood." (Acts 20:28)

[paleface]

Princess Dr Re, my heart hurts for your pain. From personal experience, I notice that more harsh words and hurt comes from the Saints within the church than from those without.
Reaction: I mearly changed my membership to another Conf. thus my tithe and freewill offerings and loyalities going to said Conf.

Did you attend meetings at PM during the weekly evenings? Could you hear everything that Pastor Doug said clearly? We taped all of the messages for passing around in our area.

[justme]

Many years ago, in California, I met the Adventist artist, Elfred Lee. I have received an email that relates an experience Elfred Lee had, around the time he was doing a mural in Washington,DC. I will post it here and now.

It relates to the topic of the

VALIDITY OF ELLEN WHITE:[/b]

[b]"Subject: Who is this Ellen White?
Shared by Edwin de Kock
Artist Elfred Lee's Testimony of Rabbi Joe Kagan's Endorsement of EllenG. White "I met Rabbi Joe Kagan at Weimar Institute in CA. His family had come from Eastern Europe where his aunt had been raped while a priest stood over her with a crucifix saying, "This is what you get for killing Christ." So you can imagine the feeling of many Jews towards Christianity. American Christians are not at all like Europeans. His family moved to the US while he was young. At age 13 he debuted at Carnegie Hall as a cantor. He had a beautiful, tenor voice. He received a very high education and became a rabbi. I met him in his later years in 1978 after he had been on Ronald Reagan's staff in Sacramento as their research man. If there were any questions about any subject, he was the one that did the research and found the answers. He had a very negative attitude towards Christianity. He would never touch the New Testament. However, he knew the Jewish Old Testament (Torah) extremely well as a highly educated rabbi would. One day he got hold of a book called Patriarchs and Prophets by Ellen G. White. He read it with astonishment and wanted to know who this Ellen White was. That is when I met him. He was asking who is this Ellen G. White and what university did she attend.

We told him she only had a 3rd grade education. "Then where did she learn Hebrew?" he asked. We told him that she never knew Hebrew, but was the most prolific female writer in history and that this was only one of her books. He was amazed at her knowledge, saying that the information in this book (Patriarchs and Prophets) is Mishnaic. The Mishnah is part of the Hebrew scholarship. He said the Mishnah had only been translated into English 30 years ago and that only high-level rabbis knew this information. This is the history of my people and it is very, very accurate. He also said that you have to know Hebrew to be able to write like this because her sentence structure is not English, it's Hebrew. The rhythm the meter, the arrangement of words and expressions are not English. He said it's as if she wrote in Hebrew and it was translated into English.

My family and I developed a strong friendship with Joe, his wife and son. As we studied the Bible and some Ellen White books together one day, he said, "I am convinced that Ellen White was inspired by the same source that inspired the Hebrew prophets. I want to become a Christian. I accept Jesus Christ as my Messiah." Now, he would not have come to Christ through reading the Bible. Even though the Hebrew Bible is full of prophecies pointing to the Messiah, it took Ellen White's writings to prove to him that Jesus Christ was the fulfillment of all the Hebrew prophecies. And only then did he pick up the New Testament and read about his Jewish Messiah.

Many times I saw him cry. I was in the middle of a painting commission for a large mural called "Christ The Way of Life" for the world headquarters of the Seventh Day Adventist church in Washington DC. He became very involved with that painting. The painting had originally been inspired by James and Ellen White who had commissioned an engraver to do a black and white drawing of the subject. He confirmed to me that Ellen White's concept was very accurate on the whole plan of salvation in both the Old and New Testament, but that the engraver had misrepresented her concepts. So he helped me in many details to make the painting historically and theologically accurate; especially regarding the sanctuary section, the Hebrew writing on the cross and the last supper scene. He told me to paint Jesus and his disciples at an oriental style table, sitting on mats on the floor - not Roman couches as the medieval artists painted. Further, he said their heads would be covered and he made sure I painted the wine, the unleavened bread and the bitter herbs and their symbolism exactly as they would have been.

He approved of the whole painting and we had an unveiling ceremony at the Auburn SDA church in late 1979. He had written a song to go with the painting and sat at the organ as we unveiled the painting. He wept as he sang the words of Jesus on the cross quoting Isaiah, "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?" He sang and sang and wept and wept, his whole body shaking. There was not a dry eye in the whole church. His voice was so beautiful. The original painting hangs in the new SDA world headquarters in Silver Spring, Maryland where they have posters and bible studies of the painting. I could never have done it without the inspiration of Rabbi Kagan and Ellen White. I wish they were still alive! We were at his secret baptism in the Bear River above Sacramento on Saturday night Dec 22 1979. There were four of us present. He could not even tell his wife and son that he was now a Christian. As he came up out of the cold water praising God and singing to his new Messiah, he said, "I am now a completed Jew. I have now accepted the Old and New Testament and the Messiah that all Jewish prophets told us about!"

I was recently in Europe giving some workshops on art and some of my archeological work in the Middle East. I happened to meet a Jewish family from Israel. Shalom David was originally from Iraq and his wife from Chile. They were now attending a college in Europe where I met with quite a bit of opposition to the writings of Ellen White. This Jewish family invited me to their home for Shabbat (Friday night supper.) It was a most enjoyable occasion as his wife and beautiful children sang and celebrated the arrival of Sabbath as Jews have done for thousands of years. I told them the story of Rabbi Kagan and he got very excited. He said, "The same thing happened to me! I would have rather burned the bible then touch it! I wanted nothing to do with Christianity, but I also read the writings of Ellen White and the Spirit of God was on that woman. Her writings are as if she wrote in Hebrew. You can definitely hear the Hebrew rhythm, meter and expressions in her books. I also believe she was inspired by the same source as the Hebrew prophets. And she has helped me fall in love with Jesus Christ, my Messiah."

I just met yesterday with a rabbi living here in California - Rabbi Ben. It was a follow up to a Sabbath meal I was invited to this last Sabbath with him and a group of Adventists. He went through the whole ceremony at the meal just like Rabbi Kagan and my new friend (Shalom David) in Europe had. So yesterday we were talking over Hebrew ceremonies and how they are still effective in healing disease. Rabbi Ben told me that he has also had the same experience. He hated the bible but that Ellen White brought him to Christ and helped him read the New Testament and fall in love with the Messiah. He also told me that he had gone to visit one of the most influential rabbis in America who is in his 90s who must remain unnamed. While in this rabbi's library talking, he was scanning the many, many books on his walls and there he saw the book Patriarchs and Prophets by Ellen white. Rabbi Ben asked him about it and where he had gotten it, "Why do you have this book by a Christian author?" The rabbi said, "This as a very authoritative source on our history." I recently shared this testimony on T.V. at 3 Angels Broadcasting Network. My phone has been ringing day and night by interested people from as far away as India and Australia saying, "we want to know more about Joe Kagan and Ellen White."

The book Patriarchs and Prophets can be found in any Adventist Book Center or at the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists on old Columbia Pike, Silver Spring, Maryland. Posters of "Christ The Way of Life" can be found there. See it online at <http://www.elfredleereligiousart.com/>

The Joy of the Lord is my Strength"

Nehemiah 8:10

International Prayer Ministry

PrWarrior4Him@aol.com".

F Y I

[Seraphim7]

That is only true on paper. In the sight of God he is most certainly a pastor. A pastor means "shepherd". In fact, in Spanish, it is the same word for pastor and shepherd--both "pastor". Pastor has the same root as our English word pasture, and can be thought of as one who "feeds the flock". Danny, in his position of trust, is feeding many every day with his words, whether they be truth-filled or empty. One day, he, as all of us, will have to answer God's question "where is the flock that was given thee, thy beautiful flock?" (Jer. 13:20)

"Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood." (Acts 20:28)

Simply because he has access to a large viewing audience and gets to speak his mind, as he wills, does not make it true that, "in the sight of God a pastor". It simply means he has a willingly captive audience who may not have the discernment to turn away...

[Green Cochoa]

Simply because he has access to a large viewing audience and gets to speak his mind, as he wills, does not make it true that, "in the sight of God a pastor". It simply means he has a willingly captive audience who may not have the discernment to turn away...

Well, as God allowed Judas to be called a disciple, so he has allowed Danny to be in a leadership role for many, making him as their shepherd/pastor. Zechariah 11 talks about the shepherds who have no concern for the sheep, and refers to "foolish shepherds" and "idol shepherds". [As I said before, "shepherd" and "pastor" are synonomous.] Therefore, saying one is as a pastor makes no statement as to their qualifications for that role. In fact, perhaps we ALL are ordained of God to that role of "pastor" as a "kindom of priests" (Ex. 19:6).

However, you make a good point, and if I follow the New Testament on the subject, perhaps I should correct my wording and call Danny a "hireling". (John 10) Here again, we might all be under the same title, so there's no cause for comparison. Jesus' words should speak to each of us.

BTW--since someone is bound to ask--the similarity I seem to see between Judas and Danny is that they were both "self-called" if I understand correctly. I'm not equating them in any other sense here.

[Clay]

The bible says that Jesus called Judas... so he was a disciple.....

Luke 6:12-16 And it came to pass in those days, that he went out into a mountain to pray, and continued all night in prayer to God. (13) And when it was day, he called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles; (14) Simon, (whom he also named Peter,) and Andrew his brother, James and John, Philip and Bartholomew, (15) Matthew and Thomas, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon called Zelotes, (16) And Judas the brother of James, and Judas Iscariot, which also was the traitor.

John 6:70-71 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? (71) He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.