Is It All About 3abn?, Inquiring Minds... Options

[summertime]

color was chosen because it was easy to identify and discriminate against those who were not the "right" color.... it is definitely an artificial barrier but one that is useful for the acquiring and maintaining power.... at least that is how it has manifested itself here in the U.S.

If this is true then---SHAME ON US God does not want it to be that way.

[Denny]

If this is true then---SHAME ON US God does not want it to be that way.

The church and society has never let what God wants get in the way of a good conflict

[lurker]

So can our society change? Can our church change? Have you seen any signs of change? How can we indiviually as blacks or as whites affect change?

[Guest_vonessa_*]

When it comes to change, whatever you or I do or say here is as irrelevant as putting the bacon the wrong way in the pan. It still gets fried if there's a fire under it. It won't if it don't.

[PeacefulBe]

So can our society change? Can our church change? Have you seen any signs of change? How can we indiviually as blacks or as whites affect change?

Can small minds grow broader? Anything is possible. There will always be those of weak intellect until the Great Day.

[lurker]

Ok. There is a pan, a fire and bacon (beef bacon or stripples?). And Blacksda is a small segment of society. Can we put out the fire or take the bacon out of the pan? Should we?

I saw 9-11 as a real unifying factor of Americans for awhile. Much less so now.

I see white families with more mixed marriages. How can you not love those grandkids?

I see more affluent and professional people of color. This includes foreign doctors and professionals.

I see many stuck in poverty and self destructive behavior in both races.

I see us all having to compete more in the international marketplace.

I see many black individuals having a more positive self image.

I see more whites disapproving of "Archie Bunkerism".

I see people whose attitudes sometimes change overnight for the better or for the worse based on their current experiences with others.

And yes, my son has been "profiled at airports". All isn't positive for sure.



This post has been edited by lurker: Sep 27 2006, 09:56 AM

[meadbd]

So can our society change? Can our church change? Have you seen any signs of change? How can we indiviually as blacks or as whites affect change?

=======================================================
Change...or Revival...starts with me!

I give myself completely to Jesus and let His Holy Spirit use me and give me a kind and loving heart. I rejoice in my wonderful Savior and His blessed salvation! My one aim is to please Him in all things. 1 Cor. 13:4-8a is now my life. As 2 Cor. 5:17 says "I am a new creation...the old is gone and the new has come"! What I was I am not any more. Praising and serving my Lord is what I do...and reaching others with His mighty love and compassion. This new Christian life just can't be beat.

Even so, Come, Lord Jesus!

Bill

This post has been edited by meadbd: Sep 27 2006, 10:07 AM

[Truly Blonde]

I just want to break into this conversation long enough to say that this forum has taught me a lot---I used to wonder how all races would interact when we all get to heaven---Now, BSDA and MSDAOL have given me the answer--we will all be anxious to visit with each other in our new mansions---Yea, Clay, maybe I am being a little dramatic--you have been in inspiration to us all. I have learned a lot from you.

I am just wondering how we will find each other when we get to those mansions. Do you think the names on the mansions will say: simplysaved, Hersheys 99, Watchbird, Sister, Falliable Human being, Princess Di, Princess DrRe etc. Of course Johanns, will probably just say Johann.

TB

[caribbean sda]

I am just wondering how we will find each other when we get to those mansions. Do you think the names on the mansions will say: simplysaved, Hersheys 99, Watchbird, Sister, Falliable Human being, Princess Di, Princess DrRe etc. Of course Johanns, will probably just say Johann.

TB

...one way to find out...let's all plan to be there

[PeacefulBe]

color was chosen because it was easy to identify and discriminate against those who were not the "right" color.... it is definitely an artificial barrier but one that is useful for the acquiring and maintaining power.... at least that is how it has manifested itself here in the U.S.

When I was attending one of our West Coast SDA colleges decades ago, my roommates and I wanted to take choir together. The only class that still had three openings when we were registering was Spiritual Singers. We signed up and were warmly accepted in spite of the fact that we were of lighter pigment (one light beige, one dark beige and one medium brown. ) then the rest. We went on all of the many class performance trips to various churches around the bay area. While notice was taken of our pigmentally challenged state in each of the venues, we were welcomed and always fed afterwards, either in potlucks or in members’ homes, just like the rest of the choir.

We began to socialize outside of practice sessions and performances, sometimes hanging around the fountain and talking about the state of the world, the fear we all shared about the Zodiac killer lurking around our campus, sometimes eating together in the cafeteria.

One afternoon, one of my roommates and I were called to come up to the administration offices to speak with the head pastor of the college church. When we arrived we were surprised to find not only the pastor but the president of the college as well! They went into a long discussion about the dangerous ground we were treading upon by socializing with the other students in the Spiritual Singers. They warned us about the disdain from society we would experience if we continued to travel down the road they were sure we were on. Then, they told us that our parents were sacrificing to send us to college and had entrusted them with our welfare. What would those parents think if they found out we were in danger of becoming “unequally yoked”. With a stern warning they commanded us to cease and desist our dangerous activities.

I explained to these two men that I, for one, was not socializing romantically with anyone at the school. I also explained that I had been given permission from my socially radical father that I could fall in love with anyone I wanted to, no matter the race.

I have to admit that I was quite mortified at this confrontation. I had been under the naïve impression that our church would have a more progressive view of racism since we were all “one in Christ”. It was a wake-up call that opened my eyes quite a bit.

We continued enjoying our choir and friends for the remainder of our time with them. At the end of the year we were shocked to learn that while all of the other choir groups had coverage in the yearbook, the Spiritual Singers were not allowed to be included. This was a clear case of discrimination in my eyes and a source of deep dismay for the teacher and the choir alike.

I truly believe that things are a lot better now. I know they are in my own church. While living abroad in a developing nation the year after my college choir experience I came to the realization that culture, not color, is actually the difference between the peoples of the world. It was so easy to spot the Americans, no matter what color, because they were behaving as Americans. That was decades ago and thanks to the technological wonders of mass communication today, even the cultures are becoming so much more similar.

Of course, the state of mind of our fellow citizens determines how they treat those of different pigments as well as those of different cultures, religions...etc. IMO

This post has been edited by PeacefullyBewildered: Sep 27 2006, 11:52 AM

[lurker]

I'd be happy with just a little tent in the new earth and a sign that says, "lurker" or whatever. I'd be happy to lurk around heaven. I'd be happy to be a bug on the wall. It amazes me that when we talk about it in sabbath school, everybody thinks they will be on the inside of the New Jerusalem looking out at the lost. Nobody thinks it might be the other way around.

That will be the real us-them division. Just two groups of people- the saved and the lost.

I sure want to be there. But I tell you, if God sees that I would be one that would mess up the scene, just wipe me out now. Sure am sick of this hot mess on toast where we hurt and get hurt. Where we feel we have to put our defenses up until we get to know each other and can find out how we are perceived.



This post has been edited by lurker: Sep 27 2006, 12:05 PM

[Nuggie]

When I was attending one of our West Coast SDA colleges decades ago, my roommates and I wanted to take choir together. The only class that still had three openings when we were registering was Spiritual Singers. We signed up and were warmly accepted in spite of the fact that we were of lighter pigment (one light beige, one dark beige and one medium brown. ) then the rest. We went on all of the many class performance trips to various churches around the bay area. While notice was taken of our pigmentally challenged state in each of the venues, we were welcomed and always fed afterwards, either in potlucks or in members’ homes, just like the rest of the choir.

We began to socialize outside of practice sessions and performances, sometimes hanging around the fountain and talking about the state of the world, the fear we all shared about the Zodiac killer lurking around our campus, sometimes eating together in the cafeteria.

One afternoon, one of my roommates and I were called to come up to the administration offices to speak with the head pastor of the college church. When we arrived we were surprised to find not only the pastor but the president of the college as well! They went into a long discussion about the dangerous ground we were treading upon by socializing with the other students in the Spiritual Singers. They warned us about the disdain from society we would experience if we continued to travel down the road they were sure we were on. Then, they told us that our parents were sacrificing to send us to college and had entrusted them with our welfare. What would those parents think if they found out we were in danger of becoming “unequally yoked”. With a stern warning they commanded us to cease and desist our dangerous activities.

I explained to these two men that I, for one, was not socializing romantically with anyone at the school. I also explained that I had been given permission from my socially radical father that I could fall in love with anyone I wanted to, no matter the race.

I have to admit that I was quite mortified at this confrontation. I had been under the naïve impression that our church would have a more progressive view of racism since we were all “one in Christ”. It was a wake-up call that opened my eyes quite a bit.

We continued enjoying our choir and friends for the remainder of our time with them. At the end of the year we were shocked to learn that while all of the other choir groups had coverage in the yearbook, the Spiritual Singers were not allowed to be included. This was a clear case of discrimination in my eyes and a source of deep dismay for the teacher and the choir alike.

I truly believe that things are a lot better now. I know they are in my own church. While living abroad in a developing nation the year after my college choir experience I came to the realization that culture, not color, is actually the difference between the peoples of the world. It was so easy to spot the Americans, no matter what color, because they were behaving as Americans. That was decades ago and thanks to the technological wonders of mass communication today, even the cultures are becoming so much more similar.

Of course, the state of mind of our fellow citizens determines how they treat those of different pigments as well as those of different cultures, religions...etc. IMO

Unbelievable...

[Clay]

thanks for sharing PB, you put your finger on the one fear that many white people have both now (in some places) and historically... that would be that their daughters may become romantically with a black male..... and that just won't do.....

[Brenda]

thanks for sharing PB, you put your finger on the one fear that many white people have both now (in some places) and historically... that would be that their daughters may become romantically with a black male..... and that just won't do.....

How have black families felt in the past when their daughters became involved with white males?

I have a racially mixed family - my 2 elder children are adopted from Southern Asia, the younger 2 are white caucasian. My (second) husband is Indonesian/Chinese - one grandson is half Samoan. I believe that colour is not an issue for me.

But the stresses could arise with different cultures/values if the association is too close. The Polynesian way of often sharing anything requested with the extended family would not go down well with me, and I tend not to react happily when males assume they are superior by virtue of their gender.

Is colour seen as a marker for values/a way of life?

[lurker]

I think poverty and desertion were always the fear. That the grandparents would be financially and physically responsible for the raising of the children. Many a child of an unmarried or deserted mother was raised as her sibling to hide "her shame" from outsiders and protect the familiy's pride. It was harder to do that with mixed children.

This post has been edited by lurker: Sep 27 2006, 03:15 PM