The Investigator Of 3abn Options

[husbandoftheyear]

Oh, and whoever is doing this investigation better have a whole lot of creditability.

Well said...

[Panama_Pete]

Is anyone here considering that Danny may have just weathered the worst of the storm? Has the worse of his misdeeds alright come to light? If so, Danny is still standing. They just finished Net 2006, the major independent ministry have not abandoned 3ABN, neither has the official church. After all folks his divorce and remarriage is really old news now. All these letters going back and forward that we have pinned are really not much more than hearsay, all with questionable motives by the authors.

For all of you hoping for Danny’s demise, that somehow this investigation will tip the scale and bring a quick end to this saga, well I suggest you pray that the investigator finds a smoking gun somewhere in there and not more of the same that we have here. Or else my prediction is that Danny will come of this a little beat up, but him and his ministry still intact. Oh, and whoever is doing this investigation better have a whole lot of creditability.

The disintegration of the 3ABN ministry is not now, and never has been, the focus. I know there has been some speculation by some people about the facts possibly being capable of bringing down the ministry.

Notice that Danny is listed on the cover of the November 3ABN World as "President and Founder." In my book, Danny is a Co-founder, and can never be anything more than that. Historical facts are historical facts. I believe in complete honesty, not bending the truth. That's part of a different, but larger, focus than "bringing down" a ministry.

November issue in PDF here:

http://www.3abn.org/news.cfm

If anyone is expecting the walls of Jerico to come crumbling down - in reference to 3ABN - it probably isn't going to happen.

What you really will see is the slow marginalization of 3ABN in the Wikipedia sense of the word:

"Marginalisation or marginalization (US) refers to the overt or covert trends within societies whereby those perceived as lacking desirable traits or deviating from the group norms tend to be excluded by wider society and ostracized as undesirables."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marginalization

Marginalization is why there is a photo of the entire "Board of Directors" in the November issue. They're trying to make the political statement: "Marginalization of 3ABN is not happening." Mr. Danny is shown, as best as possible, surrounded by their version of "the captains of industry," rather than Shelton being portrayed isolated and "cut out of the herd" like a diseased cow.

The November issue of 3ABN World goes on to mention Jim Gilley as crediting the growth of the SDA Church, in good part, to Danny Shelton.

The issue mentions 3ABN's working relationship with the General Conference, etc. When you read the magazine as a whole, the political statement being assembled is: "Yes, Danny and the Adventist Church are together as one."

But 3ABN and the Church are not one. I think the exact opposite is happening. I think the November issue of 3ABN World is trying to respond to that underlying question.

As for the MAP (Most Amazing Prophecies) Seminar:

http://www.amazingfacts.org/news/read_news.asp?ID=109

There were 2,025 sites and "more than 2,050 people have requested our free offers." That's about one "free offer" per site. And you know the sponsor at each site is likely to have requested an average of one. That leaves 25 requests unaccounted for.

So, this may have been a successful seminar, but a colossal failure as far as time, expense, and volunteer hours are measured.

Many of these MAP sites were in peoples' homes. The majority of SDA Churches did not sign up for the seminar that was sponsored, in part, by 3ABN. The vast majority of Adventists never saw Danny and Melody singing on the very last night of the seminar from the Berrien Springs Church. And, maybe, that's how it should be.

In my region, only one person (who set up shop in a coffee shop with free Internet access) participated.

If we wanted to talk about "old news," the whole idea of a 3ABN satellite seminar would be old news.

In conclusion, think marginalization, not "bring down."

[Lee]

The investigator is Mr. Gaillon Joy.

[calvin]

The disintegration of the 3ABN ministry is not now, and never has been, the focus. I know there has been some speculation by some people about the facts possibly being capable of bringing down the ministry.


In conclusion, think marginalization, not "bring down."

I never did say or imply the disintegration of 3ABN or bring it down (I assume you where speaking to me since you quoted my post). Note "Danny" the demise of Danny is what I said. Is that not what you want Pete, Danny gone? I think you have given it your best shot and he is still in control of 3ABN. Better pray for a knockout with this investigator.

The investigator is Mr. Gaillon Joy.

and just who is he or who is he working for? No Google or Adventist yearbook search hit on his name.

[Observer]

Mr. Joy is able to work independently. Yes, no search of Google, or of a SDA database will turn up any information on him.

He has a past history of exposing wrong doing in both the SDA Church, and in government, and has brought about the removal (resignation) persons in both the religious and secular world.


NOTE: My comments above are intended to give minimal information about him. They are not intended to imply anything about what will happen to 3-ABN as a result of his investigation.

[Panama_Pete]

I never did say or imply the disintegration of 3ABN or bring it down (I assume you where speaking to me since you quoted my post). Note "Danny" the demise of Danny is what I said. Is that not what you want Pete, Danny gone? I think you have given it your best shot and he is still in control of 3ABN. Better pray for a knockout with this investigator.
and just who is he or who is he working for? No Google or Adventist yearbook search hit on his name.

I said "there has been some speculation by some people." I didn't want to focus on any one poster's comments. However, since you scan many posts, I think that you, Calvin, are a good barometer of what a few other lurkers might also be thinking. Therefore, I tacked my comments onto your post just for the sake of continuity.

As participants in the experiment known as "free speech" we have been giving this topic our "best shot," as you say. And it has allowed others to present other points of view.

I know that Jimmy Swaggart, to this day, enjoys a loyal following, regardless of how many times his name has appeared in the newspapers (for whatever reason). In the case of Jimmy Swaggart and others like him, would a relevant newspaper article here or there sway the opinions of his followers in any way? I don't think so. I call this phenomenon the "Swaggart Effect."

In the case of 3ABN, will a "Swaggart Effect" hold sway? I can only wait and see.

[justme]

Calvin, well put. Point well taken. I have also thought the things you mentioned. In point of fact I do not wish for the demise of Danny nor of 3ABN. I pray for reformation in whatever form God can achieve.

I do know that eventually (sooner or later) those who deny truth inside themselves will have a bitter harvest. It is also true that he brought it upon himself when he made allegations publicly and worldwide that were not only not necessary to make, but were "manufactured".

My hope is that he will submit completely, in all forms. If it is still true that God wants this ministry to be under Danny's leadership, it will stay that way. For only God knows what He wants to accomplish through this "saga".

Looking through the Old Testament, in particular, we can see "sagas" preserved for our perusal and for our edification. Most of them tragic examples of how God deals with those to whom He has given a particular task or responsibility. Some repented, some didn't. Ultimately it is not about people it is all about God! Are willing to learn from God the lessons He ha to teach us about our own ministries?

I do not enjoy seeing ANYONE suffer! For any reason! It is encouraging to see that some people who have heard lies can now also hear the truth and begin to follow truth.

And, Calvin, thank you for this forum. It has drawn me closer to God and to my fellow Christians.

I said "there has been some speculation by some people." I didn't want to focus on any one poster's comments. However, since you scan many posts, I think that you, Calvin, are a good barometer of what a few other lurkers might also be thinking. Therefore, I tacked my comments onto your post just for the sake of continuity.

As participants in the experiment known as "free speech" we have been giving this topic our "best shot," as you say. And it has allowed others to present other points of view.

I know that Jimmy Swaggart, to this day, enjoys a loyal following, regardless of how many times his name has appeared in the newspapers (for whatever reason). In the case of Jimmy Swaggart and others like him, would a relevant newspaper article here or there sway the opinions of his followers in any way? I don't think so. I call this phenomenon the "Swaggart Effect."

In the case of 3ABN, will a "Swaggart Effect" hold sway? I can only wait and see.

AS far as I can remember, only Jimmy Swaggert has publicly confessed and repented and has asked for forgiveness. Do you suppose that makes a difference in the "Jimmy Swaggert Effect"?

This post has been edited by justme: Oct 25 2006, 08:09 AM

[PeacefulBe]

Mr. Joy is able to work independently. Yes, no search of Google, or of a SDA database will turn up any information on him.
He has a past history of exposing wrong doing in both the SDA Church, and in government, and has brought about the removal (resignation) persons in both the religious and secular world.
NOTE: My comments above are intended to give minimal information about him. They are not intended to imply anything about what will happen to 3-ABN as a result of his investigation.

Well, actually, I found one Google hit.

[Panama_Pete]

Calvin, well put. Point well taken. I have also thought the things you mentioned. In point of fact I do not wish for the demise of Danny nor of 3ABN. I pray for reformation in whatever form God can achieve.

I do know that eventually (sooner or later) those who deny truth inside themselves will have a bitter harvest. It is also true that he brought it upon himself when he made allegations publicly and worldwide that were not only not necessary to make, but were "manufactured".

My hope is that he will submit completely, in all forms. If it is still true that God wants this ministry to be under Danny's leadership, it will stay that way. For only God knows what He wants to accomplish through this "saga".

And, Calvin, thank you for this forum. It has drawn me closer to God and to my fellow Christians.
AS far as I can remember, only Jimmy Swaggert has publicly confessed and repented and has asked for forgiveness. Do you suppose that makes a difference in the "Jimmy Swaggert Effect"?

I don't know the answer to this last question, whether Swaggart's public confession has had an effect. I would have to think that, in 1988, that his request for forgiveness did have an effect for many of his followers. His problems did not seem to end at that time, (in 1988 according to these links posted below) and his ministry may have shrunken quite a bit, but it still continues.

As an aside, when you look at the links, notice how amazingly lucrative this televangelist business has become. For instance (last link) John Hagee's total compensation package was $1.25 million in 2001. Just imagine walking home one day with a sack of $1,250,000 in cash.

Money can be an instrument for good, but it can also lead a person down the wrong road. Too often it seems, a TV ministry becomes the televangelist's personal piggy bank, and the huge amount of money becomes a barrier to the conversion and repentance you mentioned.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_tel...gelist_scandals

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Swaggart

http://www.rickross.com/reference/tv_preac...preachers7.html

[justme]

Has anyone read a book by Patti Roberts, "From Ashes to Gold"?

"There is nothing covered that will not be revealed, and hidden that will not be known." (Matthew 10:26)
"But evil men and impostors will proceed from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived." (2 Timothy 3:13)

"The past - man's past - is mainly a grim struggle for survival. But there have been moments when a few voices have spoken up . . . and these rare moments have made the history of man a glorious thing. I refuse to believe it's dead and gone. We've had our dark ages before and this is just another one of them. All it needs is for someone to show you the way out. I'm only a tinkering mechanic but I'm sure there must be this hidden spark in one of your people. If only I can kindle that spark . . . My coming here will have some meaning . . ."
(The Time Machine; 1960 motion picture based on the novel by H.G. Wells)

"Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and show my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins." (Isaiah 58:1; KJV)

"Agnus Dei, qui tollis peccata mundi, miserere nobis"

("Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world, have mercy on us")

[Johann]

Thank you, justme, for those encouraging words. They show us that we must not give up in our prayers for justice and a church that is getting prepared for the final battle in the history of this sinful world.

This post has been edited by Johann: Oct 26 2006, 11:34 PM

[Ralph]

And, Calvin, thank you for this forum. It has drawn me closer to God and to my fellow Christians.

Praise God for your testimony.

Maybe what we see happening here is just a foretaste of bigger things to come. Events will unfold that will shake our timbers, and we will either draw closer to God and to each other or will get discouraged and lose out. So many have indicated that their spirituality is deepening.

Is this what Ellen White is describing when she wrote about being sealed? "...it is not any seal or mark that can be seen, but a settling into the truth, both intellectually and spiritually, so they cannot be moved,..."

[Panama_Pete]

Has anyone read a book by Patti Roberts, "From Ashes to Gold"?

Not yet, but Patti Roberts has some interesting things to say. I'll find a copy of her book and read it.
Thanks, Justme, for the suggestion.


"A 1983 book by [Richard] Roberts' first wife Patti, Ashes to Gold, gave an interesting glimpse into the inner workings of the Roberts empire. A telling quote from that book:

"I know a lot of people were blessed and sincerely ministered to by what we sang on TV, and by what we said - but the overall picture, I’m afraid, seemed to say, ‘If you follow our formula, you’ll be like us,’ rather than, ‘If you do what Jesus says, you’ll be like Him.’ It was certainly more exciting to follow us, because to follow us was to identify with success, with glamor, with a theology that made everything good and clean and well-knit together. To identify with Jesus, however, meant to identify with the cross."



This post has been edited by Panama_Pete: Oct 27 2006, 04:35 PM

[Skyhook]

Perhaps this is not exactly on topic, but someone said in Sabbath School that they heard on 3abn or read in thier magazine, that someone called in to 3abn and kept repeating in a growling, gutteral voice, "get off the air, get off the air, I want you off the air," then a normal sounding voice came on and said pleadingly, "help me, help me, I need help." Of course the implication is that the person is possesed by a demon and the Devil wants 3abn off the air. I'm not saying it didn't happen or that is was faked, but the timing is interesting and certainly convenient under the circumstances. Did anyone hear any thing about this?

[västergötland]

http://www.3abn.org/pdf/world/3ABN-World-2006-11.pdf
Page 12.