Damage Control, Emails Options

[September]

Did any of Tommy's alleged victim's parents come forward and press charges against Tommy? I know that according to the letter from R. Clem, his mother was a staunch supporter of Tommy. However, I do find it hard to understand that not one of these many boy's parents ever came forward and/or pressed charges--or did they and I'm missing something here?

[PeacefulBe]

Did any of Tommy's alleged victim's parents come forward and press charges against Tommy? I know that according to the letter from R. Clem, his mother was a staunch supporter of Tommy. However, I do find it hard to understand that not one of these many boy's parents ever came forward and/or pressed charges--or did they and I'm missing something here?

I am hoping that Pastor Glenn Dryden can provide this information for us. Perhaps Bob or sister can ask him and fill us in if and when Clay reopens the thread.

[Pickle]

I am hoping that Pastor Glenn Dryden can provide this information for us. Perhaps Bob or sister can ask him and fill us in if and when Clay reopens the thread.

My understanding is that there was a criminal investigation at some point prior to Tommy's departure to Dunn Loring, Virginia. So somewhere maybe between 1985 and 1995 these things were looked into, if I recall correctly what Pastor Dryden told me.

One trouble is that it is very embarassing for an alleged victim to come forward and admit that this kind of thing happened to them. And then to go further than that and press charges and testify, well, what do you expect? Would you have done differently in such a situation?

Why is the Catholic Church having so many cases resurrected after so long? Why did it take decades for some to approach the authorities? Why when it was brought to the attention of church authorities did the families consent to hush it up?

I can't relate to that kind of delay. But then, I was never vicitmized, so how can I judge.

And we must remember that when this initially came out, a sizable portion of the church sided with Tommy and in essence accused the kids of lying, even though on a number of occasions, I am told by Dryden and Clem, people caught Tommy doing what he shouldn't have been doing.

[Clay]

this thread has been reopened, and merged with the thread titled "Question." There are some valid points that should be made, and I hope that they will be made as opposed to wallowing in the specifics of the allegations.....in other words, someone give us the bigger picture and only detail if needed.....

[Pickle]

this thread has been reopened, and merged with the thread titled "Question." There are some valid points that should be made, and I hope that they will be made as opposed to wallowing in the specifics of the allegations.....in other words, someone give us the bigger picture and only detail if needed.....

Okay, Clay. Here it goes.

There have been been a lot of allegations made against Danny that are based on he said, she said, or the testimony of hostile witnesses, parties that are anything but neutral or positive toward Danny. And that makes what they say less credible.

Dr. Thompson, on the other hand, is very credible since he is on Danny's side. And we have him in writing that Danny misled him, intentionally or unintentionally. Hate to say it, but it is a possibility that we have caught Danny in an obvious lie, one that the average person can understand and feel repulsed about, and thus people that have a hard time believing that everything isn't right in Thompsonville are led to consider the possibility that that just might be the unfortunate case.

But in order for the argument to be convincing, the discrepancies between his account of things and reality must be adequately demonstrated, if they exist, as well as the claim that he pressured the alleged victims, their families, and their pastor into silence.

Here's where it gets rough: A conference secretary said that if this happened in his conference, his conference couldn't survive. I'm certain he meant financially. Imagine the lawsuits Danny has potentially opened up the Il. Conf. to if this is all true.

A retired conference secretary and pastor yesterday told me that this issue, if genuine, should be pushed all it can be pushed, for it will pave the way for all other issues to finally get resolved.

This is anything but fun.

[Clay]

thank you for that summary..... let's then unpack that..... what has been said by 3abn or the Sheltons that has been shown to be a lie?

[PeacefulBe]

My understanding is that there was a criminal investigation at some point prior to Tommy's departure to Dunn Loring, Virginia. So somewhere maybe between 1985 and 1995 these things were looked into, if I recall correctly what Pastor Dryden told me.

One trouble is that it is very embarassing for an alleged victim to come forward and admit that this kind of thing happened to them. And then to go further than that and press charges and testify, well, what do you expect? Would you have done differently in such a situation?

Why is the Catholic Church having so many cases resurrected after so long? Why did it take decades for some to approach the authorities? Why when it was brought to the attention of church authorities did the families consent to hush it up?

I can't relate to that kind of delay. But then, I was never vicitmized, so how can I judge.

And we must remember that when this initially came out, a sizable portion of the church sided with Tommy and in essence accused the kids of lying, even though on a number of occasions, I am told by Dryden and Clem, people caught Tommy doing what he shouldn't have been doing.

If many teenagers feel like a pimple on the face is flashing their abnormality in neon, can you imagine how hard it would be for them to make public that they fell for the wiles of a predator?

Then weigh also how the crafty predator can misdirect adults with his superior sophistication and the implied sanctity of his position and easily get them to take his side over the testimony of immature adolecents.

In my own experiences:
1. At 4 I tried to tell my parents that a family member was doing things to me that scared and hurt me but they couldn't or wouldn't understand. So the abuse kept happening for 5 more years. It became "normal" to me and I didn't question if it was wrong until decades later. When I tried to address it in my 30's I was shocked by the denial that was still in play.
2. At 13, when a step-grandfather assaulted me I had a stronger voice and my parents believed me but the rest of the family got angry and called me a liar. That all changed when he nearly killed my grandmother then fled the country. The police told her that he was a wanted serial child molester that had victimized many children.
3. At 17, on a church youth campout when a married youth pastor isolated me in a beautiful valley, hugged and kissed me like he was my date I was embarrassed, scared and never said a word because I knew no one would believe me.

Perhaps these experiences can help some of you understand why these things sometimes go unreported. In recent years the victims are more likely to be listened to and believed but it is still an uphill battle especially where the predator is "a man of God" sometimes with a dauntingly large institution standing behind him.

[PeacefulBe]

------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Gailons last email to me. "We got a problem"
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 08:26:23 -0600
From: Walt Thompson
CC: Danny Shelton

Dear Bob,

The allegations against Tommy were made about 30 years ago. They were reported to the proper authorities. No physical actions ever occured. Tommy appologized to the kids and offered recompence. The DA said there was no case. No restrictions were ever imposed. Tommy is employed by 3abn with full board approval, knowing the facts. The author of a book, "These kind don't change, do they?" was interviewed on 3abn recently. You may wish to purchase that book and read itl (The sad thing about this is that the ones who are loudest in spreading falsehood know this, yet continue to agitate and keep the fires burning.)

The author of the above-referenced book wrote of his journey into a life of homosexuality, how he was told he would never change and how he ultimately gained the victory over the lifestyle through the power of God. A person who has experienced conflict in his sexual identity is far different than a serial sexual predator. While sin is sin and any degree of it separates us from God, drawing comparisons between the two is apples and oranges.

[Pickle]

thank you for that summary..... let's then unpack that..... what has been said by 3abn or the Sheltons that has been shown to be a lie?

Well, Clay, according to Walt Thompson, Danny told him the allegations were 30 years old, and yet Walt had received a letter claiming inappropriate behavior in a congregation Tommy pastored through about 2000. I think most people would call that a lie.

Thompson claimed that Danny told him that Dryden was to blame because of some unrelated feud. Blame for what? The 30-year-old allegations? The two men hadn't met yet.

My two letters to Danny outline such problems. I have now given him 15 questions regarding this affair in those letters, and he opted not to answer one in his reply today.

Anyone reading those letters can clearly see there are some problems with accuracy, and many have concluded that there are problems with honesty as well.

One thing that Walt claimed that Danny told him was that there was no physical action. Is that claim believable in light of the 2004 Roger Clem letter? I think not. And that is why people need to be able to read his letter and make their own judgment about who is telling the truth.

How's that for a brief unpacking?

This post has been edited by Pickle: Dec 5 2006, 06:50 PM

[Richard Sherwin]

PB thanks for having the courage to tell your story. It does shed relevent light on what goes on in the mind of a victim of sexual abuse.

Richard

If many teenagers feel like a pimple on the face is flashing their abnormality in neon, can you imagine how hard it would be for them to make public that they fell for the wiles of a predator?

Then weigh also how the crafty predator can misdirect adults with his superior sophistication and the implied sanctity of his position and easily get them to take his side over the testimony of immature adolecents.

In my own experiences:
1. At 4 I tried to tell my parents that a family member was doing things to me that scared and hurt me but they couldn't or wouldn't understand. So the abuse kept happening for 5 more years. It became "normal" to me and I didn't question if it was wrong until decades later. When I tried to address it in my 30's I was shocked by the denial that was still in play.
2. At 13, when a step-grandfather assaulted me I had a stronger voice and my parents believed me but the rest of the family got angry and called me a liar. That all changed when he nearly killed my grandmother then fled the country. The police told her that he was a wanted serial child molester that had victimized many children.
3. At 17, on a church youth campout when a married youth pastor isolated me in a beautiful valley, hugged and kissed me like he was my date I was embarrassed, scared and never said a word because I knew no one would believe me.

Perhaps these experiences can help some of you understand why these things sometimes go unreported. In recent years the victims are more likely to be listened to and believed but it is still an uphill battle especially where the predator is "a man of God" sometimes with a dauntingly large institution standing behind him.

[princessdi]

I disagree, PB. As you said, sin, is isn, especialy in God's eyes. Are those not the eye through which we christians should view it? Aslo the reason this book gets so much attention is that just like pedaphiles, homosexual are seen as someone who con never,ever "overcome" their sin. The best they can do is not to "practice it".. In fact, they are often lumped in as one in the same, as we most often view homosexuals. especially men as taking every opportunity to "turn out" a young boy.

hor of the above-referenced book wrote of his journey into a life of homosexuality, how he was told he would never change and how he ultimately gained the victory over the lifestyle through the power of God. A person who has experienced conflict in his sexual identity is far different than a serial sexual predator. While sin is sin and any degree of it separates us from God, drawing comparisons between the two is apples and oranges.

[watchbird]

I disagree, PB. As you said, sin, is isn, especialy in God's eyes. Are those not the eye through which we christians should view it? Aslo the reason this book gets so much attention is that just like pedaphiles, homosexual are seen as someone who con never,ever "overcome" their sin. The best they can do is not to "practice it".. In fact, they are often lumped in as one in the same, as we most often view homosexuals. especially men as taking every opportunity to "turn out" a young boy.

Excuse me Di... but you are confusing or conflating two separate ideas and/or conditions here.

Having a homosexual orientation is not sin. That is only a physical condition in which the electrical "wiring" having to do with sexual attractions has a reversed polarity. It is NOT sin to have such a reversed polarity. The attraction that comes from the same gender to the homosexual is no more sin than is the attraction between male and female who experience heterosexual attractions. The attraction sets up desire... but desire is not sin... check it out with James. Desire can become temptation.... but temptation is not sin either. Only when one yields to temptation does one commit sin. And the homosexual can overcome temptation in the same way that the heterosexual can overcome temptation.

One does not require a heterosexual to get to the place where he feels no attraction for the opposite sex before he can claim that he has overcome temptation. Neither should one require that a homosexual comes to the place where his orientation... the direction from which his sin comes... changes so that it comes from the other direction... or doesn't come at all. The homosexual is an overcomer when he ceases to allow temptation to lead him to sin.

Another mistake you are making here... and one which is extremely hurting to the homosexual who is not even tempted in THAT area... is that of equating homosexuality with pedaphilia. They are NOT the same... BOTH heterosexual males and homosexual males can be pedaphiles... the only difference is whether they molest and abuse little girls or little boys.

And experience has taught us that pedaphilia is not something which we can ever conclude has "gone away". And thus to protect our children the laws have been made which say that no matter how long a man stays "clean" he should NEVER be allowed around children. Period.

[PeacefulBe]

I disagree, PB. As you said, sin, is isn, especialy in God's eyes. Are those not the eye through which we christians should view it? Aslo the reason this book gets so much attention is that just like pedaphiles, homosexual are seen as someone who con never,ever "overcome" their sin. The best they can do is not to "practice it".. In fact, they are often lumped in as one in the same, as we most often view homosexuals. especially men as taking every opportunity to "turn out" a young boy.

I understand your point, Di, however IMO homosexual men who take every opportunity to "turn out" young boys are sexual predators in homosexual clothing. I would be very interested to hear the author's view on this situation.

I grew up around a plethora of homosexual men. Many were kind and respectful members of society others were not. One who lived with us for awhile was booted out by my mom after she found a stack of child porn pictures on his bedroom desk.

But, taking your point a step further should a recovering homosexual frequent gay bars? Should a recovering sexual predator be unsupervised around his target demographic? Should a recovering alcoholic keep alcoholic beverages at home?

Excuse me Di... but you are confusing or conflating two separate ideas and/or conditions here.

Having a homosexual orientation is not sin. That is only a physical condition in which the electrical "wiring" having to do with sexual attractions has a reversed polarity. It is NOT sin to have such a reversed polarity. The attraction that comes from the same gender to the homosexual is no more sin than is the attraction between male and female who experience heterosexual attractions. The attraction sets up desire... but desire is not sin... check it out with James. Desire can become temptation.... but temptation is not sin either. Only when one yields to temptation does one commit sin. And the homosexual can overcome temptation in the same way that the heterosexual can overcome temptation.

One does not require a heterosexual to get to the place where he feels no attraction for the opposite sex before he can claim that he has overcome temptation. Neither should one require that a homosexual comes to the place where his orientation... the direction from which his sin comes... changes so that it comes from the other direction... or doesn't come at all. The homosexual is an overcomer when he ceases to allow temptation to lead him to sin.

Another mistake you are making here... and one which is extremely hurting to the homosexual who is not even tempted in THAT area... is that of equating homosexuality with pedaphilia. They are NOT the same... BOTH heterosexual males and homosexual males can be pedaphiles... the only difference is whether they molest and abuse little girls or little boys.

And experience has taught us that pedaphilia is not something which we can ever conclude has "gone away". And thus to protect our children the laws have been made which say that no matter how long a man stays "clean" he should NEVER be allowed around children. Period.

WAtchBird,
Beautifully said!

[princessdi]

Not a problem, WB. I was only stated that which is commonly believed, not that which I believed. My only point is that they are both not given the benefit of a doubt to overcome their sin. they best they can do is to "manage" it with the help of God. I don't think I quite buy that, though. It seems to infer t hat there is some sin that is beyond God's forgiveness. I don't thinkthat pedsphelia or "practicing' homosexuality is beyond God's forgiving or restoration power. Just like it takes the power of God to over come sin, any sin, we also need the power of God to place in us His forgiveness.

I defnitely agree with the fact that anyone recovering from anything should avoid areas of great temptation.

Excuse me Di... but you are confusing or conflating two separate ideas and/or conditions here.

Having a homosexual orientation is not sin. That is only a physical condition in which the electrical "wiring" having to do with sexual attractions has a reversed polarity. It is NOT sin to have such a reversed polarity. The attraction that comes from the same gender to the homosexual is no more sin than is the attraction between male and female who experience heterosexual attractions. The attraction sets up desire... but desire is not sin... check it out with James. Desire can become temptation.... but temptation is not sin either. Only when one yields to temptation does one commit sin. And the homosexual can overcome temptation in the same way that the heterosexual can overcome temptation.

One does not require a heterosexual to get to the place where he feels no attraction for the opposite sex before he can claim that he has overcome temptation. Neither should one require that a homosexual comes to the place where his orientation... the direction from which his sin comes... changes so that it comes from the other direction... or doesn't come at all. The homosexual is an overcomer when he ceases to allow temptation to lead him to sin.

Another mistake you are making here... and one which is extremely hurting to the homosexual who is not even tempted in THAT area... is that of equating homosexuality with pedaphilia. They are NOT the same... BOTH heterosexual males and homosexual males can be pedaphiles... the only difference is whether they molest and abuse little girls or little boys.

And experience has taught us that pedaphilia is not something which we can ever conclude has "gone away". And thus to protect our children the laws have been made which say that no matter how long a man stays "clean" he should NEVER be allowed around children. Period.

[Chez]

[quote name='PeacefullyBewildered' date='Dec 5 2006, 08:53 PM' post='162324']
I understand your point, Di, however IMO homosexual men who take every opportunity to "turn out" young boys are sexual predators in homosexual clothing. I would be very interested to hear the author's view on this situation.

But, taking your point a step further should a recovering homosexual frequent gay bars? Should a recovering sexual predator be unsupervised around his target demographic? Should a recovering alcoholic keep alcoholic beverages at home?






Great point! Thanks PB for your courage in telling your story. I'm just feeling weepy over the pain and suffering that has been and is currently being intentionally inflicted on people young and old.