Did You Receive The Call? Options

[Observer]

Re: "Talking to the men on this forum - would any of you allow in your marriage an additional burden barer for your wife? Who thought so much of him that she referred to him as her burden barer (on air) in the ministry of the Lord. I saw the program myself and so did millions of others. Men what if your wife locked herself in the bathroom, bedroom, and the car and talked to the same man 4 or 5 hours everyday. Would your manhood allow you to accept that, let alone your christian walk? I mean come on folks, she stayed at his house, without her husband and then say that it was a professional relationship! Women - when have you ever stayed at your doctors house for several days??????"

O. K. I will respond. For my response, I am as was Danny: I am in my second marriage, to a woman who brought a son into the relationship. That son has a significant problem with the use of illegal drugs. All previous attempts to kick the habbit have failed. My wife is at her wits end.

Here is what I would have done:

1) I would have learned everything that I could learn about such addictions.
2) I would have recognized that my part in the treatment of my step-son was critical.
3) I would have supported my wife by going to Europe with her to seek counsel from Dr. A.
4) I would have recognized that God wanted me to give prioritiy to my family, and that if I did that, God would see that my ministry (3-ABN) continued without me.
5) I wouod have encouraged my wife to stay in Europe as long as necessary.
6) Once my wife returned to the US, without our son, I would have recognied that his treatment might have required my wife to spend hours on the telephone with our son's treatment team.

Frankly, my "manhood" would not have been challenged by any of this. My manhood is not determined by any of the above.

Let us say that the time came when my wife wanted to divorce me. This is what I would have done:

1) I would NOT have filed for a divorce. She would have had to have done it.
2) Following the divorce, I would have simply said: We reached a mutual agreement to divorce. There was no Biblical grounds on the part of either of us.
3) To close friends, I would have said: She wanted it.
4) I would have stayed single for years, if necessary, until my wife married again.
5) I would have taken responsibility for the care and nurture of my children, and worked together with my ex-wife for that goal.

How do I know that I would have done this in this hypothetical situation, because that is exactly what I did in this real situation.

NOTE: I did not have a son with an addiction problem.

Don't come to me with comments about "manhood." They do not fly with me.

Gregory Matthews

I need to clairfy a point here that may have been misunderstood.

I am divorced. The second section of my post is exactly what I did. E.g. My only public statemenet has been that we mutually agreed to a divorce, and privately I have stated that she wanted it. Those five statements apply to me.

The six statements in the first section is a statement of what I would have done, if I had been in a position such as Danny Shelton. But, no, I did not marry a woman who brought an addicted son to our marriage.

However, I am re-married, and this one has lasted for 21 years. The reallity of that marriage is that I brought two children into the family, and my new wife had to deal with them. She gave them her all, as I would have done if she had brought children into our marriage.

I appologize is anyone misunderstood.

Gregory Matthews


This post has been edited by Observer: Jan 26 2007, 12:59 PM

[Clay]

Thank you Greg.... Thats what I am talking about.... AMEN!!!!!!!!

That is how a REAL Christian man would have handled it....

[September]

Amen!! That's beautiful...what a blessing that post was to read!

[Observer]

Amen!! That's beautiful...what a blessing that post was to read!

Thank you. I will also say that the denomination worked with me. I was an ordained minister at the time of my divorce. I have maintained my credentials. I am still an ordained SDA minister.

Folks, divorce happens. Sometimes marriages cannot be put back together.

It is comming out of my personal experiences, and in dealing with divorced and divorcing members that I have never criticized Danny for either his divorce, or his remarriage. While I am clearly on the side of Linda, she knows that I refuse to critize her ex-husband in that area.

My criticism of Danny is in regard to the other issues. My criticism is also in regard to the way that Linda was treated, and the charges that I beleive to be false.

The statement has been made that we who are on Linda's side have simply accepted her lies. Yes, I am putting this in my words. As it applies to me, that is false. In the early days, Danny Shelton was corresponding with me. I had communication with others also. My belief that Linda never gave Danny Biblical grounds for the divorce is based in part upon my personal communication with Danny.

Some may ask if my communication really came from Danny, and others. Well, that was once dicussed with an attorney who contacted me regarding that correspondence. I will suggest that speaks for itself.

[Rosyroi]

You would be better off assuming than to believe what you read here. These people here have told me to find out facts so I have set about doing just that. What I found on this subject is that Brenda was almost never at the 3ABN apartments without at least 1 and many times, both, of her sisters. They always stayed together. I also found that they are known for working nonstop when they are there. They obviously have a lot of programming to do in a short period of time. They write, produce and do all the scheduling for all the kids programs..scheduling meaning that far in advance they are in touch with the parents of the children they want on the show and they try to schedule certain kids on certain days so the families can line out their time accordingly. Then they do the cooking programs which I understand, takes lots of preparation in advance. Then, they also do some decorating for sets, offices and such if there is a need. I have seen them on the air. It seems to me they work hard, have sweet spirits and in no way deserve to be drugg into this mess just to be used as another tool to try to make Danny S. look bad. AND NO, I AM NOT DANNY S AS SISTER HAS ACCUSED ME OF BEING.

I don't want to get into any silly fight... I would like to know how you got this information. Was this first hand or something someone at 3ABN told you? Where did you get your facts? Guess it is now my turn to be shredded.

[Observer]

I want to share a little more because I think it illustrates that even when people have problems that result in the breakup of a marriage, they can still relate in a civil manner.

When my ex-wife and I divorced, we both were granted joint custody of two minor children. That forced us to relate to each other for the benefit of our two children. There were times when I had to bite my tongue when speaking to my ex on the telephone, and possibly (?) :-) she had to do the same. :-)

Following my marriage, my ex and my present wife corresponded, spoke regularly on the telephone, and began sending each other gifts. That relationship progressed to the point where we (myself, my wife, our son, and our dog) would spend vacations at the home of my ex, and my oldest son. By this time, my ex was single again. We did that so we could visit my two oldest sons by my ex-wife.

Yes, the time came when we had a falling out. Things did go south for a while. But, about 18 months ago, or so, we mended the relationship. We speak to my ex wife on the average of once a week. My present wife and my ex are back to exchanging gifts. We are not yet at the place where we could stay in their home on a visit. But, part of that is medical. A little over a year ago, my ex wife was in an accident, and she is still learning to walk. But, she is making progress.

Is this what could happen in the typical case? Probably not. In many cases, it would not be good to do so. But, it is an example of what people can do if they set their mind to build a relationship. It probably took special women (both my ex and my present) to build that type of a relationship. But, one factor in being able to do so was that during the years when the children were living with me (us) (I had them once for 13 months.). We attempted to put our anger and pain behind us, and to cooperate for the good of our children. That laid a foundation for other relationships.

No, nothing is perfect now. My ex and I still have to walk on eggs at times, and bite our tongues, so to speak. But, we can be civil, and sitting at the same table having a civil conversation.
We just attempt to be mature enough to let go of sore points.

Unfortunately, when Danny and Linda divorced, . . . ..

[eye witness]

Johann, i want to say I believe that you believe what you are saying. I believe you are an honest man, I really do. I also believe that you have been duped... Doc Abrahamson is a phychologist. He is trainned to manipulate the brain, and your thinking. That is what I believe he did to you and to Linda. Investigations were made on the Doc as well... and the results were... Linda wasn't the first.
When you say you were posted on their conversations.. were you given the 5 hour version or the 5 minute report? You say Linda visited you and your wife when she was in Norway. I want to ask if she slept over at your house or at the Doctor's? The doctor's ..Right? Did she cook for you and your sick wife? She did for the doctor! Was Danny along when Linda was there, or just her girl friend. Was Nathan there EVERY TIME Linda visited the doctor? Please tell us.

You said she was forced to talk to someone "outside". That may be true, however it is never smart to tell your deepest thoughts to someone of the opposite sex... if they aren't your spouse. There are women phychologist as well. If you find another "burden Barer" it needs to be of the same sex.
Besides, the doctor was suppose to be FOR NATHAN, not Linda.
Linda and Danny were counseled by professional marriage counselors, by pastors, by friends, by everyone that could talk to her. They all said the same. You must stop your relationship with this doctor for the sake of your marriage and your part in the ministry. She refused. The doctor was advised to break it off with Linda. It was unethical for him as a professional doctor and an elder in the SDA church to have this ongoing relationship with her because it was jepordizing her marriage and ministry. He would not quit! I should say "they would not quit"

Johann, I am still waiting for the answers to the above questions, would you please?
eye witness

I want to share a little more because I think it illustrates that even when people have problems that result in the breakup of a marriage, they can still relate in a civil manner.

When my ex-wife and I divorced, we both were granted joint custody of two minor children. That forced us to relate to each other for the benefit of our two children. There were times when I had to bite my tongue when speaking to my ex on the telephone, and possibly (?) :-) she had to do the same. :-)

Following my marriage, my ex and my present wife corresponded, spoke regularly on the telephone, and began sending each other gifts. That relationship progressed to the point where we (myself, my wife, our son, and our dog) would spend vacations at the home of my ex, and my oldest son. By this time, my ex was single again. We did that so we could visit my two oldest sons by my ex-wife.

Yes, the time came when we had a falling out. Things did go south for a while. But, about 18 months ago, or so, we mended the relationship. We speak to my ex wife on the average of once a week. My present wife and my ex are back to exchanging gifts. We are not yet at the place where we could stay in their home on a visit. But, part of that is medical. A little over a year ago, my ex wife was in an accident, and she is still learning to walk. But, she is making progress.

Is this what could happen in the typical case? Probably not. In many cases, it would not be good to do so. But, it is an example of what people can do if they set their mind to build a relationship. It probably took special women (both my ex and my present) to build that type of a relationship. But, one factor in being able to do so was that during the years when the children were living with me (us) (I had them once for 13 months.). We attempted to put our anger and pain behind us, and to cooperate for the good of our children. That laid a foundation for other relationships.

No, nothing is perfect now. My ex and I still have to walk on eggs at times, and bite our tongues, so to speak. But, we can be civil, and sitting at the same table having a civil conversation.
We just attempt to be mature enough to let go of sore points.

Unfortunately, when Danny and Linda divorced, . . . ..


That's tooooo weird! no way are me and my husband going to his ex's for vacation. Anybody else think that's weird?

[Clay]

nope Eyewitness only to you.... then again given the way you think its apparent why you think its strange...... in the words of D. L. Hughley, "you need Jesus"

[eye witness]

Thank you. I will also say that the denomination worked with me. I was an ordained minister at the time of my divorce. I have maintained my credentials. I am still an ordained SDA minister.

Folks, divorce happens. Sometimes marriages cannot be put back together.

It is comming out of my personal experiences, and in dealing with divorced and divorcing members that I have never criticized Danny for either his divorce, or his remarriage. While I am clearly on the side of Linda, she knows that I refuse to critize her ex-husband in that area.

My criticism of Danny is in regard to the other issues. My criticism is also in regard to the way that Linda was treated, and the charges that I beleive to be false.

The statement has been made that we who are on Linda's side have simply accepted her lies. Yes, I am putting this in my words. As it applies to me, that is false. In the early days, Danny Shelton was corresponding with me. I had communication with others also. My belief that Linda never gave Danny Biblical grounds for the divorce is based in part upon my personal communication with Danny.

Some may ask if my communication really came from Danny, and others. Well, that was once dicussed with an attorney who contacted me regarding that correspondence. I will suggest that speaks for itself.

I think that is great that the denomination was willing to work with you on your divorce. And for you to keep your credentials. I want to ask if you have faith in the leadership of the denomination? I mean, can you trust them to make decisions about divorce and such?
One more question, would you trust the NAD to make a fair assessment of the 3ABN and ASI situation? Keep your eyes open!

[Brenda]

[color=#993399]That's tooooo weird! no way are me and my husband going to his ex's for vacation. Anybody else think that's weird?
eye witness

Perhaps reading Observer's post would answer your question more fully

"Following my marriage, my ex and my present wife corresponded, spoke regularly on the telephone, and began sending each other gifts. That relationship progressed to the point where we (myself, my wife, our son, and our dog) would spend vacations at the home of my ex, and my oldest son. By this time, my ex was single again. We did that so we could visit my two oldest sons by my ex-wife."

Sometimes after divorce, compromises for the sake of the children are in order.

Rather than thinking that weird, I would admire their united ability to put the children's good first.

[Johann]

Eye witness, when was that program on? I heard someone mention it some time ago but never heard when or where.

I have seen that program, and if needed, I think I would be able to secure a copy of it. Only with biased eyes and some editing will you get the results Dr. Eye Witness claims.

[Spike]

Greg, thanks for sharing a private part of your life and showing how a true christian should live.

Eyewitness, nothing is impossible if Christ is the Lord of your life. If we can't get along here on this earth how are we going to in the new earth, so no it is not weired. Still praying for you. God Bless.

[Johann]

Linda committed adultery in the worse way. And there is plenty of evidence!!! That is why Linda and her Team did not show for the ASI meeting!!!!!! She was about to be exposed to a group with the greatest integrity.

Why is all this evidence invisible? You give me a good answer to that question. Then I'll consider replying to your post I missed - where there is not a single proof.

[princessdi]

Only those needing God to intervene is this area of their lives, as you are. Now, I could have said something else, because you are exhibiting the direct opposite of Observer's Christ-like behavior.

That's tooooo weird! no way are me and my husband going to his ex's for vacation. Anybody else think that's weird?
eye witness

[Observer]

Perhaps reading Observer's post would answer your question more fully

"Following my marriage, my ex and my present wife corresponded, spoke regularly on the telephone, and began sending each other gifts. That relationship progressed to the point where we (myself, my wife, our son, and our dog) would spend vacations at the home of my ex, and my oldest son. By this time, my ex was single again. We did that so we could visit my two oldest sons by my ex-wife."

Sometimes after divorce, compromises for the sake of the children are in order.

Rather than thinking that weird, I would admire their united ability to put the children's good first.

NOTE: It has not always been easy. But, as said our mutual interests were regarding the children.

While single, I had joint responsibility for the children. As a single parent, they were with me for 13 months once.

Both of my sons lived with me following my remarriage.

I mentioned that we had a falling out once. That split my two sons. The one living with his mother, went to her side. The other went to my side. Part of healing that breach was because of my two sons, even though they were adults. The one son was not speaking to me. I also needed to work to heal the breach. The split affect their relationship to each other. They needed the breach to be healed. Well, we talk now at least once a week.

Again, I do not hold that out for everyone. I simply point out that even in a divorce, people who have a mutual committment to make the best of it for everyone can do so.

By the way, I have not said anything negative about my ex-wife. Folks, is there every any need to do so? What is gained by doing so?

Where would we be now if things had gone differently in the 3-ABN divorce?