3abn Jan. 2007 Letter Options

[Fran]

Yes it does. It smells like you are trying to stir up another pot of innuendo and contention. UNDER DURESS???? PLEASE.....

Bystander;

Please continue. Every tome you post, your true self is shining through! Did you run out of people to send in to do damage control? You know how it is; if you want something done, and done right, you have to do it yourself!

Proceed, so we can glean all the clues you keep leaving behind. Be careful not to hang yourself in the process!

It seems to me that my contribution to this mess is documented facts from the IL vs. 3ABN Property Tax Lawsuit and the IRS 990’s that 3ABN files each year.

Where are those missing assets?

Where was that $2.4+ Million that someone just “forgot” to post? By golly that was trust funds, Right?

What happened to all the rents/leases income that never got posted on any income statements? Could that income have been placed in the honey pot as discretionary spending funds?

How much did your house cost the donors? If you dare answer, remember to add in all those over-runs. Oh, I’m sorry. I forgot that those costs were distributed all over the place so they couldn’t be traced back to the cost of the house.

Also, can you tell us the actual costs for your air transportation? I am sorry; I must have forgotten that those costs were spread all around too!

Tell me why 3ABN had over $14,000 of money belonging to other ministries right in the smack dab middle of 3ABN Income? It makes me wonder just exactly what the dollars amount would really be. Who got the shaft? Whose money was stolen from them? What ministry missed out on God’s blessings to them? Only God knows.

In my opinion, I believe Danny Shelton feels he is entitled to that extra money because it is Danny that gets all those poor widows to give their 2 mites. It takes a lot of work to do all those Begathons. Danny is entitles to extra benefits; Right?

Linda now longer was able to fulfill his desired entitlements, so he has every right to dismiss his wife anytime he feels he is entitled to do so! Look how God has blessed him! God made special arrangements for Danny. He was entitled to them.

Danny is entitled to only loyal employees. He uses tests to see it they are true blue! Danny is entitled to this and if someone should think differently, Danny is entitles to dismiss them.

If they might cause problems for Danny, God has entitled Danny to destroy them! He has proof! Just look at how God has blessed him financially!

However, there is one entitlement that has not been completed! Linda is not on welfare and she is very happy in her new found freedom. Her life is great and has peace that passes understanding. She has peace, joy and love for her fellow man. She has forgiven Danny for all his destruction and is free indeed.

Danny can’t stand this. That is why you are here, Bystander. You are here to continue to destroy that one entitlement for Danny. What a job description.

These threads have nothing to do with Linda what-so-ever! She is a non-issue. Only you and your crew even bring her up.

The issues are about Danny, Tommy Shelton, Brandi, Brenda, Shelly and DJ Quinn, John Lomacang, Kay Kuzma, Mollie & Hal Steenson, Larry Ewing, now CA Murray, Walt and the rest of the board.

Let us not forget the special donors. Keep talking; we are taking notes and saving your posts so they can be regurgitated at a later date.

I am personally witness to just such a threat...excepting the manner of delivery. The results? Nada. Nothing happened. Pure bluff, I guess.

I, too, think it would open up more worms than 3ABN knew what to do with...and they'd squirm onto the scene so quickly as to soil a number of people along the way. Well, if they want a lawsuit, they can only be hoping that the "other side" is intimidated by the lawyer fees enough to back down ahead of a court case. Pure bluff. I doubt 3ABN would win. But you never know!

Maybe we should be proactive and sue Riva, 3ABN/ Danny and Tommy???

[Observer]

Here is a link to the wikipedia entry for slander and libel fyi........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slander_and_libel


What other attorneys are representing Tommy?

Is 3ABN paying for Tommy's legal fees?

I know my head spins here sometimes as I try to keep the different threads and allegations and bits of information and the spins on what it means or could mean straight.

Has Glen Dryden written or said anything about 3ABN and Danny or just about Tommy's past? Is he doing anything more at the present than affirming what he said before?

Can anyone tell me if Mr. Riva is an Adventist or what his legal experience is? I wonder how many billable hours he charged for writing this letter!

I wonder if the Cult of Shelton will be happy to see their money going to defend Tommy.

Do you think the victims are getting similar letters threatening them?

nw

I read the letter from Mr. Riva, and I believe it was written by an attorney, and a Seventh-day Adventist.

Is is intended to bluff? Perhaps.

But, in my opinion, sooner or later, there will be cases of litigation. These 3-ABN issues are headed for the civil courts. Those courts are the only venue, in my opinion, that will resolve some of these questions.

Who will begin the litigation? I do not know. When will additional litigation begin? I do not know.

Frankly, I suspect that before this is all over ligation will have been started by people on several sides of the issues.

Why do we not have more litigation than has been started? Who knows. But, under the law, there are circumstances where defendants may have advantages over the plaintiff. This may be why some, on both sides, have stated that they wish for the other side to file.

Well, this will probably become more complicated with the passage of time.

[Snoopy]

It seems to me that my contribution to this mess is documented facts from the IL vs. 3ABN Property Tax Lawsuit and the IRS 990’s that 3ABN files each year.

Where are those missing assets?

Where was that $2.4+ Million that someone just “forgot” to post? By golly that was trust funds, Right?

What happened to all the rents/leases income that never got posted on any income statements? Could that income have been placed in the honey pot as discretionary spending funds?

How much did your house cost the donors? If you dare answer, remember to add in all those over-runs. Oh, I’m sorry. I forgot that those costs were distributed all over the place so they couldn’t be traced back to the cost of the house.

Also, can you tell us the actual costs for your air transportation? I am sorry; I must have forgotten that those costs were spread all around too!

Tell me why 3ABN had over $14,000 of money belonging to other ministries right in the smack dab middle of 3ABN Income? It makes me wonder just exactly what the dollars amount would really be. Who got the shaft? Whose money was stolen from them? What ministry missed out on God’s blessings to them? Only God knows.

Hi Fran,

This is very interesting. Do you have copies of the IRS 990s that have been filed? Are they public information? Are they posted somewhere? Is there any chance that book royalties to Danny and Shelley might compromise 3ABN's non-profit status? The more I read, the more questions I have!

[Fran]

Hi Fran,

This is very interesting. Do you have copies of the IRS 990s that have been filed? Are they public information? Are they posted somewhere? Is there any chance that book royalties to Danny and Shelley might compromise 3ABN's non-profit status? The more I read, the more questions I have!

Snoopy;

You can request them from the IRS. They are public documents. The attached notes are very revealing.

The IL vs. 3ABN Property Tax Lawsuit has a wealth of information from the auditors. My question would be, "How much did the auditors NOT find?"

Wikipedia defines GAAP - Generally Accepted Accounting Principal - as:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GAAP

The auditors found that 3ABN does not follow these principals. Every business should use these principals as a safe guard and a security measure. 3ABN is a corporation that has passed its 20th birthday. There is NO excuse for not following these guidelines.

NOT following GAAP should send up red flags for all to see.

Bystander,

Thank you for giving me this opportunity to bring up these pesky, giant problems. Our dialog has been very productive, don’t you think?

Oh yes, I forgot to ask! Where did all the money go for all those assets that got sold? Let me think. Someone sold them for you! The money went to their account and then was transferred out to another bank account, right? Where did the transfer of funds stop? The Cayman Islands sound nice to me. Oh, I’m sorry. They didn’t stop there for long either, did they?

I would imagine it was rough making sure all transfers were under $10,000. Otherwise the big boys would be looking over your shoulders. Does 3ABN have a recent volume of GAAP in their library? Is anyone reading? It would be good to have some Non-Profit books also.

GAAP

Generally Accepted Accounting Principles (GAAP) is the standard framework of guidelines for financial accounting. It includes the standards, conventions, and rules accountants follow in recording and summarizing transactions, and in the preparation of financial statements.

Overview
Financial accounting information must be assembled and reported objectively. Third-parties who must rely on such information have a right to be assured that the data are free from bias and inconsistency, whether deliberate or not. For this reason, financial accounting relies on certain standards or guides that are called "General Accepted Accounting Principles" (GAAP).

Principles also derive from tradition, such as the concept of matching. In any report of financial statements (audit, compilation, review, etc.), the preparer/auditor/CPA must indicate to the reader whether or not the information contained within the statements complies with GAAP.


Principle of regularity
Regularity can be defined as conformity to enforced rules and laws.


Principle of sincerity
According to this principle, the accounting unit should reflect in good faith the reality of the company's financial status.


Principle of the permanence of methods
This principle aims at allowing the coherence and comparison of the financial information published by the company.


Principle of non-compensation
One should show the full details of the financial information and not seek to compensate a debt with an asset, a revenue with an expense, etc.


Principle of prudence
This principle aims at showing the reality "as is" : one should not try to make things look prettier than they are. Typically, a revenue should be recorded only when it is certain and a provision should be entered for an expense which is probable.


Principle of continuity
When stating financial information, one should assume that the business will not be interrupted. This principle is mitigating the previous one about prudence: assets do not have to be accounted at their disposable value, but it is accepted that they are at their historical value (see depreciation).


Principle of periodicity
Each accounting entry should be allocated to a given period, and split accordingly if it covers several periods. If a client pre-pays a subscription (or lease, etc.), the given revenue should be split to the entire time-span and not counted for entirely on the date of the transaction

[Snoopy]

Snoopy;

You can request them from the IRS. They are public documents. The attached notes are very revealing.

The IL vs. 3ABN Property Tax Lawsuit has a wealth of information from the auditors. My question would be, "How much did the auditors NOT find?"

Wikipedia defines GAAP - Generally Accepted Accounting Principal - as:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GAAP

The auditors found that 3ABN does not follow these principals. Every business should use these principals as a safe guard and a security measure. 3ABN is a corporation that has passed its 20th birthday. There is NO excuse for not following these guidelines.

NOT following GAAP should send up red flags for all to see.

Bystander,

Thank you for giving me this opportunity to bring up these pesky, giant problems. Our dialog has been very productive, don’t you think?

Oh yes, I forgot to ask! Where did all the money go for all those assets that got sold? Let me think. Someone sold them for you! The money went to their account and then was transferred out to another bank account, right? Where did the transfer of funds stop? The Cayman Islands sound nice to me. Oh, I’m sorry. They didn’t stop there for long either, did they?

I would imagine it was rough making sure all transfers were under $10,000. Otherwise the big boys would be looking over your shoulders. Does 3ABN have a recent volume of GAAP in their library? Is anyone reading? It would be good to have some Non-Profit books also.

GAAP

Generally Accepted Accounting Principles (GAAP) is the standard framework of guidelines for financial accounting. It includes the standards, conventions, and rules accountants follow in recording and summarizing transactions, and in the preparation of financial statements.

Overview
Financial accounting information must be assembled and reported objectively. Third-parties who must rely on such information have a right to be assured that the data are free from bias and inconsistency, whether deliberate or not. For this reason, financial accounting relies on certain standards or guides that are called "General Accepted Accounting Principles" (GAAP).

Principles also derive from tradition, such as the concept of matching. In any report of financial statements (audit, compilation, review, etc.), the preparer/auditor/CPA must indicate to the reader whether or not the information contained within the statements complies with GAAP.
Principle of regularity
Regularity can be defined as conformity to enforced rules and laws.
Principle of sincerity
According to this principle, the accounting unit should reflect in good faith the reality of the company's financial status.
Principle of the permanence of methods
This principle aims at allowing the coherence and comparison of the financial information published by the company.
Principle of non-compensation
One should show the full details of the financial information and not seek to compensate a debt with an asset, a revenue with an expense, etc.
Principle of prudence
This principle aims at showing the reality "as is" : one should not try to make things look prettier than they are. Typically, a revenue should be recorded only when it is certain and a provision should be entered for an expense which is probable.
Principle of continuity
When stating financial information, one should assume that the business will not be interrupted. This principle is mitigating the previous one about prudence: assets do not have to be accounted at their disposable value, but it is accepted that they are at their historical value (see depreciation).
Principle of periodicity
Each accounting entry should be allocated to a given period, and split accordingly if it covers several periods. If a client pre-pays a subscription (or lease, etc.), the given revenue should be split to the entire time-span and not counted for entirely on the date of the transaction

Hi Fran,
Sounds like you have an accounting background! Thanks for the info. I am still wondering about the auditors. How independent are they? Who selected them? And, I wonder who completes the Shelton income tax return? I'm no tax expert, but it sounds to me like a comparison of the 3ABN IRS Form 990 and the Shelton IRS Form 1040 might be interesting...
Thanks for the update,
Snoopy

[andithomas1]

You can get the 990 filed by 3ABN on "guidestar". It is a site that has all not for profit entities and the 990's they file. I didn't try to print their 990 but I know you can get them off that site. 990's are public information except for the listing of who donates to them-that is not public. The 990 doesn't really give enough detail-I would love to see their trial balance to determine what is really going on with the funds.

[wwjd]

QUOTE FROM FRAN Oh yes, I forgot to ask! Where did all the money go for all those assets that got sold? Let me think. Someone sold them for you! The money went to their account and then was transferred out to another bank account, right? Where did the transfer of funds stop? The Cayman Islands sound nice to me. Oh, I’m sorry. They didn’t stop there for long either, did they?
I would imagine it was rough making sure all transfers were under $10,000. Otherwise the big boys would be looking over your shoulders. Does 3ABN have a recent volume of GAAP in their library? Is anyone reading? It would be good to have some Non-Profit books also.?

Fran, you have made some serious allegations in those 2 paragraphs. You have made up a ficticious story and put it down as if it were a fact. You, also, will be accountable to God and man for statements such as these. You said it all when you said WHAT DIDN'T THE AUDITORS FIND? That is desperation as that statement could be applied to any church, conference, ministry, orphanage, church school ect ect.....and means absolutely nothing except to show how badly you want to hurt that ministry.

This post has been edited by wwjd: Jan 26 2007, 12:57 PM

[awesumtenor]

Fran, you have made some serious allegations in those 2 paragraphs. You have made up a ficticious story and put it down as if it were a fact. You, also, will be accountable to God and man for statements such as these. You said it all when you said WHAT DIDN'T THE AUDITORS FIND? That is desperation as that statement could be applied to any church, conference, ministry, orphanage, church school ect ect.....and means absolutely nothing except to show how badly you want to hurt that ministry.

She hasn't made up a story; she has asked questions... you, rather than answer said questions, choose rather to make up a story in an attempt to disparage Fran, in the hope of changing the subject.

I think if we were to look up "one-trick pony" your picture would be next to it...

In His service,
Mr. J

[husbandoftheyear]

Maybe we should be proactive and sue Riva, 3ABN/ Danny and Tommy???

Can a lawyer in the house help me out here...

IF it can be proven that Dan knew that he had two sex offenders working with the children at the station, can the parents sue for something?

[Observer]

Can a lawyer in the house help me out here...

IF it can be proven that Dan knew that he had two sex offenders working with the children at the station, can the parents sue for something?

Yes, if there is an injury. No, I am not an attorney.

[husbandoftheyear]

Yes, if there is an injury. No, I am not an attorney.

Okay, what about if a company hires a person they KNOW is a sex offender (registered) and allows them to work with children?

[andithomas1]

Okay, what about if a company hires a person they KNOW is a sex offender (registered) and allows them to work with children?

That makes the company libel if that sex offender is given access to children in the workplace and some thing happens to a child there. I am not a lawyer but I know that. It is also damaging to the image of that entity and most companies would not want this information made public epecially one that receives the bulk of its revenues from contributions. Preception is everything!

[husbandoftheyear]

That makes the company libel if that sex offender is given access to children in the workplace and some thing happens to a child there. I am not a lawyer but I know that. It is also damaging to the image of that entity and most companies would not want this information made public epecially one that receives the bulk of its revenues from contributions. Preception is everything!

I understand if something happens to the child, but what about as far as the government is concerned. Aren't offenders put on some kind of limitation of being near children? If that's the case, then a company who hires an offender and knows they will be around children must be liable for putting the person and children in that position. Am I reading too much into this? It just seems there would be some restriction against companies doing this...

[Noahswife]

Okay, what about if a company hires a person they KNOW is a sex offender (registered) and allows them to work with children?

The mere fact that one is a lawyer does not mean one knows the answer that would apply. Different jurisdictions have different statutes that apply to registered sexual predators and new ones are being proposed every day. Individual convicted predators may also have different restrictions as part of their probation.

One would also want to distinguish between criminal and civil penalties.

Even if someone is not a convicted offender, I believe that if a child were the victim of abuse and the corporation should have known there was that possibility based on the abuser's history and did nothing to prevent it, the corporation would be liable.

IMO

nw

[princessdi]

I am no lawyer either, but I know here in Cali, even the janitor at the school has to have a DOJ check becuase of past cases of abusers using that avenue to get access to children. Any company with any sense would dot he check, I believe it might be a $100 or less, if that perspective employee was to be working with children.