3abn Jan. 2007 Letter Options

[Observer]

Okay, what about if a company hires a person they KNOW is a sex offender (registered) and allows them to work with children?

Yes, if there is a tort (injuiry). I do not have to be an attorney to know that.

No, if there is not tort.

[Noahswife]

I am no lawyer either, but I know here in Cali, even the janitor at the school has to have a DOJ check becuase of past cases of abusers using that avenue to get access to children. Any company with any sense would dot he check, I believe it might be a $100 or less, if that perspective employee was to be working with children.

Any company with sense and any company receiving good legal advise on risk management would do it.

If I recall correctly we had a recent case here in the midwest that involved a local catholic parish. When abuse was discovered it was discovered the person doing the back ground checks for the parish was a previously convicted predator himself.

nw

This post has been edited by Noahswife: Jan 26 2007, 05:34 PM

[inga]

Okay, I'm no legal expert and can't even speak 'legalese' but that letter sounds like a 3rd grader wrote it!

Well ... maybe not a third-grader. But it is thoroughly unprofessional. It is clearly intended to intimidated. (That's actually the most cost-effective way to use a lawyer -- to intimidate one's opposition.)

Perhaps we should set up a fund or at least let the COG board know that we will do our mites to their defense fund, should it become necessary.

[Fran]

QUOTE FROM FRAN Oh yes, I forgot to ask! Where did all the money go for all those assets that got sold? Let me think. Someone sold them for you! The money went to their account and then was transferred out to another bank account, right? Where did the transfer of funds stop? The Cayman Islands sound nice to me. Oh, I’m sorry. They didn’t stop there for long either, did they?

I would imagine it was rough making sure all transfers were under $10,000. Otherwise the big boys would be looking over your shoulders. Does 3ABN have a recent volume of GAAP in their library? Is anyone reading? It would be good to have some Non-Profit books also.?

WWJD: Fran, you have made some serious allegations in those 2 paragraphs. You have made up a fictitious story and put it down as if it were a fact.

Fran: I asked questions. You have no idea what information I have or do not have. Is this your threat to me, again? Sure sounds like it. What would you say if I told you I bought some of those assets and followed the money? Now notice here, again, I am asking a question!

WWJD: You, also, will be accountable to God and man for statements such as these.

Fran: Oh, yes, I realize this! That is why I have been screaming for ever how many years it has been.


WWJD: You said it all when you said WHAT DIDN'T THE AUDITORS FIND?

Fran: That is what auditors look for silly! That is why they trace things from source to death and then from death to origination. Give me a break!

WWJD: That is desperation as that statement could be applied to any church, conference, ministry, orphanage, church school ect ect.....and means absolutely nothing except to show how badly you want to hurt that ministry.

Fran: You are correct! And this should apply to them also. The problems lie in what is not in the Financial Statements. You know, it is those things that have to be put into the 990’s through the notes. Corrections of $2.4 + million would be on the serious side in my opinion. This amount is relevant enough to raise red flags everywhere!

Thank you for your comments. If I remember it correctly, Jesus chased the money changers out of the temple. The comment can be applied to any entity that does not follow GAPP, has missing Assets, and multiple Bank Accounts assigned to family members instead of to the Non-Profit entity. This applies to all non-profit entities.

As I have repeatedly told you over the last 3 years, I have never met Linda or Danny. I have never spoken to either through the phone or mail. I have never been about the marriage. Ask your friend Greg. It is true.

I am not about trying to destroy a ministry. I am 100% about changing the way 3ABN does accounting. I am about making them deal with GAAP and to become transparent in their transactions with family and the ministry. I am about finding any/all of the fake Dummy corporations under Danny Shelton's control.

I am about seeing that every individual that gives a donation to 3ABN will be able to check and see where their money went! I am about stopping nepotism with in the entity.

I am about changing the policy and procedures that are not as the Employee Handbook claims. The Employee Handbook needs to be followed to the letter.

The IL vs. 3ABN is very clear as to just who handles the finances and Personnel of 3ABN. Danny Shelton did! If it had been Linda, I would be doing the same thing. Management at 3ABN is not competent. That is exhibited over and over in the lawsuit. Management did not think following GAAP was important.

Were the auditors independent? I will give that a 100% resounding "YES". Danny Shelton would have never allowed such an audit to be written! I say that with 99.9% probability that I am correct, that this audit was definitely independent. I surely wouldn't pay for that audit from auditors that I had hired.

Now as far as Linda is concerned, I do not believe she committed adultery in any way shape or form. I believe Danny has an obsession with Linda. His hatred far exceeds his common sense! Just saying the name "Linda" must makes the hair on his back stand up!

He nails her to the cross every time he gets the chance. It has been a very stupid tactic. It has worked against everything he has tried to do.

By the way, I am not in a Linda camp. I don't think I am worthy to pass her test of me. I am here so 3ABN can be used as God has intended from the beginning.

God does not want alleged child molesters any where near the 3ABN Ministry. God does not want alleged adulterers in high positions at 3ABN. God wants to see accountability in the use of funds in His store house. God wants moral individuals to represent Him to the world.

Why does everyone think 3ABN would die without Danny? No way! Everyone is replaceable, yes, even you and me! 3ABN may have a few hic-cups, but the show would go on! They may have to take a few months to revamp the accounting processes.

The first change would have to do with cash control. The CEO of any entity should never touch cash money! They alone should not have signature authority. Checks need 2 signatures.

Man, look what you have gone and done! I will turn you back to regualrly scheduled programming. Surely you get the points I have stated.

[Fran]

Hey, WWJD;

Where did you go? I'm waiting for a eresponse.

We also need to keep all this financial stuff up front for the "members in the pews" to read and understand!

You just want this to go away? It won't. It is in legal documents!

[Hawk]

Fran, my hero!

[PeacefulBe]

Okay, what about if a company hires a person they KNOW is a sex offender (registered) and allows them to work with children?

HOTY, when you first brought up the fact that Herb Grimm and Bill Cochran were registered sex offenders who work/worked at 3abn I neglected to ask what I think are some important questions:

Was it common knowledge that these two men were registered sex offenders?

Did the producers of the children's programming know they were registered sex offenders?

Were all parents advised that both were registered sex offenders so they could have this important information in order to make proper decisions about having their children around them?

Or, were they allowed around children without any accountability while those in charge crossed their fingers, held their breath and hoped nothing bad would happen?

[Fran]

WWJD;

Bump just for you.

[husbandoftheyear]

HOTY, when you first brought up the fact that Herb Grimm and Bill Cochran were registered sex offenders who work/worked at 3abn I neglected to ask what I think are some important questions:

Was it common knowledge that these two men were registered sex offenders?

Did the producers of the children's programming know they were registered sex offenders?

Were all parents advised that both were registered sex offenders so they could have this important information in order to make proper decisions about having their children around them?

Or, were they allowed around children without any accountability while those in charge crossed their fingers, held their breath and hoped nothing bad would happen?

Well, I can't say what people knew, obviously. Dan Shelton and Brenda Walsh are the "Executive Producer" and "Producer" of Kids Time, respectively.

The offenders could have lied on their application about being convicted of a felony, I don't know. I don't know if background checks are done on anyone. It seems to me that Bill Cochrans was brought into 3ABN by a Shelton relative, but please don't quote me on that. Perhaps someone has more info.

To my knowledge, the parents, children, production staff were not told. So, the answer to the last question would be "yes."

[Bystander]

Well, I can't say what people knew, obviously. Dan Shelton and Brenda Walsh are the "Executive Producer" and "Producer" of Kids Time, respectively.

The offenders could have lied on their application about being convicted of a felony, I don't know. I don't know if background checks are done on anyone. It seems to me that Bill Cochrans was brought into 3ABN by a Shelton relative, but please don't quote me on that. Perhaps someone has more info.

To my knowledge, the parents, children, production staff were not told. So, the answer to the last question would be "yes."

When I saw that you posted this sometime ago, I looked into it. Here is what I found out.
Herb Grimm was never an "employee" he was a construction subcontractor. Hardly a position to be around children. I am not clear on this but I believe that when he moved to southern Illinois with his family that he was not a convicted molester. Those charges were brought (if I understood correctly) by his wife during seperation and divorce and obviously was convicted of whatever charges were brought against him.
The story on Bill C only takes a few phone calls to the right officials. 10 or 12 years ago in a town in Southern Illinois Bill was a teacher in upper high school grades or lower college grades (wasn't clear on that) He made the huge mistake of having an affair with a female student. (Not a child or even a young student). Her parents found out and pressed charges.
It was not a Shelton (even though they are getting blamed for everything) that brought him to 3 Angels but another worker that was friends with Bill. The worker explained the whole situation to management and said that incident was in the past, Bill had paid for it, was sorry for it and had turned his life around and just wanted a chance. Administration then called the sheriff off the town that he was convicted in and got a glowing report. Said it was a bad decision but the situation had been consenting that he was not a (child molester) in any sense of the word and he (the sheriff) would appreciate 3ANGELS giving him a chance. Now to me, when the sheriff that handled the case says that, that says it all. On the sheriffs recommendation and that of the 3ABN employee Bill was indeed given a second chance. By all accounts, he has made a dependable, respectful and hard working employee. For those of you that have seen his picture on the Offenders website, you can see he is not a spring chicken. I, therefore, commend 3ABN for giving him a chance. That should be what all ministries are about.
For those who do not believe this, get the info off of the offenders website and make your own phonecalls to verify this.

[PeacefulBe]

When I saw that you posted this sometime ago, I looked into it. Here is what I found out.
Herb Grimm was never an "employee" he was a construction subcontractor. Hardly a position to be around children. I am not clear on this but I believe that when he moved to southern Illinois with his family that he was not a convicted molester. Those charges were brought (if I understood correctly) by his wife during seperation and divorce and obviously was convicted of whatever charges were brought against him.
The story on Bill C only takes a few phone calls to the right officials. 10 or 12 years ago in a town in Southern Illinois Bill was a teacher in upper high school grades or lower college grades (wasn't clear on that) He made the huge mistake of having an affair with a female student. (Not a child or even a young student). Her parents found out and pressed charges.
It was not a Shelton (even though they are getting blamed for everything) that brought him to 3 Angels but another worker that was friends with Bill. The worker explained the whole situation to management and said that incident was in the past, Bill had paid for it, was sorry for it and had turned his life around and just wanted a chance. Administration then called the sheriff off the town that he was convicted in and got a glowing report. Said it was a bad decision but the situation had been consenting that he was not a (child molester) in any sense of the word and he (the sheriff) would appreciate 3ANGELS giving him a chance. Now to me, when the sheriff that handled the case says that, that says it all. On the sheriffs recommendation and that of the 3ABN employee Bill was indeed given a second chance. By all accounts, he has made a dependable, respectful and hard working employee. For those of you that have seen his picture on the Offenders website, you can see he is not a spring chicken. I, therefore, commend 3ABN for giving him a chance. That should be what all ministries are about.
For those who do not believe this, get the info off of the offenders website and make your own phonecalls to verify this.

The web site says his crimes were aggravated criminal sex abuse/victim 13 - 18 and that the victim was under the age of 18. While this young woman may have felt that the situation was consenting, a young person under the age of 18 does not have mature judgement and can be easily swayed by a person in a position of trust like a teacher or a pastor. I can say with near certainty that, as this young lady matures, she will have a much different view of the situation and will feel betrayed by a person she trusted.

I am not saying that he should not be given a chance, far from that, but those he is working around need to be made aware of his past so that they can help him with his accountability.

PB

This post has been edited by PeacefullyBewildered: Jan 27 2007, 06:04 PM

[Bystander]

Hey, WWJD;

Where did you go? I'm waiting for a eresponse.

We also need to keep all this financial stuff up front for the "members in the pews" to read and understand!

You just want this to go away? It won't. It is in legal documents!

You are constantly talking about generalized legal documents. Not necessarily 3ABN's documents. You are extremely misleading when you say "what if you had purchased assets and followed them. " That plants a huge ugly seed in people's mind. But, for those "with it" enough to see the venom that drips off of your collection of posts, they will come to this conclusion: That if you had such evidence you would not be sitting on it. You would have hit the door of the 3abn ministry with storm troopers in tow. Again, that shows me, that this was just one of many dishonest scenerios painted by you as if they were fact. Your if, ands, and buts, are killers. You say God put you here to help expose all of the errant ways of the 3ABN financial department then why aren't you there. Being on this little website won't accomplish anything. If you have the credentials to teach their accounting office then go there and do so. For myself and many others listening to the credentials of the chief financial officer on the 3ABN live a week ago is enough for me. He worked for years for the Waterhouse investing firm, one of the biggest in the world, as well as several other esteemed financial institutions. By reports from those who know him personally, he is viewed as a wonderful and sincere christian with the utmost integrity. Those that know he and his family closely say he would never ever do anything dishonest or underhanded in any way.
Now, you start out that the divorce is not what you are about. That Danny or Linda is not what you are about. Then you make a statement that you would not be counted "worthy" to pass Linda's test? Fran my my. That statement is so obviously "hero worship" that it should be the definition placed in Webster's dictionary.
I also noticed in a previous post by you (if I am incorrect just tell me) where you made the statement that Goldie is not here to save them now. Or something to that affect. I assume you meant by "Goldie" that you were referring to the Shelton's mother. If so, What did you mean by save them. What authority or power did she hold that she could "save them, or anyone?" just curious.

The web site says his crimes were aggravated criminal sex abuse/victim 13 - 18 and that the victim was under the age of 18. While this young woman may have felt that the situation was consenting, a young person under the age of 18 does not have mature judgement and can be easily swayed by a person in a position of trust like a teacher or a pastor. I can say with near certainty that, as this young lady matures, she will have a much different view of the situation and will feel betrayed by a person she trusted.

I am not saying that he should not be given a chance, far from that, but those he is working around need to be made aware of his past so that they can help him with his accountability.

PB

I agree with your opinion of what the girl thought later. It has been 10 or 12 years and I am sure she already does. I might disagree about informing the people that work around him for this reason.. it was quite some time ago, I believe he went through counseling as part of his rehabilitation and most of all because this was a one time incident and has never happened again. Just a matter of opinion I guess. But the release of this info from hoty was to imply that 3abn is lax in who they hire while I wholeheartedly agree It was good of them to give him a chance.

[NormF]

Long ago, even back into prehistoric times (otherwise known as the years before 2004), Danny made it abundantly clear to his enemies that he was funded by the deepest pockets in Adventdom (also known as Garwin McNeilus) and that GM was only too happy to underwrite legal costs too, no matter how long they might drag out or how costly they became. Over time, that list of persons came to include Linda, Derrell, and others. Danny has repeatedly used such threats; there is a consistent pattern. When things get too hot for him, if the person currently in his sights isn't dancing to his tune, he has assured them he will sue them for every penny they have. Has he done that, actually taken legal action? Yes and no, though for our purposes here, the specific, nuanced answer doesn't matter. What matters is the pattern of threats.

Obviously, ordinary people cannot win megabuck battles. Danny made it clear to those he threatened thus that it didn't matter to him whether he won or not; bankrupting them would serve him just as well as winning in court. I'll not speak to his success rate in this note, except to say it depends on how you define success (and ethics and morality) ... and how far down the road you are looking. I'd like to believe that in the end however, the truth will out, despite the course so far.

The reason for glancing at history this way is to better assess where things stand today. This present threat to this pastor is another page out of the same play book, clearly meant by its deliverer to serve the same ends.

As for the literary/legal quality of the letter, either the guy is a dolt as a lawyer, or to put his best spin on it, he has completely removed his lawyer's cap before sitting down to write. Of course, as a piece of intimidation, it's quite a lu-lu. One could hardly get more obvious, or belligerent. In other words, completely consistent with the play book.

Now then, will Danny actually have him go forward with such a suit? Hard to say. As erratic and unstable as he's becoming of late (and those surrounding him as well it appears) and as deeply as he has dug himself into the hole he is in, who can say? Anything is possible at this point.

Personally, I do not think this particular world will follow T.S. Eliot's pattern: "Not with a bang but whimper." ... although, for what it's worth, there is also such a thing as a whimpering bang. This one (the 3ABN affair) is, in my view, not likely to go quietly into that dark night.

Hope for the best, expect the worst.

Regards,
Norm

[husbandoftheyear]

I agree with your opinion of what the girl thought later. It has been 10 or 12 years and I am sure she already does. I might disagree about informing the people that work around him for this reason.. it was quite some time ago, I believe he went through counseling as part of his rehabilitation and most of all because this was a one time incident and has never happened again. Just a matter of opinion I guess. But the release of this info from hoty was to imply that 3abn is lax in who they hire while I wholeheartedly agree It was good of them to give him a chance.

Okay, now you really cannot believe this stuff, right? Oh my, well what can I say?

Let's start with, yes I do believe that ministries and people should accept that people can be delivered from their sins. Absolutely. However, I do not think it wise to hire a known sex offender for a position in the Production Department where there are children. That seems like common sense.

I said at the beginning of this that I did not know the circumstances in Bill's case, but I can say that you don't get slapped with "aggravated" anything unless it was either unwanted or forced. I don't believe it was a romantic liaison gone bad.

Since you know the story, I have some questions...

1. Exactly how many convictions would have made the light bulb to turn on?
2. As you admit that 3ABN knew Bill was a sex offender, where was the memo to the staff and
parents who brought there children into the station telling them of this?
3. Wasn't Bill brought into 3ABN by J. Yeager, Dan's son-in-law? Doesn't that make him a
Shelton family member (you know, the "ones being blamed for everything?")
4. What is the difference in being an "employee" who is at the station everyday around children
and a "contract worker" at the station everyday around children?

[inga]

Long ago, even back into prehistoric times (otherwise known as the years before 2004), Danny made it abundantly clear to his enemies that he was funded by the deepest pockets in Adventdom (also known as Garwin McNeilus) and that GM was only too happy to underwrite legal costs too, no matter how long they might drag out or how costly they became.

Norm, thanks for reminding us of the McNeilus-3ABN connection. Since McNeilus is also the major force behind ASI, it really makes it laughable to hold ASI up as an "objective" organization to review the ethics of Dan Shelton and 3ABN.

As for the legal threats, you've said it well ...

(Good to hear from you again!)