3abn Jan. 2007 Letter Options

[ex3ABNemployee]

I apologise, I was NOT trying to discredit you, I simply did not feel that what has been published had been verified well enough.

I also did not see the earlier post where you signed your name, and for that I apologise also.

Do you mind me asking to start, when exactly in the 80's you were hired by 3ABN and when exactly you ceased working there?

Thank you.

I don't see what my dates of employment with 3ABN have to do with anything, but if I recall correctly I worked there between 1986 and 1988.

Since you say you're not trying to discredit me, though, I would like to know what you meant by this comment, posted in Damage Control:

Also didn't you tell me Clem's brother had claimed he had "relationship" with Tommy, and was defending Tommy? How old did he claim he was at the time?

[Ralph]

I don't see what my dates of employment with 3ABN have to do with anything, but if I recall correctly I worked there between 1986 and 1988.

Since you say you're not trying to discredit me, though, I would like to know what you meant by this comment, posted in Damage Control:

Sometimes I wonder if you are replying to a coy lawyer.

[sonshineonme]

Sometimes I wonder if you are replying to a coy lawyer.

hmmm.....


I think you may be on to something.....


desperation AND trickery!


(aka Mr. Riva???)

This post has been edited by sonshineonme: Jan 28 2007, 01:07 AM

[Fran]

Sometimes I wonder if you are replying to a coy lawyer.

You are so right. Could this be the real Voltaire wanna be?

[roxe]

hmmm.....
I think you may be on to something.....
desperation AND trickery!
(aka Mr. Riva???)

sonshine,

she does have a way with words... emotional words...

she posted that she is an unlicensed nurse: post #63 on

http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s...nurse&st=60

however, maybe she decided that nurses don't make enough money, so didn't bother with the license...
but went to law school and got that license instead... would explain alot...

here, her gender = f... hmmm.... maybe? maybe not?

This post has been edited by roxe: Jan 28 2007, 02:33 AM

[PeacefulBe]

"may be suckers" and "may not be suckers"....

If what is claimed here is true, then 3ABN is acting criminally, and IF that is proven and they are charged, and found guilty, then those people you talk about will probably see the need to do as you say.
But to warn with evil surmisings, gossip and slander, and unproven accusations? That is not of God.
We are never called to issue those kind of warnings.

Okay Cindy, you've made the charge now I want to see you make a list of what you say are evil surmisings, gossip and slander, and unproven accusations.

Gather your evidence from the many posts here and present it with the appropriate headings, ie. Evil Surmisings
1.
2.
and so on.

If you can't come up with a list, best not be making such a charge unless you follow it with IMO for we all are welcome to post our opinions here.

Boy, it's amazing how quiet some people get when asked a direct question.

Brad Dunning's statement revealed details I didn't know about until I read it here. According to Brad, he was told the EXACT same thing by Tommy that I was about his "medical condition." Brad and I have not talked since he left the Ezra school. If he's lying, that was still a pretty good trick to know the exact wording that was told to me, even though he hadn't asked me about it.

But then again, why deal with the facts?

Duane, this is so well put. How can anyone with a brain not see that this is truth?

This post has been edited by PeacefullyBewildered: Jan 28 2007, 01:47 AM

[Fran]

3ABN Jan 2007 Letter…..

Bystander: You are constantly talking about generalized legal documents.

Fran: Wrong! The documents are not “general” but “Concrete.” The court findings from the IL vs. 3ABN Property Tax Lawsuit and IRS Form 990’s are concrete legal documents.

Bystander: Not necessarily 3ABN's documents.

Fran: Are you stating publicly that 3ABN’s documents do not match those legal documents? Oop’s! That is scary, isn’t it!

Bystander: You are extremely misleading when you say "what if you had purchased assets and followed them. " That plants a huge ugly seed in people's mind.

Fran: Well, rest easy. I did purchase some assets! Yep; got receipts too! I even have one Tax Deductible Receipt for one of my my purchases. It states I donated money to 3ABN. It also says I received no goods for that donation ~ I'm sorry, for that purchase. Don’t worry; I was smart enough not to claim that tax deduction. I would suggest that you are correct about my comment planting “Hugh Ugly Seeds” in people’s minds. Only now they are NOT seeds. They are facts.

Bystander: But, for those "with it" enough to see the venom that drips off of your collection of posts, they will come to this conclusion: That if you had such evidence you would not be sitting on it. You would have hit the door of the 3abn ministry with storm troopers in tow.

Fran: So my “venom is dripping”. I really must get a napkin.

Fran: I do not beat people’s doors down. I would never enter the 3ABN compound. I would be a nervous wreck watching my back from the true “Venom dripping from management” about Linda.

Fran: People say, “If you jump into a snake pit, you will eventually get bitten.”

Fran: By the way, who said I was sitting on anything. I believe in full disclosure. Obviously you are afraid of it. You are the one sitting on information. If you had evidence about Linda, you would have a 3ABN Today, Thursday nights, 2 hour program putting it on display!


Bystander: Again, that shows me, that this was just one of many dishonest scenarios painted by you as if they were fact. Your ifs, ands, and buts, are killers.

Fran: I will try to find time this week end to put some facts from the IL vs. 3ABN Property Tax Lawsuit and some of those silly little notes that drip with venom. That would be your venom, not mine, since 3ABN prepared those telling notes attached to the IRS Form 990’s. However, I can’t reveal all, since these facts will come forward at a later time. Besides, if you knew what all I had, you would destroy all the evidence and act like you had no idea what had happened.


Bystander: ” You say “God put you here to help expose all of the errant ways of the 3ABN financial department”, then why aren't you there.

Fran: Please! I was put here to slap 3ABN into shape? Give me a break. That is pitiful. However, God did bring it to my attention in a mighty way. When I saw that Trust Funds were being “forgotten” and were “falling in the cracks,” I realized I had to do something about it.

Fran: When I saw that money given to other ministries was posted as 3ABN donations, I became disgusted. I have been screaming ever since! I have been crude, rude and blunt. I have not been politically correct by choice. Those with grace and who can say the “right” words are doing that part. That is not the place for me. Get in my way and I will tell you to move. All that politically correct garbage leaves everyone wondering just what was said. I do not believe you will have a problem understanding my opinions.

Bystander: Being on this little website won't accomplish anything.

Fran: Wrong. It has kept this alive for 3 years! It has withstood all the red herrings and smoke screens coming from your department. Never under estimate the power of God to reveal even more and more. In fact, you should be prepared for it.

Bystander: If you have the credentials to teach their accounting office then go there and do so.

Fran: Is this a personal invite? I have to pass. You cannot teach anything to those who already know it all.

Bystander: For me and many others listening to the credentials of the chief financial officer on the 3ABN live a week ago is enough for me. He worked for years for the Waterhouse investing firm, one of the biggest in the world, as well as several other esteemed financial institutions. By reports from those who know him personally, he is viewed as a wonderful and sincere Christian with the utmost integrity. Those that know him and his family closely say he would never ever do anything dishonest or underhanded in any way.

Fran: Let me see; was that his signature on that fraudulent receipt I received? I will check and let you know.

Bystander: Now, you start out that the divorce is not what you are about. That Danny or Linda is not what you are about. Then you make a statement that you would not be counted "worthy" to pass Linda's test? Fran, my, my. That statement is so obviously "hero worship" that it should be the definition placed in Webster's dictionary.

Fran: No it is not idol worship. She shines much brighter than I do. That is real. Anyone that could take what she has been dealt is a saint! I’m not that at all. If Danny did that to me, I would be screaming at the top of my lungs and telling everything to anyone who would listen. But that is me. She IS better than me in that sense. She is greater than Danny in that sense too. Every time he opens his mouth to spew his poisonous venom at Linda, all it does it does is slap Danny right in the face!

Bystander: I also noticed in a previous post by you (if I am incorrect just tell me) where you made the statement that Goldie is not here to save them now. Or something to that affect. I assume you meant by "Goldie" that you were referring to the Shelton's mother.

Fran: Yes, I was referring to the Shelton’s mother.

Bystander: If so, what did you mean by save them? What authority or power did she hold that she could "save them, or anyone;" just curious.

Fran: Was she a mother? That says it all.

Bystander, maybe to HOTY: I agree with your opinion of what the girl thought later. It has been 10 or 12 years and I am sure she already does. I might disagree about informing the people that work around him for this reason.. it was quite some time ago,

Bystander: I believe he went through counseling as part of his rehabilitation and most of all because this was a one time incident and has never happened again. Just a matter of opinion I guess.

Fran: Are you sure he was “Successfully” treated and it has never happened again?

Bystander: But the release of this info from HOTY was to imply that 3abn is lax in who they hire while I wholeheartedly agree It was good of them to give him a chance.

Fran: I am a mother. He would have had to receive a second chance elsewhere. You know, like where there are no children? I agree that 3ABN has made serious mistakes in their hiring policy. They need a new policy manual with guidance from a professional who gives a crap about kids! 3ABN has proven they don't!

My replies are within the quote. I did a grammar check and a spell check and made corrections. I supplied the color to separate Bystander's comments from mine. I also broke the post in pieces so each comment could be replied to. Please excuse Bystander's and my mistakes.

[Bystander]

3ABN Jan 2007 Letter…..
My replies are within the quote. I did a grammar check and a spell check and made corrections. I supplied the color to separate Bystander's comments from mine. I also broke the post in pieces so each comment could be replied to. Please excuse Bystander's and my mistakes.

You said "I would have no trouble understanding your opinions." I have all kinds of trouble. You are saying these are court documents and 990's so why are you and you alone the only one that has found these errors. You say you have been screaming ect ect to who? Obviously not to the right people. I am sure it would be hard for you to believe but I am quite sure that more qualified people than even you have been through thousands of 3ABN records and have found no purposeful wrong doing, including carmalita Troy who has enough qualifications in finance to choke a horse..That, my friend, is good enough for me.

[Pickle]

Bystander,

Could you please explicitly state on what dates and for what lengths of time Carmelita Troy examined the books of 3ABN, and explicitly state to what extent she was allowed to examine them. Please tell us what questions she asked for clarification and what answers she received.

I will call your bluff: Danny threatened Gailon months ago with a lawsuit, but there has yet to be anything filed whatsoever, and no letter from Riva has been sent to him that I am aware of. I have yet to be threatened at all.

Consider the stark contrast between these facts and the nasty letter that Mike Riva sent the board of the Dunn Loring Church of God congregation. Why the difference in treatment? Because Gailon has made it pretty clear that if he gets sued, he will launch legal discovery, and Danny really would not want the books opened up to that kind of process.

The truth of the matter is that if Danny wants to squelch the financial impropriety allegations against him, he should allow Gailon to look at anything he wants to. If Gailon can't find anything, then there must not be anything there. That's the best argument Danny could ever trumpet to the world.

Personally, I find it absolutely despicable that Danny would be willing to take anyone and everyone down with him, including the likes of Carmelita Troy. With a specialty in fraud detection, what will all this do to her career if all the allegations are aired in a major, public way?

If Danny really cared about Carmelita Troy, he would do his utmost to clear the air of all these allegations, and the only way he can effectively do that, since he given evidence that he is a bald-faced liar on at least three occasions that I am aware of, is to allow a free and open investigation of the books by a competent investigator who has no conflict of interest, such as Gailon Arthur Joy.

[September]

I am very sorry for that, and while that may be true, it doesn't mean that was the case in West frankfort, or that the incident with Mr Dunning did happen as is claimed...

Comments like that are why victims are afraid to come forward! I'm afriad that what I described happens more often than not because a perpetrator will try to discredit everything that their victim says in an effort to make the VICTIM look guilty--even in the slightest sense.

[NormF]

You said "I would have no trouble understanding your opinions." I have all kinds of trouble. You are saying these are court documents and 990's so why are you and you alone the only one that has found these errors. You say you have been screaming ect ect to who? Obviously not to the right people. I am sure it would be hard for you to believe but I am quite sure that more qualified people than even you have been through thousands of 3ABN records and have found no purposeful wrong doing, including carmalita Troy who has enough qualifications in finance to choke a horse..That, my friend, is good enough for me.

"I have all kinds of trouble ..." Well said; that I could believe.

Bystander, do you know what a forensic accountant is? And do you know what it takes to serve with distinction at the GAO in that capacity, and earn major citations for excellence over a long and distinguished career?

You really should make a better effort to know who and what you're up against when you cut loose with those barrages ... and maybe also, what is and isn't "good enough." (My condolences to your horse.)

Regards,
Norm

[Observer]

Most of us are aware that this website has given Danny, 3-ABN, and all who defend them full freedom to post whatever they wish here.

O.K.

Now 3-ABN has posted on their website one version of the letter that Harold Lance sent out stating why ASI pulled out. I have stated that Harold's letters contains factual errors. I wonder what the response would be if I were to request that 3-ABN post a response from me in which I detailed the factual errors in that letter!


By the way, as both Bob Pickle, and Gailon Joy are named in that posting, and both also claim it contains what I call errors, does anyone think that 3-ABN would allow their response to be posted?

Can we expect 3-ABN to do for us what we do for them?

Now back to another subject.

[Johann]

- - -
I am sure it would be hard for you to believe but I am quite sure that more qualified people than even you have been through thousands of 3ABN records and have found no purposeful wrong doing, including carmalita Troy who has enough qualifications in finance to choke a horse..That, my friend, is good enough for me.

When I mentioned this problem to Carmelita she told me that she had checked with the auditors, and they had told her all was OK - if I understood her right. But she said that she would look into things if someone would point out the problem to her. Has that been done?

[eye witness]

Bystander,

Could you please explicitly state on what dates and for what lengths of time Carmelita Troy examined the books of 3ABN, and explicitly state to what extent she was allowed to examine them. Please tell us what questions she asked for clarification and what answers she received.

I will call your bluff: Danny threatened Gailon months ago with a lawsuit, but there has yet to be anything filed whatsoever, and no letter from Riva has been sent to him that I am aware of. I have yet to be threatened at all.

Consider the stark contrast between these facts and the nasty letter that Mike Riva sent the board of the Dunn Loring Church of God congregation. Why the difference in treatment? Because Gailon has made it pretty clear that if he gets sued, he will launch legal discovery, and Danny really would not want the books opened up to that kind of process.

The truth of the matter is that if Danny wants to squelch the financial impropriety allegations against him, he should allow Gailon to look at anything he wants to. If Gailon can't find anything, then there must not be anything there. That's the best argument Danny could ever trumpet to the world.

Personally, I find it absolutely despicable that Danny would be willing to take anyone and everyone down with him, including the likes of Carmelita Troy. With a specialty in fraud detection, what will all this do to her career if all the allegations are aired in a major, public way?

If Danny really cared about Carmelita Troy, he would do his utmost to clear the air of all these allegations, and the only way he can effectively do that, since he given evidence that he is a bald-faced liar on at least three occasions that I am aware of, is to allow a free and open investigation of the books by a competent investigator [b]who has no conflict of interest, such as Gailon Arthur Joy.[/b]

Pickle, WHAT HAVE I MISSED HERE? Again, what are the credentials OF THE COMPETENT INVESTIGATOR, GAILON ARTHUR JOY?? How many indictments for embezzlement did he have? Was it 28? Or was it more? Gailon Arthur Joy reminds me of "Inspector Clouseau" the Pink Panther. Who has no conflict of interest? Get real Pickle.

[sister]

You said "I would have no trouble understanding your opinions." I have all kinds of trouble. You are saying these are court documents and 990's so why are you and you alone the only one that has found these errors. You say you have been screaming ect ect to who? Obviously not to the right people. I am sure it would be hard for you to believe but I am quite sure that more qualified people than even you have been through thousands of 3ABN records and have found no purposeful wrong doing, including carmalita Troy who has enough qualifications in finance to choke a horse..That, my friend, is good enough for me.

Bystander, how do you know what you said is factual? Another question, since you claim to know so much: Did Carmalita Troy do a Forensic Audit on the 3ABN books or like the other 3ABN board members has she only gone over the financial report submitted within the Board meetings, three times a year?

This post has been edited by sister: Jan 28 2007, 10:40 AM