Class Action Suit, by victims of Dan's harassment Options

[Clay]

I believe I told you there are documents and receipts for such counseling. You did not answer as to the original source of how you came to that conclusion.

Simple.... Danny came here and said that they had received counseling. Linda and others indicated that no such counseling took place. Since Danny's first contact with BSDA was a lie, i.e. I love Linda so much, then in a heartbeat he is getting a divorce in Guam, those actions are NOT the actions of one who loves someone... In fact most men who are deeply in love usually refuse to let go at the first sign of trouble, they hold on indefinitely.... Danny did the exact opposite.... The lie was compounded when the grounds for divorce were stated to be spiritual adultery....

So Bystander any reasonable person can conclude that from the start Danny's explanation of things was suspect and his credibility questionable... however I suspect you have an explanation that can clear this up, please share....

[Lee]

To answer the question of Clay and Johann about counseling, I will repeat the quote below:

Chairman of the board= Walt Thompson, his statement follows.
http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s...=10845&st=0
"In early March Danny called me. He was very distraught as he told me what
Linda was doing. I immediately traveled to 3abn to find out for myself, and
for the next two to three months was there for a few days almost every week.
During this time I and a small committee of the board had a number of
sessions with Linda, encouraging her to break off the relationship that was
ruining her home and putting a serious strain on the ministry. Pastor John
L. was one of the first to counsel Linda. From the start, before meeting
with Danny and Linda together he warned Linda that what she was doing was
wrong, and must stop. He then spent hours counseling the two of them
together. I am not sure how many other sessions were had. When I arrived, I
arranged for Pastor John, Linda and Danny and I to meet together. We met,
talked and prayed. Both Danny and Linda were anointed, and committed to God
to do what was right. Linda promised us to cut off the relationship. Not
long (I don't remember the length of time, but probably less than an hour)
she was secretly on the phone to Norway with the doctor again. We had other
sessions with her where she reluctantly made similar agreements, but usually
said she was not going to give him up until she was sure Danny would stop
interfering in her affairs - as if it was Danny's fault they were having
trouble. On one occasion I was able to get the doctor on the phone. I begged
him to break of the relationship. He told me he would not. We arranged for
Danny and Linda to visit a marriage counselor couple out of state. They were
not Adventist, but devout Christians of another faith. They were chosen so
that Linda could not claim that they were biased, if Adventist. Danny and
Linda spent eight hours with the counselors. They were the one's who told
Linda she was committing "spiritual adultery" and that it was wrong and must
be stopped at once. She made excuses, said she was doing nothing wrong. They
warned her that the way she was going it would soon become physical."

Now you all need to put on your glasses and really look at the evidence instead of calling people liars. Why should Bystander or I have to present the evidence to you all the time when you can do it yourself.

Here is what Linda said herself:

Original statement from Linda Shelton. on July 23, 2004:
http://web.archive.org/web/20040723022959/...org/letters.php
"Weren't there many, many people that I counseled with
concerning this problem? The only formal counsel I ever received
during this entire episode was that of my local pastor, a husband and wife
team of counselors and the Chairman of the 3ABN Board. That's all. But
the problem was bigger than the counsel could relieve."


This post has been edited by Lee: Feb 8 2007, 08:32 AM

[Clay]

To answer the question of Clay and Johann about counseling, I will repeat the quote below:

Chairman of the board= Walt Thompson, his statement follows.
http://www.blacksda.com/forums/index.php?s...=10845&st=0
"In early March Danny called me. He was very distraught as he told me what
Linda was doing. I immediately traveled to 3abn to find out for myself, and
for the next two to three months was there for a few days almost every week.
During this time I and a small committee of the board had a number of
sessions with Linda, encouraging her to break off the relationship that was
ruining her home and putting a serious strain on the ministry. Pastor John
L. was one of the first to counsel Linda. snip.....

Lee,
I do not consider Walt Thompson to be a credible source. In my opinion he has lied, and on more than one occasion.... so anything he says I am not likely to believe. You may choose to believe him. I do not...

Additionally, and I said this 3 yrs ago, if you know anything about counseling you know that the best chance for success is if both people choose a counselor together. All those people at 3abn should have never been chosen because they were to close to the situation. Likewise its one thing if Danny stood up and said I am taking you to get counseling vs, we need to get counseling. If you force a person into counseling against their will, success will be minimal. It is apparent that Danny attempted to "get" Linda counseling from those people in the immediate area, those people who were loyal to Danny... I have a problem with that....

[Observer]

Re: Differences of perception.

Let us lighten up, and I will illustrate with a personal example.

Yesterday I was sitting in my car at a stop light waiting for the light to change.

The driver behind me got distracted and ran into my vehicle.

We each gave a written statement to the police. The other driver stated that she ran into me 20 minutes earlier than the time I said she ran into me.

Big deal. Differences do happen. The fact that we differ on the time of the accident does not mean that she did not run into me while I was stopped at a triffic light.

The police investigated, and determined that there was an accident in which she ran into me.

She did not lie. I did not lie. Yet, the exact time of the accident is in dispute, unless reference is made to the time of the 911 telephone call. That will settle it, more or less.

[Lee]

Clay, did you bother to read the post below Walts? It was written by Linda herself...

In case you didn't read it, here it is AGAIN (yes, please put on your glasses and read it very carefully)

[b]Original statement from Linda Shelton. on July 23, 2004:

"Weren't there many, many people that I counseled with
concerning this problem? The only formal counsel I ever received
during this entire episode was that of my local pastor, a husband and wifeteam of counselors and the Chairman of the 3ABN Board. That's all. But
the problem was bigger than the counsel could relieve."

You may read it yourself here:

http://web.archive.org/web/20040723022959/...org/letters.php

After you have read it, read it AGAIN. Perhaps the truth will then dawn on you.

Oh yes, I forgot, someone said Linda say's now she had no counsel at all. My goodness, what happened? Did she change her mind or perhaps she decided if she said it enough, it might be true. Unfortunately for her, it is all documented evidence and so no matter what she says, history cannot be erased. Neither can you erase it.

BTW, Dr. Thompson is NOT a liar. Better be careful what you say.

[Clay]

Clay, did you bother to read the post below Walts? It was written by Linda herself...

In case you didn't read it, here it is AGAIN (yes, please put on your glasses and read it very carefully)

[b]Original statement from Linda Shelton. on July 23, 2004:

"Weren't there many, many people that I counseled with
concerning this problem? The only formal counsel I ever received
during this entire episode was that of my local pastor, a husband and wifeteam of counselors and the Chairman of the 3ABN Board. That's all. But
the problem was bigger than the counsel could relieve."

You may read it yourself here:

http://web.archive.org/web/20040723022959/...org/letters.php

After you have read it, read it AGAIN. Perhaps the truth will then dawn on you.

Oh yes, I forgot, someone said Linda say's now she had no counsel at all. My goodness, what happened? Did she change her mind or perhaps she decided if she said it enough, it might be true. Unfortunately for her, it is all documented evidence and so no matter what she says, history cannot be erased. Neither can you erase it.

BTW, Dr. Thompson is NOT a liar. Better be careful what you say.

Lee,
I did read it and I really don't appreciate your inference that I need to put my glasses on, as if I missed something the first time around, if you knew me you would know I already have them on.... did you comprehend what I said about the concept of counseling? Lomacang is not qualified to counsel... Linda's statement does not suggest hours and hours counseling.

How do you know Thompson is not a liar, are you married to him? Do you know him so intimately that you can say with certainty that he has not lied? I am a grown man and I can say whatever I chose to say.... my impression, he is a liar... and you may tell him I said it, if he wants to speak to me about it, tell him how he can contact me...

[Denny]

Lee I see no reason why Thompson's versions of events should be taken as the definitive version. to me its just more fodder for ' He said, she said. From the beginning they were not neutral they took Danny's version from the beginning as The Truth their minds were not open.


"In early March Danny called me. He was very distraught as he told me what
Linda was doing. I immediately traveled to 3abn to find out for myself, and
for the next two to three months was there for a few days almost every week.
During this time I and a small committee of the board had a number of
sessions with Linda, encouraging her to break off the relationship that was
ruining her home and putting a serious strain on the ministry."

We now know Linda was seeking treatment for her son without her husband's support, did it not occur to the commite why Danny was not supporting her?

[Observer]

O. K. Linda is supposed to have said once that she had counseling, and in another place that she did not: Let us look at the following statement for a moment:

Re: "The only formal counsel I ever received
during this entire episode was that of my local pastor, a husband and wife
team of counselors and the Chairman of the 3ABN Board. That's all. But
the problem was bigger than the counsel could relieve."

Let us focus on the part which states that she was counseled by the Chairperson of the Board, whom we know to be Dr. Thompson.

Who/what is Dr. Thompson? He is a physician, and as I understand, a surgeon. He is clearly licensed and competent in those areas. However, I am not aware of him haveing any expertese in the field of counseling. He may have had many rich life experiences. But, I am not aware of him either having any specialized training in counseling, or any field experience in that area.

O.K

Dr. Thompson was the Chair of the 3-ABN Executive Board. As such, in relating to Linda, the expectation would be that he would related to her in terms of reference of the position of the 3-ABN Executive Board. In that role, it would be an ethical violation for him to attempt to relate to her from the stance of a disinterested party.

Professional counselors will typically help a person to explore the issues, consequences, and then make up their own mind. I.e. they will not attempt to force another into a specific mode of action. Dr. Thompson due to his role on the Executive Board, could not fill the role of a professional counselor.

Over a period of time, Linda has obtained a richer understanding of what professional counselors do. It is quite understandable that Linda might once have said that she recieved counseling from X, and at a later time, with a richer understanding of what counselors do, would now say that she did not.

Yes, in once sense, Dr. Thompson probable did counsel Linda. He may have said: Linda, you need to immediately do X, Y, and Z. If you do not do such, I am here to tell you that the 3-ABN Board will do Y to you. If you want to call that counseling, O.K. But, that is not professional counseling in the sense that Linda should have recieved.

Now, as to other people: It may be assumed that every counselor who was arranged by 3-ABN was selected because it was believed that they would advise Linda to do what 3-ABN wanted them to do. Marital counseling is not generally effective when one party selects the counselor. Marital counseling must be a joint effort, and not one dictated by a party on the other side.

NOTE: In regard to SDA pastors being competent to provide counseling: Very few are competent. SDA pastors have their place. But, few are qualified to give in depth couseling. e.g. They may know First Aid, but are probably not qualified to deliver a child. In an emergency situation, I would deliver a child. But, I would never hire myself out to you to do so.

NOTE: In my telephone conversation a few minutes ago, my wife told me of a woman who went into labor. Due to fog her husband was never able to find the hospital. She delivered in the car attended by unqualified people. That is why I picked my illustration.

[Clay]

thank you Greg, you summarized that quite nicely....

[princessdi]

The statement below does not constitute counselling. meeting with Linda trying to "convince" her to do what they thought should be done, according to information given by Danny. Is this what they were calling the counselling sessions? I am honestly asking Lee, Bystander or whoever knows, for clarification.

"In early March Danny called me. He was very distraught as he told me what
Linda was doing. I immediately traveled to 3abn to find out for myself, and
for the next two to three months was there for a few days almost every week.
During this time I and a small committee of the board had a number of
sessions with Linda, encouraging her to break off the relationship that was
ruining her home and putting a serious strain on the ministry."

[Denny]

The statement below does not constitute counselling. meeting with Linda trying to "convince" her to do what they thought should be done, according to information given by Danny. Is this what they were calling the counselling sessions? I am honestly asking Lee, Bystander or whoever knows, for clarification.

Too true, if thats called counselling then I'm a brain surgeon....

[Lee]

From the same letter from Walt Thompson:

"It simply could not continue the way things were going. Though I and the board did not get involved in the marriage, we were very much concerned about the ministry. All the while, this was taking a real toll on the ministry. Work was not getting done. The employees were pulled in both directions. Finally, I sent Linda a registered letter (she was not answering my e mails or phone calls). In it I told her that WE WERE OFFERING TO SEND HER AWAY FOR COUNSELING TO **A PLACE AND WITH PEOPLE MUTUALLY ACCEPTABLEe.** I told her that if she would not accept our offer and find help to get rid of the doctor, we would have to consider removing her from her positions. SHE DID NOT RESPOND to my letter."

like Fox news says "We report it, you decide!"

[sonshineonme]

From the same letter from Walt Thompson:

"It simply could not continue the way things were going. Though I and the board did not get involved in the marriage, we were very much concerned about the ministry. All the while, this was taking a real toll on the ministry. Work was not getting done. The employees were pulled in both directions. Finally, I sent Linda a registered letter (she was not answering my e mails or phone calls). In it I told her that WE WERE OFFERING TO SEND HER AWAY FOR COUNSELING TO **A PLACE AND WITH PEOPLE MUTUALLY ACCEPTABLEe.** I told her that if she would not accept our offer and find help to get rid of the doctor, we would have to consider removing her from her positions. SHE DID NOT RESPOND to my letter."

like Fox news says "We report it, you decide!"

You can't possibly put yourself in her shoes, can you? You seriously think she should submit herself to someone they would PICK by this point? She sees the writing on the wall - she knows what he has done to prejedice all sources around. She knows she has no real open fair place to go. If you go to counseling and your mate does all the talking to convice the counselor, and that counselor is CONVINCED without listening to both of you fairly (and yes, there are counselors like this, I am personally aware of this) don't you see by now, she knows what ds is trying to do - make her admit to something that she did not do. No one has listened to her, and ds is set to get someone, at some level, and the levels keep going up, to TELL her to STOP something that is not wrong. No one really gets to hear just from her. They only hear what ds wants them to hear and believe, and if you haven't figured this out by now, you will not get it. God help you that you should never be in a situation like this. He was on a mission, and he knew how to get it done so it looked "right". Who ever it took, however it needed to be. He was not going to be wrong. ds is never wrong. it's not in his make up. So, he blocks the people that can explain and show he is WRONG, but he won't hear of that....he seeks to find people to do just what he needs. He is not interested in resolving anything, he is interested in ENDING something.

[calvin]

From the same letter from Walt Thompson:

In it I told her that WE WERE OFFERING TO SEND HER AWAY FOR COUNSELING TO **A PLACE AND WITH PEOPLE MUTUALLY ACCEPTABLEe.**

Ok, the offer was a counselor mutually acceptable. That seems fair. There where having problems with their marriage.

Now Sonshineonme are you saying a professional counselor could not handle Danny? I find that argument weak.

You can't possibly put yourself in her shoes, can you? You seriously think she should submit herself to someone they would PICK by this point? She sees the writing on the wall - she knows what he has done to prejedice all sources around. She knows she has no real open fair place to go. If you go to counseling and your mate does all the talking to convice the counselor, and that counselor is CONVINCED without listening to both of you fairly (and yes, there are counselors like this, I am personally aware of this) don't you see by now, she knows what ds is trying to do - make her admit to something that she did not do. No one has listened to her, and ds is set to get someone, at some level, and the levels keep going up, to TELL her to STOP something that is not wrong. No one really gets to hear just from her. They only hear what ds wants them to hear and believe, and if you haven't figured this out by now, you will not get it. God help you that you should never be in a situation like this. He was on a mission, and he knew how to get it done so it looked "right". Who ever it took, however it needed to be. He was not going to be wrong. ds is never wrong. it's not in his make up. So, he blocks the people that can explain and show he is WRONG, but he won't hear of that....he seeks to find people to do just what he needs. He is not interested in resolving anything, he is interested in ENDING something.

[fallible humanbe...]

. . . You seriously think she should submit herself to someone they would PICK by this point? . . .

It is clear that this was not the case. Again from the letter written by Dr. Thompson:

"It simply could not continue the way things were going. Though I and the board did not get involved in the marriage, we were very much concerned about the ministry. All the while, this was taking a real toll on the ministry. Work was not getting done. The employees were pulled in both directions. Finally, I sent Linda a registered letter (she was not answering my e mails or phone calls). In it I told her that WE WERE OFFERING TO SEND HER AWAY FOR COUNSELING TO **A PLACE AND WITH PEOPLE MUTUALLY ACCEPTABLE.** I told her that if she would not accept our offer and find help to get rid of the doctor, we would have to consider removing her from her positions. SHE DID NOT RESPOND to my letter."

The BoD in an effort to do what it could to help Danny and Linda save their marriage and save the network from the problems that would come from a divorce offered to pay for and facilitate in any way a counseling opportunity that BOTH Danny and Linda would agree to. Dr. Thompson did not offer to find the counselors, to even suggest some good options, he told her that the BoD would do all they could to help heal the rift between Danny and Linda (and it seems clear here that Dr. Thompson sees the boards role as providing the financial resources and any logisitical support needed). Linda refused by ignoring the offer. Why is this so hard to accept? Linda didn't want to take this opportunity - I don't portend to know what her thoughts were and why she would choose not to, but the facts are clear. She had the opportunity to find a counselor or counselor team that she and Danny would both be comfortable with - the ball was in her court and it appears she was recalcitrant.


- fhb

This post has been edited by fallible humanbeing: Feb 8 2007, 12:36 PM