Thursday Night "live" 2-15-07, Fact or Fiction? Options

[sister]

Being a woman of a curious nature, I turned on my television set tonight to view the "live" program on 3ABN. There sat Danny with Mollie at his side, surrounded by his loyal minions. The first hour was a promotion for the Ten Commandments weekend planned for Chicago this year. No new information, other than this year the number of free books has been limited, but of course unlimited copies are available for a fee. And you can now buy their t-shirts in additional colors and this year there are baseball caps and tote bags available for purchase. And then, just preceding the break before the second hour, glowing reports of 3ABN were read by each one present, followed by an introduction for the major topic of the second hour: the falsehoods and allegations leveled against 3ABN on the internet. This topic was covered in the next forty minutes.

I will not go into detail in this report, but I will say that every attempt was made to discredit Adventist Today for their most recent coverage of 3ABN. Shelley Quinn made a comment that suggested a comparison between AToday and the National Enquirer. After a through trashing of AToday, Danny continued on about a "small group of Adventist" that are making all sorts of accusations against 3ABN on the internet, he than continued to trash this group. Danny brought up the "false" allegations that have been made about his brother, Tommy. After continuing to discredit those who oppose him, Dan offered to step down, then immediately changed his mind and said there was no sense in doing that because than they would ask that Mollie be removed, than Walt Thompson and finally the Board. Of course I agree with the removal of those he mentioned, beginning with Danny, but unfortunately his brief offer to step down was so quickly rescinded. And YADA, YADA, YADA....

There is one specific area I would like to address: donations. Danny has been claiming all along that donations at 3ABN have been increasing and that anything that has been written on the internet that contradicts that is a lie. Now, tonight be admits that donations are down, and in true 3ABN beg-a-thon style encourages the faithful to open up there pocketbooks wider and make up the slack of those who have quit giving. So taking all of this in to consideration, WHO HAS REALLY BEEN LYING ABOUT THE DONATION SITUATION AT 3ABN? Has "The Man" himself just vindicated the opposition with his own statements?

If you are interested in watching the circus for yourself, there is a repeat Sunday afternoon.

Sister

[Ralph]

If you are interested in watching the circus for yourself, there is a repeat Sunday afternoon.

Sister

Thanks for the critique, Sister. I do not want 3ABN to go down, and I think almost everyone on BSDA agrees with that. Some changes? Most certainly. But to lose 3ABN? No way. I was saddened that Danny implied that anyone had such a thought.

I will transcribe some of the discussion, but not tonight. There are some specific points that I want to see in print so they don't slide by so quickly.

I think people should be encouraged to review the next showing. I know for sure that if people have access to Internet, they will be doing some serious reading.

Ralph

[Lee]

Danny said only RECENTLY the donations were down, like in the last month or so. All ministries ask for money--what is so new about that?

I thought the program was done well. Everyone was very kind in what they said. I thought they were very Christ-like considering how much they could have said.

And when the "little group" was mentioned, it as not BSDA. BSDA was not mentioned by name or talked about at all. He was speaking of Pickle/Joy and their web site. That was obvious.

And it is true--the fruits are what we are to look at.

Ralph, look back at the posts on here. Several people have said they wish for the whole 3ABN to close down and tell everyone to watch Hope instead. You can find them on here if you look.

This post has been edited by Lee: Feb 15 2007, 11:31 PM

[Aletheia]

I on the otherhand don't share Sister's negative view or judgments...

I think it was a difficult subject to address, and they handled it beautifully. I would invite all to watch the repeat.

And would ask the same question to lurkers and readers here that was asked on the program tonight.


What are the fruits of 3ABN's ministry? and what are the fruits of her accusers?

They claim they are trying to save 3ABN, but their works deny that. They are trying to destroy the ministry, by slander, libel, by trying to get the 3ABN ministry taken off the air and cable stations, and by trying to block funding and donations...


I say let your conscience be your guide, and don't just judge based on one side of the story.


Walk away from rumors...

Follow the Lamb of God. He went thataway --------->

This post has been edited by Aletheia: Feb 15 2007, 11:37 PM

[SoulEspresso]

I did not get a chance to view the program.

But you raise a good point about fruits--if all or even some of the people the Lord used 3ABN to win are turned off to spiritual things by all these allegations, that's tragic. If the allegations are false, it's the propagators of such that are wrong. But if it's Danny & Co, well ...

And we're not even talking about the experience of the young men who say they were propositioned ... that's as bad or worse! (Does anyone here know any male that would make something like that up? I don't, no matter how much one man has against another!)

We'll have to wait until things are more firmly established than the hearsay that apparently was broadcast over the airwaves tonight ...

I hope Linda's letter calling for the opening of evidence is heeded, then the spin machine will finally slow down ...

This post has been edited by SoulEspresso: Feb 18 2007, 01:37 AM

[awesumtenor]

Danny said only RECENTLY the donations were down, like in the last month or so. All ministries ask for money--what is so new about that?

I thought the program was done well. Everyone was very kind in what they said. I thought they were very Christ-like considering how much they could have said.

And when the "little group" was mentioned, it as not BSDA. BSDA was not mentioned by name or talked about at all. He was speaking of Pickle/Joy and their web site. That was obvious.

And it is true--the fruits are what we are to look at.

Ralph, look back at the posts on here. Several people have said they wish for the whole 3ABN to close down and tell everyone to watch Hope instead. You can find them on here if you look.

Translation: yes, Rev. Jones, I would *love* some kool-aid...

In His service,
Mr. J

[erik]

I on the otherhand don't share Sister's negative view or judgments...

I think it was a difficult subject to address, and they handled it beautifully. I would invite all to watch the repeat.

And would ask the same question to lurkers and readers here that was asked on the program tonight.
What are the fruits of 3ABN's ministry? and what are the fruits of her accusers?

They claim they are trying to save 3ABN, but their works deny that. They are trying to destroy the ministry, by slander, libel, by trying to get the 3ABN ministry taken off the air and cable stations, and by trying to block funding and donations...
I say let your conscience be your guide, and don't just judge based on one side of the story.
Walk away from rumors...

Follow the Lamb of God. He went thataway --------->

For a Lady you claims truth is her only passion, you have really turned into quite the "lackey"
Why are you so sure that the leadership of 3abn is pure has the driven snow?

I would add that linda has ask for the truth to come forward so bring lets get this mess done with before 3 abn is in fact destroyed by current leadership, if at this point they have nothing to hide then put out the proof now that linda has called them out, if they do not then all will see that the leadership of 3abn has lied for years.


Erik

[PeacefulBe]

^
l
l
l
Sorry, Al_etheia, The Lamb Of God went this way.

[Ralph]

I say let your conscience be your guide, and don't just judge based on one side of the story.
Walk away from rumors...

Aletheia, you are right. Conscience has to be our guide. The big problem that I am facing is summarized in James 3:11 where James asks, "Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?"

I believe that many souls have been saved through the work of 3ABN, and I want that to continue. And yet we see a leader who, on one hand appears to be saving souls and yet on the other hand appears to have a very dark side.

[awesumtenor]

I on the otherhand don't share Sister's negative view or judgments...

No you don't; you have your own negative view and judgements...

I think it was a difficult subject to address, and they handled it beautifully. I would invite all to watch the repeat.

And would ask the same question to lurkers and readers here that was asked on the program tonight.
What are the fruits of 3ABN's ministry? and what are the fruits of her accusers?

You need to get a new straw man, Cindy; this one is worn out. Lurkers and readers would be mindful to read the first several chapters of the book of 1st Samuel; there we have a very similar situation of ministers living contrary to the law of God with the minister who was supposed to have oversight of them unwilling to execute that fiduciary duty and reprove them because of his personal connection to them... we know that all of the ministers connected to the overall ministry were not corrupt and we know that, in spite of their flaws, their ministry bore some fruit for it was under their ministry that Hannah's prayer was heard and God opened her womb and she bore Samuel...

So just as with 3abn, there are ministers with issues that put them at variance with God and in spite of those issues there are people who have derived blessing under that ministry...

But in 1st Sam, that derived blessing did not remove the stench of those minister's sins from the nostrils of God... and in the fullness of time they paid for said sin with their lives.

In spite of that derived blessing God did not leave those people in place who were, in spite of the derived blessing, not faithful to God in their daily walk because their personal unfaithfulness reached the point to where they desecrated the tabernacle of God.

You keep straining at Gnats and swallowing camels, Cindy... and you keep showing yourself unwilling or unable to see that you are doing it.

They claim they are trying to save 3ABN, but their works deny that. They are trying to destroy the ministry, by slander, libel, by trying to get the 3ABN ministry taken off the air and cable stations, and by trying to block funding and donations...
I say let your conscience be your guide, and don't just judge based on one side of the story.
Walk away from rumors...

Yes... walk away from rumors... like the ones Cindy states above. Demand proof of *BOTH* sides and you will find that one side of this has neither a problem nor any hesitation to provide the basis for what they allege... and the other claims to have proof repeatedly... yet has not produced any... ever...

Follow the Lamb of God. He went thataway --------->

No; that would be the thief and the hireling you are in cahoots with... neither of whom care for the sheep...

In His service,
Mr. J

This post has been edited by awesumtenor: Feb 16 2007, 12:29 AM

[Richard Sherwin]

So who is bent on bringing down 3abn? The people pointing out the sins of it's leadership or the ones doing the sinning?

Those advocating that we encourage people to go to the Hope Channel are only doing so as a tool to facilitate changes at 3abn.

The Kool Aid drinkers need to wake up and smell the coffee....decafe

Richard

I on the otherhand don't share Sister's negative view or judgments...

I think it was a difficult subject to address, and they handled it beautifully. I would invite all to watch the repeat.

And would ask the same question to lurkers and readers here that was asked on the program tonight.
What are the fruits of 3ABN's ministry? and what are the fruits of her accusers?

They claim they are trying to save 3ABN, but their works deny that. They are trying to destroy the ministry, by slander, libel, by trying to get the 3ABN ministry taken off the air and cable stations, and by trying to block funding and donations...
I say let your conscience be your guide, and don't just judge based on one side of the story.
Walk away from rumors...

Follow the Lamb of God. He went thataway --------->

[Aletheia]

So who is bent on bringing down 3abn? The people pointing out the sins of it's leadership or the ones doing the sinning?

Those advocating that we encourage people to go to the Hope Channel are only doing so as a tool to facilitate changes at 3abn.

The Kool Aid drinkers need to wake up and smell the coffee....decafe

Richard

Richard,

The truth is if the concern was only sins, and preserving the ministry then it would have been handled biblically and privately.

Publishing alleged sins and grievous wrongs to the world is not how our Church was told to handle things. Of course it hurts the ministry. Scandal always does.

Calling for people to stop sending donations, and warning them about doing so based on unproven and unfounded accusations, calling stations and cable companies, and asking them to take 3ABN off, or show Hope instead, is not how to save the ministry, it is how you destroy it.

I understand you are saying the purpose as far as you are concerned is to bring about change that you see needs to be made, bUT Jesus said do it another way, Period. Neither He or the apostles did this with the Scribes or Pharisees or the Jewish religion , they did not try to bring down or force change. Nor did our Adventist Pioneers ever engage in such when dealing with error and sin.

God and his people don't use coersion or attempt to force their will on others, they rebuke and reprove and let the holy spirit do the convicting. Satan attempts to force the conscience and will, and those deceived by him do as well.

And good intentions can NEVER justify wrong acts.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. The ends do not justify the means.

All this is antichrist methods and tactics, you see them used for 1260 years during the dark ages, and they are alive and well today.

I understood what Murray said last night. Satan uses any means whatsoever, as he is not limitted by the law of love in what he can do in this spiritual War. God and his people take the higher road and so don't have as much resources at their disposal (the bottom line however is God wins in the end for his ways are right)

3ABN did not name individuals, while of necessity addressing the issues last night, as they have reached the point where all this slander and allegations are hurting the ministry itself, and they have to make a stand before the ministry is destroyed and God's message be limitted or hurt, but they still did so in a a Christlike and caring way that the accusers have NEVER given them.

Not once did they reply defensively of self, not once did they lift up self, it was all about God's work, and the people they are reaching and trying to reach, they defended a ministry of God and gave him the glory.

I appreciated that.

This post has been edited by Aletheia: Feb 16 2007, 07:04 AM

[Richard Sherwin]

All your points have been addressed Biblicly in the past and IMO you are off base. Enjoy your Kool Aid.

Richard

Richard,

The truth is if the concern was only sins, and preserving the ministry then it would have been handled biblically and privately.

Publishing alleged sins and grievous wrongs to the world is not how our Church was told to handle things. Of course it hurts the ministry. Scandal always does.

Calling for people to stop sending donations, and warning them about doing so based on unproven and unfounded accusations, calling stations and cable companies, and asking them to take 3ABN off, or show Hope instead, is not how to save the ministry, it is how you destroy it.

I understand you are saying the puurpose as far as you are concerned is to bring about change that you see needs to be made, bUT Jesus said do it another way, Period. Neither He or the apostles did this with the Scribes or Pharisees or the Jewish religion and meetings etc... Nor did our Adventist Pioneers ever engage in such when dealing with error and sin.

God's people don't use coersion or attempt to force their will on others.

And good intentions can NEVER justify wrong acts.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions, and the ends do not justify the means.

All this is antichrist methods and tactics, you see them used for 1260 years during the dark ages, and they are alive and well today.

I understood what Murray said last night. Satan uses any means whatsoever, as he is not limitted by the law of love in what he can do in this spiritual War. God and his people take the higher road and so don't have as much resources at their disposal (the bottom line however is God wins in the end for his ways are right)

3ABN did not name individuals, while of necessity addressing the issues last night, as they have reached the point where all this slander and allegations are hurting the ministry itself, and they have to make a stand before the ministry is destroyed and God's message be limitted or hurt, but they still did so in a a Christlike and caring way that the accusers have NEVER given them.

Not once did they reply defensively of self, not once did they lift up self, it was all about God's work, and the people they are reaching and trying to reach, they defended a ministry of God and gave him the glory.

I appreciated that.

[SoulEspresso]

Richard,

The truth is if the concern was only sins, and preserving the ministry then it would have been handled biblically and privately. Publishing alleged sins and grievous wrongs to the world is not how our Church was told to handle things. Of course it hurts the ministry. Scandal always does.

Aletheia, I want to believe you're a person of goodwill who is just misinformed. There's a lot of documented evidence, stuff we've all seen firsthand (3ABN publications or letters, etc.) in which Danny went about slandering his ex-wife and saying she committed adultery. Tell me ... was that Christlike? Was that Matthew 18?

This is happening now because the powers at 3ABN refused to respond to Christ's methods. But that doesn't mean that we should let wrongs continue. "Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them." (Eph 5:11)

Not everything that has been said against 3ABN on this site has been in a good spirit, nor has all that has been said against its defenders--including by me. There's no excuse for that--but there's also no excuse for ignoring the firsthand accounts that appear here and on save3abn.com, some of them with names attached. If you want to consider all of it a "he said she said" thing, that's okay--but be prepared to have your own point of view treated the same way.

The pieces fit, what those who work or have worked there say, and the young men who say they were propositioned by Tommy--I believe them because it fits together way better than 3ABN's defense.

Calling for people to stop sending donations, and warning them about doing so based on unproven and unfounded accusations, calling stations and cable companies, and asking them to take 3ABN off, or show Hope instead, is not how to save the ministry, it is how you destroy it.

Well, since a lot of that donated money went to buy horses and a private jet, maybe pulling the plug on the gravy train (how's that for a mixed metaphor?) is the only way to get their attention. 3ABN is not going to go under just because "donations are down."

As far as "unproven and unfounded," again--read here and at save3abn.com. If you choose not to believe, that's up to you, but if you follow the train of logic you can see why some of us believe there's a good cause to believe there are real problems--sins--at 3ABN that need to go away permanently.

God and his people don't use coersion or attempt to force their will on others, they rebuke and reprove and let the holy spirit do the convicting. Satan attempts to force the conscience and will, and those deceived by him do as well.

And good intentions can NEVER justify wrong acts.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. The ends do not justify the means.

All this is antichrist methods and tactics, you see them used for 1260 years during the dark ages, and they are alive and well today.

I understood what Murray said last night. Satan uses any means whatsoever, as he is not limitted by the law of love in what he can do in this spiritual War. God and his people take the higher road and so don't have as much resources at their disposal (the bottom line however is God wins in the end for his ways are right)

So was it the high road for Danny to destroy Linda's reputation without proving his accusations?

3ABN did not name individuals, while of necessity addressing the issues last night, as they have reached the point where all this slander and allegations are hurting the ministry itself, and they have to make a stand before the ministry is destroyed and God's message be limitted or hurt, but they still did so in a a Christlike and caring way that the accusers have NEVER given them.

Not once did they reply defensively of self, not once did they lift up self, it was all about God's work, and the people they are reaching and trying to reach, they defended a ministry of God and gave him the glory.

I appreciated that.

Well, I guess people see things differently. I didn't watch because I didn't have time, but what I heard about the show didn't surprise me. It sounds like more of what I have seen.

I get my hackles up when someone starts talking about "The Lord showed me this, and the Lord showed me that"--because that means I can't disagree with them or I'm going against the Lord. In other words, they say that, but if Scripture or even just plain good sense tells me something else, was it really the Lord who told them?

"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord' ... and I will tell them, 'I never knew you.'" Matthew 7:22-23.

I really believe that if it's the Lord's work Danny & Co are about, they would have stepped aside, let the ministry to someone else, and faced the music until all the notes had finished playing--until the fat lady was finished. If they had, this could have been handled privately, in the spirit of Matthew 18 and the rest of Christ's teachings, and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

This post has been edited by SoulEspresso: Feb 18 2007, 01:40 AM

[västergötland]

I understand you are saying the purpose as far as you are concerned is to bring about change that you see needs to be made, bUT Jesus said do it another way, Period. Neither He or the apostles did this with the Scribes or Pharisees or the Jewish religion , they did not try to bring down or force change. Nor did our Adventist Pioneers ever engage in such when dealing with error and sin.

God and his people don't use coersion or attempt to force their will on others, they rebuke and reprove and let the holy spirit do the convicting. Satan attempts to force the conscience and will, and those deceived by him do as well.

Jesus and the leaders of Israel. He teached them, He argued with them, He warned about them, He rebuked them. They went away and plotted to kill him.



The apostles and the leaders of Israel after Jesus left earth. They teached them, they argued with them, they took a clear stand for God. The leaders of Israel persecuted them.



The apostles and trouble among them selves. They teached, they warned, they carried out the corpses.