Thursday Night "live" 2-15-07, Fact or Fiction? Options

[husbandoftheyear]

Also those I know, who know Danny call him "Danny" not "Dan". I'm only aware of one person who always did so....

It is strange how you portray yourself as a person that is detached from the situation. You say you don't know Dan personally, but post things like the above statement that insinuate you are much closer.

(Nevermind that this statement is absolutely FALSE! There are several people who call him Dan, myself being one. You can check my previous posts. You claim to know one, so that makes two. Mollie also calls Danny by "Dan" as well as several others at the station. Of course, I don't have signed depositions for proof.)

[SoulEspresso]

To divorce your spouse and re-marry while all the issues surronding these actions are still in question should prohibit someone from holding church office, let alone leadership of a worldwide/high-profile ministry. Being under the cloud of unresolved sexual abuse charges should likewise prohibit the holding of a leadership position.

Right--even if the charges are false! Life isn't fair, and it won't be fair for them to have to step down if these allegations really are all false. It'd be tremendously painful. But it's still the right thing to do.

Step down, Danny. If you step down, you're really standing up ... for Jesus.

Unfortunately, in the case of a television ministry the personalities become equated with the ministry. There is an inordinate emphasis on personalities. It can even develop into a "personality cult" - especially if the leaders take on "annointed, chosen of God, prophetic" status. The temptation is for the personalities to think that the ministry could no longer exist without them.

That's just what's happened in some of my churches. It's called idolatry, and it is a sin.

[fallible humanbe...]

I don't understand why Danny just can't tell us his side of the Story. The only reason I figure is that he is guilty of the charges against him.

ID,

It seems as if you will get your wish. If 3ABN is truly willing to enter into legal action, they do so with the intent of presenting their evidence in court. This of course will mean waiting as evidence is exchanged between the two sides and strategy is planned out. So, we will not be seeing it any time soon I would image - but it is obvious it will be known.

- FHB

This post has been edited by fallible humanbeing: Feb 16 2007, 10:34 PM

[erik]

ID,

It seems as if you will get your wish. If 3ABN is truly willing to enter into legal action, they do so with the intent of presenting their evidence in court. This of course will mean waiting as evidence is exchanged between the two sides and strategy is paid out. So, we will not be seeing it any time soon I would image - but it is obvious it will be known.

- FHB

FHB,

IF the Proof is so solid why has 3abn waited and waited to release it, and is now by your own words
waiting to release it until they get into court.

FHB, there are two courts in the modern world one is the legal court the rules there fairly clear, but then there is the court of public option the rules there are even less clear, and i might add often the rulings by these courts is different.

I would think that 3abn would be much more interested int he court of public option, thent he ruling of judge somewhere. They could easily win before judge, and still lose before the people.

Erik

[fallible humanbe...]

Greetings!

There's a lot here to respond to. If you feel I'm dodging, please let me know. I'll try to hit the major points.

Sure. Will you?

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I do have some responding thoughts, but not the time at present to write them - I will come back and respond in full later. I did, however, want to respond to your last question . . . I will.

- FHB

[Daryl Fawcett]

I on the otherhand don't share Sister's negative view or judgments...

I think it was a difficult subject to address, and they handled it beautifully. I would invite all to watch the repeat.

And would ask the same question to lurkers and readers here that was asked on the program tonight.


What are the fruits of 3ABN's ministry? and what are the fruits of her accusers?

They claim they are trying to save 3ABN, but their works deny that. They are trying to destroy the ministry, by slander, libel, by trying to get the 3ABN ministry taken off the air and cable stations, and by trying to block funding and donations...


I say let your conscience be your guide, and don't just judge based on one side of the story.


Walk away from rumors...

Follow the Lamb of God. He went thataway --------->

Trurth isn't slander, which Dr. Walt Thompson said himself in one of the public letters he wrote. Here's the quote:

I don't think it is slander to speak truth, and we have not done anything with the intent to hurt Linda in any way. When people have come to us with questions we have tried to respond intelligently and factually.

Again, by the words of the Chairman of the 3ABN Board himself, "I don't think it is slander to speak truth."

[fallible humanbe...]

FHB,
The comparing linda to the women at the well is at best misleading, for starters that lady at 5 husbands, and was living with some other guy.

Linda has been married twice, and is now living alone.

Secondly Jesus lead her to salvation, from what is known at this time linda is been lead to salavtion by that same jesus.
Erik

Erik,

I am afraid you misunderstood. I wasn't comparing Linda to the woman at the well. I was refering to the story in terms of Christ's actions - not making a huge public display of someones wrong doings. Instead he kept His knowledge of her wrongs between them only and then sent her on to speak of God's love to others. He didn't make a public display and see moved on and ministered to others.

Hope that clears it up.

- FHB

[awesumtenor]

Erik,

I am afraid you misunderstood. I wasn't comparing Linda to the woman at the well. I was refering to the story in terms of Christ's actions - not making a huge public display of someones wrong doings. Instead he kept His knowledge of her wrongs between them only and then sent her on to speak of God's love to others. He didn't make a public display and see moved on and ministered to others.

Hope that clears it up.

- FHB

Luke chapter 7... how did Christ deal with the error in thought and deed of Simon the Pharisee? He pointed to the loving act of the woman of Nain and juxtaposed her actions against Simon's disrespect and haughty thinking... *in public*

You can only say that Christ handled each situation in the manner He knew it should be handled... which meant sometimes he did it privately... and sometimes He did not... cherry-picking a single instance and putting it forth as the only way Christ handled things is not rightly dividing the word.

In His service,
Mr. J

[inga]

Ralph, I believe I understand what you're saying. But I want to hone in a little more closely on the problem ...

Aletheia, you are right. Conscience has to be our guide. The big problem that I am facing is summarized in James 3:11 where James asks, "Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?"

I believe that many souls have been saved through the work of 3ABN,

God has used programs broadcast on 3ABN to speak to people. In that way, souls have undoubtedly been saved.

That's a long step from crediting administrators such as Dan or Mollie with those souls saved. In many cases they had nothing to do with the soul-saving programs, other than providing the broadcast venue, like any other TV station, whether secular or Christian.

And in cases where they did have something to do with the program, let's remember that God can use asses, if need be. I've seen Him use the sermons of evangelists who were totally corrupt, leaving the ministry and God shortly after those sermons. Should the evangelists get the credit or should God get the credit? And God's use of a person or ass or stones, for that matter, does not justify those persons, asses or stones, IMO. Others' take on the matter may differ.

and I want that to continue. And yet we see a leader who, on one hand appears to be saving souls

I suspect this statement was a slip on your part. No one involved with 3ABN saves souls. God saves souls! And He is not dependent on leaders who take the credit to themselves.

and yet on the other hand appears to have a very dark side.

It sounds to me like you do know.

This post has been edited by inga: Feb 16 2007, 12:08 PM

[Grace]

Erik,

I am afraid you misunderstood. I wasn't comparing Linda to the woman at the well. I was refering to the story in terms of Christ's actions - not making a huge public display of someones wrong doings. Instead he kept His knowledge of her wrongs between them only and then sent her on to speak of God's love to others. He didn't make a public display and see moved on and ministered to others.

Hope that clears it up.

- FHB

FHB, I'm a little beat lost, please bear with me. When and where did you tell the story of the woman at the well?

This post has been edited by Grace: Feb 16 2007, 11:32 AM

[Rosyroi]

Luke chapter 7... how did Christ deal with the error in thought and deed of Simon the Pharisee? He pointed to the loving act of the woman of Nain and juxtaposed her actions against Simon's disrespect and haughty thinking... *in public*

You can only say that Christ handled each situation in the manner He knew it should be handled... which meant sometimes he did it privately... and sometimes He did not... cherry-picking a single instance and putting it forth as the only way Christ handled things is not rightly dividing the word.

In His service,
Mr. J

If Danny had put away his wife quietly and not had his people send out email and letters saying what a terrible person she is, I would not be here reading these threads. Public actions produce public reactions.
Rosyroi

[fallible humanbe...]

FHB, I'm a little beat lost, please bear with me. When and where did you tell the story of the woman at the well?

Grace,

I didn't. That was the point of my post to Erik. He misunderstood my post earlier in this thread - or I wasn't clear. In any event I didn't attempt to equate the two individuals at all.

- FHB

[erik]

Erik,

I am afraid you misunderstood. I wasn't comparing Linda to the woman at the well. I was refering to the story in terms of Christ's actions - not making a huge public display of someones wrong doings. Instead he kept His knowledge of her wrongs between them only and then sent her on to speak of God's love to others. He didn't make a public display and see moved on and ministered to others.

Hope that clears it up.

- FHB

FHB,

I am sorry i misread your post, thank you for explaining it to me.

I might point the money changers in the temple, public sin, public action to fix the sin.

ERik

[Aletheia]

Luke chapter 7... how did Christ deal with the error in thought and deed of Simon the Pharisee? He pointed to the loving act of the woman of Nain and juxtaposed her actions against Simon's disrespect and haughty thinking... *in public*

You can only say that Christ handled each situation in the manner He knew it should be handled... which meant sometimes he did it privately... and sometimes He did not... cherry-picking a single instance and putting it forth as the only way Christ handled things is not rightly dividing the word.

In His service,
Mr. J

You just don't get it...

Jesus answered and reproved Simon before others,as Simon erred in front of those others and was speaking to him when he did it.

Jesus did not go out to the nearest multitude and say " Do you know what that self-righteous and judgmental Pharisee said, and did?" Nor did Jesus run up and down among the people saying Simon needs to be removed from his postition as a Pharisee, and turn it into a public spectacle because Simon spoke in his house in front of others.. It was none of their business.


Nor was it any of those strangers business to reprove or say anything to Simon, they weren't there and they witnessed nothing.

This post has been edited by Aletheia: Feb 16 2007, 11:53 AM

[inga]

God and his people don't use coersion or attempt to force their will on others, they rebuke and reprove and let the holy spirit do the convicting. Satan attempts to force the conscience and will, and those deceived by him do as well.

And good intentions can NEVER justify wrong acts.

For once, Aletheia, I agree with you whole-heartedly. I just think you've missed the primary application.

One of the biggest things I see wrong with the current 3ABN culture is precisely what you address above -- the use of power to coerce folks into agreeing with the leadership. Some of this is clearly spiritual abuse -- as the recent "corporate worship." In other cases, the abuse of employees continues after these employees leave 3ABN's employ. The attempt to keep Linda from speaking at various churches is merely the tip of the iceberg.

You also appear to say that you believe the end does not justify the means. I wholeheartedly agree, and that's why it bothers me so much that Danny appears to justify his actions towards Linda, towards this step-daugher, towards ex-employees, as well as his cover-up of sexual molestation charges against his brother on the basis of 'the good 3ABN has done." He regularly cites this "good" as proof that he's not done anything wrong -- both in private and in public.

Thus, as you so clearly point out, 3ABN's pattern of behavior does not meet the standards of Christ. Thank you for this.

Not once did they reply defensively of self, not once did they lift up self, it was all about God's work, and the people they are reaching and trying to reach, they defended a ministry of God and gave him the glory.

I appreciated that.

While I didn't watch last night, another thing that has bothered me is Dan and company's constant reference to the good work 3ABN has done, in a manner that said "Look what I have done!" Dan made it quite clear that 3ABN is his and repeatedly reminds viewers that God gave him the "dream" of 3ABN. Others of his team verify that Dan Shelton is God's chosen vessel. I have not seen them give God the glory in any way except the occasional words. Your take on the matter may differ.