How Many Alleged Victims Of Tommy Shelton? 25+?, Rough Draft of List of Alleged Victims/Timeline Options

[Whtz Happenin]

This will make you think.

Church Votes on Whether to Allow Sex Offender Into Congregation

A California Congregation Is Divided on Whether to Forgive His Sins or Try to Protect Their Children
Link to Article:
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=3144748...=1&GMA=true


Link to Video:
http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=3144789

[Shepherdswife]

We had a similar situation in a church we used to attend. A 30-ish yo man showed up one Sabbath morning, and told my husband in the course of the usual "where are you from?" conversation that he had been baptized in a large metro evangelistic series in another state, and that he had just come from prison, "but I am not going to tell you why I was in, so don't ask".

His behavior at the church picnic that day made us suspicious, so my husband called some pastors in the city he referred to, and found one who said he was so glad my husband called, that the man was not safe with boys or girls, had spent time for child abuse, and had been ordered off the campmeeting campgrounds the year before for his behavior.

My husband and the senior pastor talked to the man and told him that he was welcome to fellowship with us (membership was never mentioned--I don't know how that would have been handled if it had), but that we would not allow him to spend time near the children of the church, and that they were notifying the parents of the congregation so they could protect their children as well. He got very angry, said God had forgiven him so why couldn't we, that we were not Christians, etc, etc, etc. He came a time or two more and then never showed up again. I often wonder where he went next...

In another church I am aware of in a different state, a man came to the board, told them his history, asked them to hold him accountable to his own guidelines--never being around the children, etc. He was honest and transparent. It worked for awhile...but then his accountability group moved away one by one, the church changed, and he ended up in prison again for molesting a kid in his neighborhood. I don't know what the answer is, because pedophiles desperately need fellowship and accountability, but most won't accept it, and the ones that do are still not safe around kids. Ever. IMO. Maybe someone needs to start a church just for them...

My uncle is a deacon in a large SDA city church in still another state. He and the deacons were told that there were "several" convicted child abusers attending the church, but that they were not allowed to know who they were--they were just supposed to be alert and keep their eyes open. The reasoning was that if they were "outed", they would not have a safe place to attend, and they needed that. If I was a parent of small kids and found out my church had done that, I would go somewhere else...

shepherdswife

[PeacefulBe]

Shepherdswife,

I am continually awed by the important thoughts you bring to us in your posts and the personal reflection they inspire.

We must keep in mind, when discussing pedophiles and sexual abusers, that the Lord died for them as well as for each of us and longs for them to turn to Him for salvation. That DOES put our churches into the position of needing to deal with the issue of how to handle the accountability the predatory individual needs to maintain when we discover one in our midst.

In my own church family, during my teen years there was a middle-aged couple who were heavily involved with pathfinders and other youth functions. Recently, when looking through our State's Megan's Law site, I was surprised to discover the man listed as a convicted child sexual offender. This man has not been to church for quite some time and I had wondered what had become of him. To my knowledge, this has never been discussed in my congregation. I would hope that silence around these matters would no longer be practiced or tolerated.

[runner4him]

My uncle is a deacon in a large SDA city church in still another state. He and the deacons were told that there were "several" convicted child abusers attending the church, but that they were not allowed to know who they were--they were just supposed to be alert and keep their eyes open. The reasoning was that if they were "outed", they would not have a safe place to attend, and they needed that. If I was a parent of small kids and found out my church had done that, I would go somewhere else...

shepherdswife

You make some very good points. Some who indulge in certain types of addiction or abuse have difficulty staying on the straight path and while we want to accept them we must also make sure we are vigilant in order to protect our children. The main problem in many churches is the attitude of "it is not Christian to say things about people in the church even though there might be documentation or witnesses to the truth". I also have had similiar exeriences to your examples in several churches in several States. Briefly...almost 20 years ago conversations regarding sexual abuse were related to fellow students by 3 daughters of a prominant sda academy prinicipal. Each of the 3 confided in different students at different times. (The daughters were not aware of the other's abuse with their father and they looked like the ideal family). The fellow students eventually told their own parents after carrying the burden of knowing that this man who they all looked up to was a supposed sexual abuser and of his own daughters. One pastor who was outraged tried to talk to the powers that be in the conference and he was silenced with threats of losing his job. Nothing was done and the supposed abuser went elsewhere to do whatever. Another time in a different place a known convicted sexual abuser who just got out of prison came to a church where the pastor thought he did not need to tell the congregation anything. Eventually someone found out and questions were raised about this and the need to inform the parents in the church so they could be aware....the reaction of the pastor was very negative toward anyone who had anything to say.

[lurker]

Shepherdswife,

I am continually awed by the important thoughts you bring to us in your posts and the personal reflection they inspire.

We must keep in mind, when discussing pedophiles and sexual abusers, that the Lord died for them as well as for each of us and longs for them to turn to Him for salvation. That DOES put our churches into the position of needing to deal with the issue of how to handle the accountability the predatory individual needs to maintain when we discover one in our midst.

In my own church family, during my teen years there was a middle-aged couple who were heavily involved with pathfinders and other youth functions. Recently, when looking through our State's Megan's Law site, I was surprised to discover the man listed as a convicted child sexual offender. This man has not been to church for quite some time and I had wondered what had become of him. To my knowledge, this has never been discussed in my congregation. I would hope that silence around these matters would no longer be practiced or tolerated.

I watched a talk show where a former molester said that molesters tend to volunteer for scouting clubs etc for the opportunity to be around kids. I think the state makes such groups screen their leaders for such things now. That can help but does no good when what they have done is unreported.

This doesn't mean that all who volunteer are molesters, in fact even if or especially if they are former victims themselves, leaders may be able to spot abuse and report it. We have all seen families where some of the kids followed mom or dad's bad example such as being drunks and some of the kids were strictly teetotalers. I think it is the same with abused kids. Some act out and some are extrememly moral.

[Observer]

We had a similar situation in a church we used to attend. A 30-ish yo man showed up one Sabbath morning, and told my husband in the course of the usual "where are you from?" conversation that he had been baptized in a large metro evangelistic series in another state, and that he had just come from prison, "but I am not going to tell you why I was in, so don't ask".

His behavior at the church picnic that day made us suspicious, so my husband called some pastors in the city he referred to, and found one who said he was so glad my husband called, that the man was not safe with boys or girls, had spent time for child abuse, and had been ordered off the campmeeting campgrounds the year before for his behavior.

My husband and the senior pastor talked to the man and told him that he was welcome to fellowship with us (membership was never mentioned--I don't know how that would have been handled if it had), but that we would not allow him to spend time near the children of the church, and that they were notifying the parents of the congregation so they could protect their children as well. He got very angry, said God had forgiven him so why couldn't we, that we were not Christians, etc, etc, etc. He came a time or two more and then never showed up again. I often wonder where he went next...

In another church I am aware of in a different state, a man came to the board, told them his history, asked them to hold him accountable to his own guidelines--never being around the children, etc. He was honest and transparent. It worked for awhile...but then his accountability group moved away one by one, the church changed, and he ended up in prison again for molesting a kid in his neighborhood. I don't know what the answer is, because pedophiles desperately need fellowship and accountability, but most won't accept it, and the ones that do are still not safe around kids. Ever. IMO. Maybe someone needs to start a church just for them...

My uncle is a deacon in a large SDA city church in still another state. He and the deacons were told that there were "several" convicted child abusers attending the church, but that they were not allowed to know who they were--they were just supposed to be alert and keep their eyes open. The reasoning was that if they were "outed", they would not have a safe place to attend, and they needed that. If I was a parent of small kids and found out my church had done that, I would go somewhere else...

shepherdswife

The Upper Columbia Conference and the Walla Walla College Chruch have an excellent written set of guidelines to govern situations when people accused of child molestation and/or sex crimes wish to attend. They require a written contract between the person and the congregation. It is an extensive, multi-page document. Any who are interested may want to contact them for more information on it.

A convicted child molester attends a SDA Church in the Conference where I live. It is a small congregation. However, in their agreement with him, he is directly supervised by a male, at any time he is on chruch property. He is accompanied to the rest-room. There is no time when he is not directly supervised. He is not allowed to have any contact with children.

That is acceptable to this man. He openly admits that he committed the crime for which he was convicted, and he openly tells people the he could do it again.

[daylily]

Re the man who bacame angry and said God had forgiven him and why couldnt' the church members.

We have to remember that we can and do forgive but the forgiven person must earn our trust by his behavior. We are not obligated to trust without evidence of trustworthiness. His anger proved that he was not to be trusted.

daylily

[Observer]

Re the man who bacame angry and said God had forgiven him and why couldnt' the church members.

We have to remember that we can and do forgive but the forgiven person must earn our trust by his behavior. We are not obligated to trust without evidence of trustworthiness. His anger proved that he was not to be trusted.

daylily

If you steal church funds, you should not expect to remain a Church Treasurer.

[daylily]

Exactly!

[mozart]

up until this post, all i've read was so twisted. THIS IS HOW IT SHOULD BE DONE. ty observer
when it is done this way, everything is out in the open, then people who do work with the children are not nervous about it and the parents can be at peace. this is the only way. if the perpetrator can't handle the scrutiny, then he makes his own choices. stay or go. innocent children don't have those choices. they don't have that privelege.
i'm sick and tired of people making other people feel guilty for a criminal's behavior. there is nothing unchristian about what observer has described here. God bless that church. thanks again for giving this awesome example.

The Upper Columbia Conference and the Walla Walla College Chruch have an excellent written set of guidelines to govern situations when people accused of child molestation and/or sex crimes wish to attend. They require a written contract between the person and the congregation. It is an extensive, multi-page document. Any who are interested may want to contact them for more information on it.

A convicted child molester attends a SDA Church in the Conference where I live. It is a small congregation. However, in their agreement with him, he is directly supervised by a male, at any time he is on chruch property. He is accompanied to the rest-room. There is no time when he is not directly supervised. He is not allowed to have any contact with children.

That is acceptable to this man. He openly admits that he committed the crime for which he was convicted, and he openly tells people the he could do it again.

This post has been edited by mozart: Jun 6 2007, 01:46 PM

[Whtz Happenin]

...

Also a Oklahoma connection. Isn't Tommy in Oklahoma now?

...

Laurence,

You made the above quote in another thread, but I thought any discussion would fit better in this thread.

I almost read right on past this statement, but I reversed to read it again. Are you talking about TS? What did you hear that prompted your question? With the allegations that have been made, folks need to be warned. News may not have traveled very fast in the eighties, but it can travel fast today.

Let's expand your question into an answer.

[LaurenceD]

Hey Whtz, a couple months ago, or more, I was listening to DS interview a conference president (Jim somethingorother--can't rem. his last name). This pres. was comforting DS, kind of uncling him, and told him how he (the conference pres) had been asked to leave his postion once, and was later elected back to his former posistion. During that interview, TS name came up and Jim said he was in Oklahoma now. It's been a while, but I clearly perked up when I heard that and mentioned it a couple time here...right afterwards.

[mozart]

so i wonder if he is there because of the other brother pastoring at a church there?

Hey Whtz, a couple months ago, or more, I was listening to DS interview a conference president (Jim somethingorother--can't rem. his last name). This pres. was comforting DS, kind of uncling him, and told him how he (the conference pres) had been asked to leave his postion once, and was later elected back to his former posistion. During that interview, TS name came up and Jim said he was in Oklahoma now. It's been a while, but I clearly perked up when I heard that and mentioned it a couple time here...right afterwards.

[Whtz Happenin]

Hey Whtz, a couple months ago, or more, I was listening to DS interview a conference president (Jim somethingorother--can't rem. his last name). This pres. was comforting DS, kind of uncling him, and told him how he (the conference pres) had been asked to leave his postion once, and was later elected back to his former posistion. During that interview, TS name came up and Jim said he was in Oklahoma now. It's been a while, but I clearly perked up when I heard that and mentioned it a couple time here...right afterwards.

Thanks LaurenceD for the information. Hmmmm, I think I remember someone posting a link to a bunch of Church of God's. I wonder if he is at one of those? I will search for the link and see if there is an Oklahoma Church of God.

so i wonder if he is there because of the other brother pastoring at a church there?

Mozart, when you say "the other brother," are you referring to the Jim ?? that LaurenceD mentioned or are you meaning someone else?

[PeacefulBe]

Thanks LaurenceD for the information. Hmmmm, I think I remember someone posting a link to a bunch of Church of God's. I wonder if he is at one of those? I will search for the link and see if there is an Oklahoma Church of God.

Mozart, when you say "the other brother," are you referring to the Jim ?? that LaurenceD mentioned or are you meaning someone else?

WH,

The "Jim" LaurenceD is speaking of is Jim Gilley. I saw that interview. He is now pastor of one of the SDA churches in Dallas, TX.