Save3abn Website, who runs it? Options

[Whtz Happenin]

I'm going to address this. I've been wanting to for a while, but I wouldn't do it because of the cocky and arrogant way I was asked about it from certain unnamed people (and I DO mean unnamed).

I posted the apology letter from Tommy Shelton to me for 2 reasons. Obviously, number one was because he took responsibility for what happened and said that I resisted him. He said it was his fault (It was). This puts me in the clear.

Number two was because it did show at least some remorse on Tommy's part for what happened. I thought that maybe it would help to shine a little better light on him. After the letters he and Carol wrote blasting everyone and still not denying what happened, though, I think that's probably a lost cause now.

Now everyone knows why the apology is online. I did it for myself AND Tommy. It's not my fault that it blew up in his face. He has done all this to himself. I'm not happy about it, that's just the way it is.
...

Duane, It takes a God fearing man to take a stand like you have. It has and will allow others to have the confidence to come forward and start the healing process that God will provide if they seek Him.

If only Tommy would realize that he is doing more harm to himself and others by staying in hiding.

L4T,

Here you go:
...
- FHB

FHB, If this is keeping you up at night and you feel this strong about it, I suggest that you start your own website, possibly www.savepickle.com. I do not see where this has anything to do with 3ABN or child abuse.

[Ralph]

If only Tommy would realize that he is doing more harm to himself and others by staying in hiding.

FHB, If this is keeping you up at night and you feel this strong about it, I suggest that you start your own website, possibly www.savepickle.com. I do not see where this has anything to do with 3ABN or child abuse.

It has nothing to do with 3ABN. It is just another red herring.

[Bystander]

Duane, It takes a God fearing man to take a stand like you have. It has and will allow others to have the confidence to come forward and start the healing process that God will provide if they seek Him.

I do not see where this has anything to do with 3ABN or child abuse.

It has everything to do with it since Pickle is a self appointed investigator and reporter on the alleged events surrounding 3abn. His credibility is being called into question as well as, his manipulation of words which totally changes the actual facts. We already know that he is not a credentialed investigator or reporter and has absolutely no standing where 3abn is concerned. Now, he is showing time and again how he "changes words to change the facts." If he is not truthful, and an unreliable source, then obviously that has a big impact on what he "reports" about 3abn.

[erik]

Never have I seen a more beautiful example of the Pickled Propaganda. He first says you "must be" a papal apologists, then says if you are then that means that Danny S must be.
Honestly, since we have called everyone's attention to this so much, you would think he would be more careful. Instead he is amplifying his ludicrous assassination of word play.

Also, for those that say Bobby boy does not have to answer questions if the rest of us don't. You would be comparing apples and oranges. None of us have claimed to be an "investigator" on the trail of a "so called corrupt" ministry. None of us have claimed to be a direct representative of anyone. He has. You all tell me. He claims all his info his true, he claims he doesn't push and harass to get it, he claims to be part of an investigative team with Joy, so why distance yourself from the writing at save 3abn not? Somebody has to make up those enquirer type sensational headlines. Sounds right up your alley BBP.

TO THE PRO-DANNY GROUP,

Can you explain how proving Mr. Pickle and Mr. Joy are idoits, fools, and all around bad guys.

DOES one thing to make the 3abn mess any better.


IF they are are wet behind the ears, or even worse yet, proven to be liars.

How does that make the lack of danny's right to remarried any different.

how does that make the wild and down right silly emails that mr. Danny Shelton has penned, any more Godly or Christian?

How does that make Tommy asking boys and young men for sexual favors any less hard to look the the other way on?

Plus this looks like more of the same old same old, out of the 3abn crowd smear smear, an d then act like a victim.

IF 3abn has nothing to hide then why all the attacks, when the truth would shut Mr. Pickle and Mr. Joy, much faster then acting like a bunch of guilty kids with your hands in the cookie jar.

on side note, Are you claiming that the letters appear to written by various people at 3abn including danny all true emails or have has the words and letters been change?

YES or NO?

I personally found mr. Pickle's book confronting the video that attacked the SDA church to be very helpful and well researched, that book is sold in various abc across the US, and that book is why when i realized that he was the same guy called bob, and this posts had some weight in my mind personally.

BUT, i will say that Danny Shelton and the Pro-3abn crowd is what changed my mind from being on the side to lets clean out the trash, and restore 3abn, danny, linda, and tommy to what gods ants them to be.


Also letters of Barbara Kerr really moved my understanding of the whole deal. THen when Mabel Dunbar wrote her letter it was like ok, the smoke has turned to fire and the church and better start smell the mess at 3abn.

So again why go after Mr. Pickle, and Mr. Joy if 3abn has nothing to hide, just bring out the truth and they will be shown to the lairs you are claiming them to be.


Erik

It has everything to do with it since Pickle is a self appointed investigator and reporter on the alleged events surrounding 3abn. His credibility is being called into question as well as, his manipulation of words which totally changes the actual facts. We already know that he is not a credentialed investigator or reporter and has absolutely no standing where 3abn is concerned. Now, he is showing time and again how he "changes words to change the facts." If he is not truthful, and an unreliable source, then obviously that has a big impact on what he "reports" about 3abn.

Bystander,


Then are you claiming he is making up the letters from victims of tommy's, if so then i would be in court so fast his head would spin, or if i was being nice i would just have the "victims" right a letter saying this never happenned to me.

IF Mr. Pickle or MR. Joy were wrong has to the basic facts of the 3abn issue it would be so easy to prove them wrong, so that fact that you and others are going out side this 3abn stuff to try and show some how that they are are all wrong just looks silly, and certain rings hollow on the proof dept.

Erik

[ex3ABNemployee]

I am still trying to understand why you didn't post your answer to him. that is only fair.

If I still had a copy, I would.

[Aletheia]

Wow, that is quite a broadly brushed statement. I'm not sure it will go down in history as a principle as helpful as Occam's Razor. If you don't agree with our opinions you can't agree with the opinions of anybody else. Hmmmm.

If you, Lee, wwjd and Bystander can establish credibility as first-hand commentary, your opinions will count every bit as much as the others who have developed credibility for theirs. But that is JMO.

PB

PB,

Bob kept e-mailing me how we had the same concerns and questions, and pretending to be my friend, he told me that FHB lived in my immediate area (very small) or was travelling through because of his job and was up to no good, and his proof of this was the IP# he had from FHB. This was outright false.

But stupidly I believed all his insinuations at first and got worried and alarmed by what he kept telling me, but still wanting to give FHB the benefit of the doubt sent Bob a email from FHB which I told him made me believe FHB was sincere.

It was all a trick to track FHB down, proven by Bob's reply as soon as I did so. And as you can plainly see from our posts Bob is not a friend to me, and disagrees with me about almost everything. Then Bob tried to intimidate me into not posting any more....

I sent copies of Bob's and my messages to FHB, and apologised for what I had done, and FHB confronted him, Bob denied all, even though it was all in plain black and white.

So when FHB talks about personal experience with Bob's tactics and methods, yes some of us have personal experience.

So I am genuinly concerned here and respectfully ask, When it comes to opinions and first hand testimony from other posters, whether anonymous or identified, whom you don't know, what do you use as a criteria to determine what is truth , error, or even lies?

I ask, For you have written many times you came here with an open mind, and it was only after reading here that you formed your opinions, and you advise other other "newbies" to do the same.

I'd really like to know. I hope and pray it's not the court of public opinion members here keep talking about. For the history of this world is full of examples proving how the Court of public opinion, and the majority rules, is nothing more then mob rule, and doesn't prove anything as far as what the true facts are, or what is right or wrong.

This post has been edited by Aletheia: Mar 13 2007, 01:04 PM

[wwjd]

If I still had a copy, I would.

Could you just give an "overall" of what you said.
Thanks

[PeacefulBe]

I'm going to address this. I've been wanting to for a while, but I wouldn't do it because of the cocky and arrogant way I was asked about it from certain unnamed people (and I DO mean unnamed).

I posted the apology letter from Tommy Shelton to me for 2 reasons. Obviously, number one was because he took responsibility for what happened and said that I resisted him. He said it was his fault (It was). This puts me in the clear.

Number two was because it did show at least some remorse on Tommy's part for what happened. I thought that maybe it would help to shine a little better light on him. After the letters he and Carol wrote blasting everyone and still not denying what happened, though, I think that's probably a lost cause now.

Now everyone knows why the apology is online. I did it for myself AND Tommy. It's not my fault that it blew up in his face. He has done all this to himself. I'm not happy about it, that's just the way it is.

Duane,

I just have to commend you, once again, for taking the bold step you did in bringing this all forward. Your courage has started others on that journey, as well, and that is a wonderful thing! I know it has brought you pain and probably even heart ache as you have seen some of the responses to your testimony. Stay strong in the Lord and keep hope in your heart.

I pray and want to believe that, in the long run, even Tommy will be edified by the public exposure of his problems. Before it became public knowledge, at the very least Tommy and God have always known of his deeds. It has to be eating away at his heart unless he has so closed his ears to the Holy Spirit that he is unreachable. I hope he is not to that point. Yes, the letters from both he and Carol are evidence that they are still deep in denial. What they don't seem to grasp is the freedom that will come with true repentance, forgiveness and accountability.

I continue to pray that other alleged victims will have the strength to break the silence and start the healing.

PB

[Aletheia]

Could you just give an "overall" of what you said.
Thanks

I would sincerly appreciate that also. As it is my understanding that you and Tommy remained friends?


I have been very worried about your involvement in this whole Pickle and Joy investigation, and their accusations of Tommy being a child molester, Worried for you. Reason being Bob claimed to me on the phone, that you were first defending Tommy, and that he and Joy were working on you, and then suddenly here you were, and no longer defending Tommy.

I just don't understand how you could go from one point to another so quickly when you were around when Tommy was first accused and knew all involved, and had a Mom who even worked at the school all those years, But knowing Bob's tactics I have been worried you were manipulated by things he told you which may not be true.

That may or may not be the case, but you could help here if you choose.

[wwjd]

PB,

Bob kept e-mailing me how we had the same concerns and questions, and pretending to be my friend, he told me that FHB lived in my immediate area (very small) or was travelling through because of his job and was up to no good, and his proof of this was the IP# he had from FHB. This was outright false.

But stupidly I believed all his insinuations at first and got worried and alarmed by what he kept telling me, but still wanting to give FHB the benefit of the doubt sent Bob a email from FHB which I told him made me believe FHB was sincere.

It was all a trick to track FHB down, proven by Bob's reply as soon as I did so. And as you can plainly see from our posts Bob is not a friend to me, and disagrees with me about almost everything. Then Bob tried to intimidate me into not posting any more....

I sent copies of Bob's and my messages to FHB, and apologised for what I had done, and FHB confronted him, Bob denied all, even though it was all in plain black and white.

So when FHB talks about personal experience with Bob's tactics and methods, yes some of us have personal experience.

So I am genuinly concerned here and respectfully ask, When it comes to opinions and first hand testimony from other posters, whether anonymous or identified, whom you don't know, what do you use as a criteria to determine what is truth , error, or even lies?

I ask, For you have written many times you came here with an open mind, and it was only after reading here that you formed your opinions, and you advise other other "newbies" to do the same.

I'd really like to know. I hope and pray it's not the court of public opinion members here keep talking about. For the history of this world is full of examples proving how the Court of public opinion, and the majority rules, is nothing more then mob rule, and doesn't prove anything as far as what the true facts are, or what is right or wrong.

Aletheia, Pickle knows what he does with words and insinuation. Unless he has done it so long he has lost discernment between right and wrong. His "conclusions" that are drawn from statements made by others, continue to become more and more incredible. The people here are "all for him" because he is on their side. Now, if was to "cross over" and start his spins from the other side, they would laugh and ridicule him into the ground. I can see clearly what would be done to his word manipulation. See what I tell you. When they read this, they will start attacking me, instead of addressing my statement of what they would do to him if the shoe was on the other foot. Oh well, doesn't really matter. We know it and so does God.

[PeacefulBe]

PB,

Bob kept e-mailing me how we had the same concerns and questions, and pretending to be my friend, he told me that FHB lived in my immediate area (very small) or was travelling through because of his job and was up to no good, and his proof of this was the IP# he had from FHB. This was outright false.

But stupidly I believed all his insinuations at first and got worried and alarmed by what he kept telling me, but still wanting to give FHB the benefit of the doubt sent Bob a email from FHB which I told him made me believe FHB was sincere.

Did Bob Pickle ask you to send him one of FHB's emails?

It was all a trick to track FHB down, proven by Bob's reply as soon as I did so. And as you can plainly see from our posts Bob is not a friend to me, and disagrees with me about almost everything. Then Bob tried to intimidate me into not posting any more....

I sent copies of Bob's and my messages to FHB, and apologised for what I had done, and FHB confronted him, Bob denied all, even though it was all in plain black and white.

What was Bob's reply as soon as you did so? Can you post your proof of your claims here?

I have seen Bob take many posters to task when they post something that needs a response. I have often seen problems in things you have posted so I am not surprised that you would get disagreement from Bob.

So when FHB talks about personal experience with Bob's tactics and methods, yes some of us have personal experience.

So I am genuinly concerned here and respectfully ask, When it comes to opinions and first hand testimony from other posters, whether anonymous or identified, whom you don't know, what do you use as a criteria to determine what is truth , error, or even lies?

I do my best to determine the credibility of the person posting or making the claims. I look for corroboration of their claims from other witnesses, as the Bible counsels. Are the claims/accusations made from first-hand experience? Are they mere he said/she said hearsay? I also consider the motivation or goal of the one making the claims/accusations. Are they looking to destroy or are they attempting to bring truth to light in order to edify.

I ask, For you have written many times you came here with an open mind, and it was only after reading here that you formed your opinions, and you advise other other "newbies" to do the same.

I'd really like to know. I hope and pray it's not the court of public opinion members here keep talking about. For the history of this world is full of examples proving how the Court of public opinion, and the majority rules, is nothing more then mob rule, and doesn't prove anything as far as what the true facts are, or what is right or wrong.

Reading here with an "open' yet cautious mind is part of what I used to come to my opinions. I also factored in what I have seen for myself of Danny's and other's comments and the documentation on save3abn.com as well as other credible resources.

With a ministry such as 3abn, the most important court IS the court of public opinion. What evidence that "court" is given will, to a great degree determine the future of the ministry. You and others need to give the public at large more credit for being capable of independant thought and the ability to discern evidence for themselves.

I maintain that looking down your noses at "chat rooms" is a dangerous position if you want to save the reputation of 3abn. There are lots of good and honest folk here. You would do well to keep that in mind.

PB

[princessdi]

You really need to quit, Cindy. TS was/is a married pastor. Him asking anyone but his wife for sex is wrong. However, you and your friends are only intersted in keeping him out of prison, so you continue to victimize his victim by insinuation that they had a homosexual affair, instead of dealing with the real issues. That is no better. That is sick, real sick.

I would sincerly appreciate that also. As it is my understanding that you and Tommy remained friends?
I have been very worried about your involvement in this whole Pickle and Joy investigation, and their accusations of Tommy being a child molester, Worried for you. Reason being Bob claimed to me on the phone, that you were first defending Tommy, and that he and Joy were working on you, and then suddenly here you were, and no longer defending Tommy.

I just don't understand how you could go from one point to another so quickly when you were around when Tommy was first accused and knew all involved, and had a Mom who even worked at the school all those years, But knowing Bob's tactics I have been worried you were manipulated by things he told you which may not be true.

That may or may not be the case, but you could help here if you choose.

[PeacefulBe]

Aletheia, Pickle knows what he does with words and insinuation. Unless he has done it so long he has lost discernment between right and wrong. His "conclusions" that are drawn from statements made by others, continue to become more and more incredible. The people here are "all for him" because he is on their side. Now, if was to "cross over" and start his spins from the other side, they would laugh and ridicule him into the ground. I can see clearly what would be done to his word manipulation. See what I tell you. When they read this, they will start attacking me, instead of addressing my statement of what they would do to him if the shoe was on the other foot. Oh well, doesn't really matter. We know it and so does God.

wwjd,
While I would personally like to see Bob Pickle put aside his word play and just stick to straight and clear statements, I don't think it reflects on him as a lack of discernment. Anyone with a clear mind can look at the statement by Walt Thompson and see that he is, in effect, saying just what Bob Pickle is relaying by "putting words into WT's mouth". I think the impact of Bob's conclusions would be more positive and the influence of his clear perception greater if he would not play word games with the information. Saying that, each of us has our own personalities and ways to communicate. If that is Bob's way, we just need to work a little harder to "get" what he is pointing out.

There, I addressed your statement. Unfortunately, I must also "attack" your statement for I find your statement rather narrow minded and bordering on silliness. I would suggest that is Bob was posting on "the other side", whatever that is, thoughtful people would consider his points to see if what he was speaking was credible. Those not capable of clear thinking would simply jump to criticize the messenger without considering the message. But that is all JMO.

PB

I would sincerly appreciate that also. As it is my understanding that you and Tommy remained friends?
I have been very worried about your involvement in this whole Pickle and Joy investigation, and their accusations of Tommy being a child molester, Worried for you. Reason being Bob claimed to me on the phone, that you were first defending Tommy, and that he and Joy were working on you, and then suddenly here you were, and no longer defending Tommy.

I just don't understand how you could go from one point to another so quickly when you were around when Tommy was first accused and knew all involved, and had a Mom who even worked at the school all those years, But knowing Bob's tactics I have been worried you were manipulated by things he told you which may not be true.

That may or may not be the case, but you could help here if you choose.

Once again, Aletheia, you have shown that you don't understand the subject of sexual abuse.

That you would try to second guess and undermine the testimony of Duane does not reflect well on you at all!

PB

[Aletheia]

Did Bob Pickle ask you to send him one of FHB's emails?
What was Bob's reply as soon as you did so? Can you post your proof of your claims here?

I have seen Bob take many posters to task when they post something that needs a response. I have often seen problems in things you have posted so I am not surprised that you would get disagreement from Bob.
I do my best to determine the credibility of the person posting or making the claims. I look for corroboration of their claims from other witnesses, as the Bible counsels. Are the claims/accusations made from first-hand experience? Are they mere he said/she said hearsay? I also consider the motivation or goal of the one making the claims/accusations. Are they looking to destroy or are they attempting to bring truth to light in order to edify.
Reading here with an "open' yet cautious mind is part of what I used to come to my opinions. I also factored in what I have seen for myself of Danny's and other's comments and the documentation on save3abn.com as well as other credible resources.

With a ministry such as 3abn, the most important court IS the court of public opinion. What evidence that "court" is given will, to a great degree determine the future of the ministry. You and others need to give the public at large more credit for being capable of independant thought and the ability to discern evidence for themselves.

I maintain that looking down your noses at "chat rooms" is a dangerous position if you want to save the reputation of 3abn. There are lots of good and honest folk here. You would do well to keep that in mind.

PB

Yes Pb, Bob asked me to send him FHB's email, he said it would help the others such as Fran, to accept FHB's sincerity. It was not used for that purpose, he then claimed he wanted the e-mail address and IP# on it which is included with an attatched e-mail..

And truthfully, I do not know if I can post those messages, because I'm on thin ice here, I was warned, then banned without posting a word, and then warned again yesterday still while not posting or saying even one word and told I will have no further warnings by someone who keeps telling me to stop posting. --- any post could therefore be my last.
--Also, when FHB tried to post to Bob about all this here to warn you all, the thread was closed, so I don't know if it would be violating some rule.

Also -- Respectfully I disagree that the court of public opinion is the most important when it comes to a ministry, It is God's court that trumps all, and his spirit which rules and convicts. I believe these words apply to 3ABN and any other ministry, as well, even if they are totally apostate:

It was the court of public opinion that murdered Christ, it was the court of public opinion that persecuted his disciples, and it was the majority, the court of public opinion who ruled during the dark ages and slew the saints and martyrs of God.

Act 5:27 And when they had brought them, they set [them] before the council: and the high priest asked them,
28 Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us.
29 Then Peter and the [other] apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand [to be] a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and [so is] also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
33 When they heard [that], they were cut [to the heart], and took counsel to slay them.

34 Then stood there up one in the council, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, had in reputation among all the people, and commanded to put the apostles forth a little space;
35 And said unto them, Ye men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what ye intend to do as touching these men.
36 For before these days rose up Theudas, boasting himself to be somebody; to whom a number of men, about four hundred, joined themselves: who was slain; and all, as many as obeyed him, were scattered, and brought to nought.
37 After this man rose up Judas of Galilee in the days of the taxing, and drew away much people after him: he also perished; and all, [even] as many as obeyed him, were dispersed.
38 And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:
39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.

40 And to him they agreed: and when they had called the apostles, and beaten [them], they commanded that they should not speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go.
41 And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name.
42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.


~ Aletheia

P.S. I do not look down my nose at chat rooms . Far from it. I simply am saying God has standards to prove sin and error, or truth and lies,and so does our civil governments. I do not believe all the members here are following those standards and principles, but they have nothing to do with the other members who are, and are also members here.

[sonshineonme]

It has everything to do with it since Pickle is a self appointed investigator and reporter on the alleged events surrounding 3abn. His credibility is being called into question as well ....

You SAYING "His credibility is being called into question" does not mean it is. Who is calling it into question? umm, besides YOU? But you make blanket statements (as usual) out to sound as though they are majority/group statements...why do you do this? Do you still believe that if you say it is so, it is so? Nope, not so. WAKE UP WAKE UP!

You don't have to have a detective license to put 2+2+2 together...people do it all the time. Get involved in a good cause and gather information, with witness, etc. Thank goodness we have people that care enough to get involved....it's the people that make things happen, everyone working together for the cause, and it works everyday in this world.

You keep attacking the messenger...nice distraction, but it doesn't work. I know, I know ... you can't help it.