3abn "on The Road" Again Options

[LaurenceD]

I just finished watching most of the 3abn broadcast of DS recently preaching live at some SDA church, perhaps Dallas, Tx. He was all fired up, and like a good fighter he seemed to be trying to save his ministry. I found myself kind of feeling sorry for him. Although he spent most of the sermon talking about himself, one of his points was that we should only worry about our relationship with Jesus, not about all the "rumors' going around on the internet, etc.

One thing that stuck me odd was him mentioning that in this last month, or week, the devil had been trying harder than ever to destroy his ministry. He mentioned a lightning strike that took out their transmitters and other electrical equipment, including computors, etc. And he mentioned that the station that broadcasts to the Philippines has been hit. Overall it sounded like a terrible week, and he did allude to the fact that he had personal problems he was trying to overcome. But, was he discouraged? NO!

The odd thing was he seemed to be turning his head away from the possiblility that God was trying to speak to him through these disasters and personal hits on the internet. He seemed personally challenged by the need for survival. So, he trumpeted the number of new stations in India and Thailand, and several big US cities through cable. He mentioned the millions of viewers he was now reaching, including the last place on earth for 3abn to reach--New Zealand. I could tell this made him feel better, and gave him the hope he seemed in need of. He had now come from nowhere and had taken the message to the whole world. (BTW, so had Paul the Apostle as noted in Rom.1:8)

This leads me to an important question and a little analysis: what is the 3abn message?

Yesterday morning, I heard an announcement on 3abn that goes something like this: broadcasting the good news of Jesus Christ to the whole world, and his 2nd coming.

So that naturally raises the question--what is this three angels message that 3abn uses as it's flag? If I understand the three angels message correctly, I hear it very seldom on their broadcasts. Maybe less than 10% of the time, if that.

As one looks at the history of the SDA church, there is only one thing that really separates it from other Christian denominations. What is it, specifically? And does that message seem to be a priority of the station?

I once heard an SDA minister suggest that we're moving backwards. As more generations unfold, we have new people to reach with this specific SDA message, and we can never seem to catch up. Right now, the Muslims religion seems to be spreading faster than Christianity. Within the Christian movement, the Mormons seem to be growing faster than any other denomination. I think the SDA church--by membership only--is something like way way down the list.

I wonder if the success of the Momons is by their person-to-person ministry, following the directions of Christ...sending out his disciples in pairs, rather than by expensive satellite broadcasting where only a tiny percentage of people may possibly be listening, and even less understanding.

Is it possible that more people are leaving the church than are coming in (both SDA church and the Chrisitan religion)? I once heard that five out six people, born in the SDA church, leave it. Without new converts, the membership would shrink fast it seems.

So, for the new ones coming in, I wonder how many really understand the unique message that SDAs felt called to give in the first place. BTW, if I have if figured out correctly, the unique SDA purpose is to give the three angel's messages to the world, namely that the Judgement hour has come.

Other churches preach the 7th day, the sanctuary, Christ's righteousness, His 2nd coming, the health message, etc., etc. No one else preaches that the Judgement of the world has already begun (1844), as far as I know.

*********

Was I by chance watching an old "On the Road" rerun? One thing I did catch was his mention of "dung dipped in chocolate." where had I heard this before?

[PeacefulBe]

LD,
Where did you watch this program? Was it a video tape or actually on 3abn?

That he was mentioning dung dipped in chocolate could put it back to 2004, show him making a refence to the newly posted emails on save3abn or simply showing that he considers that turn of phrase a part of his routine.

Anybody have input on this program?

PB

[Voktar of Zargon]

Laurence,
Very thought provoking questions that you raise! Part of what has made 3ABN so wonderful in the eyes of many is it's growth to "world wide" status. This is of course the mantra which is most often repeated at 3ABN fundraisers and on the air. I echo your questions "Are the 'undiluted' 3Angels messages really being proclaimed all over the world through this medium?" Forgive me for my ignorance, but what do people in other countries really see? Surely they don't see affluent American Adventist's sitting around the livingroom table talking about themselves and how great their world wide ministry is. Surely muslims in the bush don't tune in for the Micheff sisters all decked out and talking about frichik.
"I wonder if the success of the Momons is by their person-to-person ministry, following the directions of Christ...sending out his disciples in pairs, rather than by expensive satellite broadcasting where only a tiny percentage of people may possibly be listening, and even less understanding."
Public evangelism has it's place but personal evangelism (house to house labor) is really the foundation of how the work began, how it flourishes (and it does in the developing parts of the world), and how it will be finished. Television evangelism and Sattelite evangelism have their place; but their returns are often diminishing - and even at times counterproductive. For one, television (and computers) have an addicitve and deleterious downside which can actually contribute to disciples being removed from the field of active personal evangelism. They can even have a harmful effect on the frontal lobes of the brain - and dare I say, our spirituality. Television itself produces a semihypnotic state (which most of us have experienced) where our creative and spiritual centers may be crippled. In North America the financial base for 3ABN appears to be provided by elderly members who have substituted 3ABN for more "healthy" spiritual activity (personal prayer, study, and evangelism). What did elderly people (including Christians) used to do with their lives before the advent of the "tube"?
For some time an inordinate emphasis has been placed upon sattelite evangelism in North America. Sattelite evangelism though, is viewed by many as a bandaid measure to infuse life into a dying church. Members often engage in this form of evangelism not as a "reaping" event where the interests that they have been personnally working with are brought to harvest; but instead, it becomes an activity where Laodiceans can engage in evangelism by proxy. The evangelist presents the message. The pastor and elders do the follow-up. A handful of souls are baptized and we feel better about ourselves. The end result? Disciples do not grow in their relationship with and trust in the Lord, nor in their character development, because they are not actively seeking the lost.
We are now in the third and final wave of world missions. The first angels message outlines this clearly - the everlasting gospel will go to every "nation" (ethne = ethnic group), kindred, tongue, and people group. Jesus plainly stated that when this gospel is preached to "all nations (ethne = people groups) then the end will come. There are approximately 10,000 or so "people groups" yet to be reached by the everlasting gospel. Many of them exist in seemingly "unreachable" situations. There are approximately 7,000 major languages on earth - nearly 5,000 do not have a Bible in their own tongue. Surely God is going to have to perform some miracles to finish this work. 3ABN is not that miracle. The majority of these peoples will not be reached by contributing to Danny Shelton and gang, who will finish the work for us by proxy with their technology.
"He had now come from nowhere and had taken the message to the whole world."
Danny has not taken the 3 Angels messages to the world. Yes 3ABN does contribute to this work by promoting organizations like "Global Mission", "Gospel Outreach" and "AFM" etc. But what God really needs is not more sattelite downlinks (Or television evangelists) but more living breathing disciples who are willing to risk all to be face to face frontier/cross-cultural missionaries - reaching the truely unreached (not preaching to an Adventist choir). If Danny steps down, I suggest that he leave his horses and mansion to live in the jungle for 10 years. It might do his soul some good.

[Addendum added from bumped post:
Quoting LaurenceD,
I'm lookings at Strongs concordance (for lack of a better one) at...
"all the world" Mat 24:14 oikoumene means: the (terrenne part of the) globe, spec. the Roman empire--earth, world
and...
"whole world" Rom 1:8 kosmos means: by impl. the world (in a wide or narrow sense, includ. its inhab., lit. or fig.
I've often wondered what the difference is. Would you have some thoughts on this? The reason I ask is because I've often found this confusing....Jesus instructs to go to the whole world, Paul is saying he's done that. How many times will this have to be accomplished? Every so often as our understanding changes?

Response:
Harpers Bible dictionary sums up the confusion by saying, “The Bible as a whole has no unitary conception of “world” as such.”
When we talk about “the world” as Adventist Christians, we are primarily concerned with its inhabitants and those places that are inhabited.

It took a terribly long time for the disciples to wake up to the fact that they were to witness to Gentiles. This is one of the tragic paradoxes of the book of Acts.
Each generation grows in its understanding of what it means to fulfill the great commission. ‘Present Truth’ for Paul’s day was not the same as for today. Paul didn’t even know there was such a place as Tahiti in the South Pacific - or the entire American continent for that matter. It seems clear that eventually the gospel was preached throughout at least the Roman Empire during Paul’s day (and a few other empires like China and India). Did primitive tribalists in the remote regions of the globe hear it as well? Not likely. Many commentaries think Paul was speaking with hyperbole when he said it was preached to “every creature.”

The term “world” is used in both a wider and narrower sense. “The world” is reached one soul at a time – not enmasse. So, in a sense whenever someone wins one soul they are “reaching the world.” Whenever 3ABN uses the term they are not using it in the narrow sense. The implication is that by blanketing the globe with Satellite signal they have “reached the world” in the wider sense. If “the world” represents the world’s inhabitants then obviously a global TV blanket does not accomplish this goal. Once again “the world” is not reached enmasse anyway. And, as already mentioned, the missiological goal for our day (present truth) is to reach all the “people groups” of the world. Also, missions by it’s very nature involves “incarnational contact” not “satellite contact.”]


This post has been edited by Voktar of Zargon: Mar 26 2007, 09:09 AM

[PeacefulBe]

VofZ,
You, who posts so rarely, have said so much! We all need to reach out as the disciples of old did - to those within our immediate areas of influence as well as hitting the road/air/sea to make sure contact is made with those who are waiting.

[LaurenceD]

Where did you watch this program? Was it a video tape or actually on 3abn?

It was broadcast on our 3abn TV station this morning. It may have been a reun though. His story about the lightning strikes and the station in the Philippines being hit should date it. Seems I recall 3abn being stuck by lightning a few years ago. :shrug:

Very thought provoking questions that you raise! Part of what has made 3ABN so wonderful in the eyes of many is it's growth to "world wide" status. This is of course the mantra which is most often repeated at 3ABN fundraisers and on the air. I echo your questions "Are the 'undiluted' 3Angels messages really being proclaimed all over the world through this medium?" Forgive me for my ignorance, but what do people in other countries really see? Surely they don't see affluent American Adventist's sitting around the livingroom table talking about themselves and how great their world wide ministry is. Surely muslims in the bush don't tune in for the Micheff sisters all decked out and talking about frichik.
"I wonder if the success of the Momons is by their person-to-person ministry, following the directions of Christ...sending out his disciples in pairs, rather than by expensive satellite broadcasting where only a tiny percentage of people may possibly be listening, and even less understanding."
Public evangelism has it's place but personal evangelism (house to house labor) is really the foundation of how the work began, how it flourishes (and it does in the developing parts of the world), and how it will be finished. Television evangelism and Sattelite evangelism have their place; but their returns are often diminishing - and even at times counterproductive. For one, television (and computers) have an addicitve and deleterious downside which can actually contribute to disciples being removed from the field of active personal evangelism. They can even have a harmful effect on the frontal lobes of the brain - and dare I say, our spirituality. Television itself produces a semihypnotic state (which most of us have experienced) where our creative and spiritual centers may be crippled. In North America the financial base for 3ABN appears to be provided by elderly members who have substituted 3ABN for more "healthy" spiritual activity (personal prayer, study, and evangelism). What did elderly people (including Christians) used to do with their lives before the advent of the "tube"?
For some time an inordinate emphasis has been placed upon sattelite evangelism in North America. Sattelite evangelism though, is viewed by many as a bandaid measure to infuse life into a dying church. Members often engage in this form of evangelism not as a "reaping" event where the interests that they have been personnally working with are brought to harvest; but instead, it becomes an activity where Laodiceans can engage in evangelism by proxy. The evangelist presents the message. The pastor and elders do the follow-up. A handful of souls are baptized and we feel better about ourselves. The end result? Disciples do not grow in their relationship with and trust in the Lord, nor in their character development, because they are not actively seeking the lost.
We are now in the third and final wave of world missions. The first angels message outlines this clearly - the everlasting gospel will go to every "nation" (ethne = ethnic group), kindred, tongue, and people group. Jesus plainly stated that when this gospel is preached to "all nations (ethne = people groups) then the end will come. There are approximately 10,000 or so "people groups" yet to be reached by the everlasting gospel. Many of them exist in seemingly "unreachable" situations. There are approximately 7,000 major languages on earth - nearly 5,000 do not have a Bible in their own tongue. Surely God is going to have to perform some miracles to finish this work. 3ABN is not that miracle. The majority of these peoples will not be reached by contributing to Danny Shelton and gang, who will finish the work for us by proxy with their technology.
"He had now come from nowhere and had taken the message to the whole world."
Danny has not taken the 3 Angels messages to the world. Yes 3ABN does contribute to this work by promoting organizations like "Global Mission", "Gospel Outreach" and "AFM" etc. But what God really needs is not more sattelite downlinks (Or television evangelists) but more living breathing disciples who are willing to risk all to be face to face frontier/cross-cultural missionaries - reaching the truely unreached (not preaching to an Adventist choir). If Danny steps down, I suggest that he leave his horses and mansion to live in the jungle for 10 years. It might do his soul some good.

I appreciate your comments very much. You've given me a lot to think about here. I'll reread it whan I get back tonight. I'd like to know if there is really a strong connection between the Three Angel's Broadcasting Network and the actual three angels messages, or if it's just a title that is being used for appeal. I'm not sure I see much connection at this point, although I do hear some.

[Voktar of Zargon]

Of course various aspects of the 3 Angels messages are broadcast. Full evangelsitic series are broadcast. Our evangelists usually highlight the main points of these messages, The Judgment, Healthful Living, The Sabbath, Come out of Babylon into the Remnant, The Mark of the Beast, The commandments of God, Justification/Righteousness by Faith etc. Various aspects of these messages are also highlighted in a seemingly haphazard way at other times. What is the goal of all this truth? To restore the image of God in man. To prepare a people for the second coming. Obviously we are still here, so something must be awry with the church (that includes me), not just 3ABN (diagnosis Rev.3).
I can't help but think that if the leaders of 3ABN were really experiencing these messages (especially the 3rd one), 3 ABN would be radically different, or non-existent. The 3rd angels message is designed to lay the pride of man in the dust. It seems that there is enough pride to go around for a 3 ring circus.
"Although he spent most of the sermon talking about himself,..."
"Is this not great 3ABN which I have built(And me alone)?!" In telling people to come out of Babylon we must first have Babylon removed from our own hearts - or we are nothing more than Adventist Babylonians.
I have a tape somewhere of H.M.S. Richards Sr. relating the story of when he first heard Ellen White speak. She spoke as a dear mother to her chidren - without miracle stories, emotional appeals, oratorical devices, evangelistic trickery, or covetous agendas. Her message was saturated with 100 Bible texts or more. When she finally knelt to pray, Richards was afraid to open his eyes for fear of seeing Jesus right there on the platform. The power of her intimacy with God was the precipitating factor that brought the Holy Spirit like a convicting wave over the congregation.
Dependence upon technology (works of man's devising) instead of the Holy Spirit seems to lean more towards righteousness by works instead of righteousness by faith. Face it, one solar flare could wipe the whole thing out, then where would we be?
One of the most powerful encounters with the Holy Spirit I ever experienced was in a church where there was deep rooted pain and enmity, long standing grudges etc. One evening everyone at a meeting seemed to be simultaneously convicted to confess to one another everything they had thought or done that was unChristlike towards every other individual there. Tears flowed freely. Under the unction of the Holy Spirit every member was convicted that it was their individual duty to make full peace with everyone else in the room, no matter if no one else did likewise. When Adventists live the message they preach this is the movement we will see - not threats, lines drawn in the sand, demonizings, evil surmisings etc.

This post has been edited by Voktar of Zargon: Apr 15 2007, 05:27 AM

[Clay]

Dan 4:37 Now I, Nebuchadnezzar, praise and exalt and honor the King of Heaven, for all His works are truth, and His ways are justice. And He is able to humble those who walk in pride.

If it took 7 years for Nebuchadnezzar... how long will it take for some of us?

[PeacefulBe]

Of course various aspects of the 3 Angels messages are broadcast. Full evangelsitic series are broadcast. Our evangelists usually highlight the main points of these messages, The Judgment, Healthful Living, The Sabbath, Come out of Babylon into the Remnant, The Mark of the Beast, The commandments of God, Justification/Righteousness by Faith etc. Various aspects of these messages are also highlighted in a seemingly haphazard way at other times. What is the goal of all this truth? To restore the image of God in man. To prepare a people for the second coming. Obviously we are still here, so something must be awry with the church (that includes me), not just 3ABN (diagnosis Rev.3).
I can't help but think that if the leaders of 3ABN were really experiencing these messages (especially the 3rd one), 3 ABN would be radically different, or non-existent. The 3rd angels message is designed to lay the pride of man in the dust. It seems that there is enough pride to go around for a 3 ring circus.
"Although he spent most of the sermon talking about himself,..."
"Is this not great 3ABN which I have built(And me alone)?!" In telling people to come out of Babylon we must first have Babylon removed from our own hearts - or we are nothing more than Adventist Babylonians.
I have a tape somewhere of H.M.S. Richards Sr. relating the story of when he first heard Ellen White speak. She spoke as a dear mother to her chidren - without miracle stories, emotional appeals, oratorical devices, evangelistic trickery, or covetous agendas. Her message was saturated with 100 Bible texts or more. When she finally knelt to pray, Richards was afraid to open his eyes for fear of seeing Jesus right there on the platform. The power of her intimacy with God was the precipitating factor that brought the Holy Spirit like a convicting wave over the congregation.
Dependence upon technology (works of man's devising) instead of the Holy Spirit seems to lean more towards righteousness by works instead righteousness by faith. Face it, one solar flare could wipe the whole thing out, then where would we be?
[b]One of the most powerful encounters with the Holy Spirit I ever experienced was in a church where there was deep rooted pain and enmity, long standing grudges etc. One evening everyone at a meeting seemed to be simultaneously convicted to confess to one another everything they had thought or done that was unChristlike towards every other individual there. Tears flowed freely. Under the unction of the Holy Spirit every member was convicted that it was their individual duty to make full peace with everyone else in the room, no matter if no one else did likewise. When Adventists live the message they preach this is the movement we will see - not threats, lines drawn in the sand, demonizings, evil surmisings etc.[/b]

If only we could see this restoration in this saga for everyone involved!

[sonshineonme]

"Although he spent most of the sermon talking about himself,..."
"Is this not great 3ABN which I have built(And me alone)?!"

Voktar

So well said!

As for this part of what you said....you are not the first one to see the similarity between Neb and DS.

[Voktar of Zargon]

If only we could see this restoration in this saga for everyone involved!

AMEN.

[PeacefulBe]

LD,
Is this the program that you watched? I have tried to find out if it is a recent one but can't locate the answer.

10AM, 3ABN On the Road #545 (Reflecting God`s Character) - Danny Shelton

[rwelchcrs]

This particular 3ABN thread is one of the most informative, thought-provoking, and constructive threads I've read during the past 2-plus years of the 3ABN-saga ribbon of threads on this site. Thank you LaurenceD and Voktar. You've given me some refreshing perspective.

[Bystander]

"Although he spent most of the sermon talking about himself,..."
"Is this not great 3ABN which I have built(And me alone)?!" In telling people to come out of Babylon we must first have Babylon removed from our own hearts - or we are nothing more than Adventist Babylonians.

Really? are those the words he used? No they weren't. In fact, I have heard him over and over through the years glorifying not only God, but all of those who have brought their talents and expertise to the ministry. I have heard the statement " if it was up to me to know about down links, or if it was up to me to know about graphics or cameras or computers, then nothing would have gotten done. He has always given God the credit for the miracles.

You seem to be criticizing that he was talking about the work at 3abn instead of a 3 angels message. Let me clarify. DS isn't a pastor and doesn't profess to be. That is why there are other pastors like CA murray and John Dinzey that can preach the sermons at a 3abn visit or rally. It is DS's job to talk about 3abn. He talks about, What is going on with expansion, what are future plans, and many stories of souls that have walked into adventist churches ready to join, because of what they have seen on 3abn. To tell the work that has been accomplished by God, through 3abn, is glorifying Him. Without God, 3abn would not exist. This is not to see that he doesn't refer to scripture or Ellen White at times, of course he does, but he lets the experts preach the sermons.

As I said, he lets the pastors do their job and he does his. It is a good combination that works well for all concerned, especially the audience.

This post has been edited by Bystander: Mar 13 2007, 11:45 PM

[princessdi]

Uh, BS, I am sure VOZ will answer your queries. I am just going to tell you that the line to which you were referring, is a text from the Bible. Spoken by Nebuchadnezzar....shortly before he started grazing. Of course it was changed to add "3ABN",,,,,,, Anyway, here is the text:
Daniel 4:30
30The king spake, and said, Is not this great Babylon, that I have built for the house of the kingdom by the might of my power, and for the honour of my majesty?

Really? are those the words he used? No they weren't. In fact, I have heard him over and over through the years glorifying not only God, but all of those who have brought their talents and expertise to the ministry. I have heard the statement " if it was up to me to know about down links, or if it was up to me to know about graphics or cameras or computers, then nothing would have gotten done. He has always given God the credit for the miracles.

You seem to be criticizing that he was talking about the work at 3abn instead of a 3 angels message. Let me clarify. DS isn't a pastor and doesn't profess to be. That is why there are other pastors like CA murray and John Dinzey that can preach the sermons at a 3abn visit or rally. It is DS's job to talk about 3abn. He talks about, What is going on with expansion, what are future plans, and many stories of souls that have walked into adventist churches ready to join, because of what they have seen on 3abn. To tell the work that has been accomplished by God, through 3abn, is glorifying Him. Without God, 3abn would not exist.

As I said, he lets the pastors do their job and he does his. It is a good combination that works well for all concerned, especially the audience.

[Bystander]

Uh, BS, I am sure VOZ will answer your queries. I am just going to tell you that the line to which you were referring, is a text from the Bible. Spoken by Nebuchadnezzar....shortly before he started grazing. Of course it was changed to add "3ABN",,,,,,, Anyway, here is the text:
Daniel 4:30
30The king spake, and said, Is not this great Babylon, that I have built for the house of the kingdom by the might of my power, and for the honour of my majesty?

Yes I realized that, but, knowing how some here like to twist things, I knew by tomorrow it would be a fact that DS said those words. So I was just trying to clarify.