Definition Of Molestation, Penetration, Fondling, and Forced Sexual Viewing Options

[mozart]

This is a local story for all those who believe it is too late for TS to be charged for his deeds:

Child Psychiatrist accused and arrested for Child Molestation

Of special interest to you all will be the fact th the investigation took four years, and this man has been dodging molestation reports since the 1980's.

[Observer]

The Statute of Limitation will vary according to the State in which the crime was committed. Therefore what happens in California may not apply to IL.

[LadyTenor]

The Statute of Limitation will vary according to the State in which the crime was committed. Therefore what happens in California may not apply to IL.

Very true! Moreover, the issue of whether molestation is ongoing or separate acts will also affect the statute of limitations. These principles will also differ by state.

[princessdi]

Ok, but it IS a possiblity, and if I remember correctly did not the Catholic church cases span several states?

[Whtz Happenin]

Mozart, You should really see someone about your tendency to destroy your head. Or am I underestimating how hard of a head you have?

[mozart]

Mozart, You should really see someone about your tendency to destroy your head. Or am I underestimating how hard of a head you have?

as long as it's just my head it can't hurt me

[PrincessDrRe]

Bump - for the sake of the definition of truth....

[PrincessDrRe]

[Johann]

Very true! Moreover, the issue of whether molestation is ongoing or separate acts will also affect the statute of limitations. These principles will also differ by state.

[Shepherdswife]

>>The Victim's may forgive but they can never forget. It is always there. It determines how one thinks and it affects the decisions made in life. If they are abused early in life will they feel they are only acceptable to other abusers. They move on to abusive relationships.<<


Fran, you are correct there. The ones here who seem to be minimizing and doubting and deflecting this alleged abuse have no understanding of what has been taken from a victim (no matter the age) by an abuser and what it takes for them--especially if they are male, to come forward. In fact, I would venture to say (from personal experience, both as a survivor and as someone who has worked with victims and survivors for years now) that some of those who are mimizing might be victims themselves who cling to the belief that "it was done, get on with life" to keep the darkness and pain inside themselves from rising to the surface. (Notice I said "some" and "might". I am not making any accusations. Just observations...)

Abused people often are attracted to and marry people who also have had abuse of some kind in their family dynamic. Like attracts like. Dysfunction attracts dysfunction. A dysfunctional church attracts dysfunctional people as well. Organizations can be the same way. A dynamic leader tends to attract people who are comfortable with his style of leadership and the decisions he makes. Those who don't like what he/she does do not stay around very long. So the climate is perpetuated and there are defenses built against change or attacks--the wagons are circled and everything is attributed to Satan. I grew up in a very conservative "supporting ministry" with a strong leader, so I have watched it work.

And to stay on topic, the victim immediately and from then on feels dirty, damaged and different, whether it is rape, fondling, inappropriate words or suggestions, or any of the other things on the list that was originally posted. And it takes a LONG time to reprogram the brain from the changes that occur in that encounter(s) that can take only seconds. Yes, there is healing. Yes, you can become stronger than you even would have been. Yes, God can use it for good. One way He does that (I believe) is He uses us to raise the bar of accountability, since we know what it is like and we don't want to allow it to be done to someone else if there is anything we can do to stop it.

I have sympathy for perpetrators and alleged perpetrators. Most of them were victims themselves. Forgiveness is freely given by God, but it doesn't take the place of accountability and consequences. Read Nathan's speech to David after he confessed and repented... 'The Lord also has taken away your sin; you shall not die. However, because by this deed you have given occasion to the enemies of the Lord of blaspheme, the child also that is born to you shall surely die."

shepherdswife--who has been reading all this for awhile and finally decided to add my thoughts...

[runner4him]

>>The Victim's may forgive but they can never forget. It is always there. It determines how one thinks and it affects the decisions made in life. If they are abused early in life will they feel they are only acceptable to other abusers. They move on to abusive relationships.<<
Fran, you are correct there. The ones here who seem to be minimizing and doubting and deflecting this alleged abuse have no understanding of what has been taken from a victim (no matter the age) by an abuser and what it takes for them--especially if they are male, to come forward. In fact, I would venture to say (from personal experience, both as a survivor and as someone who has worked with victims and survivors for years now) that some of those who are mimizing might be victims themselves who cling to the belief that "it was done, get on with life" to keep the darkness and pain inside themselves from rising to the surface. (Notice I said "some" and "might". I am not making any accusations. Just observations...)

Abused people often are attracted to and marry people who also have had abuse of some kind in their family dynamic. Like attracts like. Dysfunction attracts dysfunction. A dysfunctional church attracts dysfunctional people as well. Organizations can be the same way. A dynamic leader tends to attract people who are comfortable with his style of leadership and the decisions he makes. Those who don't like what he/she does do not stay around very long. So the climate is perpetuated and there are defenses built against change or attacks--the wagons are circled and everything is attributed to Satan. I grew up in a very conservative "supporting ministry" with a strong leader, so I have watched it work.

And to stay on topic, the victim immediately and from then on feels dirty, damaged and different, whether it is rape, fondling, inappropriate words or suggestions, or any of the other things on the list that was originally posted. And it takes a LONG time to reprogram the brain from the changes that occur in that encounter(s) that can take only seconds. Yes, there is healing. Yes, you can become stronger than you even would have been. Yes, God can use it for good. One way He does that (I believe) is He uses us to raise the bar of accountability, since we know what it is like and we don't want to allow it to be done to someone else if there is anything we can do to stop it.

I have sympathy for perpetrators and alleged perpetrators. Most of them were victims themselves. Forgiveness is freely given by God, but it doesn't take the place of accountability and consequences. Read Nathan's speech to David after he confessed and repented... 'The Lord also has taken away your sin; you shall not die. However, because by this deed you have given occasion to the enemies of the Lord of blaspheme, the child also that is born to you shall surely die."

shepherdswife--who has been reading all this for awhile and finally decided to add my thoughts...

Thank you for your words. May God give all of us a better understanding and more compassion!

[Whtz Happenin]

shepherdswife--who has been reading all this for awhile and finally decided to add my thoughts...

Welcome Shepherdswife! I perceive your thoughts as one who understands the seriousness of the situation. I praise God that your journey has produced victory in this area and that you are now helping others find the path to victory.

[PeacefulBe]

Shepherdswife,

Welcome to BSDA and bless you for sharing your testimony! I pray that all will have a greater understanding of the impact, no matter how minimal it may appear to some looking on, abuse has on a person and their families.

I ask that we all join our prayers that Doug, Danny and their boards will see the importance of dealing with this issue for the welfare of the alleged victims, the alleged predator and the health of their ministries.

[Seraphim7]

Shepherdswife

>>The Victim's may forgive but they can never forget. It is always there. It determines how one thinks and it affects the decisions made in life. If they are abused early in life will they feel they are only acceptable to other abusers. They move on to abusive relationships.<<

Though I agree with much of what you have shared, in principle, I must ask the following. Did you mean to preface the above comments with question marks?

It has been my experience that some can forgive and forget and yes be healed of the brokenness they experience after being abused. Though that process will likely take years, if it happens at all, when the issue of their abuse are kept secret or, swept under the rug by those they love and trust and, the victim is not acknowledged as such or, given the opportunity to work through the pain, suffering and guilt that usually comes, in most cases, after one has been abused.

A victim can forgive, heal and move on with his/her life, though doing so, in most cases, is a very long process. Forgetting is also possible, through the renewing of our minds, which can ONLY be done through Christ Jesus. Forgetting, in the sense that the victim, through the healing process does not allow those memories to determine how he/she views every other aspect of life. Nor will the prior memories continually affect the decisions made in their lives. (I am sure you did not intended suggest it however, your statement could be read to mean "all decisions" seeing that you were not specific.) What will ultimately determine a persons ability to move on with his/her life is whether he/she has surrendered themselves to God and has allowed Him, through the Holy Spirit, to let this mind be in them that was also in Christ Jesus. To finish my thought on forgetting... it is possible in the sense that all decisions made will not be overshadowed by the memories of their experience. Whether in social relationships, areas like friendships, school, work. dating etc. they can make decisions that are based in the fact that their minds have been renewed, after one has surrendered to the Lord. Some victims attempt to move forward on simple will power and, though it is admirable that some try to move forward and not let their experience permeate every aspect of their lives, will power can not do what only Jesus Christ the righteous can.

Finally, bear in mind most of us are aware that everyone who has been a victim, of any kind, has not nor will they all accept Christ Jesus as their personal Savior. I am simply pointing out that the freedom to forgive and forget IS possible for anyone who makes the choice to make Jesus their personal Savior. Our challenge as believers is, if we daily submit our as we should, is to let our light so shine before men that they might see your good works and glorify our Father in heaven. The victims around us could very well be drawn to know Christ Jesus, who will be seen through the light of our lives. And the burdens they carry will be lifted, as we bear them up showing them love, compassion and acceptance. That's my 2cents worth.

Again, welcome and be blessed.


This post has been edited by seraph|m: Apr 28 2007, 06:58 AM

[Shepherdswife]

Hi Seraph/m, thanks for the welcome…

No, I did not want question marks on that quote. I was quoting something that Fran said as a springboard for my comments, and as I am new, did not know how to put it in a box like others have.

So your question asking me what decisions I was talking about --I quote you…“I am sure you did not intended suggest it however, your statement could be read to mean "all decisions" seeing that you were not specific”-- needs to be directed to Fran, since she made the original statement.

However, I agree with what she said, and in that context, will answer for myself. In my opinion, and in my personal experience, even after I find healing and forgiveness and new life in Christ, my past affects me. It may not rule me, and it may not govern my decisions--I may make my decisions in spite of it, but it still affects everything. It is part of what has made me who and what I am. Maybe others have moved on to “new life” where their molestation has no effect, but I have not found it to be so. That said, the wound can be a scar, not an infected, open gash. But it does leave a scar. If nothing else, usually by the time you find healing, you have passed by a season or two of life and never will have the chance educationally, etc to be the same person you might have been had the abuse not occurred. We could discuss semantics all day and we might be saying the same thing, but this was my response to what you said.

I also come from a very different place than you have, so will also comment on your last paragraph re: healing only coming through Christ.

Yes, all emotional healing comes through Christ, just as all physical healing does. I believe God has designed the body and the mind to include an “automatic” healing process. We tend to understand the physical healing process much better than the emotional one, however. The white blood cells, the ability to clot, all are there ready to do their work the instant a cut happens. I don’t have to think about it to make it begin. We humans can facilitate or hinder the healing process. There are basic principles for physical wounds: clean it out, protect from further injury, immobilize if broken, etc. If I go against them, the wound will not heal. If I do not understand and go against the principles of emotional healing--if I remain in an abusive situation, if I deny and cover up, if I focus on relieving symptoms rather than dealing with the cause, I will hinder emotional healing as well.

So yes, all healing is Divine in origin, but some (like myself) whose abuse was at least partially attributed to God or His will (and much of the alleged abuse discussed here falls into that category) cannot immediately see God as the healer, since He was a big part of the problem (because of the abusers misrepresentation of Him). Yet in my experience the principles of emotional healing can be taught to them by professionals or a recovery group and practiced by them and healing can begin, whether or not they are “accepting Jesus as their Savior”. With me, the healing had to start first, then I began to be able to see the flaws in what I was taught about God, which then led to a new relationship with Him, which led to more healing… and so on.

Everyone’s journey is different, and none of us can speak for all of us. I am not trying to argue with what you said, just giving my perspective.

shepherdswife