 Definition Of Molestation, Penetration, Fondling, and Forced Sexual Viewing |
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 May 5 2007, 07:21 AM
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#61
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 500 + posts  Group: Members Posts: 894 Joined: 18-September 06 Member No.: 2,262 Gender: m  |
One of the things that makes me so angry about this is the people who have been willing to blow off this pattern of abuse because some of the victims seemed to have been"of age" at the time.
If it were a pastor seducing 19yo girls it would not only be immoral, but a serious abuse of power issue--especially in light of how his victims testify that he approached the subject. Why should it be any different in this case? -------------------- "The entire world is falling apart because no one will admit they are wrong." -- Don Miller, Blue Like Jazz. |
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May 5 2007, 01:34 PM
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#62
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 Advanced Member  Group: Members Posts: 264 Joined: 23-April 07 Member No.: 3,427 Gender: f |
QUOTE(SoulEspresso @ May 5 2007, 07:21 AM) [snapback]194202[/snapback] One of the things that makes me so angry about this is the people who have been willing to blow off this pattern of abuse because some of the victims seemed to have been"of age" at the time. If it were a pastor seducing 19yo girls it would not only be immoral, but a serious abuse of power issue--especially in light of how his victims testify that he approached the subject. Why should it be any different in this case? I agree SoulEspresso! It is a sad day for all of us when we find people willing to blow off abuse at any age. |
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May 5 2007, 08:52 PM
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#63
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 PrincessDrRe  Group: Financial Donor Posts: 9,011 Joined: 8-November 04 Member No.: 712 Gender: f |
QUOTE(SoulEspresso @ May 5 2007, 08:21 AM) [snapback]194202[/snapback] One of the things that makes me so angry about this is the people who have been willing to blow off this pattern of abuse because some of the victims seemed to have been"of age" at the time. If it were a pastor seducing 19yo girls it would not only be immoral, but a serious abuse of power issue--especially in light of how his victims testify that he approached the subject. Why should it be any different in this case? ....or sweep it under the rug because they are a "pastor"..... *(insert raspberry tongue blowing noise here)* -------------------- *"Some folks use their ignorance like a umbrella. It covers everything, they perodically take it out from time to time, but it never is too far away from them."*
PrincessDrRe; March, 2007 ~"Blood = Meat, Face = Meat, Internal "Organs" = Meat - you can try to make it cuter; but it's still meat...."~ PrincessDrRe; September, 2007 *(NOTE: Any advice given by Re' Silvey, MSW is not to be taken as medical/mental health advice. Although trained to be a counselor, currently employed as a therapist, and currently pursuing her PhD in Counseling Psychology (ABD/I) - she is not your assigned therapist. Please consult a mental health professional of your choice for a face-to-face consultation.)* |
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May 5 2007, 11:28 PM
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#64
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 500 + posts Group: Financial Donor Posts: 629 Joined: 8-August 04 From: Over here Member No.: 529 Gender: f |
QUOTE(PrincessDrRe @ May 5 2007, 09:52 PM) [snapback]194279[/snapback] ....or sweep it under the rug because they are a "pastor"..... *(insert raspberry tongue blowing noise here)* I hear that one! -------------------- The greatest want of the world is the want of men-- men who will not be bought or sold, men who in their inmost souls are true and honest, men who do not fear to call sin by its right name, men whose conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole, men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall. {Ed 57.3}
But such a character is not the result of accident; it is not due to special favors or endowments of Providence. A noble character is the result of self-discipline, of the subjection of the lower to the higher nature--the surrender of self for the service of love to God and man. {Ed 57.4} |
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May 13 2007, 07:34 PM
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#65
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PrincessDrRe Group: Financial Donor Posts: 9,011 Joined: 8-November 04 Member No.: 712 Gender: f |
Bump.
A "reminder" whether some want to be reminded or not. 
-------------------- *"Some folks use their ignorance like a umbrella. It covers everything, they perodically take it out from time to time, but it never is too far away from them."*
PrincessDrRe; March, 2007 ~"Blood = Meat, Face = Meat, Internal "Organs" = Meat - you can try to make it cuter; but it's still meat...."~ PrincessDrRe; September, 2007 *(NOTE: Any advice given by Re' Silvey, MSW is not to be taken as medical/mental health advice. Although trained to be a counselor, currently employed as a therapist, and currently pursuing her PhD in Counseling Psychology (ABD/I) - she is not your assigned therapist. Please consult a mental health professional of your choice for a face-to-face consultation.)* |
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May 14 2007, 09:26 PM
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#66
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PrincessDrRe Group: Financial Donor Posts: 9,011 Joined: 8-November 04 Member No.: 712 Gender: f |
bump!
-------------------- *"Some folks use their ignorance like a umbrella. It covers everything, they perodically take it out from time to time, but it never is too far away from them."*
PrincessDrRe; March, 2007 ~"Blood = Meat, Face = Meat, Internal "Organs" = Meat - you can try to make it cuter; but it's still meat...."~ PrincessDrRe; September, 2007 *(NOTE: Any advice given by Re' Silvey, MSW is not to be taken as medical/mental health advice. Although trained to be a counselor, currently employed as a therapist, and currently pursuing her PhD in Counseling Psychology (ABD/I) - she is not your assigned therapist. Please consult a mental health professional of your choice for a face-to-face consultation.)* |
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May 14 2007, 09:42 PM
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#67
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 site admin  Group: Owner Posts: 2,833 Joined: 17-July 03 From: Omaha, Nebraska Member No.: 1 Gender: m |
DrRe you have done enough bumping of this topic. Now do you have anything to add to the discussion?
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May 17 2007, 07:33 AM
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#68
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 1,000 + posts  Group: Members Posts: 1,521 Joined: 17-October 04 From: Iceland, formerly Denmark, Norway, USA, Sierra Leone, Nigeria, Faeroe Islands. Bound for Heaven. Member No.: 686 Gender: m |
QUOTE(calvin @ May 15 2007, 05:42 AM) [snapback]195594[/snapback] DrRe you have done enough bumping of this topic. Now do you have anything to add to the discussion? She might be waiting for your input, Calvin? -------------------- "Any fact that needs to be disclosed should be put out now or as quickly as possible, because otherwise the bleeding will not end." (Attributed to Henry Kissinger) "He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it" (Martin Luther King)  "The truth can lose nothing by close investigation". (1888 Materials 38) |
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May 17 2007, 08:46 PM
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#69
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500 + posts Group: Members Posts: 894 Joined: 18-September 06 Member No.: 2,262 Gender: m |
QUOTE(calvin @ May 14 2007, 08:42 PM) [snapback]195594[/snapback] DrRe you have done enough bumping of this topic. Now do you have anything to add to the discussion? Well, bumping it does serve to remind us that the biggest problem in this whole saga has not been the divorce, nor the lawsuits, nor the financial abuses (alleged ... but other evidence has not been forthcoming). It's these victims that have been coming forward, and the evidence sez Danny & Walt covered it up. SEX ABUSE. At the most visible Adventist ministry in the world. It's unconscionable, and like other churches we already had the habit of glossing over. If this hits the media I hope we learn from it. If it doesn't, we won't--and you can take that to the bank. This post has been edited by SoulEspresso: May 17 2007, 08:47 PM -------------------- "The entire world is falling apart because no one will admit they are wrong." -- Don Miller, Blue Like Jazz. |
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May 17 2007, 09:57 PM
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#70
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 Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 425 Joined: 17-March 07 Member No.: 3,207 Gender: m |
I think we need to remember also that homosexuality is an abomination to God, so consenting or of age is irrelavent.
There seems to be many issues of preversion here. Abusing a minor, abusing your power over those younger or smaller than you and homosexuality. Even if TS is never found guilty of abuse, he will always be guilty of the abomination of homosexualilty. QUOTE(SoulEspresso @ May 17 2007, 07:46 PM) [snapback]195950[/snapback] Well, bumping it does serve to remind us that the biggest problem in this whole saga has not been the divorce, nor the lawsuits, nor the financial abuses (alleged ... but other evidence has not been forthcoming). It's these victims that have been coming forward, and the evidence sez Danny & Walt covered it up. SEX ABUSE. At the most visible Adventist ministry in the world. It's unconscionable, and like other churches we already had the habit of glossing over. If this hits the media I hope we learn from it. If it doesn't, we won't--and you can take that to the bank. -------------------- Thess. 2:16-17 - Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and our God and Father, who has loved us and given us everlasting consolation and good hope by grace, comfort your hearts and establish you in every good word and work."
[quote: fine art] "Instead we seem to be using sensationalism, emotionalism, moving lights and motivational speakers that are prepared to manipulate, by well chosen words, the minds of the listeners. It used to be, messages that were given by our pioneers were wrenched from the depths of the heart by the Holy Spirit. Humor was not added to get that laugh of entertainment. Drama was not introduced behind the sacred desk to glue your attention. Man's Rationale has replaced a cry for God's wisdom." "How To Be Free From Bitterness" ( booklet written by Jim Wilson of Community Christian Ministries, Moscow, Idaho - E-mail: ccm@moscow.com ) |
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May 18 2007, 07:20 AM
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#71
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 1,000 + posts Group: Members Posts: 2,251 Joined: 25-August 06 Member No.: 2,169 Gender: f |
QUOTE(mozart @ May 17 2007, 07:57 PM) [snapback]195955[/snapback] I think we need to remember also that homosexuality is an abomination to God, so consenting or of age is irrelavent. There seems to be many issues of preversion here. Abusing a minor, abusing your power over those younger or smaller than you and homosexuality. Even if TS is never found guilty of abuse, he will always be guilty of the abomination of homosexualilty. I would urge a bit of caution here. ALL sin is an abomination to God because it separates us from Him. From my own observation, there appears to be far more discussion of other types of sin in the Bible than there is for the sin of homosexuality. It is not singled out. I don't believe it holds any greater status as "sin" than any other. I don't believe that there are sins that are more safe to commit than homosexual ones. They all put us in the same position - away from God. Lot's former stomping grounds were not obliterated just for homosexual behavior. That city was destroyed because its residents were completely lost in their focus on and practice of sexual perversions of all kinds. I believe that what we are and should be concerned about getting to the truth of as far as Tommy Shelton is concerned is not if he has homosexual tendencies but whether or not used his position and power as a pastor to abuse those in his care and whether his brother, or any others, assisted in covering up such behavior to protect TS and the Shelton or 3abn image. We know he abused Duane Clem. We have seen that proof. We know there are statements from other that claim abuse and statements that his brother, Danny Shelton, attempted to intimidate them into silence by calls and threats of legal action. We have even seen letters from the 3abn attorney that make such threats. This is the area we need to see properly investigated and proven true and resolved or proven false laid to rest. If Tommy has behaved in a homosexual manner with any freely consenting, adult male partner that is none of our business. That is between Tommy and God alone. This is my opinion. -------------------- Got Peace?
John 14:27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid. "Truth welcomes examination and doesn't need to defend itself, while deception hides in darkness and blames everyone else." Aunt B, 2007 |
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May 18 2007, 07:33 AM
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#72
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 264 Joined: 23-April 07 Member No.: 3,427 Gender: f |
QUOTE(SoulEspresso @ May 17 2007, 08:46 PM) [snapback]195950[/snapback] SEX ABUSE. At the most visible Adventist ministry in the world. It's unconscionable, and like other churches we already had the habit of glossing over. If this hits the media I hope we learn from it. If it doesn't, we won't--and you can take that to the bank. QUOTE QUOTE(mozart @ May 17 2007, 07:57 PM) There seems to be many issues of preversion here. Abusing a minor, abusing your power over those younger or smaller than you and homosexuality. Even if TS is never found guilty of abuse, he will always be guilty of the abomination of homosexualilty. Thank you for your words SoulEspresso & Mozart. We needed to be reminded that a terrible thing has happened with this alleged cover up of sexual abuse of minors by a very prominent ministry. I agree maybe we will not wake up and learn unless this hits the media. I have prayed that our church leaders would speak up instead of being behind the scenes doing I am not sure what. Do they want it to take a drastic turn with the media involved? We MUST not gloss over this. God sees every work and we must remember that "your sin will find you out". This post has been edited by runner4him: May 18 2007, 07:35 AM |
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May 18 2007, 09:15 AM
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#73
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 Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 356 Joined: 25-December 06 From: West Frankfort, IL Member No.: 2,722 Gender: m |
QUOTE(PeacefullyBewildered @ May 18 2007, 08:20 AM) [snapback]195967[/snapback] I believe that what we are and should be concerned about getting to the truth of as far as Tommy Shelton is concerned is not if he has homosexual tendencies but whether or not used his position and power as a pastor to abuse those in his care and whether his brother, or any others, assisted in covering up such behavior to protect TS and the Shelton or 3abn image. We know he abused Duane Clem. We have seen that proof. We know there are statements from other that claim abuse and statements that his brother, Danny Shelton, attempted to intimidate them into silence by calls and threats of legal action. We have even seen letters from the 3abn attorney that make such threats. This is the area we need to see properly investigated and proven true and resolved or proven false laid to rest. Speaking of which, I have not heard a peep from anyone trying to silence me. This is proof that Danny is not stupid. He knows that if I even get a threat letter, it will be posted on the forums and on Save3abn.com. -------------------- Duane Clem
It's not about religion, it's about a relationship. Gems of Wisdom "Lisa and Ronda are not Danny's biological father." -- wwjd, 2/8/07 "Watchbird, The facts prove the above lie." -- wwjd, 2/13/07 "Another lie that can be proven..." -- Bystander, 3/18/07 "The thing about lies is they can be proven." -- Aletheia, 3/22/07 "I am not here to argue" -- Aletheia, 4/24/07 "She didn't move to 3ABN, she moved to Illinois" -- Aletheia, 4/25/07 "Hope is liberal. 3abn is not." -- steffan, 6/9/07 "Danny Shelton does not decide what goes on the air, period." -- appletree, 8/22/07 http://www.save-3abn.com/ http://www.investigating3abn.info/ http://rescue3abn.blog.com/ http://www.abundantrest.org/?p=74 http://abundantrest.org/2007/02/18/3abn-sa...ons-retirement/ http://anewsabbathschool.blogspot.com/2006...ain-wrecks.html http://cafesda.blogspot.com/2006/08/atoday...bn-news_21.html http://www.atoday.com/email/2007/02/12/ http://spectrummagazine.typepad.com/the_sp...eans_and_e.html |
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May 18 2007, 11:40 AM
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#74
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1,000 + posts Group: Members Posts: 1,483 Joined: 29-July 06 Member No.: 1,960 Gender: m |
QUOTE(PeacefullyBewildered @ May 18 2007, 07:20 AM) [snapback]195967[/snapback] If Tommy has behaved in a homosexual manner with any freely consenting, adult male partner that is none of our business. That is between Tommy and God alone. If Tommy has done such things and has not repented and ceased, and if Danny knowing such put him into a high position of authority within a supporting ministry of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, a ministry that claims to be preaching the three angels' messages undiluted, including, "Here is the patience of the saints. Here are they that keep the commandments of God," then I think it is our business. |
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May 18 2007, 12:26 PM
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#75
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 Heiress Josey Group: Charter Member Posts: 9,020 Joined: 20-July 03 From: DC Metro Member No.: 6 Gender: m |
QUOTE(SoulEspresso @ May 17 2007, 11:46 PM) [snapback]195950[/snapback] Well, bumping it does serve to remind us that the biggest problem in this whole saga has not been the divorce, nor the lawsuits, nor the financial abuses (alleged ... but other evidence has not been forthcoming). It's these victims that have been coming forward, and the evidence sez Danny & Walt covered it up. SEX ABUSE. At the most visible Adventist ministry in the world. It's unconscionable, and like other churches we already had the habit of glossing over. If this hits the media I hope we learn from it. If it doesn't, we won't--and you can take that to the bank. Point taken and, well said. We can only assume that those in a position to make things right have considered that they have placed ALL the members of the church body at risk of being painted with the same brush of distasteful behavior as the actual culprits of said behavior. It does not matter that this one person does not represent the Adventist church in name. The fact that he held a prominent position among those who claim to represent the church is what will be remembered by the majority. The credibility of every congregation and each member, whether directly associated with this mess, or not, will be called into question because the powers that be will be seen as turning a blind eye to it for so long.  This makes me wonder, do the powers that be really care?  QUOTE(Pickle @ May 18 2007, 02:40 PM) [snapback]195987[/snapback] If Tommy has done such things and has not repented and ceased, and if Danny knowing such put him into a high position of authority within a supporting ministry of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, a ministry that claims to be preaching the three angels' messages undiluted, including, "Here is the patience of the saints. Here are they that keep the commandments of God," then I think it is our business. AMEN. Consenting adults or not sin is sin. And their very public and private behavior will have an affect on EVERY Seventh day Adventist ministry, whether folks are willing to believe it or not.
This post has been edited by seraph|m: May 18 2007, 12:21 PM -------------------- WELCOME to BlackSDA from seraph|m, a BSDA Charter member.
Please Join us in The Married Forum and/or Sabbath School Lesson Study forums. Then, come join us here, Live Chat Lesson Study ,for our Friday night study @ 8pm CST/9pm EST. The lesson can be found at Sabbath School Network (SSNET) Motto- "Weapons of Mass Distraction, Have No Place Here. " "Qui tacet consentire videtur," Are not official staff mottos and are not endorsed by BSDA Management. |
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