Can One Defy The 3abn Board & Get Away With It?, Linda, Tommy, Danny, & Brandy Options

[Observer]

Well if you think about it, considering his and the boards potential liability, he really couldn't have answered in any other way. Having engaged "independent" auditors in the past, I wouldn't put much weight on his answer to number 13. If you're paying the "independent" auditor, they see what you want them to see.

-Yogi

Reading about the Board, reminds me of children getting together to play business executive, instead of playing house.

[mozart]

Nice work, Snoopy. I assume everyone knows who those people are:

Walt Thompson - http://www.lawndale.org/ourpeop_pro_wthompson.html
Kenneth A. Denslow - Prez, Il Conf. http://www.illinoisadventist.org/our_staff.html
May Chung - 3abn TV, May Chung (909) ***-****, 155 E Manchester Ln, San Bernardino, CA 92408
Larry Ewing - 3abn Treasurer, Larry Ewing (618) ***-**** 21790 Benton St, Thompsonville, IL 62890
Merlin Fjarli - (Maranatha -India) Medford Oregon builder, http://www.strategypage.com/militaryforums/72-12561.aspx
Bill Hulsey - former mayor, Collegedale, Planning Commission - http://www.collegedaletn.gov/Board/planmembers.html
Ellsworth McKee - Little Debbie snack foods http://www.mckeefoods.com/About_Us/Corporate.htm
Wintley Phipps - vocalist, preacher link (scroll down to page 24)
we don't usually post phone numbers..... post edited...

CALVIN, can we pin this? and thanks folks for getting on this. much appreciated.

Ok, now what did he say? Either I am slow, or he just really didn't say anything. I am sure that he did not answer at least questions 4 & 7, and I am iffy about a few more. If it is just me, somebody giv eit to me in plain english.

sounds like a politician to me.

This post has been edited by mozart: Apr 4 2007, 01:47 PM

[mozart]

I wonder why the Illinois Conference hasn't been more active in investigating all of the problems concerning certain 3ABN administrators and the actions and predjudices of their BoD???

Kenneth A. Denslow
President — Spiritual and administrative leader for the Illinois Conference

Kenneth A. Denslow
Secretary — An organization for Adventist business professionals ( ASI )

Kenneth A. Denslow
Director - 3ABN Board Member

[awesumtenor]

I wonder why the Illinois Conference hasn't been more active in investigating all of the problems concerning certain 3ABN administrators and the actions and predjudices of their BoD???

Kenneth A. Denslow
President — Spiritual and administrative leader for the Illinois Conference

Kenneth A. Denslow
Secretary — An organization for Adventist business professionals ( ASI )

Kenneth A. Denslow
Director - 3ABN Board Member

...and the band played on...

In His service,
Mr. J

[watchbird]

But DUH!.... ..... what did we expect from someone who has been agile enough to stay in Danny Shelton's "good graces" for all this time?

Ya'll made some very astute comments about his letter..... but I was surprised that no one mentioned #11.....

11. Is the 3abn board only there to insulate and rubber stamp the owner's agenda?

ans. YES! The owner of this ministry is Jesus Christ. It is indeed the boards practice to insulate and rubber stamp His agenda! (Note: The administration serve as employees of the ministry.)

It seems pretty obvious to me that the man was ostentatiously avoiding the question... choosing to "answer" it in a manner that showed his disdain of both the question and the questioner rather than giving an answer that at least made sense.... But then... when the only answer that can be given is the one one doesn't want to admit.... I su'pose there isn't much else to do except give a pious patronizing platitude. Sorry..... ..... that doesn't "play well" in my neighborhood.

[mozart]

Ya'll made some very astute comments about his letter..... but I was surprised that no one mentioned #11.....

11. Is the 3abn board only there to insulate and rubber stamp the owner's agenda?

ans. YES! The owner of this ministry is Jesus Christ. It is indeed the boards practice to insulate and rubber stamp His agenda! (Note: The administration serve as employees of the ministry.)

It seems pretty obvious to me that the man was ostentatiously avoiding the question... choosing to "answer" it in a manner that showed his disdain of both the question and the questioner rather than giving an answer that at least made sense....Absolutely! But then... when the only answer that can be given is the one one doesn't want to admit.... I su'pose there isn't much else to do except give a pious patronizing platitude. Sorry..... ..... that doesn't "play well" in my neighborhood.

you nailed it my friend. doesn't play well in mine either. PPP="pious, patroniizing platitudes". 4 of the 5 emails i got from him are like that. the first one said he'd prefer i called him on the phone. my reply was " thank you, but i prefer a written reply. " after that, it was all PPP. he never answered my last email. it was just 7 simple, direct questions. guess he got busy. u think?
as for #11- I noticed that this is when he got really defensive. to whomever wrote this to him; i'd like them to write back and ask him to elaborate on #5 & #6.
[5. What is the responsibility of the Chairman in bringng these matters to the Board if he questions the actions of the President?
ans. All significant issues or whatever nature are brought to the board for discussion - to the executive committee of the board if between regularly board sessions, or by specially called conference calls or in person sessions if indicated. That's lots of options. I wonder which one is used most often. I'd definitely like a more detailed explanation here.
6. Has the Chairman ever brought such matters to the Board?
ans. Regularly!]
i'd like him to answer this: "would you mind sharing with me some examples of this? and what the outcome was?"

This post has been edited by mozart: Apr 5 2007, 10:52 AM

[LaurenceD]

we don't usually post phone numbers..... post edited...

Thanks Clay. I wondered what the policy was here. I didn't know what was easier, to see the number posted here, or to enter the name and location, Google it, and see their ph# already published for the whole world to see.

[LaurenceD]

Some questions were posed recently to Dr. Walt Thompson, Chairman of the Board at 3abn. He has responded knowing that his answers would be posted here at BSDA. The following are all the questions and his unedited (except for formatting changes for easier reading) answers to them.

Wow! You've been busy, nw!

This message from Walt was helpful in some ways, and not in others. How the board is chosen was helpful...#9 & 10.

9. How are board members chosen at 3abn? Elected, appointed? By whom?

ans. When vacancies occur, replacements are sought who cherish the objectives and interests of 3abn, i.e., to take the undiluted Three Angels Messages to the world in preparation for the return of Jesus - To Counter the Counterfeit. Board members and Administrative people are all invited to submit names for consideration. Appointment is made by the full board.

10. If the board members are appointed, or when they are replaced, is that appointment/replacement subject to the approval of the rest of the board?

ans. see above response.

This counters some inside information I'd received -- that DS personally chooses his board members. From the looks of the board, I'd have guessed that all memeber ARE handpicked by DS, not the method Walt describes. I don't doubt Walt's answer is one that has been used. I do doubt that his answer is the full policy--if such a policy actually exists--and has always been used from the start.

But, my favorite one was the evasive answer to #11...corporate protectionism at its best!

11. Is the 3abn board only there to insulate and rubber stamp the owner's agenda?

ans. YES! The owner of this ministry is Jesus Christ. It is indeed the boards practice to insulate and rubber stamp His agenda! (Note: The administration serve as employees of the ministry.)

Normally, if one were to stray from answering a question directly, at least they'd give a little credit to the ones who make the ministry even possible -- the people who donate the funds. But, (sigh) money and power make for a shivering combination sometimes.

[PeacefulBe]

For me, Walt Thompson's responses have raised further questions.

1. Are issues of the Shelton family, such as Tommy Shelton's rehire, ever brought to the board for consideration?

ans. Yes! While the board does not ordinarily get involved in determining who is hired or fired, or what compensation employees receive, the Shelton family is an exception.

If this is truly BoD policy, that it ordinarily doesn't get involved with the hiring or compensation of employees but they make an exception and do get involved in the hiring and compensation of Shelton family members, did the BoD consider the cause of Tommy Shelton's 1991 removal from 3abn as well as the outstanding allegations of pastoral sexual abuse when they hired him back on?

3. Are the Chairman and the Board of Directors ever made aware of personal issues of the 3abn employees, Sheltons and others, that could have an impact on the reputation of the ministry or does that entity deal only with the business side of 3abn?

ans. Yes! There is a close relationship between the administration and the Board of Directors

This appears to me to be an affirmation by WT that the Board of Directors evaluate the potential impact of employee's personal issues. My question would be, did they take personal issues into consideration when they hired William Cochran or rehired Tommy Shelton? Were they actually made aware of Mr. Cochran's conviction for aggravated sexual assault on a minor? Why did they seemingly treat so casually the allegations in the 2003 "Dryden Letter" without serious investigation to confirm whether or not the allegations were true?

I would appreciate further input by the Chairman on these questions. Could that be arranged?

This post has been edited by PeacefullyBewildered: Apr 5 2007, 12:00 PM

[Observer]

But DUH!.... ..... what did we expect from someone who has been agile enough to stay in Danny Shelton's "good graces" for all this time?

Ya'll made some very astute comments about his letter..... but I was surprised that no one mentioned #11.....

11. Is the 3abn board only there to insulate and rubber stamp the owner's agenda?

ans. YES! The owner of this ministry is Jesus Christ. It is indeed the boards practice to insulate and rubber stamp His agenda! (Note: The administration serve as employees of the ministry.)

It seems pretty obvious to me that the man was ostentatiously avoiding the question... choosing to "answer" it in a manner that showed his disdain of both the question and the questioner rather than giving an answer that at least made sense.... But then... when the only answer that can be given is the one one doesn't want to admit.... I su'pose there isn't much else to do except give a pious patronizing platitude. Sorry..... ..... that doesn't "play well" in my neighborhood.

There is another posibility. That possibility might be that they actually believe that JC is actively governing the actions of the Board and/or 3-ABN, and that governance is being accomplished without interference from falible human beings. If that is the actual belief, then some other issues come into play, and our approach to 3-ABN may need to change.

[PeacefulBe]

There is another posibility. That possibility might be that they actually believe that JC is actively governing the actions of the Board and/or 3-ABN, and that governance is being accomplished without interference from falible human beings. If that is the actual belief, then some other issues come into play, and our approach to 3-ABN may need to change.

Gregory,
Interesting thoughts. What other issues do you have in mind? How would it change our approach? Can you unpack this a bit more?

[lurker]

There is another posibility. That possibility might be that they actually believe that JC is actively governing the actions of the Board and/or 3-ABN, and that governance is being accomplished without interference from falible human beings. If that is the actual belief, then some other issues come into play, and our approach to 3-ABN may need to change.

Where is the Urim and Thummin? Does the leader meet the tests of a prophet? If no, then it is being led by the feelings of a mere human. And when this leader and others are encouraged to believe that his every notion and impulse is inspired....

[awesumtenor]

There is another posibility. That possibility might be that they actually believe that JC is actively governing the actions of the Board and/or 3-ABN, and that governance is being accomplished without interference from falible human beings. If that is the actual belief, then some other issues come into play, and our approach to 3-ABN may need to change.

Even if one concedes that Jesus is, in fact the "owner", IMO the stewards in whose hands he has placed it have not been as faithful as they ought:

Mat 21:33-40 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country: (34) And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it. (35) And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another. (36) Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise. (37) But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son. (38) But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance. (39) And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him. (40) When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen? (41) They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons. (42) Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the Scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvelous in our eyes? (43) Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. (44) And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.


He who hath ears, let him hear...

In His service,
Mr. J

This post has been edited by awesumtenor: Apr 6 2007, 07:28 AM

[LaurenceD]

Even if one concedes that Jesus is, in fact the "owner", IMO the stewards in whose hands he has placed it have not been as faithful as they ought:

(snip)

He who hath ears, let him hear...

Ouch! (good post, awesum)

Can it really be that difficult to figure out what Jesus would do if he were in charge? It would be interesting to make a list of what Christ did, or taught, as opposed to what this other ministry is doing...

Christ encouraging obedience to God -- and to the laws of the land (3abn vs. State of Illinios)
giving, receiving - didn't Judge Rowe say 3abn has not acted as a charitable orgaization, even thought it was able?
how to deal with a woman caught in (actual) adultery...
Mat 18:15-19 dealing with someone who "sins" (sin may not be everything you or the church finds offensive)
how to deal with money changers in the temple (the Lord's system), and the possible misuse of funds

(edited for typos)

This post has been edited by LaurenceD: Apr 6 2007, 08:41 AM

[Clay]

People who treat other people as less than human must not be surprised when the bread they have cast on the waters comes floating back to them, poisoned.

James A. Baldwin