Can One Defy The 3abn Board & Get Away With It?, Linda, Tommy, Danny, & Brandy Options

[sonshineonme]

you are hysterical. take a pepto. i have heard from walt; about half a dozen times in fact. that is how i can make the comments i have made here and why i have basis for my opinions and i can state those opinions until the U.S.A. changes the constitution!!!
btw a judge might not appreciate me looking down my nose at him. that surely would get one into trouble.
any body have a clue they can loan ms. lee?

OHHH MO!!!!! I was thinking the same thing!!!!!
Anyone who sits higher then the judge must really think himself as the number one authority on everything!!!

This post has been edited by sonshineonme: Apr 3 2007, 09:52 PM

[mozart]

And you, Mr. Mozart, are hilarious!!!..."take a pepto"..... hahaha...

Sorry...the clue truck went by here about 6pm...

whew...glad i bought a month's supply last week. i'd share some with ms.lee but i'm afraid she would'nt know how to use it without instructions. so........soz ms.lee

[lookin4truth]

This may be a little , but since the 990s were posted, and other comments about the inventory, etc., have been touched on in this thread, I don't think it is WAY of topic.

I don't know what PERKS Danny or others at 3ABN have access to, except what I have read about, and I know there have been a lot of questions raised about morals, ethics, and business practices, I just thought I would post MY opinion about something. I capitalized the word MY intentionally. I don't expect everyone to agree with me.

It does not seem unreasonable to me for the C0-Founder/CEO of a world wide ministry to make approximately $71,000 a year. I must admit, when I first started reading the boards, I expected to find that Danny was making MILLIONS.

I wouldn't even have a problem with the ministry using the plane, if it could be shown that the benefits to the ministry outweigh the extra expense.

A friend of mine sent me the URL for a website that discusses how many Televangelists live.

http://www.inplainsite.org/html/tele-evang...les.html#JMCars

Make sure to scroll all the way down on the site to see how Joyce Meyer lives. The information about Kenneth Copeland's air force is interesting also.

There may be a lot of things that have to be investigated, but there are a whole lot of SDAs that make a whole lot more money, and probably don't have as much responsibility.

If Danny and the board would be open concerning the finances of the ministry, and could justify the expenses, I think many people would not be so critical.

Excuse me while I put on my body armor.

I suggest you be more careful for what you say or you will find yourself looking down your nose at a Judge.

Lee,

I am still waiting for an answer to my questions also.

L4T

[Pickle]

Problem is, we don't know for sure how much Danny is really making off of 3ABN. The 990's can say one thing, but there are ways to make more from 3ABN than what they say.

[Noahswife]

I don't expect everyone to agree with me.

It does not seem unreasonable to me for the C0-Founder/CEO of a world wide ministry to make approximately $71,000 a year. I must admit, when I first started reading the boards, I expected to find that Danny was making MILLIONS.

I wouldn't even have a problem with the ministry using the plane, if it could be shown that the benefits to the ministry outweigh the extra expense.

If Danny and the board would be open concerning the finances of the ministry, and could justify the expenses, I think many people would not be so critical.

Excuse me while I put on my body armor.

L4T,

If you need armor for stating this then so will I. I agree with everything stated in your post even as to the plane being justified under the right circumstances. I have traveled in the past for business and it is exhausting.

However, I suspect we may yet hear more about this issue in the future and that is why Danny and the Board have not been more open.

This post has been edited by Noahswife: Apr 3 2007, 10:43 PM

[Rosyroi]

Thanks for the laughs folks!!!

oh my stomach... hurts from laughing so much. You are hilarious!!



Rosyroi

This post has been edited by Rosyroi: Apr 3 2007, 10:25 PM

[awesumtenor]

It does not seem unreasonable to me for the C0-Founder/CEO of a world wide ministry to make approximately $71,000 a year. I must admit, when I first started reading the boards, I expected to find that Danny was making MILLIONS.

What one makes on paper is not necessarily what one has... when the government charged Al Capone with income tax evasion, Capone's argument was that he was unemployed and therefore owed no tax. His wealth was largely in cash from illegal operations... bootlegging, gampling, prostitution and the like and ownership of his non-cash assets was distributed among family members and a number of dummy corporations but by the letter of the law... up to the point where he was convicted, he legally owned little or nothing. Through the creation of living trusts and other tax shelters one can possess great wealth in fact while owning none of it in law.

In His service,
Mr. J

This post has been edited by awesumtenor: Apr 3 2007, 10:42 PM

[princessdi]

Count me in, too L4T. I have stated this before, Adventist really have a problem with leaders/pastors making anything more than a modest salary. Now the members can make as much as their education and God blesses them to make, but the pastor had better not have too many perks, and defintiely not appear to be living large. Infact in one thread here some voiced issues with the pastor even having a table at the potluck or a special parking space. I personally don't thinkit is too much to ask fo those who have made the front line this Battletheir life's work.

But I also think that the case of the independent ministry is different. These people more than likely started out putiing every available and not so available dollar of their own into their ministries. I really don't have a problem with them living well. I have always said that Danny's salary even at the reported 71k is modest for 20 years of buidling a ministry. Whatever we think of his ungly ways, he really did accomplish with God's help, sometime, inspite of himself.

It is not as if there is not precendent for God's people to live well and properous in the Bible. Plus when God was running things withth COI he paid the priests well, a tenth of the increase 11 tribes aint' chump change. But I just believe if these people are really living for God and have sacrificed and worked to make ministry their life and God is blessing them for it, the so be it. ia in't mad at them for having some perks along with the horrific schedules they keep. I think their salaries grew with their ministries, witht he boards voting them more salariy as the ministries could afford it. Some of them started with taking little or no money at all and still working some kind job. I also think that most Adventist are unfamiliar with how things work outside of our own system.

Now all that I just said does not negate the fact that I think they should be held accountable, if they are lving large, and dong little or no minsitry. However, they also are accountable to the IRS for filing as a ministry.

L4T,

If you need armor for stating this than so will I. I agree with everything stated in your post even as to the plane being justified under the right circumstances. I have traveled in the past for business and it is exhausting.

However, I suspect we may yet hear more about this issue in the future and that is why Danny and the Board have not been more open.

[lookin4truth]

What one makes on paper is not necessarily what one has... when the government charged Al Capone with income tax evasion, Capone's argument was that he was unemployed and therefore owed no tax. His assets where distributed among family members and a number of dummy corporations but by the letter of the law... so up to the point where he was convicted, he legally owned little or nothing. Through the creation of living trusts and other tax shelters one can possess great wealth in fact while owning none of it in law.

In His service,
Mr. J

Mr. J,

You are correct. That's why is is so important for Danny and the board to open up, and remove any doubt.

I genuinely hope there is nothing to hide.

L4T

[Seraphim7]

Quick notes from the peanut gallery ...

...I've been away for a few weeks due to moving, so it was interesting to come back here and read some of the threads in one fell swoop.

I note with interest how nice we all can be when it comes to teaching someone how to post a picture. Would that the same courtesy be extended to everyone at all times, even if we don't agree on what's going on at 3ABN.

Here's a question for those reading this thread ... what's this situation doing to your Christian experience?

Simple e put, it is not "doing" anything to my "Christian experience. To see how Sis. Shelton and the victims of molestation have been treat from start to finish should, IMO, sadden anyone. Yet, my walk with Christ Jesus is not hendered due to the foolishness of others, nor will it be as long as I remember that "My hope is built on nothing less than Jesus blood and righteousness".

... while I definitely missed the fellowship at BSDA, it was good for me not to be reading about 3ABN. My homepage is set to the theology threads, but I seriously lack self-restraint these days ... here I am, posting in the 3ABN threads ...

As with anything else, each persons millage may vary but for me, I can go days without so much as opening the 3ABN threads. Doing so may be a struggle for some, but the reality is 3ABN doesn't make, nor will it break BSDA. BLACK SDA was here and, will be here long after 3ABN, and those who support its leadershp, goes the way of the "dodo"

And for those who don't know what a "dodo" is please read below:

Ice Age (2002) - Memorable quotes
Dodo #1: Prepare for the Ice Age. Dodo #2: Protect the dodo way of life. Dodo #3: Survival separates the dodos from the beasts. ...

Wikipedia: ... The dodo is commonly used as an example of extinction, due to its extinction occurring during recorded human history, and being directly attributable to human activity. The common turn of phrase as dead as a dodo refers to the dodo's extinct status.

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[mozart]

This may be a little , but since the 990s were posted, and other comments about the inventory, etc., have been touched on in this thread, I don't think it is WAY of topic.

I don't know what PERKS Danny or others at 3ABN have access to, except what I have read about, and I know there have been a lot of questions raised about morals, ethics, and business practices, I just thought I would post MY opinion about something. I capitalized the word MY intentionally. I don't expect everyone to agree with me.

It does not seem unreasonable to me for the C0-Founder/CEO of a world wide ministry to make approximately $71,000 a year. I must admit, when I first started reading the boards, I expected to find that Danny was making MILLIONS.

I wouldn't even have a problem with the ministry using the plane, if it could be shown that the benefits to the ministry outweigh the extra expense.

Lee,

I am still waiting for an answer to my questions also.

L4T

L4T, I agree with you as well. If things are as stated, DS is definitely not over compensated. Through his and linda's hard work at 3abn, i have been truly blessed. that goes without question.
however, if the plane or anything else is used for personal reasons with donations meant for the ministry, i do take issue, big time with that. for instance, i read that DS used the plane to pay a personal visit to Dr. Paulsen (sp). apparently DS wanted to talk to Dr. P about the situation for the purpose of getting his endorsement and Dr. Paulsen wouldn't even see him. if that report is true, DS should have used his own money to pay for that. if he used 3abn money, then i would consider that wrong and reckless. i also believe he should have made an appointment before "just dropping" in on someone like that but that's another issue. now that is just what i read, so i don't know if it's true or not but it is a good example of what i would not agree with. as for his salary, as reported and his home as it appears (boat, horses, etc.) it does not seem at all excessive to me. i think he's earned it.
all things in these matters have to be open and above board however. we should not have trust issues when it comes to doner monies. whatever ppl want to criticize about what someone does with money they've earned is their problem. you don't have to be poor to be a good Christian. you shouldn't be indulgent and lavish yourself with perks either and you shouldn't ever misappropriate donations. that is the height of sin. IMO, these are things that we should have complete and open access to. if you want me to trust you, show me your records.
just an aside: i sent 3abn $1000. a few years back to purchase equipment for a cable station in India. I've inquired numerous times to try to find out if that ever happened. i got a couple of different stories on the telephone. seems there were some problems in actually getting things done. i was told the money was put in a special savings account while things were being worked out. i was at 3abn about a year later and asked DS myself. i told him what i had been told and he quickly brushed it aside and said, "no, there is no problem. the money was used for a cable station; you don't need to worry about that." in the back of my mind i wasn't satisfied with the answer he gave but because he was really busy, at the time, i accepted it and went on my way. i've always wondered about that tho'. now that i look back on it i wonder why we feel bad questioning ppl in ministry about these things. we shouldn't. it was our donation. it's God's money and there's no reason why we shouldn't make sure that ppl are doing what they are suppose to. no one should be offended about that. it should be an open book.

[LaurenceD]

Board member names and address are included in the IRS Form 990 and are public information. Here's the "List of Officers, Directorsfrom the 2005 filing:

Nice work, Snoopy. I assume everyone knows who those people are:

Walt Thompson - http://www.lawndale.org/ourpeop_pro_wthompson.html
Kenneth A. Denslow - Prez, Il Conf. http://www.illinoisadventist.org/our_staff.html
May Chung - 3abn TV, May Chung (909) ***-****, 155 E Manchester Ln, San Bernardino, CA 92408
Larry Ewing - 3abn Treasurer, Larry Ewing (618) ***-**** 21790 Benton St, Thompsonville, IL 62890
Merlin Fjarli - (Maranatha -India) Medford Oregon builder, http://www.strategypage.com/militaryforums/72-12561.aspx
Bill Hulsey - former mayor, Collegedale, Planning Commission - http://www.collegedaletn.gov/Board/planmembers.html
Ellsworth McKee - Little Debbie snack foods http://www.mckeefoods.com/About_Us/Corporate.htm
Wintley Phipps - vocalist, preacher link (scroll down to page 24)


we don't usually post phone numbers..... post edited...

This post has been edited by Clay: Apr 4 2007, 08:08 AM

[Noahswife]

Some questions were posed recently to Dr. Walt Thompson, Chairman of the Board at 3abn. He has responded knowing that his answers would be posted here at BSDA. The following are all the questions and his unedited (except for formatting changes for easier reading) answers to them.

1. Are issues of the Shelton family, such as Tommy Shelton's rehire, ever brought to the board for consideration?

ans. Yes! While the board does not ordinarily get involved in determining who is hired or fired, or what compensation employees receive, the Shelton family is an exception.

2. If not, why has the Chairman of the Board not done so where their choices would have a possible affect on the public image of 3abn and its ministry?

ans. NA in view of answer to no. 1. - Note: 3abn is pleased to operate by principle, not necessilarly by public image.

3. Are the Chairman and the Board of Directors ever made aware of personal issues of the 3abn employees, Sheltons and others, that could have an impact on the reputation of the ministry or does that entity deal only with the business side of 3abn?

ans. Yes! There is a close relationship between the administration and the Board of Directors.

4. What is the Board's fiduciary duty at 3abn, a not for profit business?

ans. It is the responsibility of the Board to be certain that the minstry is true to its objectives as outlined in its Charter and its bylaws and rules and regulation - all of which are governed by the state.

5. What is the responsibility of the Chairman in bringng these matters to the Board if he questions the actions of the President?

ans. All significant issues or whatever nature are brought to the board for discussion - to the executive committee of the board if between regularly board sessions, or by specially called conference calls or in person sessions if indicated.

6. Has the Chairman ever brought such matters to the Board?

ans. Regularly!

7. Can any Board member invite someone to speak before the full board or could they be blocked by the Chairman?

ans. The Chairman serves at the request of the board and represents the interests of the board. Should any member of the board wish to bring a matter to the board for discussion it would be the decision of the members of the board whether or not to hear the matter. It is anticipated that any such request would be submitted in writing along with adequate explanation such that the board could make an informed decision regarding the request.

8. What are the powers of the individual board members? Does it take the usual two members to get an item on the agenda or is the 3abn operate differently?

ans. All members of the board have equal opportunity and authority. All act according to the wishes of the whole.

9. How are board members chosen at 3abn? Elected, appointed? By whom?

ans. When vacancies occur, replacements are sought who cherish the objectives and interests of 3abn, i.e., to take the undiluted Three Angels Messages to the world in preparation for the return of Jesus - To Counter the Counterfeit. Board members and Administrative people are all invited to submit names for consideration. Appointment is made by the full board.

10. If the board members are appointed, or when they are replaced, is that appointment/replacement subject to the approval of the rest of the board?

ans. see above response.

11. Is the 3abn board only there to insulate and rubber stamp the owner's agenda?

ans. YES! The owner of this ministry is Jesus Christ. It is indeed the boards practice to insulate and rubber stamp His agenda! (Note: The administration serve as employees of the ministry.)

12. Since a number of board members have openly discussed this in the past, is it true that the BoD is not in the practice of micro-managing the day to day operations of 3abn?

ans. Yes! It is the boards responsibility to hire administrators to manage the operations of the ministry, to give them parameters by which to function, and then to give them elbo room to do their job.

13. In a letter about an unrelated matter received from a board member by one BSDA member, it was plainly stated that "the discussion of the board was after decisions had already been made by management and that there was "no decision taken by the board that would change any decision already taken by management." Is this a correct characterization of the 3abn Board of Directors?

ans. NO! Fortunately, all through the years the 3abn board has had an excellent working relationship with the adiminstration. This fact is evident by the way God has been able to bless this ministry. As with all well run organizations, agenta items brought before the board have often been well researched and studied before the proposed item is brought to the board for discussion and action.

As you can see by these answers, 3abn is not a fly-by-night organization without checks and balances. It was started from scratch, and we have learned as we have gone along. Throughout the years we have had regular independent financial audits, and over and over again, the auditors have expressed their amazement at what this ministry has accomplished with the resources at its disposal. From the beginning we have operated by faith, stepping out when "called" to do so. This has sometimes been difficult for finance people to understand, but God has been faithful in honoring our faith.

I hope this proves helpful.

Walt
Walter Thompson MD

This post has been edited by Noahswife: Apr 4 2007, 01:03 PM

[princessdi]

Ok, now what did he say? Either I am slow, or he just really didn't say anything. I am sure that he did not answer at least questions 4 & 7, and I am iffy about a few more. If it is just me, somebody giv eit to me in plain english.

[YogusBearus]

Ok either I am slow, or he just really didn't say anything. I am sure that he did not answer at least questions 4 & 7, and I am iffy about a few more. If it is just me, somebody giv eit to me in plain english.

Well if you think about it, considering his and the boards potential liability, he really couldn't have answered in any other way. Having engaged "independent" auditors in the past, I wouldn't put much weight on his answer to number 13. If you're paying the "independent" auditor, they see what you want them to see.

-Yogi